Covid-19

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cblantfanclub
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Re: Covid-19

Post by cblantfanclub » Sat May 23, 2020 3:34 pm

"New Claret"

"If he drove directly without stopping, I can’t see the risk?"

And if he'd had an accident or broken down - he was obviously prepared to put all these people at risk - luckily.......

tiger76
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Re: Covid-19

Post by tiger76 » Sat May 23, 2020 3:36 pm

Wow! this news really puts into perspective how lethal this virus can be for a small number of people.

12-year-old among latest coronavirus deaths

NHS England has announced 157 more deaths of people who tested positive for coronavirus.

Among the latest deaths announced was a 12-year-old with underlying health conditions.The youngest death to be announced by NHS England was a six-week-old baby.

It brings the total number of confirmed reported deaths in hospitals in England to 25,545. The deaths occurred between 1 and 22 May, except three which were in April.*

A further six deaths have been announced by Public Health Wales on Saturday. A total of 1,260 people have died with coronavirus in Wales.

A further 16 people have died as a result of Covid-19 in Scotland taking the total to 2,261.

We should be hearing a UK-wide figure later.

*NHS England releases updated figures each day showing the dates of every coronavirus-related death in hospitals, often including previously uncounted deaths that took place several days or even weeks ago.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by jrgbfc » Sat May 23, 2020 3:44 pm

I'm guessing the PM will be hiding in a fridge somewhere until he has to face Starmer at PMQs again. He should have the guts to come and do the press briefing today.

tiger76
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Re: Covid-19

Post by tiger76 » Sat May 23, 2020 3:45 pm

This is the danger

Analysis: Who knew what about Cummings?

An explanation has now been given by Downing Street for Dominic Cummings's trip - but questions remain.

In Westminster, they're likely to revolve around who exactly in No 10 knew what, and when.

In the rest of the country though, they may well be "if it's ‘reasonable and legal' for Dominic Cummings to do it, why shouldn't I?"

That could become a concern for the government as it tries to keep people strictly observing all of the rules.

For now though, cabinet ministers appear to be backing Cummings, suggesting his actions were taken with the understandable motivation of a caring father.

But, as we move towards the nine-week mark of lockdown, there will be many other caring parents who have found themselves in similar situations - and did they feel they could do the same?

We're all in this together are we?i don't think so.

CombatClaret
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Re: Covid-19

Post by CombatClaret » Sat May 23, 2020 3:46 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:44 pm
I'm guessing the PM will be hiding in a fridge somewhere until he has to face Starmer at PMQs again. He should have the guts to come and do the press briefing today.
If only there was some evidence (aside from his entire life) of ducking truth, responsibility & accountability.

Bordeauxclaret
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sat May 23, 2020 3:47 pm

If anyone was in any doubt as to how much power Cummings holds in this government.

You’ve even got the Attorney General supporting his actions.

tiger76
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Re: Covid-19

Post by tiger76 » Sat May 23, 2020 3:48 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:44 pm
I'm guessing the PM will be hiding in a fridge somewhere until he has to face Starmer at PMQs again. He should have the guts to come and do the press briefing today.
Exactly! if he feels Dominic Cummings hasn't breached the guidelines then come out and defend him in public.

The very fact that he can't or won't is telling in itself.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sat May 23, 2020 3:48 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:20 pm
In general, I’d say losing your job is a hard price to pay in all cases. I think we’re generally too expectant of “public figures” and we should remember they are all just human beings, trying to do the best job they can to provide for themselves/their family - they’re not perfect and nor should we expect them to be.

In order, I’d say Ferguson was worst, then Calderwood, then Cummings. The first two warranted an apology, not so sure about Cummings.
Neither Ferguson or Calderwood were knowingly infected.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sat May 23, 2020 3:51 pm

Attorney General now tweeting defending him. He really has a hold over this lot!

CombatClaret
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Re: Covid-19

Post by CombatClaret » Sat May 23, 2020 3:54 pm

Disgusting to see them all line up and essentially say 'It's different when one of us does it'.

FactualFrank
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Re: Covid-19

Post by FactualFrank » Sat May 23, 2020 3:57 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:44 pm
I'm guessing the PM will be hiding in a fridge somewhere until he has to face Starmer at PMQs again. He should have the guts to come and do the press briefing today.
Are you still two metres apart if someone is in one of the fridges?

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tiger76
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Re: Covid-19

Post by tiger76 » Sat May 23, 2020 3:57 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:48 pm
Neither Ferguson or Calderwood were knowingly infected.
At least Ferguson and Calderwood had the grace to realise their mistakes and offer their resignations.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by keith1879 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:01 pm

There is no point at all in engaging with Ringo (sorry "Newclaret") on this (or any) topoic.

tiger76
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Re: Covid-19

Post by tiger76 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:06 pm

keith1879 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:01 pm
There is no point at all in engaging with Ringo (sorry "Newclaret") on this (or any) topoic.
What's notable is that it's not just Labour supporters calling for his head many Conservatives including myself think he needs to go.

The government's already rapidly losing the confidence of the public due to the shambolic announcement by the PM,and this will only add to that mistrust.

NewClaret
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Re: Covid-19

Post by NewClaret » Sat May 23, 2020 4:06 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:48 pm
Neither Ferguson or Calderwood were knowingly infected.
Ferguson mixed with someone outside his family.

Calderwood made multiple, unnecessary trips to her second home.

You could argue that Cummings’ trip was necessary, under the circumstances, and the actions of a responsible parent. I think I’d do the same under the circumstances.

I’ll change my opinion if there’s some footage of him at a filling station, etc.

NewClaret
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Re: Covid-19

Post by NewClaret » Sat May 23, 2020 4:08 pm

keith1879 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:01 pm
There is no point at all in engaging with Ringo (sorry "Newclaret") on this (or any) topoic.
:lol: :lol:

I’m definitely not Ringo, sorry to disappoint.

jrgbfc
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Re: Covid-19

Post by jrgbfc » Sat May 23, 2020 4:08 pm

No way he'll resign, and I don't see him being sacked, he's got too much power. The only way to get rid of him is at the ballot box, unfortunately it looks like we'll have to wait another 4 years

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Re: Covid-19

Post by NewClaret » Sat May 23, 2020 4:11 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:06 pm
What's notable is that it's not just Labour supporters calling for his head many Conservatives including myself think he needs to go.

The government's already rapidly losing the confidence of the public due to the shambolic announcement by the PM,and this will only add to that mistrust.
Have said before tiger, I get the impression he’s disliked as much, possibly more, by the senior Tories given his obvious level of influence. The old boys won’t like it.

NewClaret
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Re: Covid-19

Post by NewClaret » Sat May 23, 2020 4:22 pm

cblantfanclub wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:34 pm
"New Claret"

"If he drove directly without stopping, I can’t see the risk?"

And if he'd had an accident or broken down - he was obviously prepared to put all these people at risk - luckily.......
My point is:

Did he act lawfully? As I understand it, that answer is yes.

Then you have to ask if he acted reasonably. My view is yes.

You can think of a hundred “what if’s” - how many cars actually break down road side?

NewClaret
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Re: Covid-19

Post by NewClaret » Sat May 23, 2020 4:25 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:31 pm
NewClaret, you really are defending the indefensible here. Makes you look like a Tory Party apparatchik.
Very sad that you can’t express an opposing opinion without being subjected to insults.

tiger76
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Re: Covid-19

Post by tiger76 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:27 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:08 pm
No way he'll resign, and I don't see him being sacked, he's got too much power. The only way to get rid of him is at the ballot box, unfortunately it looks like we'll have to wait another 4 years
AH! yes remind me again what seat's he been elected for,i can't seem to find him in the constituency list.

Granny WeatherWax
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Sat May 23, 2020 4:29 pm

I felt sorry for Shapps for a moment, then I realised he’s a Tory still trying to spin this utter nonsense.

The government are a disgrace, hold your hands up and admit it was wrong.

They’ve got blood on their hands by not doing so.

keith1879
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Re: Covid-19

Post by keith1879 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:29 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:45 pm
This is the danger

Analysis: Who knew what about Cummings?

An explanation has now been given by Downing Street for Dominic Cummings's trip - but questions remain.

In Westminster, they're likely to revolve around who exactly in No 10 knew what, and when.

In the rest of the country though, they may well be "if it's ‘reasonable and legal' for Dominic Cummings to do it, why shouldn't I?"

That could become a concern for the government as it tries to keep people strictly observing all of the rules.

For now though, cabinet ministers appear to be backing Cummings, suggesting his actions were taken with the understandable motivation of a caring father.

But, as we move towards the nine-week mark of lockdown, there will be many other caring parents who have found themselves in similar situations - and did they feel they could do the same?

We're all in this together are we?i don't think so.
Exactly so....the more they defend him the more they undermine the message

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Re: Covid-19

Post by bfcjg » Sat May 23, 2020 4:29 pm

They wont sack him until it's political suicide to keep him, as the saying goes " he knows where the bodies are buried "

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Re: Covid-19

Post by keith1879 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:30 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:08 pm
:lol: :lol:

I’m definitely not Ringo, sorry to disappoint.
It is disappointing to think that there are two of you :D :) :) :D

tiger76
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Re: Covid-19

Post by tiger76 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:31 pm

I'm not going to post the slides don't understand them but the overall fall in deaths is to be welcomed.

As is the fall in intensive care usage.And the slowing in new cases.

Harries: 12% of ventilator beds used by Covid-19 patients

Harries says across all of the UK, demand for mechanical ventilator beds in hospitals has come down.

She says that 12% of such beds are occupied with Covid-19 patients - meaning there is now "significant capacity" available.

Harries: Deaths continuing to come down

Harries says the rise in UK deaths of 282 brings the total to 36,675. She says that a positive note from that number is that deaths are starting to come down and that, over a rolling seven-day average, it is continuing to come down.

"We will be looking to expect that to come down further," she adds.

Harries: Downward trend in new cases continues

Harries says there were 2,959 confirmed coronavirus cases in the 24 hours to 09:00 BST on Saturday.

It takes the total confirmed cases in the UK to 257,154.

She says that - encouragingly - the country is maintaining a downward trend in new confirmed cases.
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sat May 23, 2020 4:31 pm

The mantra seems to be say ‘4 year old’ and ‘safeguarding a lot and all this will go away!

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Re: Covid-19

Post by ksrclaret » Sat May 23, 2020 4:33 pm

Seeing that Shapps bloke being thrown to the lions is cringe worthy.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Sat May 23, 2020 4:35 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:31 pm
The mantra seems to be say ‘4 year old’ and ‘safeguarding a lot and all this will go away!
It’s utterly ridiculous, negligent, dishonest, corrupt etc etc

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Re: Covid-19

Post by tiger76 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:35 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:29 pm
They wont sack him until it's political suicide to keep him, as the saying goes " he knows where the bodies are buried "
He's definitely got a hold over this government whatever he knows it must be explosive.

I'm not sure your phrase is appropriate in the circumstances,but i accept your general point.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by CombatClaret » Sat May 23, 2020 4:38 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:31 pm
The mantra seems to be say ‘4 year old’ and ‘safeguarding a lot and all this will go away!
Examples of Safeguarding Harries gives: Elderly vulnerable people unable to get medicine or a child is significantly unwell and has no support.

Well neither of those were the case.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by keith1879 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:38 pm

Every question so far (including from the telegraph) on the Cummings issue. If they don't dump him the lockdown is undermined beyond repair I would say.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by CombatClaret » Sat May 23, 2020 4:41 pm

What would you do Shapps asks..?
So people who obeyed the rules didn't love or worry about their children enough?

Just like the people who died didn't fight or have the strength of character like the PM.
Last edited by CombatClaret on Sat May 23, 2020 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NewClaret
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Re: Covid-19

Post by NewClaret » Sat May 23, 2020 4:41 pm

keith1879 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:30 pm
It is disappointing to think that there are two of you :D :) :) :D
There’s 14m of me, I’m afraid Keith. That’s what got us in to this mess ;)

Sure your compliment will make Ringo’s day though :D

tiger76
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Re: Covid-19

Post by tiger76 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:45 pm

I'm confused here maybe it's just me but how has Dominic Cummings adhered to the rules.

What was the official advice when Dominic Cummings made his trip?

Boris Johnson’s top aide has defended making a 260-mile journey from London to north-east England with his family during lockdown at the end of March.

Dominic Cummings says he did the "right thing" to be near relatives. His wife had coronavirus symptoms, and Downing Street says he wanted to ensure he had childcare if he got sick too.

The UK Government advice on essential travel at the time, which still remains in place, includes:

- Not visiting second homes, whether for isolation purposes or holidays

- Not leaving your home, the place you live, to stay at another home

- Remaining at your primary residence, to avoid putting additional pressure on communities and services at risk


I thought if anyone in your household was showing symptoms they were supposed to self-isolate for 7 days at least.

Surely if his wife had symptoms it was reckless to drive her to a relations anyway,as it could be exposing them to the virus as well.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by keith1879 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:46 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:41 pm
What would you do Shapps asks..?
So people who obeyed the rules didn't love or worry about their children enough?

Just like the people who died didn't fight or have the strength of character like the PM.
Spot on.....don't bother staying home if you have the slightest excuse..

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Grumps » Sat May 23, 2020 4:47 pm

Iam glad a lot of the posters on here are not parents

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Re: Covid-19

Post by ksrclaret » Sat May 23, 2020 4:48 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:45 pm
I'm confused here maybe it's just me but how has Dominic Cummings adhered to the rules.
I can answer that. He hasn't. The government are lying again.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by taio » Sat May 23, 2020 4:50 pm

What's the point on travelling 260 miles to be near family - how could they provide child care without risk of catching and spreading the virus?
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taio
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Re: Covid-19

Post by taio » Sat May 23, 2020 4:50 pm

Grumps wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:47 pm
Iam glad a lot of the posters on here are not parents
Why, what do you mean?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat May 23, 2020 4:53 pm

Lets remember his wifes family live 10 miles away in London. Why would you not use your strong local network of family and friends rather than travelling the length of the country to be with a different network of family and friends

There was absolutely no risk to child being left without support had they stayed in London
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Re: Covid-19

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat May 23, 2020 4:53 pm

Frightening level of arrogance being displayed by Cummings and inexcusable defence of him by the government.

Why not just hold his hands up, admit he made a mistake and offer a humble and grovelling (although probably insincere) apology. Much less damaging on the long run.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Sat May 23, 2020 4:54 pm

Grumps wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:47 pm
Iam glad a lot of the posters on here are not parents

What are you on about?

Don’t you get what’s happening here?

Basically every single parent now who becomes symptomatic has the green light to leave the house and potentially spread the disease through society.

It’s an utter ludicrous situation and flys in the face of the previous messaging from public health England
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Re: Covid-19

Post by CombatClaret » Sat May 23, 2020 4:55 pm

Grumps wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:47 pm
Iam glad a lot of the posters on here are not parents
"Everyone in your household must stay at home if one of you shows symptoms" - Obey = not a good parent.

"If you think you MIGHT fall ill because one of you has symptoms, travel as far as you want to be near friends and family." = Good parent

Grumps up to his usual slavish best to defend anything coming out of No10.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Somethingfishy » Sat May 23, 2020 4:56 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:25 pm
Very sad that you can’t express an opposing opinion without being subjected to insults.
Isn't that the general way of the liberal left these days? Politics in this country is utterly toxic at present.

I'm no Cummings fan..far from it and a large part of me wants to see him go but in this case i think he did what he thought as a father would be for the best. Moved his family group in a private car to another private house where he locked down with outside support from his family in case they were needed to help with his child. If he decided to get out for a Ginsters or a McDs at a service station then that would be an entirely different situation. No evidence he did. Lets not kid ourselves here this is more about political point scoring and his opponents seeking blood rather than caring about the nations health.
It is nothing more than a witch hunt. It may have a positive outcome though.
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Re: Covid-19

Post by ksrclaret » Sat May 23, 2020 4:56 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:55 pm
"Everyone in your household must stay at home if one of you shows symptoms" - Obey = not a good parent.

"If you think you MIGHT fall ill because one of you has symptoms, travel as far as you want to be near friends and family." = Good parent

Grumps up to his usual slavish best to defend anything coming out of No10.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This country is f-u-cked.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat May 23, 2020 4:58 pm

Somethingfishy wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:56 pm
Isn't that the general way of the liberal left these days? Politics in this country is utterly toxic at present.

I'm no Cummings fan..far from it and a large part of me wants to see him go but in this case i think he did what he thought as a father would be for the best. Moved his family group in a private car to another private house where he locked down with outside support from his family in case they were needed to help with his child. If he decided to get out for a Ginsters or a McDs at a service station then that would be an entirely different situation. No evidence he did. Lets not kid ourselves here this is more about political point scoring and his opponents seeking blood rather than caring about the nations health.
It is nothing more than a witch hunt. It may have a positive outcome though.
Family lived 10 miles away in London

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Re: Covid-19

Post by jackmiggins » Sat May 23, 2020 4:59 pm

Hopefully a parent has enough compassion for every other parent to not act in such a selfish manner!!!

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Pimlico_Claret » Sat May 23, 2020 5:01 pm

Obviously not too friendly with his brother in law then, who lives in London.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by tiger76 » Sat May 23, 2020 5:01 pm

The dreaded Vote of confidence in football speak that means he'll be out the door in a week or two.

Shapps: Cummings has PM's full support

A Sun on Sunday journalist says there have already been two resignations from officials who have "broken the rules", so ask what is different for Dominic Cummings.

Grant Shapps says: "What most people will be thinking is, 'what would I do in that situation?'

"I have a young child, my wife is unwell, I am worried about ability to support child as father."

Comparing the senior aide to others who have resigned, Shapps adds: "This wasn't visiting a holiday home or going to visit someone.

"This was to stay put and remain in isolation to deal with what I hear was a significant bout of coronavirus and then return to London only when well.

"There is every difference."

He is asked again whether the PM knew of Cummings' whereabouts, and said: "The prime minister knew that he was quite properly staying put in one place with his family, which is the right thing to do.

"The prime minister gives Mr Cummings his full support."

How the heck is travelling from London to Durham staying in one place,they just keep digging don't they.

I see why Boris was a no-show.

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