Covid-19

[TheFamilyCat]

You seem to have completely missed what I said which was about the timing of the lockdown, nothing to do with comparing death rates. So do you think we went into lockdown too late?

Why go to the trouble of reading what somebody has posted when you can just paste a standard reply?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

What the hell do you read?

I'd be more interested in what recreational drugs they're taking.

[chadders]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z42G8Wus4kA

Thought that was interesting watch about the US preparedness. Or lack of. From someone who worked on the 'playbook' under Obama.

Hopefully the link works

[aggi]

So, the Treasury Select Committee did not as you claim,
use raw mortality rates to draw conclusions and judgements on the UK government's handling of the 2020 Coronavirus pandemic crisis. Even before the said crisis has actually ended, did they aggi!? No a group of MPs did not disagree with me did they!?

Snipped

Good to see that whatever the topic is you're still happy to completely make stuff up (unless you can point out where I claimed the treasury select committee used raw mortality rates to draw conclusions and judgements on the UK government's handling of the 2020 Coronavirus pandemic crisis).

[chadders]

Just had a long conversation with my step daughter. Her partner is slowly on the mend after 8 weeks in hospital. Still in icu but had his trachy removed this morning. He's been in a very bad way and all credit to two wonderful hospitals. He's not out of the woods but certainly heading in the right direction.

She had the virus before lockdown and just by a stroke of good fortune her firm instructed her to work from home. At that time she didn't know she was unwell with Covid-19. She works in a large open office and that action by her company probably saved a number of folk becoming poorly.

[Lowbankclaret]

I.C.U not overwhelmed.
No shortage of ventilators.
No care staff deserting their posts and leaving the elderly to die in their beds.
No footage of wards overflowing with patients.

Yet we we the bad boys of Europe.

Russia has 10,000 new cases a day yet only 90 deaths ?

I humbly suggest Russia is telling porkies.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Stories from South Korea not sounding good.

Bars and nightclubs being shut according to twitter.

[NewClaret]

Just had a long conversation with my step daughter. Her partner is slowly on the mend after 8 weeks in hospital. Still in icu but had his trachy removed this morning. He's been in a very bad way and all credit to two wonderful hospitals. He's not out of the woods but certainly heading in the right direction.

She had the virus before lockdown and just by a stroke of good fortune her firm instructed her to work from home. At that time she didn't know she was unwell with Covid-19. She works in a large open office and that action by her company probably saved a number of folk becoming poorly.

Brilliant news.

[NewClaret]

Stories from South Korea not sounding good.

Bars and nightclubs being shut according to twitter.

What’s happened? Thought they had it nailed?

[NewClaret]

Corbyn-loving Miriam Margoyles says she was hoping Boris would die with Covid.

Classy.

[Bordeauxclaret]

What’s happened? Thought they had it nailed?

Flashed up that one person who has it visited various nightclubs, frantically searching for 2000 others who also attended. Spread to at least 40 people so far.
It’s actually from Twitter rather than an individual account so presuming it’s accurate.

[Devils_Advocate]

What’s happened? Thought they had it nailed?

They've been getting back to normal but with focus on a track and trace strategy. They have quickly identified the root cause and started to track the potential people at risk but a couple of things to take from this

1 It shows how difficult it is gonna be to come out of lockdown and back to normal without triggering a potentially serious 2nd wave

2 We will get a really good test case of how well track and trace works. If they manage to close this down straight away then with a good testing and tracking system it gives encouragement of getting out of this without wave after wave. If they fail to control it and it spreads rapidly then it questions how well a good track and trace system can help manage and contain this virus

Lets hope the SK strategy works cos it will give hope for the rest of the world if the right steps are taken to prepare for the easing of lockdown

[Stayingup]

I think I’d stop reading a newspaper if they saw it fit to print such a reckless and unfounded accusation. Not to mention how totally preposterous it is. So yes I would close my mind off to such stupidity - that has nothing to do with free expression and an open society.

What paper was it again? Genuinely curious.

Your the king of waffle. Why dont try commenting on post instead of posting this boring incessant nonesense

[Rileybobs]

Your the king of waffle. Why dont try commenting on post instead of posting this boring incessant nonesense

Why is it waffle? I’m just asking you which newspaper printed that the Chinese were sending over face masks infected with Covid-19. A fair question given the claim wouldn’t you say? Why won’t you tell me?

[tiger76]

PPE issue raising itself again.

Coronavirus: Social care providers 'about 24 hours away' from running out of PPE

Although the health secretary said the social care sector is a priority, bosses say they are dangerously short of equipment.

Community care providers across the UK "are down to about 24 hours' worth of PPE" for their staff, Sky News has learned.

Mark Adams, chief executive of social care provider Community Integrated Care (CIC), says during a group call with "about 25 chief executives from the social care sector", many revealed they were dangerously short of protective equipment.

Mr Adams told Sky News: "They then have the ethical dilemma of what do you do when you run out?

"Do you still allow your staff to work into a building when they have no protection whatsoever?"

In a daily COVID-19 Downing Street press conference last week, Health Secretary Matt Hancock told Sky News that supporting the social care sector was "a priority".

But Mr Adams argues that help has come too late.

He says: "We'll see two things happening, we'll see stories of incredible bravery as people go above and beyond to help the vulnerable. But we're also going to see some tragedies."

Community Integrated Care provides support for around 800,000 vulnerable people across the UK, the majority of that is in-home support for working-age adults with learning disabilities.

James Brooks, 27, from Middlesbrough lives with a learning disability.

He lives in a home setting which is supported 24 hours, seven days a week by social care staff.

"I'm a bit lost now because I don't have a routine," Mr Brooks told Sky News. "I do get quite depressed about certain situations, but the staff have helped me a lot to try and come up with things to do.

"Otherwise, I'd just be in my room the whole time and that's not a good thing."

During our visit, Mr Brooks' support worker, Kay, plays a game of swing-ball with him in the garden, encourages him to play on his drum kit and helps him make a cup of tea.

It is assistance that relies on there being a degree of proximity between carers and those that they support.

Some staff have already made huge sacrifices.

"I've had two members of staff who have moved into a service with someone that we support that is exhibiting COVID-19 symptoms," Kelly Winham, CIC's Regional Manager for the North East told Sky News.

"We're not in hospitals, we're not frontline in that way, but we are very much frontline in our local communities."

Who do you think you are kidding Mr Hancock
If you think this problem's solved
You are the one that needs to stop playing games
You are the one that needs to think again
If you want to keep your job
Cos who do think you are kidding Mr Hancock
If you think the covid's done

[1HappyClaret]

And now we have 16m goggles that are no good

[martin_p]

Looks like the tide is turning on how well the British public think the government has dealt with the virus, it now thinks the U.K. government has performed worse than the governments of Spain and Italy which wasn’t the case two weeks ago the last time the poll was taken. Only the orange one across the pond is performing worse.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... taly-spain

[Lord Rothbury]

The death rate per 1 million of population currently puts th US at 1/3rd that of Belgium.Also far less than the UK,Spain,Italy and some other Euro countries .???Are they really doing that badly.

[Devils_Advocate]

STAY ALERT

[Devils_Advocate]

The death rate per 1 million of population currently puts th US at 1/3rd that of Belgium.Also far less than the UK,Spain,Italy and some other Euro countries .???Are they really doing that badly.

Got a feeling you dont understand how this virus spreads, at what rate and how it can be initially controlled. Apart from all that I think you might just be on to something

[KateR]

And now we have 16m goggles that are no good

when you buy stock you know you're not expecting to use there is always an issue in the long term, preservation is a critically important issue for many items that is often overlooked and normally comes to light long after people responsible are no longer around. Stocking and supply chain is not that easy but when you buy the wrong thing to start with then it makes the whole thing a farce compounded by years of wasting money/time/effort to manage it just in case you might need it.

[Jakubclaret]

when you buy stock you know you're not expecting to use there is always an issue in the long term, preservation is a critically important issue for many items that is often overlooked and normally comes to light long after people responsible are no longer around. Stocking and supply chain is not that easy but when you buy the wrong thing to start with then it makes the whole thing a farce compounded by years of wasting money/time/effort to manage it just in case you might need it.

It shouldn't be a problem when buying in volume you mitigate the risk with a sale/use & return, big players such as the NHS who buy whatever items are in a commanding position with the purchasing power & can pretty much insist upon any arrangement or use other suppliers, you are not talking small amounts it's millions of units.

[dsr]

It shouldn't be a problem when buying in volume you mitigate the risk with a sale & return, big players such as the NHS who buy whatever items are in a commanding position with the purchasing power & can pretty much insist upon any arrangement or use other suppliers, you are not talking small amounts it's millions of units.

Are you forgetting something? Coronavirus has caused a shortage of PPE. They're desperately buying what they can, albeit finding that some of it is no use, exactly because they can't get it anywhere else.

[KateR]

It shouldn't be a problem when buying in volume you mitigate the risk with a sale/use & return, big players such as the NHS who buy whatever items are in a commanding position with the purchasing power & can pretty much insist upon any arrangement or use other suppliers, you are not talking small amounts it's millions of units.

we will have to disagree on that one, other than yes millions of units for daily use but they are not typically how you mix with emergency supplies/stock but I freely admit I have no idea how the NHS supply chain is run and am only going off numerous other stocks/spares and companies globally that I do know a little bit about.

[tim_noone]

And now we have 16m goggles that are no good

Fake news.....firstly we have no ppe,then 7weeks in ...actually I've lost count how long this has been going on we find 16million pairs of safety glasses

[Taffy on the wing]

PPE issue raising itself again.

Coronavirus: Social care providers 'about 24 hours away' from running out of PPE

Although the health secretary said the social care sector is a priority, bosses say they are dangerously short of equipment.

Community care providers across the UK "are down to about 24 hours' worth of PPE" for their staff, Sky News has learned.

Mark Adams, chief executive of social care provider Community Integrated Care (CIC), says during a group call with "about 25 chief executives from the social care sector", many revealed they were dangerously short of protective equipment.

Mr Adams told Sky News: "They then have the ethical dilemma of what do you do when you run out?

"Do you still allow your staff to work into a building when they have no protection whatsoever?"

In a daily COVID-19 Downing Street press conference last week, Health Secretary Matt Hancock told Sky News that supporting the social care sector was "a priority".

But Mr Adams argues that help has come too late.

He says: "We'll see two things happening, we'll see stories of incredible bravery as people go above and beyond to help the vulnerable. But we're also going to see some tragedies."

Community Integrated Care provides support for around 800,000 vulnerable people across the UK, the majority of that is in-home support for working-age adults with learning disabilities.

James Brooks, 27, from Middlesbrough lives with a learning disability.

He lives in a home setting which is supported 24 hours, seven days a week by social care staff.

"I'm a bit lost now because I don't have a routine," Mr Brooks told Sky News. "I do get quite depressed about certain situations, but the staff have helped me a lot to try and come up with things to do.

"Otherwise, I'd just be in my room the whole time and that's not a good thing."

During our visit, Mr Brooks' support worker, Kay, plays a game of swing-ball with him in the garden, encourages him to play on his drum kit and helps him make a cup of tea.

It is assistance that relies on there being a degree of proximity between carers and those that they support.

Some staff have already made huge sacrifices.

"I've had two members of staff who have moved into a service with someone that we support that is exhibiting COVID-19 symptoms," Kelly Winham, CIC's Regional Manager for the North East told Sky News.

"We're not in hospitals, we're not frontline in that way, but we are very much frontline in our local communities."

Who do you think you are kidding Mr Hancock
If you think this problem's solved
You are the one that needs to stop playing games
You are the one that needs to think again
If you want to keep your job
Cos who do think you are kidding Mr Hancock
If you think the covid's done

It's almost as if they're trying to cull the weaker/more reliant members of society.

[Grumps]

It's almost as if they're trying to cull the weaker/more reliant members of society.

Careful, people might actually think you believe that.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Daily Mail deputy political editor has tweeted members of the cabinet are ‘raging’ at Boris making decision with the ‘quad’. He’s pre recorded his speech before they’ve had chance to discuss the 50 page document this afternoon.

[NewClaret]

And now we have 16m goggles that are no good

Presumably the labour administration will get a slating for this? Or maybe not

Presume the 10y warranty has just expired as well

[CombatClaret]

Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter who the government used to hide behind on international comparisons gives and excellent takedown of the daily briefings or 'Number Theatre'

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/ ... 0347004928

[CombatClaret]

new slogan released

EXnJDsCXQAE-46g.jpg (150.85 KiB) Viewed 2534 times

Too many good ones out there

[CombatClaret]

New coronavirus infections are accelerating again in Germany just days after its leaders loosened social restrictions, raising concerns that the pandemic could once again slip out of control.

The Robert Koch Institute for disease control said in a daily bulletin the number of people each sick person now infects – known as the reproduction rate, or R – had risen to 1.1.
“It has to be expected that the R rate will go over 1 and we will return to exponential growth,” Lauterbach said in a tweet. “The loosening measures were far too poorly prepared.”

We didn't learn from Italy and we won't learn from this either.

[tiger76]

new slogan released

EXnJDsCXQAE-46g.jpg

Too many good ones out there

I agree with Nicola,this new slogan is far too vague,and the Scottish Government rightly in my view,are not interested in changing the current advice.

Scotland rejects new UK coronavirus slogan

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has said she will not use the UK government's new slogan, "Stay alert, control the virus, protect lives."

Sturgeon said her government was not consulted about the change. "The Sunday papers is the first I’ve seen of the PM’s new slogan," she wrote on Twitter.

"It is of course for him to decide what’s most appropriate for England, but given the critical point we are at in tackling the virus, #StayHomeSaveLives remains my clear message to Scotland at this stage."

The new slogan, which replaces "Stay at home, protect the NHS, save lives", has been criticised by some for being vague and unsuitable for tackling transmission of a virus.

The lack of clarity on messaging,has been a theme from the UK government throughout this outbreak,here's another example.

Met police group criticises 'wishy washy' government instructions

The government's pandemic response has been "wishy-washy", a body representing police officers in London has told BBC Radio 4, amid concerns that the public has begun ignoring lockdown restrictions.

Metropolitan Police Federation chairman Ken Marsh said authorities "needed to be firmer right from the beginning".

"Had we been very stringent from the off - it is painful, but it’s not overly painful in terms of what you’re actually being asked to do - then I think we would have a better result now," Marsh said.

[CombatClaret]

EXoxVt5XYAEejoM.jpg (99.5 KiB) Viewed 2467 times

Dr Ami Jones, an intensive care consultant in Wales, tweeted today to say: “Showing our supremacy in the world stats as we irresponsibly flount lockdown to celebrate VE Day in the worst fashion. Glad I’ve had a couple of weeks away from ITU to recuperate as the next wave is going to make this horrific statistic even worse. Things are about to get busy.”

He tweeted: “Our ICU already has more Covid cases than 2 weeks ago as more people go out. Ignoring lockdown has us seriously worried for the next few weeks.”

[TheFamilyCat]

New coronavirus infections are accelerating again in Germany just days after its leaders loosened social restrictions, raising concerns that the pandemic could once again slip out of control.

The Robert Koch Institute for disease control said in a daily bulletin the number of people each sick person now infects – known as the reproduction rate, or R – had risen to 1.1.
“It has to be expected that the R rate will go over 1 and we will return to exponential growth,” Lauterbach said in a tweet. “The loosening measures were far too poorly prepared.”

We didn't learn from Italy and we won't learn from this either.

We aren't expected to relax restrictions though are we?

[tiger76]

More testing problems,can this bunch get anything right,i was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt at first,but we're now more than 2 months since the 1st positive UK case was detected,and my patience is rapidly wearing thin.

UK forced to send 50,000 samples to US for testing

The UK government has admitted sending about 50,000 coronavirus tests to the US last week for processing after "operational issues" in UK labs.

The Department of Health said sending swabs abroad was among the contingencies to deal with "teething problems".

The samples were airlifted to the US in chartered flights from Stansted Airport, the Sunday Telegraph reported..

Results will be validated in the UK and sent to patients as soon as possible, officials said.

[CombatClaret]

We aren't expected to relax restrictions though are we?

We'll see, but if Garden Centers open, picnics allowed etc that's relaxing of restrictions.

Government guidance on 'Staying Alert' seems to be exactly the same as the 'Stay At Home' message, it's a colossal cl8sterf3ck of communication mismanagement.

EXpuTIEXQAIht_w.jpg (99.94 KiB) Viewed 2449 times

[Lord Rothbury]

EXoxVt5XYAEejoM.jpg

Dr Ami Jones, an intensive care consultant in Wales, tweeted today to say: “Showing our supremacy in the world stats as we irresponsibly flount lockdown to celebrate VE Day in the worst fashion. Glad I’ve had a couple of weeks away from ITU to recuperate as the next wave is going to make this horrific statistic even worse. Things are about to get busy.”

He tweeted: “Our ICU already has more Covid cases than 2 weeks ago as more people go out. Ignoring lockdown has us seriously worried for the next few weeks.”

The chart is missing Belgium and The Netherlands ????

[FactualFrank]

One thing I hope BoJo doesn't do, and that's relax things in the hope that as a nation we can rely on common sense.

We can't.

For example, If Bojo says there's now no limit to how much outdoor exercise we can have, people will take the **** and take that as being that lockdown is pretty much over.

I hope there's very little change announced tonight for our own safety.

[aggi]

More testing problems,can this bunch get anything right,i was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt at first,but we're now more than 2 months since the 1st positive UK case was detected,and my patience is rapidly wearing thin.

UK forced to send 50,000 samples to US for testing

The UK government has admitted sending about 50,000 coronavirus tests to the US last week for processing after "operational issues" in UK labs.

The Department of Health said sending swabs abroad was among the contingencies to deal with "teething problems".

The samples were airlifted to the US in chartered flights from Stansted Airport, the Sunday Telegraph reported..

Results will be validated in the UK and sent to patients as soon as possible, officials said.

I'm assuming this was in their attempt to hit 100k of tests. It ties in with people I know who are waiting a long time for test results from around then.

[Devils_Advocate]

My take on the new messaging for what its worth is that the govt are under a lot of pressure from their super rich, big business financial donors to ease lockdown and get people back working. This includes some of the powerful media tycoons and we have seen them starting to flex their muscles of late with the more critical articles they have written

Whilst Johnson will be very aware of this pressure at the same time he will also be wary of easing lockdown, causing more deaths and coming under fire from that side.

As a result if lockdown is going to end from the govts perspective it will look alot better if it falls apart naturally because of peoples actions rather than being a govt directive.

This new ambiguous messaging alongside a barrage of stories and opinion pieces questioning the lockdown from the right wing press is the perfect storm to shift public opinion to coming out of lockdown and enabling the govt to distance themselves from the fallout and blame the people

The messaging is ambiguous enough for those who will not accept any criticism of this govt to argue that it is still a clear message to isolate and social distance and blame 'idiots' for not following the advice

It feels like we have gone back to the weeks before the 23rd March where the govt did not want to commit to a full lockdown and were very ambiguous and non committal in their messaging putting the responsibility (and therefore the blame) on businesses and ordinary people

I hope despite this terrible new stay alert slogan that Johnson is crystal clear tonight in his message and expectations and that the govt take full ownership of the messaging and how well it works whether that be credit for success or criticism for any failures

[Zlatan]

How are we going to get people who couldn’t do the simple “stay at home” lockdown rule to adhere to anything that requires a little bit of intelligence.

For the past how ever many weeks (I’ve lost count now) we were meant to be staying home and only venturing out if your journey is absolutely necessary. We’ve had interpretation of the 2m rule to permit some idiots to have street parties and social gatherings on bridges where they claim “oh but we were socially distancing because 2m...” but they forget that the 2m rule is for when you’re journey is essential - not when you want to speak to Janet next door whilst sat on your front lawn.

Now we’re relying on people to understand that “Stay Alert” shouldn’t mean you prance around like a ninja when you go shopping at B&Q (other DIY retailers also apply); or wear binoculars when you go for a walk. We’ve actually got no hope have we...

[tiger76]

Duplicate post

[tiger76]

We'll see, but if Garden Centers open, picnics allowed etc that's relaxing of restrictions.

Government guidance on 'Staying Alert' seems to be exactly the same as the 'Stay At Home' message, it's a colossal cl8sterf3ck of communication mismanagement.

EXpuTIEXQAIht_w.jpg

Taking each of those in turn CC.

Stay at home as much as possible:each individual will interpret this as they see fit,does it mean you can go outside more than once a day,,quite possibly yes.there's no specific advice that you can't.

Work from home if you can:that's great for the folks who are able to work from home,what about the millions who cannot,are they anticipated to return to their workplaces ASAP,and if so what safety provisions are being provided.

Limit contact with other people:again open to interpretation,does this mean that you can meet friends/family members outdoors,does it allow for visiting friends/family.

Keep your distance:that seems clear enough,but again it's caveated by the 2m where possible.

Wash your hands:this and the self-isolation if anyone in your household is displaying symptoms,is the only clear message on the updated advice,far too many grey areas,and it'll be a nightmare for the police to enforce.

[CombatClaret]

it'll be a nightmare for the police to enforce.

They pretty much admitted the current lock down was unenforceable, asides from a few 'move along please' exercises I'm pretty sure was more for the social media appearance of enforcement.

They won't even try to enforce this, it's impossible, as you point out everything is so open to personal interpretation.

[taio]

The five tests for adjusting lockdown are crystal clear and sensible. Unfortunately I don't believe they have been sufficiently met to make any change to the approach just yet. However even if the current rules were to remain in place for now a growing number of people appear to be disregarding them. So whatever is decided it's about finding the least worst option which is an unenviable task.

[Blackrod]

Not sure how you come out of lockdown with thousands of new infections every day.

[CombatClaret]

Clearly also gives the signal that employers can put staff at risk
Employee: "Shouldn't we be 2 meters apart?"
Employer: "Sorry, that's just not possible"

[Spijed]

New coronavirus infections are accelerating again in Germany just days after its leaders loosened social restrictions, raising concerns that the pandemic could once again slip out of control.

The Robert Koch Institute for disease control said in a daily bulletin the number of people each sick person now infects – known as the reproduction rate, or R – had risen to 1.1.
“It has to be expected that the R rate will go over 1 and we will return to exponential growth,” Lauterbach said in a tweet. “The loosening measures were far too poorly prepared.”

We didn't learn from Italy and we won't learn from this either.

Problem is, we'll have no choice in the next few weeks and months but to lift the lockdown.

[Blackrod]

If some people aren’t intelligent enough to work out what two metres is then they’ll have trouble with more complicated rules.

People have had it too easy in this country and there’s a sub culture of people who have no respect for any rules. Lockdown would be a doddle for anyone who lived behind the former Iron Curtain. For people who have had street parties I wouldn’t have been averse to the use of tear gas, tasers or even rubber bullets to sort the stupid ignorant idiots out.