Germany started easing its lockdown around about 20th April. That’s three weeks ago, plenty of time to show up in infection figures.KateR wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 12:01 amI can't believe this is anything to do with the relaxation though, transmission takes time to actually show through and grow plus there has not been that much relaxation for any length of time has there? Does this indicate it is still going up occasionally? Am asking questions here?
Covid-19
Re: Covid-19
Re: Covid-19
I can 100% tell you the 2 companies I am working with had Pandemic Planning in addition to numerous other disaster planning scenarios. That's not to say some won't have had it but they have had plenty of time to work on reopening, am sure supermarkets didn't have all the ideas around distance stickers and shields for check out but they quickly adapted.
Far East learned during SARS the West didn't so definitely every Gov. has gone through a learning curve.
Last edited by KateR on Mon May 11, 2020 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Covid-19
One thing about the R number is that it's a very broad average. For example, if the UK's R is about 1, then it probably means that the old folks' home number is way above 1 while the rest of the UK is a bit below 1. It's variable between regions, between age groups, and between types of place.
Re: Covid-19
clearly, al you have to do is look at the heat maps and BJ said 0.5 and 0.9 in different place and it's still an issuedsr wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 12:27 amOne thing about the R number is that it's a very broad average. For example, if the UK's R is about 1, then it probably means that the old folks' home number is way above 1 while the rest of the UK is a bit below 1. It's variable between regions, between age groups, and between types of place.
Re: Covid-19
You're supposed to do both. Are you seriously suggesting plans should be fixed prior to knowing what the emergency is and not be subject to substantial review and change post commencement, especially during a pandemic that's the first of its kind? Sounds like a good idea
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Re: Covid-19
It's quite easy to interpret really:
If you are a blue collar worker you need to start making preparations to go back to work. White collar workers, meanwhile, remain at home, but as of this week they will be allowed to go sunbathing in the park, visit beauty spots in the car, shop at garden centres and go golfing.
Re: Covid-19
Wasn't aware there was an issue with your post
My issue would be with those people who listened to the speech and thought they Had to go into work in 12hrs,so much so they were ringing the boss up.
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Re: Covid-19
In my opinion, we have gleaned the following to date (no doubt more will eventually become evident);
1. The government had woefully inadequate plans to deal with a pandemic.
2. Even so, they neglected to address that situation sooner.
3. They opted for the bare minimum option of limiting infection to protect the capacity of the NHS - queues of critically ill patients at hospitals would have totally destroyed them politically, morally and ethically.
4. They are continuing in this vein, even though test and trace has proved the most efficient option to date.
5. I’ll beat on about this particular one, as I believe it’s the most critical - flights should have been suspended immediately. That’s basically how the virus entered the country after all. Any incoming passengers should have been isolated (as was originally the case with the few passengers flown in from ships and the original two Chinese patients detected in York). Why the hell may this be carried out at the end of the month? I know I’ll get flack for this as there are a few posters who took advantage (with gross stupidity) of cheap holidays in March and then moaned that their resorts had been effectively ‘shut down’ (probably hoping for some compensation!) in addition to those ex pats scampering back for free health treatment.
I’ve no doubt that political and civil service heads will be much more concerned with covering their tracks before the inevitable backlash. Personally, I’d be happier if they were all replaced immediately with competent officials determined to deal with the matter in hand, instead of putting all their efforts into covering their backs!
1. The government had woefully inadequate plans to deal with a pandemic.
2. Even so, they neglected to address that situation sooner.
3. They opted for the bare minimum option of limiting infection to protect the capacity of the NHS - queues of critically ill patients at hospitals would have totally destroyed them politically, morally and ethically.
4. They are continuing in this vein, even though test and trace has proved the most efficient option to date.
5. I’ll beat on about this particular one, as I believe it’s the most critical - flights should have been suspended immediately. That’s basically how the virus entered the country after all. Any incoming passengers should have been isolated (as was originally the case with the few passengers flown in from ships and the original two Chinese patients detected in York). Why the hell may this be carried out at the end of the month? I know I’ll get flack for this as there are a few posters who took advantage (with gross stupidity) of cheap holidays in March and then moaned that their resorts had been effectively ‘shut down’ (probably hoping for some compensation!) in addition to those ex pats scampering back for free health treatment.
I’ve no doubt that political and civil service heads will be much more concerned with covering their tracks before the inevitable backlash. Personally, I’d be happier if they were all replaced immediately with competent officials determined to deal with the matter in hand, instead of putting all their efforts into covering their backs!
Re: Covid-19
For those who don't know...... The above will be aimed at me and one other one herejackmiggins wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 6:43 am
I know I’ll get flack for this as there are a few posters who took advantage (with gross stupidity) of cheap holidays in March and then moaned that their resorts had been effectively ‘shut down’ (probably hoping for some compensation!)
Every single bit of the above is a lie, the poster has been told, and warned about it
1. It wasn't a cheap holiday, it was booked a year in advance
2. We didn't go in March, there were no warnings about travel, there were no cases in the UK, or where we travelled to, when we left.
3. We never moaned about the resort being shut down, as it was still open when we left
The only gross stupity is reposting something you've been told is a lie, time and time again
I've never done it, but if this continues then the poster will be reported to the moderator of this site.
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Re: Covid-19
Wasn’t specifically about you, whoever you are? Was about the massive influx, including thousands of Chinese students , ex pats and, yes the idiots that decided to fly out on holidays, fully knowing about the virus (actually in Feb when much more info was available to all).
Re: Covid-19
Check your previous posts, all aimed at mejackmiggins wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 7:19 amWasn’t specifically about you, whoever you are? Was about the massive influx, including thousands of Chinese students , ex pats and, yes the idiots that decided to fly out on holidays, fully knowing about the virus (actually in Feb when much more info was available to all).
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Re: Covid-19
The only posts aimed at you followed your trolling. My views are based on a more global ethos. Believe me, you are not uppermost in my mind.
Re: Covid-19
Top trending Google searches from around midnight last night:
We know people are stupid, Johnson and his team know people are stupid - they took advantage of this to get elected.
There are also people who are desperate to get back to work so if the Prime Minister tells them that it should be actively encouraged effectively immediately you don't expect them to contact their boss to ask when they can?
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Re: Covid-19
You really need to check your previous posts, and the various posts you've made accusing me of all sorts because of a holiday taken in February, and your insults in those posts.jackmiggins wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 7:51 amThe only posts aimed at you followed your trolling. My views are based on a more global ethos. Believe me, you are not uppermost in my mind.
You even said you'd get grief off certain posters once you mentioned cheap march holidays. I seem to recall one post where you accused be of having to return on a repatriation flight
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If they are so desperate to get back to work, what's been stopping them?Tall Paul wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 7:52 amTop trending Google searches from around midnight last night:
We know people are stupid, Johnson and his team know people are stupid - they took advantage of this to get elected.
There are also people who are desperate to get back to work so if the Prime Minister tells them that it should be actively encouraged effectively immediately you don't expect them to contact their boss to ask when they can?
As I understand it, correct me if iam wrong, the only businesses that will be open today, are those that have never been forced to shut down anyway.
Re: Covid-19
Quarantine for arrivals into the country except France. Scenes of overcrowding and no social distancing at Paris Gare du Nord this morning. They can then just drift into the UK with no quarantine and will potentially be spreading the virus. There’s no point having these rules if there’s a big weak link in the chain.
Re: Covid-19
No I’m suggesting you shouldn’t be waiting for the **** to hit the fan before having a decent plan. Clearly you need to be flexible and adapt after that.taio wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 1:18 amYou're supposed to do both. Are you seriously suggesting plans should be fixed prior to knowing what the emergency is and not be subject to substantial review and change post commencement, especially during a pandemic that's the first of its kind? Sounds like a good idea
Re: Covid-19
Has anyone heard from Inchy recently?
Wondering how he’s getting on.
Wondering how he’s getting on.
Re: Covid-19
France have agreement not to quarantine arrivals from E. U. And UK. and same for their subjects travelling into those countriesBlackrod wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:12 amQuarantine for arrivals into the country except France. Scenes of overcrowding and no social distancing at Paris Gare du Nord this morning. They can then just drift into the UK with no quarantine and will potentially be spreading the virus. There’s no point having these rules if there’s a big weak link in the chain.
I can see other countries reaching similar agreements, but with the caveat that if a certain country has a sudden rise in cases, the agreement could be lifted. It would be strange to be able to fly from France, but not Spain Portugal or anywhere else in Europe.
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Re: Covid-19
Precise dates would have helped, dates which might have helped businesses make re-opening plans and arrangements, however tentative, with something to work towards.
Sure, there'd be the understanding these would be under constant review and could possibly change but it seems to be the complete fog, the uncertainty which is killing some of these businesses off.
It was interesting to hear the views of two business folks from the South West after Johnson's waffle, one a hotel owner from Weston, the other representing trade across that region. Neither of them left-wingers, I assume, but both pretty scathing in their observations.
Sure, there'd be the understanding these would be under constant review and could possibly change but it seems to be the complete fog, the uncertainty which is killing some of these businesses off.
It was interesting to hear the views of two business folks from the South West after Johnson's waffle, one a hotel owner from Weston, the other representing trade across that region. Neither of them left-wingers, I assume, but both pretty scathing in their observations.
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Re: Covid-19
That’s correct. So hard to understand why there’s all the “confusion”. In fact, many employers (B&Q, etc) have already been reopening after putting the appropriate measures in place.
In answer to another posters question: I think your boss should be calling you!
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Re: Covid-19
I've not been critical of Boris, or the government, but last night's statement was, poor at best.evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:25 amPrecise dates would have helped, dates which might have helped businesses make re-opening plans and arrangements, however tentative, with something to work towards.
Sure, there'd be the understanding these would be under constant review and could possibly change but it seems to be the complete fog, the uncertainty which is killing some of these businesses off.
It was interesting to hear the views of two business folks from the South West after Johnson's waffle, one a hotel owner from Weston, the other representing trade across that region. Neither of them left-wingers, I assume, but both pretty scathing in their observations.
Hopefully more meat will be put on the bones today
Iam sure businesses will be given more information, if they haven't already.
What the general public can do needs clearing up. As it stands, I think you can drive to a park and meet up with your mum, but couldn't walk round the corner to speak to her on the driveway or in the garden, obviously observing the 2m rule.
Re: Covid-19
The UK did learn, highlighted its acute failings and what needed to be done, following a major exercise,. in 2016.
Then it did nothing....
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Re: Covid-19
Their workplace being closed is what's stopping them, obviously.
Not all businesses that are closed were forced to close by the government. Our company, for example, supplies to the leisure industry so there is no work to do but many of the staff want to come back and think that Johnson was telling them that they should be able to today.
I hear Dominic Raab has changed the advice to going back to work on Wednesday now
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They want to go back, knowing there's nothing to do? And because they think Boris told them they could do?Tall Paul wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:55 amTheir workplace being closed is what's stopping them, obviously.
Not all businesses that are closed were forced to close by the government. Our company, for example, supplies to the leisure industry so there is no work to do but many of the staff want to come back and think that Johnson was telling them that they should be able to.
Where do you get your workforce from?
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Re: Covid-19
If you don’t then meet the precise date then you are condemned for failing to meet your target. Businesses should have already made a number of different contingency plans.evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:25 amPrecise dates would have helped, dates which might have helped businesses make re-opening plans and arrangements, however tentative, with something to work towards.
Sure, there'd be the understanding these would be under constant review and could possibly change but it seems to be the complete fog, the uncertainty which is killing some of these businesses off.
It was interesting to hear the views of two business folks from the South West after Johnson's waffle, one a hotel owner from Weston, the other representing trade across that region. Neither of them left-wingers, I assume, but both pretty scathing in their observations.
The hotel owner should liaise with his trade associations who in turn should be working with the local council and tourism depts to be in the best position to react when there are further announcements in July.
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Johnson must know last night’s announcement has gone down badly as he’s cancelled today’s COVID press conference and replaced it with a q&a session with selected members of the public. Much better to have vetted questions from the public than those nasty journalists when things aren’t going as planned.
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He said in the speech last night that he would be addressing parliamentmartin_p wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:07 amJohnson must know last night’s announcement has gone down badly as he’s cancelled today’s COVID press conference and replaced it with a q&a session with selected members of the public. Much better to have vetted questions from the public than those nasty journalists when things aren’t going as planned.
And taking questions from the public later
So it hasn't been changed.
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Re: Covid-19
Do you know what time?martin_p wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:07 amJohnson must know last night’s announcement has gone down badly as he’s cancelled today’s COVID press conference and replaced it with a q&a session with selected members of the public. Much better to have vetted questions from the public than those nasty journalists when things aren’t going as planned.
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Re: Covid-19
Priti Patel has tweeted it will be at 92 past mid 7 this aftermorning
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Re: Covid-19
BBC still making the same (serious) mistake of quoting numbers of deaths FROM Coronavirus instead of deaths WITH Coronavirus.
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No one knows what time at the moment.
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They all seem minimal interventions though, nothing costing a massive amount.NewClaret wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 10:15 pmLet me tell you what we’ve done then.
- bought some non-invasive thermometers to check people on entry.
- written our own policy on office use, partly based on government advice and partly common sense.
- cleared all desks. People should operate a clear desk policy anyway, but they don’t. This is to aid cleaning, both normal physical cleaning and a new product we’ve bought that fills the office with a fog that deep cleans the office.
- bought the said deep cleaning products.
- arranged with our cleaning contractors to staff up, including the rota/SLA’s, for when we return.
- bought hand sanitiser for each row of desks, wipes for each desk and glove dispensers near touch points (like doors).
- prioritised employee’s for return to work based on need, their own transport arrangements, health conditions, etc. We’ve known for at least a month who would be first back in the office when restrictions were lifted.
It’s not been easy to organise, but we’ve had plenty of time to do it.
Take a factory where social distancing isn't possible with the current layout. Should they be spending significant amounts on moving machines, rerouting walkways, expanding toilets and canteens, etc, at a time when money is likely to be scarce, in the hope that this is suitable. You can understand why some businesses would hold off to see what the plan is going to be before incurring the cost.
Re: Covid-19
Johnson has used the phrase ‘where possible’ to give employers a get out so many won’t bother.aggi wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:37 amThey all seem minimal interventions though, nothing costing a massive amount.
Take a factory where social distancing isn't possible with the current layout. Should they be spending significant amounts on moving machines, rerouting walkways, expanding toilets and canteens, etc, at a time when money is likely to be scarce, in the hope that this is suitable. You can understand why some businesses would hold off to see what the plan is going to be before incurring the cost.
Re: Covid-19
Statement to Parliament will be at 3.30. Not sure when the Q&A session will be (I'm not that interested in seeing Johnson answer some easy win questions).
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Re: Covid-19
I'm no fan of Boris, he's a liar, a chancer and totally unsuitable to be Prime Minister and his cabinet is the most useless bunch of no marks I can remember.
However, there's a worrying trend brought on by the lockdown where everyone is becoming infantilised. We all have a lot of information now about how to avoid spreading the virus. All these endless 'yes but can I play catch in the park with my cousin on a Wednesday?' type questions.. jeez, you've all still got minds.
You don't need every last eventuality spelling out for you. I can work from home so I do. I don't go and see my friends. I don't go to my parents. I go to the shops and take the kids out for exercise. My missus goes to work because she has to but is careful. We all know what we should do. Pretending to be utterly baffled by a fairly simple policy just because your whole day isn't mapped out for you like some primary school child is getting tiresome.
However, there's a worrying trend brought on by the lockdown where everyone is becoming infantilised. We all have a lot of information now about how to avoid spreading the virus. All these endless 'yes but can I play catch in the park with my cousin on a Wednesday?' type questions.. jeez, you've all still got minds.
You don't need every last eventuality spelling out for you. I can work from home so I do. I don't go and see my friends. I don't go to my parents. I go to the shops and take the kids out for exercise. My missus goes to work because she has to but is careful. We all know what we should do. Pretending to be utterly baffled by a fairly simple policy just because your whole day isn't mapped out for you like some primary school child is getting tiresome.
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Re: Covid-19
Corrected that for you.NottsClaret wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:46 amI'm no fan of Boris, he's a liar, a chancer and totally unsuitable to be Prime Minister and his cabinet is the most useless bunch of no marks I can remember.
However, there's a worrying trend brought on by the lockdown where everyone is becoming infantilised. We all have a lot of information now about how to avoid spreading the virus. All these endless 'yes but can I play catch in the park with my cousin on a Wednesday?' type questions.. jeez, you've all got still minds.
You don't need every last eventuality spelling out for you. I can work from home so I do. I don't go and see my friends. I don't go to my parents. I go to the shops and take the kids out for exercise. My missus goes to work because she has to but is careful. We all know what we should do. Pretending to be utterly baffled by a fairly simple policy just because your whole day isn't mapped out for you like some primary school child is getting tiresome.
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Re: Covid-19
NottsClaret wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:46 amI'm no fan of Boris, he's a liar, a chancer and totally unsuitable to be Prime Minister and his cabinet is the most useless bunch of no marks I can remember.
However, there's a worrying trend brought on by the lockdown where everyone is becoming infantilised. We all have a lot of information now about how to avoid spreading the virus. All these endless 'yes but can I play catch in the park with my cousin on a Wednesday?' type questions.. jeez, you've all still got minds.
You don't need every last eventuality spelling out for you. I can work from home so I do. I don't go and see my friends. I don't go to my parents. I go to the shops and take the kids out for exercise. My missus goes to work because she has to but is careful. We all know what we should do. Pretending to be utterly baffled by a fairly simple policy just because your whole day isn't mapped out for you like some primary school child is getting tiresome.
Really isn't as hard to work out as some are making it. By the end of this we are going to be left with even more people who need their hand holding through life. Tiresome is the perfect word for it.
Re: Covid-19
It amazes me that people can wipe their backsides without being told when, where, who can be with you, how often.......
Re: Covid-19
From my understanding of the extent of relaxation of lockdown restrictions I think Boris Johnson has got this about correct....and “Boris Johnson” and “correct” are not words I have used in the same sentence very often.
I do think there is confusion - and ministers talking this morning don’t seem too sure themselves. I think it will be a lot clearer by the end of today and I also think that irrespective of the specific measures announced the overall feeling of little change for the next 3 or 4 weeks seems the most sensible approach given the amount of new cases still emerging every day and how we are still early in our understanding of the virus.
I am not sure why the government decided to communicate this in the way it did.
It was due on Thursday - I’m guessing he wanted to avoid a bank holiday situation but that did not work anyway.
Sunday evenings video message was pretty vague and generic.
And then they start to brief media outlets with a few titbits / specifics - just led to more confusion.
Monday - government ministers discussing it across media outlets...still vague and inconsistent.
Monday afternoon - specifics to be released with detail.
Why did they not just issue the detail with the message ? That could have happened anytime between Thursday and this afternoon...
Or even release the detail before - give people time to digest, get questions ready etc and give the high level summary / context and rationale afterwards.
I do think there is confusion - and ministers talking this morning don’t seem too sure themselves. I think it will be a lot clearer by the end of today and I also think that irrespective of the specific measures announced the overall feeling of little change for the next 3 or 4 weeks seems the most sensible approach given the amount of new cases still emerging every day and how we are still early in our understanding of the virus.
I am not sure why the government decided to communicate this in the way it did.
It was due on Thursday - I’m guessing he wanted to avoid a bank holiday situation but that did not work anyway.
Sunday evenings video message was pretty vague and generic.
And then they start to brief media outlets with a few titbits / specifics - just led to more confusion.
Monday - government ministers discussing it across media outlets...still vague and inconsistent.
Monday afternoon - specifics to be released with detail.
Why did they not just issue the detail with the message ? That could have happened anytime between Thursday and this afternoon...
Or even release the detail before - give people time to digest, get questions ready etc and give the high level summary / context and rationale afterwards.
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Re: Covid-19
Has the dick measuring contest above finished now?
The government have changed their minds three times this morning already about meeting up with family. Asking for some clarity on that has now suddenly turned into some weird ‘you need to be told what to do’ diatribe.
The government have changed their minds three times this morning already about meeting up with family. Asking for some clarity on that has now suddenly turned into some weird ‘you need to be told what to do’ diatribe.
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Re: Covid-19
Even the Sun are going with the story of utter confusion from the government this morning.
Whether you like it or not, the communication has gone tits up again.
Whether you like it or not, the communication has gone tits up again.
Re: Covid-19
My favourite is when they compare people needing clarity over the Coronavirus, a pathogen that has killed 31,000 people in the UK and counting, with needing clarity on things like getting dressed in the morning or crossing a road.Swizzlestick wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 11:10 amHas the dick measuring contest above finished now?
The government have changed their minds three times this morning already about meeting up with family. Asking for some clarity on that has now suddenly turned into some weird ‘you need to be told what to do’ diatribe.
They then imply other people are stupid. You couldn’t make it up.
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Re: Covid-19
Funny how a lot of people who were saying they don’t need their hand holding and everything was crystal clear are the same ones who make up their own interpretation of lockdown rules.
How many times have you heard “I can decide for myself how many times I go out as long as I socially distance etc” ?
How many times have you heard “I can decide for myself how many times I go out as long as I socially distance etc” ?
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Re: Covid-19
Things would have been so different with Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Long Bailey at the helm
Re: Covid-19
2 metre distancing on public transport is obviously impossible. Reducing down to 1 metre and making face coverings compulsory is imo the only possible solution. Buses, trains, tubes etc will need to limit the number of passengers they carry at any one time (good luck with that!).
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Re: Covid-19
If they can't communicate clearly and keep having to go back on or clarify points you have to assume they don't have a clue what they're doing in the first place.