Covid-19

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Devils_Advocate
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat May 09, 2020 9:01 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 8:37 am
No removing of the flags whilst putting and they were working on how to remove balls from the hole without touching it.
This was put in place before lockdown. I played the day before full lockdown and I dudn't need to touch the flag or hole

FactualFrank
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Re: Covid-19

Post by FactualFrank » Sat May 09, 2020 9:02 am

fatboy47 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 8:34 am
Guess I'm genuinely struggling a bit here...not sure if one of the brainier types on here can help?

From what I can see Covid 19 is absolutely rife in the UK, if from testing 100k folk a day they're getting circa 6k positives?

Given that the incubation period for the virus is around 14 days, and we've been in ""lockdown"" for nearly 50 days doesnt that suggest that ""lockdown"" is pretty inneffective/ pointless ?

It just seems a bit daft that I'm told I cant wander down to the shore on an offshore i
island with no cases, and go fishing in my kayak, alone, whilst thousands of people wander into the country relatively unchecked.

Genuine post...its all a bit beyond me.
More people being tested and fewer deaths being associated with Covid-19 and fewer hospital admissions.

So something is working.
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Stayingup
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Stayingup » Sat May 09, 2020 9:32 am

I read the below comment this morning regarding face masks bought online. Surely can't be true can it?

Any face mask you buy online will have been made in China but will say made in the US or Australia they and already infected deliberately with Corvid 19. The Chinese are doing all they can to make the situation in the West even more catastrophic!~!

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Rileybobs » Sat May 09, 2020 9:33 am

Stayingup wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:32 am
I read the below comment this morning regarding face masks bought online. Surely can't be true can it?

Any face mask you buy online will have been made in China but will say made in the US or Australia they and already infected deliberately with Corvid 19. The Chinese are doing all they can to make the situation in the West even more catastrophic!~!
What the hell do you read?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat May 09, 2020 9:41 am

Stayingup wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:32 am
I read the below comment this morning regarding face masks bought online. Surely can't be true can it?

Any face mask you buy online will have been made in China but will say made in the US or Australia they and already infected deliberately with Corvid 19. The Chinese are doing all they can to make the situation in the West even more catastrophic!~!
Its true and I also heard that back in November on one of his regular jaunts to Stalinist Russia Corbyn nipped over to China and came back with a dodgy briefcase that he wouldn't let anyone near.

Draw your own conclusions from that but seems a bit fishy to me

Image
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat May 09, 2020 9:59 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:11 pm
I didn’t say that it mattered, just that it’s the rule. I suppose it matters if everyone else also thinks that the rule doesn’t matter though.

I live in a fairly rural area yet I’ve tried to go on a run only on days where we haven’t planned a family walk.
The rules are being ignored & when safe & applicable common sense reigns, the problems stem from large gatherings in gardens, crates of lager & BBQs kind of thing notorious with the kind of weather we are seeing, solidarity or couples going for walks aren't a problem, providing there are keeping themselves to themselves they could be going for 10 walks a day doesn't make a difference, people (some) are ignoring the rules but using common sense to keep the virus at bay. You've got 3 camps, 1 camp, who do everything so precisely complying to the rules, 2 camp, who are ignoring the rules but are using common sense & not spreading the virus in a super alert & controlled way, 3 camp, people who don't really give a s**t promoting the parties & large gatherings which go hand in hand.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Rileybobs » Sat May 09, 2020 10:06 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:59 am
The rules are being ignored & when safe & applicable common sense reigns, the problems stem from large gatherings in gardens, crates of lager & BBQs kind of thing notorious with the kind of weather we are seeing, solidarity or couples going for walks aren't a problem, providing there are keeping themselves to themselves they could be going for 10 walks a day doesn't make a difference, people (some) are ignoring the rules but using common sense to keep the virus at bay. You've got 3 camps, 1 camp, who do everything so precisely complying to the rules, 2 camp, who are ignoring the rules but are using common sense & not spreading the virus in a super alert & controlled way, 3 camp, people who don't really give a s**t promoting the parties & large gatherings which go hand in hand.
My point being that if everyone decided to be in ‘2 camp’ then we’d be in bother. I think these people also fall into the selfish category because they think they are more important than others who are making sacrifices for the sake of others.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat May 09, 2020 10:15 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:06 am
My point being that if everyone decided to be in ‘2 camp’ then we’d be in bother. I think these people also fall into the selfish category because they think they are more important than others who are making sacrifices for the sake of others.
The 1 & 2 camps at the end of the day results in the virus not spreading, make what you want from that as you no doubt will. It's not a case of being more important or selfish, some of the 2nd camp probably work on the front or have relatives who do, lots of people have also donated food, time & effort towards the cause. I personally find it impossible to criticise anybody who go about their business in a safe & controlled way providing there are NOT spreading the virus.

Rileybobs
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Rileybobs » Sat May 09, 2020 10:25 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:15 am
The 1 & 2 camps at the end of the day results in the virus not spreading, make what you want from that as you no doubt will. It's not a case of being more important or selfish, some of the 2nd camp probably work on the front or have relatives who do, lots of people have also donated food, time & effort towards the cause. I personally find it impossible to criticise anybody who go about their business in a safe & controlled way providing there are NOT spreading the virus.
By that logic, people going to the beach or gathering in each other’s gardens are doing no harm as long as they are not spreading the virus. The problem is, you cannot be certain that you aren’t spreading the virus - even those in the ultra cautious camp.

We have been asked, as a society, to obey the rules of the lockdown to reduce the spread of the virus. The government can’t give individual rules to individual people so by and large everyone has to obey the same rules, whether you live in a city centre flat or on a farm.

You may think it’s ok to break the rules as long as you are being cautious, but the actual fact is that it isn’t ok. If stopped by the police this would be proven. Your argument is similar to those who defend their speeding when driving because they only speed when it’s ‘safe to do so’.

If everyone had your attitude then this would absolutely certainly result in more deaths.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by FactualFrank » Sat May 09, 2020 10:26 am

The trouble with the "Camp 2" mentioned above is that it involves common sense.
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Erasmus » Sat May 09, 2020 10:26 am

Fatboy47 makes a very good point. Why aren't the number of cases falling that much when we are so long into lockdown? One answer is that they are falling in reality, but more testing means a higher percentage of cases are being detected.

But the other significant point is that in recent weeks most transmissions of the virus are taking place in hospitals and care homes, whereas previously it was in the wider community. The level of infection amongst most of the population has fallen quite markedly, but unfortunately it has hit care homes very hard and that is where a larger percentage of the infections are appearing.

That is so sad. I always feel that the test of a civilised society is how well it cares for the elderly and in that regard we appear to have let them down very badly.
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Rileybobs » Sat May 09, 2020 10:29 am

Erasmus wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:26 am
Fatboy47 makes a very good point. Why aren't the number of cases falling that much when we are so long into lockdown? One answer is that they are falling in reality, but more testing means a higher percentage of cases are being detected.

But the other significant point is that in recent weeks most transmissions of the virus are taking place in hospitals and care homes, whereas previously it was in the wider community. The level of infection amongst most of the population has fallen quite markedly, but unfortunately it has hit care homes very hard and that is where a larger percentage of the infections are appearing.

That is so sad. I always feel that the test of a civilised society is how well it cares for the elderly and in that regard we appear to have let them down very badly.
I haven’t paid attention to the statistics because I find the daily infected and daily death counts morbid and frankly boring. But it stands to reason that if 100,000 people per day are now being tested compared to the tiny number before, then the daily infected statistic is bound to stay the same. In fact I would expect it to go up.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Damo » Sat May 09, 2020 10:30 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:01 am
This was put in place before lockdown. I played the day before full lockdown and I dudn't need to touch the flag or hole
Sounds like you had a shocker of a round there pal
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat May 09, 2020 10:36 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:25 am
By that logic, people going to the beach or gathering in each other’s gardens are doing no harm as long as they are not spreading the virus. The problem is, you cannot be certain that you aren’t spreading the virus - even those in the ultra cautious camp.

We have been asked, as a society, to obey the rules of the lockdown to reduce the spread of the virus. The government can’t give individual rules to individual people so by and large everyone has to obey the same rules, whether you live in a city centre flat or on a farm.

You may think it’s ok to break the rules as long as you are being cautious, but the actual fact is that it isn’t ok. If stopped by the police this would be proven. Your argument is similar to those who defend their speeding when driving because they only speed when it’s ‘safe to do so’.

If everyone had your attitude then this would absolutely certainly result in more deaths.
Not if you are going out & keeping a good distance, you can 100% guarantee not spreading the virus, the virus cannot jump 100 foot & in a extremely extremely likelihood of surface touching the virus cannot withstand hospital strength hand sanitizer being applied on a regular basis. If everybody had my attitude we wouldn't even in a lockdown in the first place, as soon as the thing kicked off in Wuhan the borders would have been shut, & for a fortnight a super strict lockdown would have ensued, we would actually be asking coronavirus what's that? it would have been well & truelly nipped in the bud before the thing flared up to this extent.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Rileybobs » Sat May 09, 2020 10:40 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:36 am
Not if you are going out & keeping a good distance, you can 100% guarantee not spreading the virus, the virus cannot jump 100 foot & in a extremely extremely likelihood of surface touching the virus cannot withstand hospital strength hand sanitizer being applied on a regular basis. If everybody had my attitude we wouldn't even in a lockdown in the first place, as soon as the thing kicked off in Wuhan the borders would have been shut, & for a fortnight a super strict lockdown would have ensued, we would actually be asking coronavirus what's that? it would have been well & truelly nipped in the bud before the thing flared up to this extent.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Magic. Absolute magic.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat May 09, 2020 10:46 am

Grumps wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 8:56 am
More cases, obviously with more testing. To keep it balanced there are more negative tests as well!!
The big plus, even with all these extra cases admissions for Covid are down 18% in the past week
Sorry to be a bit positive this early in the day.
I didn’t mean to come across as being negative. There are some really positive signs in the data. As you say tested has increased by a factor of 10, but cases per day have remained about the same. Numbers of people in hospital are coming down. But we are becoming the bad country of Europe with many other countries saying we have done a bad job of this. I am not so sure they have done better, they may not be counting the deaths the same as us.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat May 09, 2020 10:48 am

Spijed wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:01 am
Germany have been less strict in terms of a lock down than us.
My OCD kicked when I saw your post was your 11111 th post.

Not read about Germany, so don’t know much about what they have done.

FactualFrank
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Re: Covid-19

Post by FactualFrank » Sat May 09, 2020 10:52 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:48 am
My OCD kicked when I saw your post was your 11111 th post.

Not read about Germany, so don’t know much about what they have done.
Should be known as CDO.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Stayingup » Sat May 09, 2020 10:56 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:33 am
What the hell do you read?
Newspapers. What do you read?

Actually it was a comment in a broadsheet. I could hardly believe it. You have to question some peoples sanity sometimes.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat May 09, 2020 11:03 am

Spijed wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:01 am
Germany have been less strict in terms of a lock down than us.
Just been reading the mail,on line and came across this. Is this what will happen here do we think??

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... spike.html

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Re: Covid-19

Post by tiger76 » Sat May 09, 2020 11:16 am

Erasmus wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:26 am
Fatboy47 makes a very good point. Why aren't the number of cases falling that much when we are so long into lockdown? One answer is that they are falling in reality, but more testing means a higher percentage of cases are being detected.

But the other significant point is that in recent weeks most transmissions of the virus are taking place in hospitals and care homes, whereas previously it was in the wider community. The level of infection amongst most of the population has fallen quite markedly, but unfortunately it has hit care homes very hard and that is where a larger percentage of the infections are appearing.

That is so sad. I always feel that the test of a civilised society is how well it cares for the elderly and in that regard we appear to have let them down very badly.
I haven't been following all the updates,but from what i have seen,this seems to sum the current situation up very well,community transmissions are markedly slowing,presumably in large part due to the lockdown,this is the good news,but the care homes and hospitals are still experiencing rising cases,and this is where the focus needs to shift to.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Grumps » Sat May 09, 2020 11:17 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:46 am
I didn’t mean to come across as being negative. There are some really positive signs in the data. As you say tested has increased by a factor of 10, but cases per day have remained about the same. Numbers of people in hospital are coming down. But we are becoming the bad country of Europe with many other countries saying we have done a bad job of this. I am not so sure they have done better, they may not be counting the deaths the same as us.
Much dispute about how other countries are counting. I've spoken to two friends in Spain, both say different, so even they don't know
It's not a popular idea with some who want to know everything now, but the only failsafe counting is the end of year figures, compare with other years and you have your extra numbers.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Rileybobs » Sat May 09, 2020 11:21 am

Stayingup wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:56 am
Newspapers. What do you read?

Actually it was a comment in a broadsheet. I could hardly believe it. You have to question some peoples sanity sometimes.
I read all sorts. But I certainly wouldn’t read a newspaper that printed that China were infecting face masks and distributing them to the west. What paper was this in?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Grumps » Sat May 09, 2020 11:31 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:21 am
I read all sorts. But I certainly wouldn’t read a newspaper that printed that China were infecting face masks and distributing them to the west. What paper was this in?
Mine have arrived from China today. I've no qualms about wearing them if it's forced on me.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TVC15 » Sat May 09, 2020 11:41 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:36 am
If everybody had my attitude we wouldn't even in a lockdown
If we all had your attitude we’d be locked up somewhere that’s for sure !
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat May 09, 2020 11:50 am

TVC15 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:41 am
If we all had your attitude we’d be locked up somewhere that’s for sure !
Please dispense the pearls of wisdom you keep hidden & buried away, how exactly would you have controlled the spread of the virus & minimised the death toll, enough indication & advanced warning was at play to action my idea with no delay or messing about, just look at where we are & what’s happened during the point of lockdown till current & the inevitable resurgence when/if eased.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat May 09, 2020 11:58 am

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 1:25 am
"Far left politics" - This is simply you insulting my opinions by giving them a name that doesn't fit, and sidestepping the points I've made. You are playing the man and not the ball, and even in that you're completely inaccurate. I've never advocated the abolition of private property or anything close, so my politics are not "far left" but somewhere to the left of centre. My politics are also not a brand. We all have a sense of ethics, common sense, reason, history, etc - and that should inform our political views. It's not a brand, but my honest opinion. You won't find me adjusting my opinions to prevailing winds. Can you say the same?
What's the point of having a mind if you're unwilling or incapable of changing it Andrew?

I wasnt playing the man not the ball. I was simply making the observation that your political opinion had been soundly rejected by the British electorate at the most recent general a matter of months ago.

Given Keir "The personality vacuum" Starmer, election as leader. Your political opinion has now been rejected by the Labour Party.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat May 09, 2020 12:04 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:15 am
The 1 & 2 camps at the end of the day results in the virus not spreading, make what you want from that as you no doubt will. It's not a case of being more important or selfish, some of the 2nd camp probably work on the front or have relatives who do, lots of people have also donated food, time & effort towards the cause. I personally find it impossible to criticise anybody who go about their business in a safe & controlled way providing there are NOT spreading the virus.
If 'camp 2' aren't causing any harm why the **** do you think what they are doing is not permitted you ******* bozo?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat May 09, 2020 12:08 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:50 am
And the weird thing is, as you know, nobody actually claimed that you SAID such a thing but it suits your stupid "look at me" agenda to pretend they did.
Clearly you didn't
and just as clear, however, is your wish to have any relevant and probably damning questions of your ramshackle government to be shelved - gagged, one might say - to a later, much later and more comfortable date.
Any news praising the government is, of course, welcomed !
Sorry, bud, but your fantasy of the government controlling every single aspect of our media outlets ain't happening just yet.
Get used to it.

So nobody said "I wanted the press to be gagged"!

🤔
evensteadiereddie wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:01 am
And again, Ringo,by the time this is all over and the press gagged as you and others seem to wish , the subsequent inquiry will be as far-reaching and damning as er, Bloody Sunday, Hillsborough, Grenfell, Russian intereference and so on.
Everything will be forgotten. No blame , nothing learned.
Apart from you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

🤣😅😅😆😁😄😃😀😂😂😉🙂😂😃😄🙃🤣😅😅😄😃😀😃

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Re: Covid-19

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat May 09, 2020 12:17 pm

martin_p wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 9:11 am
One wonders whether Wrongo (or indeed the government) would be taking this stance if our figures were more like Germany’s than Spain and Italy’s. I think we all know the answer to that.
You're absolutely correct Marty. Rather than, first , consider-


Excess deaths which will be a key determining factor.

A consistent way that deaths are attributed to Covid 19

Obesity.

Rates of diabetes.

Ethnic make up of population.

Age demographics.

Population densities.

Poverty.

Whether a country had already experienced similar epidemics like MERS or SARS and had infrastructure already in place which certain countries have.

Whether or not a colder/warmer climate helps or hinders the contagious nature of this new virus.

Whether having global international hub, (LONDON) through which 1000s of people from all over the world pass through on a daily basis, is a disadvantage.

Rates of single occupancy homes

Rates of multiple occupancy homes

Numbers of the population people in care homes.

The potential effect of ultra violet light on the virus in countries experiencing their summer.

The effect of vitamin D deficiency in large swathes of the population at the end of a long grey winter.



I'd be at the front of the tiny minority of noisy mud slinging, point scoring for political purposes mob. Of course I would!

:roll:
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Stayingup » Sat May 09, 2020 12:26 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:21 am
I read all sorts. But I certainly wouldn’t read a newspaper that printed that China were infecting face masks and distributing them to the west. What paper was this in?
Yes I see. You would just close off your mind if the tenor didn't suit your views. Well I did say it was a comment and that neans not an article in the paper itself. You see its a free world unless you personally decide that you will close down parts of it. Free expression and all that we have in our open society.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Rileybobs » Sat May 09, 2020 12:36 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:26 pm
Yes I see. You would just close off your mind if the tenor didn't suit your views. Well I did say it was a comment and that neans not an article in the paper itself. You see its a free world unless you personally decide that you will close down parts of it. Free expression and all that we have in our open society.
I think I’d stop reading a newspaper if they saw it fit to print such a reckless and unfounded accusation. Not to mention how totally preposterous it is. So yes I would close my mind off to such stupidity - that has nothing to do with free expression and an open society.

What paper was it again? Genuinely curious.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TVC15 » Sat May 09, 2020 12:37 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:50 am
Please dispense the pearls of wisdom you keep hidden & buried away, how exactly would you have controlled the spread of the virus & minimised the death toll, enough indication & advanced warning was at play to action my idea with no delay or messing about, just look at where we are & what’s happened during the point of lockdown till current & the inevitable resurgence when/if eased.
It was a throwaway joke at your ridiculous comments that if everyone had your “attitude” we would have avoid the pandemic.
But since you actually decided to defend it - why don’t you look up the definition of hindsight and then let us all know how you would have know to do all these preventative measures back when it started in Wuhan.

And in no way am I defending the many mistakes the UK government have made - not by any means whatsoever. But for one bloke to be sat on his computer telling everyone that if everyone had followed his lead we would not have had a pandemic is shall we say right at the extreme end of the spectrum.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat May 09, 2020 12:47 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:37 pm
It was a throwaway joke at your ridiculous comments that if everyone had your “attitude” we would have avoid the pandemic.
But since you actually decided to defend it - why don’t you look up the definition of hindsight and then let us all know how you would have know to do all these preventative measures back when it started in Wuhan.

And in no way am I defending the many mistakes the UK government have made - not by any means whatsoever. But for one bloke to be sat on his computer telling everyone that if everyone had followed his lead we would not have had a pandemic is shall we say right at the extreme end of the spectrum.
FFS we would have avoided it or at the very least completely minimised it to a very small problem, people in China at the start of the outbreak were dropping like flies, it doesn't take Einstein to figure out - Hey up there's a whiff of a S**storm that's bound to end up in our direction, a 4 year old at kindergarten could have worked out that 1 out. The early evidence suggested just how contagious & deadly the virus was, I'm not sure how more convincing the argument needs to be than hundreds & thousands stone cold dead on a slab in a morgue, it's basic basic f***ing common sense a neatherdal would grasp.

Spijed
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Spijed » Sat May 09, 2020 12:53 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:47 pm
FFS we would have avoided it or at the very least completely minimised it to a very small problem, people in China at the start of the outbreak were dropping like flies, it doesn't take Einstein to figure out - Hey up there's a whiff of a S**storm that's bound to end up in our direction, a 4 year old at kindergarten could have worked out that 1 out. The early evidence suggested just how contagious & deadly the virus was, I'm not sure how more convincing the argument needs to be than hundreds & thousands stone cold dead on a slab in a morgue, it's basic basic f***ing common sense a neatherdal would grasp.
The evidence suggests it's no more contagious than other viruses. Otherwise you'd have far more cases even with people keeping their distance. For example, with measles you only have to be in the same room to catch it as it spreads fairly easily.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat May 09, 2020 12:57 pm

Spijed wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:53 pm
The evidence suggests it's no more contagious than other viruses. Otherwise you'd have far more cases even with people keeping their distance. For example, with measles you only have to be in the same room to catch it as it spreads fairly easily.
It was by working out just how many people were keeling over, the threat was downplayed to avoid panicking the public & some people were reeled in & duped, anybody possessing a modicum of intelligence could see exactly what was happening.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TVC15 » Sat May 09, 2020 12:59 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:47 pm
FFS we would have avoided it or at the very least completely minimised it to a very small problem, people in China at the start of the outbreak were dropping like flies, it doesn't take Einstein to figure out - Hey up there's a whiff of a S**storm that's bound to end up in our direction, a 4 year old at kindergarten could have worked out that 1 out. The early evidence suggested just how contagious & deadly the virus was, I'm not sure how more convincing the argument needs to be than hundreds & thousands stone cold dead on a slab in a morgue, it's basic basic f***ing common sense a neatherdal would grasp.
You sound like you are having some kind of breakdown.
This user liked this post: TheFamilyCat

Lord Rothbury
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Lord Rothbury » Sat May 09, 2020 1:00 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:46 am
I didn’t mean to come across as being negative. There are some really positive signs in the data. As you say tested has increased by a factor of 10, but cases per day have remained about the same. Numbers of people in hospital are coming down. But we are becoming the bad country of Europe with many other countries saying we have done a bad job of this. I am not so sure they have done better, they may not be counting the deaths the same as us.
I.C.U not overwhelmed.
No shortage of ventilators.
No care staff deserting their posts and leaving the elderly to die in their beds.
No footage of wards overflowing with patients.

Yet we we the bad boys of Europe.

Russia has 10,000 new cases a day yet only 90 deaths ?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat May 09, 2020 1:00 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:57 pm
It was by working out just how many people were keeling over, the threat was downplayed to avoid panicking the public & some people were reeled in & duped, anybody possessing a modicum of intelligence could see exactly what was happening.
Yet you still think it's ok for folk to be breaking the lockdown rules and have even admitted to doing so yourself?

Are you schizophrenic?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat May 09, 2020 1:01 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:59 pm
You sound like you are having some kind of breakdown.
I’m completely with it & on it.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TVC15 » Sat May 09, 2020 1:03 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:01 pm
I’m completely with it & on it.
And don’t forget “full of it”

TheFamilyCat
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Re: Covid-19

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat May 09, 2020 1:03 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:01 pm
I’m completely with it & on it.
On what?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat May 09, 2020 1:04 pm

I love Jakubclaret. Forget Captain Tom, Jakub is the real hero of this crisis.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat May 09, 2020 1:05 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:25 am
Well they directly compared the UK to another country which is one of the things you've been complaining about.

Although are you trying to suggest that the only critique you've had of other people's posts has been when they've used raw mortality rates to draw conclusions and judgements on the UK government's handling of the 2020 Coronavirus pandemic crisis? If that is the case then rather than the accusations of you using multiple usernames, I think the suggestion that multiple users are using your username would be more accurate.
So, the Treasury Select Committee did not as you claim,
use raw mortality rates to draw conclusions and judgements on the UK government's handling of the 2020 Coronavirus pandemic crisis. Even before the said crisis has actually ended, did they aggi!? No a group of MPs did not disagree with me did they!?

However , there are some far more qualified people than you or I that share my opinion.

Dr. Stephen Baker , a professor in molecular microbiology leading a team who have developed a Covid 19 test for front line NHS workers. Speaking on Talk radio on Thursday morning around 8.30 am.

"Headline figures, at this point are only usefull in tracking where about on the virus's progress curve we currently are. With countrys using different methods, it would be unwise to use them for comparisons. Given age, health and obesity appear to be key determinants in a virus that we are still learning about

Nick Strike , head of Health and Life Events at the Office of National Statistics- Speaking on LBC around 9 am Thursday morning.

"The UK is widely accepted as being the fastest to certify and codify deaths. So I'm not surprised that our numbers are higher at this stage in the pandemic."

"There are large differences in the "method data" ,"reporting structures" between individual countries. Also the fact that we are counting "WITH COVID as opposed to "OF COVID" is also a key determining factor that could explain the greater levels of mortality so far"

Using raw mortality figures at this stage is somewhat premature when trying to ascertain how well individual countries have performed. Population density, age and the ethnic make up of individual populations will be, I think, be important factors to consider"

"The ONS would typically take around ONE YEAR when analysing standardised mortality rates before publishing its findings. Given its still ongoing, its probably going to be some time before we are at that stage"

Karol Sikora - a British physician specialising in oncology. He is currently Medical Director of Rutherford Health plc, Director of Medical Oncology at the Bahamas Cancer Centre, a partner in and dean of the University of Buckingham's medical school.

"Comparisons are dangerous. Spain's figures dont include care homes.

Italy's barely include them.

Frances sporadically include them.

It may make striking headlines,but every country records differently.

Comparisons on figures are pointless for now"

I tend to agree with a professor in molecular microbiology at Cambridge university, the head of Health and Life Events at the ONS, and a leading medical expert aggi.



Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Sat May 09, 2020 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TheFamilyCat
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Re: Covid-19

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat May 09, 2020 1:10 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:05 pm
So, the Treasury Select Committee did not as you claim,
use raw mortality rates to draw conclusions and judgements on the UK government's handling of the 2020 Coronavirus pandemic crisis. Even before the said crisis has actually ended, did they aggi!? No a group of MPs did not disagree with me did they!?

However , there are some far more qualified people than you or I that share my opinion.

Dr. Stephen Baker , a professor in molecular microbiology leading a team who have developed a Covid 19 test for front line NHS workers. Speaking on Talk radio on Thursday morning around 8.30 am.

"Headline figures, at this point are only usefull in tracking where about on the virus's progress curve we currently are. With countrys using different methods, it would be unwise to use them for comparisons. Given age, health and obesity appear to be key determinants in a virus that we are still learning about

Nick Strike , head of Health and Life Events at the Office of National Statistics- Speaking on LBC around 9 am Thursday morning.

"The UK is widely accepted as being the fastest to certify and codify deaths. So I'm not surprised that our numbers are higher at this stage in the pandemic."

"There are large differences in the "method data" ,"reporting structures" between individual countries. Also the fact that we are counting "WITH COVID as opposed to "OF COVID" is also a key determining factor that could explain the greater levels of mortality so far"

Using raw mortality figures at this stage is somewhat premature when trying to ascertain how well individual countries have performed. Population density, age and the ethnic make up of individual populations will be, I think, be important factors to consider"

"The ONS would typically take around ONE YEAR when analysing standardised mortality rates before publishing its findings. Given its still ongoing, its probably going to be some time before we are at that stage"

Karol Sikora - a British physician specialising in oncology. He is currently Medical Director of Rutherford Health plc, Director of Medical Oncology at the Bahamas Cancer Centre, a partner in and dean of the University of Buckingham's medical school.

"Comparisons are dangerous. Spain's figures dont include care homes.

Italy's barely include them.

Frances sporadically include them.

It may make striking headlines,but every country records differently.

Comparisons on figures are pointless for now




What is your opinion of our death rates?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat May 09, 2020 1:16 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:10 pm
What is your opinion of our death rates?

I tend to agree with a professor in molecular microbiology at Cambridge university, the head of Health and Life Events at the ONS, and a leading medical expert.

Do you?

In fact dont even bother answering. I'll let you crack on with your premature, uninformed, political mud slinging, while we're in the middle of an unprecedented global pandemic.

I've got some far more appealing walking in the glorious sunshine to be doing.

Stay safe and well one and all and enjoy the great weather!

🌞👍🌞👍🌞👍

TheFamilyCat
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Re: Covid-19

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat May 09, 2020 1:22 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:16 pm
I tend to agree with a professor in molecular microbiology at Cambridge university, the head of Health and Life Events at the ONS, and a leading medical expert.

Do you?

In fact dont even bother answering. I'll let you crack on with your premature, uninformed, political mud slinging, while we're in the middle of an unprecedented global pandemic.

I've got some far more appealing walking in the glorious sunshine to be doing.

Stay safe and well one and all and enjoy the great weather!

🌞👍🌞👍🌞👍
Funnily enough, I do agree with him. Comparisons are pointless, now and in the future.

31,241 is the number of deaths in the UK. That's not 'political mud-slinging' and is not 'uninformed'.

What is your opinion on 31,241 deaths?
Last edited by TheFamilyCat on Sat May 09, 2020 1:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Spijed
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Spijed » Sat May 09, 2020 1:23 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:16 pm
I tend to agree with a professor in molecular microbiology at Cambridge university, the head of Health and Life Events at the ONS, and a leading medical expert.

Do you?
So why have they come to a different view point than scientist's in other parts of Europe as to when we should have locked down etc?

AndrewJB
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Re: Covid-19

Post by AndrewJB » Sat May 09, 2020 1:25 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:58 am
What's the point of having a mind if you're unwilling or incapable of changing it Andrew?

I wasnt playing the man not the ball. I was simply making the observation that your political opinion had been soundly rejected by the British electorate at the most recent general a matter of months ago.

Given Keir "The personality vacuum" Starmer, election as leader. Your political opinion has now been rejected by the Labour Party.
Only in a Daily Mail world would my political opinions be seen as “far left.” That draws a line back to how you inform yourself of what’s happening in the world. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor ... t_politics

Which of my opinions have been rejected by Labour?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by martin_p » Sat May 09, 2020 1:36 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:17 pm
You're absolutely correct Marty. Rather than, first , consider-


Excess deaths which will be a key determining factor.

A consistent way that deaths are attributed to Covid 19

Obesity.

Rates of diabetes.

Ethnic make up of population.

Age demographics.

Population densities.

Poverty.

Whether a country had already experienced similar epidemics like MERS or SARS and had infrastructure already in place which certain countries have.

Whether or not a colder/warmer climate helps or hinders the contagious nature of this new virus.

Whether having global international hub, (LONDON) through which 1000s of people from all over the world pass through on a daily basis, is a disadvantage.

Rates of single occupancy homes

Rates of multiple occupancy homes

Numbers of the population people in care homes.

The potential effect of ultra violet light on the virus in countries experiencing their summer.

The effect of vitamin D deficiency in large swathes of the population at the end of a long grey winter.



I'd be at the front of the tiny minority of noisy mud slinging, point scoring for political purposes mob. Of course I would!

:roll:
You seem to have missed completely the original point I made (and that which the poll I linked was about) which was about the timing of the lockdown, nothing to do with comparing death rates. So do you think we went into lockdown too late?

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