Covid-19

[RingoMcCartney]

The begrudging brigade is here!

Looks like the King's Own Never Going To Be Good Enough Light Infantry to me!

[Holtyclaret]

From a standing start our progress overall I think has been very good and a huge effort. The very fact hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed is amazing.

There may be further waves, nobody knows but we will have so much more in place as and when required. Nightingale hospital capacity (there if required) PPE (will start stockpiling again once unprecedented demand for it subsides), testing capacity much increased from practically zero a month ago, acceleration on vaccine (with capability to mass manufacture), better drilled health/care workers, excess ventilators coming in from mclaren and elsewhere, better understanding of the disease increasing daily including now knowing the effects of a lockdown, a ‘new found’ respect for the nhs, it’s workers and care workers, the government’s apparent acknowledgment that austerity isn’t the way forward, the hindsight that future pandemics will now be treated more seriously etc etc ......

So many positives and reassurances going forward, In a very short timeframe that we as a country can now deal with this crisis and future ones. We’ve certainly come a long way thankfully and we’re still only partway through wave one.

Could some things have been done better, absolutely. It’s a real shame that we’ve had to go through a real crisis to become prepared rather than acting on the test exercise a few years ago but again it’s another lesson learnt. Despite the awfully sad death figures, it’s an awful disease, I do feel many many more lives will be subsequently saved in future outbreaks/waves/ new diseases because of the overall response to covid.

[Paul Waine]

Military appalled by planning fiasco over NHS protective kit

Lucy Fisher, Defence Editor | Billy Kenber, Investigations Reporter | Kat Lay, Health Correspondent
Wednesday April 22 2020, 9.01am, The Times

Military personnel have criticised the NHS for its “appalling” handling of distributing personal protective equipment. The armed forces are helping with the distribution of equipment and staff have been seconded to help planning across seven hubs.

A senior army source lambasted the health service for its logistics for PPE, alleging that masks, aprons, gloves and other items were being assigned to hospitals without regard to relative need, leading to oversupply in some areas and shortages in others.

“We know how knackered their [NHS logistics] systems are, but we’ve been surprised we’ve not been called in to help more, and we’ve been surprised by their failure to ration [kit],” the insider said. Hospitals are encouraged to share stocks of PPE with local trusts who are running short.

An RAF plane carrying a delayed consignment of PPE for the NHS arrived from Turkey this morning but it is not known if it includes surgical gowns. The government came under criticism after stating that the consignment would arrive by the end of last week.

Rishi Sunak, the chancellor, said: “We’re improving our sourcing internationally and domestically to make sure we can get the PPE we need in what is a very challenging international context. But people on the front line can rest assured that we’re doing absolutely everything we can and straining everything we can to get the equipment they need.”

It is understood that commanders are frustrated that the Covid Support Force has not been called in to lead on the allocation of PPE, given that planning and logistics are military specialisms.

Separately, the government was accused of losing a month in the fight against the virus after failing to respond to manufacturers’ efforts to make medical gowns in Britain. The shortage of gowns has become the most pressing PPE problem, with the health service getting through 450,000 every day.

Adam Mansell, head of the UK Fashion and Textile Association, said that conversations between government officials and large manufacturers about making medical gowns had taken place only in the past fortnight. “We have started probably four weeks later than we should have,” he added.

Only one British company, the Scottish firm Don & Low, makes the fluid-resistant material needed for the gowns. The government has placed an order for its full capacity, 7.4 million metres, by the end of next month, which should be enough for 3.5 million gowns. However, Mr Mansell said it would take the Scottish mill three to four weeks to get up to full production.

Last night the owners of British companies said the government had missed opportunities to secure at least 16 million facemasks in the past month.
Volker Schuster, from Merseyside chemicals firm Ecologix, told The Guardian that he had offered to supply ten million masks. However, by the time he received a reply, they had already been sold to other countries.

Landcent, the infectious disease specialists, said it could have supplied six million masks if the government had placed an order when it first submitted an offer at the end of March.

The government has been inundated with offers to help to make or supply gowns, gloves, masks and visors, but many companies complained that they had not heard back for weeks.

The Cabinet Office has had to allocate more staff to deal with offers of help. Matt Hancock, the health secretary, said 8,331 companies had offered PPE but that checks were needed. A total of 159 potential manufacturers had been identified.

Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, which represents hospitals and trusts in England, said gowns and visors were the most needed items. He said this was because “the reserve was configured for a winter flu as opposed to coronavirus type pandemic”.

He added: “There was meant to be an order of 200,000 gowns from China last week and only 20,000 arrived.”

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: “The MoD understands just how challenging logistics can be, especially under current pressures. Of course there may be frictions at a local level, but those same armed forces are doing everything possible to support their health colleagues. The MoD has full confidence in the NHS.”

[RingoMcCartney]

From a standing start our progress overall I think has been very good and a huge effort. The very fact hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed is amazing.

There may be further waves, nobody knows but we will have so much more in place as and when required. Nightingale hospital capacity (there if required) PPE (will start stockpiling again once unprecedented demand for it subsides), testing capacity much increased from practically zero a month ago, acceleration on vaccine (with capability to mass manufacture), better drilled health/care workers, excess ventilators coming in from mclaren and elsewhere, better understanding of the disease increasing daily including now knowing the effects of a lockdown, a ‘new found’ respect for the nhs, it’s workers and care workers, the government’s apparent acknowledgment that austerity isn’t the way forward, the hindsight that future pandemics will now be treated more seriously etc etc ......

So many positives and reassurances going forward, In a very short timeframe that we as a country can now deal with this crisis and future ones. We’ve certainly come a long way thankfully and we’re still only partway through wave one.

Could some things have been done better, absolutely. It’s a real shame that we’ve had to go through a real crisis to become prepared rather than acting on the test exercise a few years ago but again it’s another lesson learnt. Despite the awfully sad death figures, it’s an awful disease, I do feel many many more lives will be subsequently saved in future outbreaks/waves/ new diseases because of the overall response to covid.

Agree with all of that.

I'd also like to think that this horrendous crisis will lead to a full, permanent and far reaching reassessing of the the UK'S and the rest of the world's relationship. With that brutal, lying, murderous and tyrannical communist dictatorship, otherwise known as China.

When all this is over, they have some serious answers and , possibly justifiable , reparations to come up with.

[Holtyclaret]

We’ll see about that and I’m sure they’ll be held to account in the fullness of time. In their favour though is an unsung (through guilt?) sharing of their ppe, doctors and learnt knowledge with us has been invaluable to date.

[Spijed]

Agree with all of that.

I'd also like to think that this horrendous crisis will lead to a full, permanent and far reaching reassessing of the the UK'S and the rest of the world's relationship. With that brutal, lying, murderous and tyrannical communist dictatorship, otherwise known as China.

When all this is over, they have some serious answers and , possibly justifiable , reparations to come up with.

And who is going to stand up to China?

[ksrclaret]

And who is going to stand up to China?

Wrongo. Armed with a bottle of whiskey, his Enoch Powell biography and a condom over his head.

Charge!

[FactualFrank]

I really don't understand how this pandemic has got so out of hand.

You'd have thought with all the prayers, homeopathic remedies, reiki, special diets, healing crystals, and social media shares, that we'd have had this sorted by now.

[jrgbfc]

Maybe we should start looking at the failure of our own government before we point the finger at China?

[RingoMcCartney]

Maybe we should start looking at the failure of our own government before we point the finger at China?

You think it's better to indulge in a communal navel gazing exercise as to how our own government, that is slap bang in the middle, of handling an unprecedented global pandemic. Rather than saying that when all this is over, those responsible for causing the bloody thing in the first place, while lying and attempting to cover its existence up , should be held to account!!!

It's one approach I guess.

[RingoMcCartney]

Wrongo. Armed with a bottle of whiskey, his Enoch Powell biography and a condom over his head.

Charge!

True to form ksr claret makes no attempt what so ever to either counter or agree to a discussion point. No. Just a full on studs showing, playing the man not the ball chalkenge , Kevin Ball Styleee!

Stick to what you have some success in. Uploading pictures of rats. You're good at that! Keep Showing Rats Claret!

[ksrclaret]

True to form ksr claret makes no attempt what so ever to either counter or agree to a discussion point. No. Just a full on studs showing, playing the man not the ball chalkenge , Kevin Ball Styleee!

Stick to what you have some success in. Uploading pictures of rats. You're good at that! Keep Showing Rats Claret!

Raw nerve touched, me thinks.

[evensteadiereddie]

WHO, NHS managers, pandemic experts and now China..................our government's supporters are rattled.

[AndrewJB]

Maybe we should start looking at the failure of our own government before we point the finger at China?

We’re not allowed to do that until decades have passed and we can look back with perfect hindsight. That the same people are so quick to blame another country is just another expression of hypocrisy borne out of right wing news sources.

[RingoMcCartney]

me thinks.

Contradiction in terms!

[evensteadiereddie]

You can imagine punters like Wrongo swallowing Cummings' crap when all this is over...."It's all water under the bridge now, what's done is done.
There's no point in muck-raking, let's make Britain great again."


Or, as Basil would say, , "Don't mention the virus."

[ksrclaret]

Contradiction in terms!

Oh don’t be like that, Wrongo. I was only messing with you. Sorry if I upset you.

Can we still be mates?

[joey13]

From a standing start our progress overall I think has been very good and a huge effort. The very fact hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed is amazing.

There may be further waves, nobody knows but we will have so much more in place as and when required. Nightingale hospital capacity (there if required) PPE (will start stockpiling again once unprecedented demand for it subsides), testing capacity much increased from practically zero a month ago, acceleration on vaccine (with capability to mass manufacture), better drilled health/care workers, excess ventilators coming in from mclaren and elsewhere, better understanding of the disease increasing daily including now knowing the effects of a lockdown, a ‘new found’ respect for the nhs, it’s workers and care workers, the government’s apparent acknowledgment that austerity isn’t the way forward, the hindsight that future pandemics will now be treated more seriously etc etc ......

So many positives and reassurances going forward, In a very short timeframe that we as a country can now deal with this crisis and future ones. We’ve certainly come a long way thankfully and we’re still only partway through wave one.

Could some things have been done better, absolutely. It’s a real shame that we’ve had to go through a real crisis to become prepared rather than acting on the test exercise a few years ago but again it’s another lesson learnt. Despite the awfully sad death figures, it’s an awful disease, I do feel many many more lives will be subsequently saved in future outbreaks/waves/ new diseases because of the overall response to covid.

And why do you think hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed, old people on end of life care have been transferred to care homes , routine necessary procedures have been cancelled

[RingoMcCartney]

We’re not allowed to do that until decades have passed and we can look back with perfect hindsight. That the same people are so quick to blame another country is just another expression of hypocrisy borne out of right wing news sources.

What's the matter Andrew. Does the fact that the whole world and his dog knows that the blame for this global pandemic lays fairly and squarely at the door of your communist brothers in China!?

Anyway, I'll save us both the bother shall I

Daily Express! Far right media ! Etc etc

There, saved hours that both of us would never get back!

Keep smiling pal

[RingoMcCartney]

Oh don’t be like that, Wrongo. I was only messing with you. Sorry if I upset you.

Can we still be mates?

1, You're confusing two entirely different things, me being "upset" and me pitying you.

2, You're not my type.

[ksrclaret]

1, You're confusing two entirely different things, me being "upset" and me pitying you.

2, You're not my type.

Okay, I’ll take that as a maybe Wrongo.

[RingoMcCartney]

Why is there never a "yawning" emoji when you really could use one for attention craving rat obsessives?

[ksrclaret]

Why is there never a "yawning" emoji when you really could use one for attention craving rat obsessives?

Thought I wasn’t your type

[martin_p]

Why is there never a "yawning" emoji when you really could use one for attention craving rat obsessives?

I think we’ve all been thinking the same since you started posting on this board Wrongo!

[Holtyclaret]

And why do you think hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed, old people on end of life care have been transferred to care homes , routine necessary procedures have been cancelled

They haven’t been overwhelmed because of the reorganisation of the system to provide the expected required capacity to deal best with the global pandemic. Absolute no-brainer to postpone, not cancel routine procedures that can be put off whilst in the middle of a national emergency. Necessary procedures are largely ongoing.

[RingoMcCartney]

I think we’ve all been thinking the same since you started posting on this board Wrongo!

Good effort !

You'll probably get lots of "likes" for that from all those that have found themselves on the losing side of discussions with me. Could well prove a very popular post that Martin! Pity you cant "like" your own posts , you could be the first one on!



(Edit - as I typed look who was the first to "like!" Mystic McCartney strikes again!!)

[FactualFrank]

Study finds no benefit, higher death rate in patients taking hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19.

Coronavirus patients taking hydroxychloroquine, a treatment touted by President Trump, were no less likely to need mechanical ventilation and had higher deaths rates compared to those who did not take the drug, according to a study of hundreds of patients at US Veterans Health Administration medical centers.

In the study of 368 patients, 97 patients who took hydroxychloroquine had a 27.8% death rate. The 158 patients who did not take the drug had an 11.4% death rate.

"An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone. These findings highlight the importance of awaiting the results of ongoing prospective, randomized, controlled studies before widespread adoption of these drugs," wrote the authors, who work at the Columbia VA Health Care System in South Carolina, the University of South Carolina and the University of Virginia.

Hydroxychloroquine has been used for decades to treat patients with diseases such as malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. Trump has touted the drug as a "game changer" for Covid-19 and said hydroxychloroquine shows "tremendous promise."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/21/heal ... yUb9Bm0BEQ

[AndrewJB]

What's the matter Andrew. Does the fact that the whole world and his dog knows that the blame for this global pandemic lays fairly and squarely at the door of your communist brothers in China!?

Anyway, I'll save us both the bother shall I

Daily Express! Far right media ! Etc etc

There, saved hours that both of us would never get back!

Keep smiling pal

I’m laughing at your double standards - so patently on display. China is to blame (not China, but the communist people in China!), and the “whole world knows this”? There is a wide world out there, beyond the pages of the Sun, that doesn’t conform to how the Sun describes the world. But at the same time our government’s inaction, which has led to us being scandalously I’ll-prepared and needless deaths must not be criticised, “because we don’t have all the information yet.”?

Just to be clear, I’m not claiming you read the Sun, but your positions on major issues of the day bear a remarkable similarity.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I’m laughing at your double standards - so patently on display. China is to blame (not China, but the communist people in China!), and the “whole world knows this”? There is a wide world out there, beyond the pages of the Sun, that doesn’t conform to how the Sun describes the world. But at the same time our government’s inaction, which has led to us being scandalously I’ll-prepared and needless deaths must not be criticised, “because we don’t have all the information yet.”?

Just to be clear, I’m not claiming you read the Sun, but your positions on major issues of the day bear a remarkable similarity.

You seem to have a very in depth knowledge of what is in the Sun.. for a non reader that is

[joey13]

They haven’t been overwhelmed because of the reorganisation of the system to provide the expected required capacity to deal best with the global pandemic. Absolute no-brainer to postpone, not cancel routine procedures that can be put off whilst in the middle of a national emergency. Necessary procedures are largely ongoing.

Necessary procedures aren’t going ahead where I am , as Iam waited for one , and elderly patients have been moved into care homes taking Covid into said homes ,post what you want, both my points are fact

[tiger76]

And why do you think hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed, old people on end of life care have been transferred to care homes , routine necessary procedures have been cancelled

There's a lot of truth in what you state,and this policy is likely leading to the explosion in care home deaths,a couple of brief snippets from the British Geriatrics Society.

Care homes should work with General Practitioners, community healthcare staff and community geriatricians to review Advance Care Plans as a matter of urgency with care home residents. This should include discussions about how COVID-19 may cause residents to become critically unwell, and a clear decision about whether hospital admission would be considered in this circumstance.

Care homes should be aware that escalation decisions to hospital will be taken in discussion with paramedics, general practitioners and other healthcare support staff. They should be aware that transfer to hospital may not be offered if it is not likely to benefit the resident and if palliative or conservative care within the home is deemed more appropriate. Care Homes should work with healthcare providers to support families and residents through this.

And this one really made me sit up,why on earth would you return a covid-19 positive patient to a care home,and how on earth are they supposed to be isolated.

Care homes should remain open to new admissions as much as possible throughout the pandemic. They should be prepared to receive back care home residents who are COVID-19 positive and to isolate them on return, as part of efforts to ensure capacity for new COVID-19 cases in acute hospitals. They should follow the advice from Public Health England when accepting residents without COVID-19 back when there are confirmed COVID-19 cases within a home.

A link to the Telegraph 15 April https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... vernment/

And even the Mail is piling in https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... irus.html

[AndrewJB]

You seem to have a very in depth knowledge of what is in the Sun.. for a non reader that is

It’s hilarious that when an editor of the Sun asks a question at the Downing St press conference about “disinformation coming from China” (not about the pandemic as is relevant to people here, or one that holds the government to account), and the next day Ringo rants about China.

https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... n.html?m=1

[joey13]

A couple of weeks before lockdown in Jersey a group of care workers went on a trip to Lombardy ,since their return 9 people have died in that care home ,how sad

[Bordeauxclaret]

It’s hilarious that when an editor of the Sun asks a question at the Downing St press conference about “disinformation coming from China” (not about the pandemic as is relevant to people here, or one that holds the government to account), and the next day Ringo rants about China.

https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... n.html?m=1

Why is Dan Wootton asking questions to the government?
I thought his job was based on threatening some of these celebrities?

[ksrclaret]

It’s hilarious that when an editor of the Sun asks a question at the Downing St press conference about “disinformation coming from China” (not about the pandemic as is relevant to people here, or one that holds the government to account), and the next day Ringo rants about China.

https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... n.html?m=1

I fear you are wasting your breath. The hypocrisy that’s existed throughout all this has been truly cringeworthy. Remember when we were all told not to use this crisis to make political points?

Best just to take the p1ss now.

[RingoMcCartney]

It’s hilarious that when an editor of the Sun asks a question at the Downing St press conference about “disinformation coming from China” (not about the pandemic as is relevant to people here, or one that holds the government to account), and the next day Ringo rants about China.

https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... n.html?m=1

My god! Welcome to Paranoia Central! Can I remind you of something you've said not a minute or two ago Andrew-

There is a wide world out there, beyond the pages of the Sun,

I know there is, and I think, given that you appear to know everything that's written on them, I discovered that "wide world" before you did!


God loves a tryer Andrew.

[TVC15]

I fear you are wasting your breath. The hypocrisy that’s existed throughout all this has been truly cringeworthy. Remember when we were all told not to use this crisis to make political points?

Best just to take the p1ss now.

You forgot to say “stay safe”.....that seemingly gets you out of any old boll-ox you post.

Stay safe

[RingoMcCartney]

And still they come!

"`When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea'"

Mr Cantona.

[Mala591]

Every 'town' should have a 'community hospital' which should be flexible enough to work in different ways according to local pressures/requirements. Normally they act as a stepping stone between acute care hospitals and care home/home (they are much cheaper to run than acute care hospitals).

In the current crisis they could accept Covid-19 positive patients from acute hospitals and care for them until they recover or (sadly) die.

Imo Covid-19 positive patients should NOT be discharged back to care homes/home until they are tested as virus free.

[tiger76]

Some of the promised PPE has arrived from Turkey,although precisely how much.and what is still unknown.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52378491

[mdd2]

Up to a point Mala-are you saying someone with a snotty nose who decides to go to A&E and is positive should not be at home self isolating with is family? I agree re putting positive patients in RH and NH if they cannot be safely self isolated and if staff haven't the right protection which need not be full PPE unless they are in close contact

[Devils_Advocate]

Study finds no benefit, higher death rate in patients taking hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19.

Coronavirus patients taking hydroxychloroquine, a treatment touted by President Trump, were no less likely to need mechanical ventilation and had higher deaths rates compared to those who did not take the drug, according to a study of hundreds of patients at US Veterans Health Administration medical centers.

In the study of 368 patients, 97 patients who took hydroxychloroquine had a 27.8% death rate. The 158 patients who did not take the drug had an 11.4% death rate.

"An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone. These findings highlight the importance of awaiting the results of ongoing prospective, randomized, controlled studies before widespread adoption of these drugs," wrote the authors, who work at the Columbia VA Health Care System in South Carolina, the University of South Carolina and the University of Virginia.

Hydroxychloroquine has been used for decades to treat patients with diseases such as malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. Trump has touted the drug as a "game changer" for Covid-19 and said hydroxychloroquine shows "tremendous promise."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/21/heal ... yUb9Bm0BEQ

Trumps family had stock and his major political financial donor had a massive stake in the company and would make millions if it was adopted by health services around the world.

I think thats all you need to know around why Trump was pushing it so hard. I'm sure I put a link about this weeks ago in the Trump thread when he was using his national press briefings to push the drug

[claretyke]

Many times the present situation has been likened to the second world war.
IMHO If Mr Hancock had been in charge then he would have saved millions
of lives. By the time Hancock got our troops to Dover the Germans would
already have been in London a fortnight.
The man makes inep sound productive.

[jrgbfc]

Many times the present situation has been likened to the second world war.
IMHO If Mr Hancock had been in charge then he would have saved millions
of lives. By the time Hancock got our troops to Dover the Germans would
already have been in London a fortnight.
The man makes inep sound productive.

If this lot were in charge during the 2nd WW we'd all be speaking German now.

[Paul Waine]

If this lot were in charge during the 2nd WW we'd all be speaking German now.

Do you think we'd have the same health care system as they do in Germany?

[ClaretAndJew]

Imagine thinking everyone in England would suddenly be speaking German 70 years after a War ended.

[Damo]

They should draw around something perfectly circular, and make a venn diagram, of all the people saying we should have tackled this the way Germany have, and the people who would be up in arms, saying things like "BoRiS iS SeLlING tHe NhS tO DoNaLd TrUmP" if we funded our healthcare like the Germans do

[Taffy on the wing]

Seems to me I just summed up what other posters are also saying. Which is, those in a permanent state of being unable to give credit where credits due and try and find fault where non exists, just cant help themselves.

Raw nerve touched , me thinks.

No, just a ridiculous statement on your part.

[Taffy on the wing]

What's the matter Andrew. Does the fact that the whole world and his dog knows that the blame for this global pandemic lays fairly and squarely at the door of your communist brothers in China!?

Anyway, I'll save us both the bother shall I

Daily Express! Far right media ! Etc etc

There, saved hours that both of us would never get back!

Keep smiling pal

Now that it's become all but impossible to defend the Governments response.
Let's blame the Chinese...........how creative of you, and your right wing friends.

[Spijed]

Low dose aspirin might help those who are pre-disposed to blood clots if you get the virus:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/21/heal ... index.html