Covid-19

[Lowbankclaret]

I should be surprised if the number of extra deaths caused by lockdown isn't already over 150. That's 1,000 a week; and 2,000 a week has been mooted as the possible current figure, and that doesn't include future excess deaths caused by missed cancer diagnosis and treatment.

Yes , I agree. Not sure how that gets fixed as well.

[tim_noone]

But they don't exist, it's made up by Mr miggins

All Spanish holidaymakers were home weeks ago, all Spanish hotels are shut.

The only place where people are waiting to get back from is Bangladesh and a northern part of India which I forget the name of.

Was tongue in cheek.

[Lowbankclaret]

Two weeks ago we were debating it being relaxed in three weeks, ie end of next week. I said it would be 5-6 weeks but then softened thinking figures were going to allow things being relaxed.

Now it’s looking like a lot longer. Not sure the public is going to support that.

[Grumps]

Now I don’t want to start a major fall out between people, but I would like to do a bit of poll of contributors.

What’s the number of deaths per day people would think was the trigger to relax lockdown.

My thoughts would be under 150 per day. Not that that’s an acceptable number, but a balance to try to get the economy back going at least a little.

Then using testing to watch for increasing infection rates. Not sure people will accept lockdown being tightened again but it might have to happen if R gets above one again.

Thoughts?

I don't think you can put a number on it. It's more the balance against the deaths and getting people back to work, shops reopening, families being allowed to meet.

I think your 150 would tick the boxes in the government's 5 point plan. But pressure will come from big sectors in the business world on the government to relax, long before 150

If I was pushed, I would say between 200 and 300 depending where the deaths are occurring and what the infection rate was.

[Grumps]

Was tongue in cheek.

Sorry..

[Grumps]

Two weeks ago we were debating it being relaxed in three weeks, ie end of next week. I said it would be 5-6 weeks but then softened thinking figures were going to allow things being relaxed.

Now it’s looking like a lot longer. Not sure the public is going to support that.

We need to keep an eye on Spain and Italy... If their phased easing works, there will be enormous pressure for us to do similar. Spain start the first phase on Monday. They have also agreed that independent areas can open up sooner if it's felt appropriate. For example some of the smaller canary islands are opening up at phase 2. Some of the bigger, holiday islands, where death figures are either single or double figures want to follow suit.

[tim_noone]

Two weeks ago we were debating it being relaxed in three weeks, ie end of next week. I said it would be 5-6 weeks but then softened thinking figures were going to allow things being relaxed.

Now it’s looking like a lot longer. Not sure the public is going to support that.

I guess they'll have to... and try and stick as close to the guidelines as they possibly can. It's the economy...and peoples employment I worry for.

[Lowbankclaret]

I guess they'll have to... and try and stick as close to the guidelines as they possibly can. It's the economy...and peoples employment I worry for.

I agree, my industry is going to be heavily impacted. I can see my company getting rid of 40% of its workforce.

[ksrclaret]

Two weeks ago we were debating it being relaxed in three weeks, ie end of next week. I said it would be 5-6 weeks but then softened thinking figures were going to allow things being relaxed.

Now it’s looking like a lot longer. Not sure the public is going to support that.

No it’s not, they’ll be relaxing things slowly in a few weeks, as per the press conference yesterday.

[NottsClaret]

Now I don’t want to start a major fall out between people, but I would like to do a bit of poll of contributors.

What’s the number of deaths per day people would think was the trigger to relax lockdown.

My thoughts would be under 150 per day. Not that that’s an acceptable number, but a balance to try to get the economy back going at least a little.

Then using testing to watch for increasing infection rates. Not sure people will accept lockdown being tightened again but it might have to happen if R gets above one again.

Thoughts?

We need to wean ourselves off this macabre fascination with death rates for now. They only paint a clumsy picture of where we were 4 or 5 weeks ago.

The Germans and South Koreans are only interested in the R0 number. Mass testing, tracking and tracing, with widespread use of face masks should be the focus. Not how many people got infected in a care home in early March. It's tragic, but it's not fixing anything here and now obsessing over the figures for that. Save it for a public enquiry in a few years time.

[tim_noone]

We need to wean ourselves off this macabre fascination with death rates for now. They only paint a clumsy picture of where we were 4 or 5 weeks ago.

The Germans and South Koreans are only interested in the R0 number. Mass testing, tracking and tracing, with widespread use of face masks should be the focus. Not how many people got infected in a care home in early March. It's tragic, but it's not fixing anything here and now obsessing over the figures for that. Save it for a public enquiry in a few years time.

I would say on a positive regards care homes. To date. My grandson is a cook in a colne private care home.and theres not been any Deaths regards Covid-19 since the outbreak. And only two end of life deaths in roughly 4 months.

[Lowbankclaret]

We need to wean ourselves off this macabre fascination with death rates for now. They only paint a clumsy picture of where we were 4 or 5 weeks ago.

The Germans and South Koreans are only interested in the R0 number. Mass testing, tracking and tracing, with widespread use of face masks should be the focus. Not how many people got infected in a care home in early March. It's tragic, but it's not fixing anything here and now obsessing over the figures for that. Save it for a public enquiry in a few years time.

Having read a few more articles this morning, I tend to agree with most of what your saying.
I would just like care homes to be helped a lot more and that being brought into control before we do anything.

[fatboy47]

lockdown ending will be a result of pressure from Tory party funders..and be dictated by their desire to get the big bucks flowing again..

as was the delay in starting lockdown

Boris's job at the moment is to act like he's resisting pressure from the public...which is still near non existent in reality. Hence the briefings which present as a lecture in prudence to the baying masses.

[mdd2]

I think the problem with this bug is the variability of infection from nothing to a death from multi-organ failure coupled with a test that is complicated and insensitive-(at best 75%-and we have no idea how good the various labs are at testing or how good the swab takers are at getting a good swab-my son says you need a sore nose afterwards). This brings you back as to how you deal with this in a care home and sadly for any ID in an institution you behave as if everyone potentially has it.Now that is not easy-how do you ensure proper hand washing, how do you keep everyone 2 metres apart unless staff need to be up close? Do you put everyone in PPE and what kind of PPE? I know testing helps but when you test negative, when do you next test and was the result a true negative or a positive that has been missed. And then if the test was positive in someone who is well, what does that mean, do they have live virus or is it just some RNA from dead virus?
This is a nightmare and now worse because we have a skeleton public health system not as geared for pandemics as it used to be due to the reductions in funding that followed the crash of 2008

[jackmiggins]

You’ve missed the point that compulsory masks are an altruistic measure. There are issues as you say about the air tightness for the wearer so droplets can penetrate the mask for the wearer. The thing is, and this is what most people overlook, is that there will be massively lower amounts of droplets in the air to penetrate your mask as long as everybody else is also wearing them.

If you take the selfless view of it, it does become clear why masks are a good idea

Haven’t missed the point at all. Equally pressure is increased from exhalation, spreading this further- plus touching the mask, and then any surface increases the spread.

[jackmiggins]

Was tongue in cheek.

Quoted by Dominic Raab a couple of days ago - I presume these are mainly repatriations.

[Zlatan]

Haven’t missed the point at all. Equally pressure is increased from exhalation, spreading this further- plus touching the mask, and then any surface increases the spread.

Are you suggesting that someone who coughs and is wearing a mask will still spread the same (or more) droplets than someone who is not wearing a mask?

Or do you agree that someone wearing a mask will spread fewer droplets than someone who is not wearing a mask?

Its a 50/50 decision is it better to wear a mask or not if you want to reduce the amount of droplets you expel...? Yes or No?

[tiger76]

18-24 year olds shouldn't be concerned about themselves personally. Under 25's with no health conditions are virtually safe. They're a lot more likely to be killed in a car accident, and I doubt that 48% are concerned about that.

Concern for other people, that's a different matter of course.

This is precisely the point,there has been a minuscule number of deaths in the 45 and under age group,and many of those had underlying health conditions,so it's understandable that age range would feel secure,however they could still potentially be spreading the disease to older relatives,if they don't comply to the guidance,i don't see why most younger workers can't return to work,as long as they and their employers observe social distancing,at some point we have to ease slowly back to a form of normality,the lockdown can't be ongoing indefinitely,the effect on the economy already is clear for all to see,and the longer it's maintained,the harder the recovery will be,and the job losses will spiral.

And this doesn't take into account the mental health issues,which will have been exacerbated by this lockdown,there's not just the financial impact to consider,there's also the physical and emotional well-being to factor in to the equation,when people are confined to their homes for long periods,especially if you don't have access to any outside space,e'g a garden.

[Mala591]

lockdown ending will be a result of pressure from Tory party funders..and be dictated by their desire to get the big bucks flowing again..

as was the delay in starting lockdown

Boris's job at the moment is to act like he's resisting pressure from the public...which is still near non existent in reality. Hence the briefings which present as a lecture in prudence to the baying masses.

Does 'pressure from the public' include the many thousands (millions?) who are close to losing their jobs and their income?

The 'horror' of the current situation might come down to the choice between:

Going back to work and risking your life (a very low risk to the majority of the population) OR stay in lockdown and lose your job/income/home/self-respect/sanity etc etc

An impossible decision for any politician to make and we, the public, must be much more involved in the future strategy for living with this virus.

[jackmiggins]

Think if they cough, the pressure will be substantially greater through the mask/face gap, spreading further at increased velocity. Additional spread through the wearer touching the mask and then other surfaces. I’ve observed wearers and this manipulation of the mask is certainly true - also a good percentage drop it below the nose, for comfort presumably?

[Grumps]

Been avoiding this thread for a couple of days, due to 'infighting', but feel I must make the following observations (no doubt some will feel these are political - I can assure you that they are not).
For a mask to be effective, it must be airtight around its perimeter, such that air can only be inhaled via the infrastructure. Gaps around the side nullify this to an extent and the relatively small gaps around the edges will result in a significantly greater suctional 'pressure' to bring surrounding air in. Any virus contained within this air has double the surface area to adhere to (being the face beneath the mask and the inner surface of the mask. Added to this, people unused to wearing masks will tend to touch their masks frequently, for comfort and to adjust. Added to this, ordinary fabric masks shouldn't be worn more than once, due to moisture ingress & the above.
If we do have to wear masks, I will endeavour to purchase air tight masks - if male also ensure that you are clean shaven - for obvious reasons re; air tightness and reduction in surface area.
I'd also reiterate my earlier comments regarding air travel - still baffled that we have no restrictions on incoming passengers. Amazed that there are still 200,000 ex pats/holidaymakers desperate to fly in from Spain!!! Doesn't really sit well with me to inject an influx from a viral hotspot, never mind the other parts of the World, in which we have very little info regarding effects of the virus. As an aside, I know the cost for these is being mooted as a loan, but I naturally wonder how much of the cost will actually be repaid once they return to their tax avoiding idylls???

Come on Jack, don't do a hit and run, I asked you earlier where these 200,000 people are fighting to get out of spain
Just to give you a clue...... They don't exist......

[jackmiggins]

Posted at 10:06, Dominic Raab quoted this two days ago!

[martin_p]

Does 'pressure from the public' include the many thousands (millions?) who are close to losing their jobs and their income?

The 'horror' of the current situation might come down to the choice between:

Going back to work and risking your life (a very low risk to the majority of the population) OR stay in lockdown and lose your job/income/home/self-respect/sanity etc etc

An impossible decision for any politician to make and we, the public, must be much more involved in the future strategy for living with this virus.

You forgot risking other people’s lives as well. No one has the right to make a decision to risk other people’s lives.

[Grumps]

Posted at 10:06, Dominic Raab quoted this two days ago!

No he didn't..... He said all holidaymakers had returned, the last lot being cruise passengers

There were British subjects in Bangladesh waiting for a plane, and some in India.

[android]

lockdown ending will be a result of pressure from Tory party funders..and be dictated by their desire to get the big bucks flowing again..

as was the delay in starting lockdown

Boris's job at the moment is to act like he's resisting pressure from the public...which is still near non existent in reality. Hence the briefings which present as a lecture in prudence to the baying masses.

Is there any length of lockdown or degree of economic downturn that you think might cost a life?

[jackmiggins]

No he didn't..... He said all holidaymakers had returned, the last lot being cruise passengers

There were British subjects in Bangladesh waiting for a plane, and some in India.

Crikey - are you still feeling so guilty following your repatriation from your March holiday? There are Brits all over the World waiting to fly back in their thousands. Many of us object that we are footing the bill to repatriate ex pats & those that greedily bagged cheap holidays, especially as they seem to be influxing from epidemic hotspots.

[Grumps]

Crikey - are you still feeling so guilty following your repatriation from your March holiday? There are Brits all over the World waiting to fly back in their thousands. Many of us object that we are footing the bill to repatriate ex pats & those that greedily bagged cheap holidays, especially as they seem to be influxing from epidemic hotspots.

You really don't deal in facts do you?

1. There are not thousands waiting to fly back, I've listed where the few are, at the most 3 planes full.
2. I did not have a repatriation flight, I flew back on the plane I had booked, just a few hours late
3. It was not a cheap last minute holiday, it was booked in June 2019!!!!
4. I don't think there have been any flights back from Europe at the tax payers expense. In fact many had to pay more when their flight was cancelled.
5. I flew back from a place where the deaths are Still only in double figures, so no hot-spot

[dsr]

You forgot risking other people’s lives as well. No one has the right to make a decision to risk other people’s lives.

No-one in government should make any decisions at all? No doctors should make decisions? No army officers should make decisions? Sometimes you need a professional to make a decision that risks your life - not least, because your life is permanently at risk and someone has to weigh up the pros and cons of various forms of action.

[tiger76]

Well well looks like the testing target will be hit after all,i must admit i had my doubts,but kudos to the government,after a slow start they've stepped out to the plate over the last week,not without prodding from the opposition it must be said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52496227

The next challenge is putting an exit strategy in place,so lockdown can be partially lifted,tracking & tracing will play a part in that,but the app won't be available for a fortnight or so.

[martin_p]

No-one in government should make any decisions at all? No doctors should make decisions? No army officers should make decisions? Sometimes you need a professional to make a decision that risks your life - not least, because your life is permanently at risk and someone has to weigh up the pros and cons of various forms of action.

If I’m in the army and I’ve implicitly given someone the permission to take a risk decision on my behalf. If I’m at a doctor’s I’d expect him or her to seek my permission to risk my life unless I’m not in a position to give it.

[dsr]

If I’m in the army and I’ve implicitly given someone the permission to take a risk decision on my behalf. If I’m at a doctor’s I’d expect him or her to seek my permission to risk my life unless I’m not in a position to give it.

And if you're Winston Churchill then you had no right to make any decision at all between 1940 and 1945.

If someone is in lockdown the social isolation and other factors put them at risk of death. If someone is out of lockdown coronavirus puts them at risk of death. Are you saying that the government should not make a decision as to whether they stay in lockdown - it ought to be up to each of us, individually, to make our own minds up?

[Devils_Advocate]

Well well looks like the testing target will be hit after all,i must admit i had my doubts,but kudos to the government,after a slow start they've stepped out to the plate over the last week,not without prodding from the opposition it must be said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52496227

The next challenge is putting an exit strategy in place,so lockdown can be partially lifted,tracking & tracing will play a part in that,but the app won't be available for a fortnight or so.

I agree that the govt (with scrutiny and challenge) have really started to make some good progress around testing and hopefully will continue to improve how they make it accessible and utilise its full capacity.

The target is a red herring in the bigger picture but this is as much (if not more) the fault of those looking for away to measure the govts failure

I understand why the govt had to push and pull out the stops to meet the target but the success of hitting it is slightly tainted in my eyes when the govt have had to treat it like a campaign push and send out emails to their party members and supporters to persuade them to come and get tested so they would meet a target deadline

Still I give them kudos and credit for their general performance and improvements of late on testing rather than for meeting an arbitrary target they set themselves

[martin_p]

And if you're Winston Churchill then you had no right to make any decision at all between 1940 and 1945.

If someone is in lockdown the social isolation and other factors put them at risk of death. If someone is out of lockdown coronavirus puts them at risk of death. Are you saying that the government should not make a decision as to whether they stay in lockdown - it ought to be up to each of us, individually, to make our own minds up?

No, I’m saying everyone should stay in lockdown while breaking it risks other people’s lives. Is it that hard to understand?

[tiger76]

You forgot risking other people’s lives as well. No one has the right to make a decision to risk other people’s lives.

Funnily enough we do that every day,life can never be completely risk free,what we and the government can attempt to do is minimise those risks,but nobody can completely eliminate them,there's risks crossing the road,that's why we have traffic lights,and other safety devices,there's risks in driving on the motorway,and also in flying,but millions of people undertake those journeys every day,now i agree if your a fit 20-30 year old,and for example you decide to congregate with your mates for a game of football in the park,and then later that evening you called on your grandparents,to deliver food say,and didn't maintain a 2m distance,or even worse you actually went into their house without a valid reason,i.e you were their main carer,then that's daft and irresponsible on both levels,but thankfully the vast majority of the populace aren't dense between the ears,and understand the reasons for these restrictions,for a short-lived period,however when it starts to adversely affect people through job losses,depression,and other ailments,then a sensible judgement has too be made as to when to gradually start loosening the lockdown,and i don't see why young fit people can't commence some form of phased working,maybe some social activities at a safe distance,tennis is one that comes to mind,well still shielding the elderly and vulnerable at the same time,the reality is we'll have to find a way of living with covid-19 for several months minimum,and it's totally unrealistic to continue the lockdown for that long.

[NottsClaret]

No, I’m saying everyone should stay in lockdown while breaking it risks other people’s lives. Is it that hard to understand?

We're going to have to accept some balance though martin. Being in 'lockdown' carries its own risks, now and particularly in the coming years. We can't sacrifice everything for one virus, this isn't a black and white issue.

So yeah, a lot of this is really hard to understand.

[Mala591]

Let's not forget that supermarkets and food shops have been open and busy during the lockdown and there doesn't appear to have been any serious local infection incidents. We need to start gradually relaxing the lockdown NOW with clear, easily understood 'step by step' instructions (not guidelines) e.g.

Exercise for up to an hour TWICE a day
Allow travelling up to 10 miles from home for exercise
Two friends allowed to meet for exercise - walking, running, golf, tennis
etc etc

[jackmiggins]

You really don't deal in facts do you?

1. There are not thousands waiting to fly back, I've listed where the few are, at the most 3 planes full.
2. I did not have a repatriation flight, I flew back on the plane I had booked, just a few hours late
3. It was not a cheap last minute holiday, it was booked in June 2019!!!!
4. I don't think there have been any flights back from Europe at the tax payers expense. In fact many had to pay more when their flight was cancelled.
5. I flew back from a place where the deaths are Still only in double figures, so no hot-spot

Wish you would drop your personal guilt agenda. £75 million has been allocated to these flights - hadn't you heard?
Quite simply, even if I'd booked last year, I wouldn't have flown anywhere in March - that would be totally irresponsible. I actually cancelled a holiday to the West highlands - certainly wouldn't have put a foot on a plane!

[tiger76]

Let's not forget that supermarkets and food shops have been open and busy during the lockdown and there doesn't appear to have been any serious local infection incidents. We need to start gradually relaxing the lockdown NOW with clear, easily understood 'step by step' instructions (not guidelines) e.g.

Exercise for up to an hour TWICE a day
Allow travelling up to 10 miles from home for exercise
Two friends allowed to meet for exercise - walking, running, golf, tennis
etc etc

I think those measures,or some of them,will happen in time,but i'm not certain it'll be next week,when the lockdown's next up for review,my best guess would be the end of May,any non contact pastimes/sports that can resume whilst observing social distancing,should be allowed to do so,as quickly as reasonably possible,i'd certainly include golf and tennis in that bracket,professional sports are an entirely different kettle of fish altogether,it'll be at least a couple of months before they'll get the go ahead.

[martin_p]

I think those measures,or some of them,will happen in time,but i'm not certain it'll be next week,when the lockdown's next up for review,my best guess would be the end of May,any non contact pastimes/sports that can resume whilst observing social distancing,should be allowed to do so,as quickly as reasonably possible,i'd certainly include golf and tennis in that bracket,professional sports are an entirely different kettle of fish altogether,it'll be at least a couple of months before they'll get the go ahead.

You’re going to have real trouble if you start relaxing lockdown only for certain sections of society. Golf and tennis are very much middle class pursuits, relaxing rules around just those sports isn’t helping a tower block dweller in an inner city much.

[Grumps]

Wish you would drop your personal guilt agenda. £75 million has been allocated to these flights - hadn't you heard?
Quite simply, even if I'd booked last year, I wouldn't have flown anywhere in March - that would be totally irresponsible. I actually cancelled a holiday to the West highlands - certainly wouldn't have put a foot on a plane!

It may well have been irresponsible to fly in March, though no restrictions were in place

However as I've told you, I flew in February!!!!
75 million quid to Spanish flights? You having a laugh?

[Damo]

Screenshot_20200501-143819_Twitter.jpg (620.72 KiB) Viewed 2507 times

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... 1588336160

Makes you wonder how this NHS procurement manager can procure ppe to make a sh*t load of money on when theres a shortage of ppe

[Devils_Advocate]

Screenshot_20200501-143819_Twitter.jpg
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... 1588336160

Makes you wonder how this NHS procurement manager can procure ppe to make a sh*t load of money on when theres a shortage of ppe

More good journalism from the Gaurdian and this guy is a disgrace and should lose his job.

Corruption and immoral practices is rife in big business, industry and politics and regardless of whether you are a leftish NHS worker or some Tory party donor we the people should support the exposure of it and not stand for it

I doubt we'll see the usual suspects who like to pull apart any Gaurdian investigation into the govt and its supporters show the same concern about ever detail of this article but not to worry

I've had a go at some of the articles youve shared recently Damo but on this im in total agreement and think it is good to highlight stories like this

[martin_p]

How did we reach 100k tests? By being disingenuous and including tests SENT as well as those actually conducted.

'The number of tests includes:

Tests processed through our labs.
Tests sent to individuals at home or to satellite testing locations'

From: https://t.co/hWM4mMUy4l

Only 54k people were tested yesterday.

Yes, a sneaky way of changing the way tests are counted that the public won’t necessarily be aware of.

[Tall Paul]

Pretty sure Hancock also promised 100k per day, not for one day at the end of the month.

[Zlatan]

Screenshot_20200501-143819_Twitter.jpg
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... 1588336160

Makes you wonder how this NHS procurement manager can procure ppe to make a sh*t load of money on when theres a shortage of ppe

There's sc#m in all walks of life, just review this message board to find some good examples.

Most people though are good hard working people who will do anything to help someone - the majority on this forum fit into that category.

[Mala591]

You’re going to have real trouble if you start relaxing lockdown only for certain sections of society. Golf and tennis are very much middle class pursuits, relaxing rules around just those sports isn’t helping a tower block dweller in an inner city much.

I was unaware that 'lower class' people weren't allowed to play tennis in their local park. Thank you for enlightening me Martin.

[Grumps]

I was unaware that 'lower class' people weren't allowed to play tennis in their local park. Thank you for enlightening me Martin.

Some people will just find problems with everything mala, if football had been suggested it would have been wrong because its a working class game, bowls because its for the elderly etc etc.

Any little bit of hope and help, to get us out of this mess should be embraced, not nit picked through.

[Devils_Advocate]

Some people will just find problems with everything mala, if football had been suggested it would have been wrong because its a working class game, bowls because its for the elderly etc etc.

Any little bit of hope and help, to get us out of this mess should be embraced, not nit picked through.

Its not just people finding problems but that people see things differently. I posted on this a couple of weeks ago not to find fault in anything but just to highlight that positive measures for some can negatively impact others or have a wider negative impact.

Just my view on things but dont assume that because people dont see the things the same as yourself you know why that is

Opening golf courses, Tennis Courts, DIY stores and Garden Centres is great but I think the real challenge and what will be much more important is how they manage to ease the lockdown for those at the bottom of society living on big housing estates with a real lack of disposible income

Id love to be able to go and have a game of golf but its not a struggle for me at home where I have all the mod cons, can drive to supermarkets if and when I want and buy everything I need, live by lovely woodland areas to walk in and have a peaceful communal garden area to relax in

At the moment we look at this very much through an ageist lens but this is and will even more become about socio economic status and poverty

If the country starts to open up nicely to the comfortable and well off and the poor are left locked in their concrete jungles then thats when we could really see social unrest and people just refusing to follow the lockdown rules

Its a tough one and im not suggesting keeping things closed for the fear of upsetting those who haven't got access but the govt need to keep this in mind and find a way they can offer a release to those who are likely have it the toughest

[TVC15]

You’re going to have real trouble if you start relaxing lockdown only for certain sections of society. Golf and tennis are very much middle class pursuits, relaxing rules around just those sports isn’t helping a tower block dweller in an inner city much.

Tennis - just not played very much in the country but certainly not elitist...most tennis courts are free but still empty and it costs virtually nothing for a racket.

In terms of golf that’s just simply not true. A pretty ignorant comment really. It’s a sport played by all ages and it’s particularly good for keeping older people physically and mentally agile. You can get a concession membership for OAPs at many courses and the cost per week is hardly anything and many people play 3 or 4 times a week with a round taking 4 hours and they then often mix socially afterwards.
Have a walk round any municipal golf course and you will see just how busy they are and how many “working class” people play it.

[CombatClaret]

Well well looks like the testing target will be hit after all,i must admit i had my doubts,but kudos to the government,after a slow start they've stepped out to the plate over the last week,not without prodding from the opposition it must be said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52496227

They haven't even come close, they just moved the goal posts.

"Previously, a test would be counted once the sample had been processed in laboratories. But this definition has been changed in the last few days, a senior source told HSJ...

HSJ understands that up to 50,000 of the tests that will be reported as having taken place on 30 April will actually represent the mailing or the agreeing to mail a home testing kit."