Covid-19

[jackmiggins]

Cummings must be goings - end of.

[taio]

Isn't that the general way of the liberal left these days? Politics in this country is utterly toxic at present.

I'm no Cummings fan..far from it and a large part of me wants to see him go but in this case i think he did what he thought as a father would be for the best. Moved his family group in a private car to another private house where he locked down with outside support from his family in case they were needed to help with his child. If he decided to get out for a Ginsters or a McDs at a service station then that would be an entirely different situation. No evidence he did. Lets not kid ourselves here this is more about political point scoring and his opponents seeking blood rather than caring about the nations health.
It is nothing more than a witch hunt. It may have a positive outcome though.

Can you answer this question I posted a few minutes ago:

What's the point on travelling 260 miles to be near family - how could they provide child care without risk of catching and spreading the virus?

It's a genuine question and I'm not trying to be a smart arse - haven't seen this covered elsewhere so I've probably got the wrong end of the stick.

[Grumps]

What are you on about?

Don’t you get what’s happening here?

Basically every single parent now who becomes symptomatic has the green light to leave the house and potentially spread the disease through society.

It’s an utter ludicrous situation and flys in the face of the previous messaging from public health England

I suggest you read the exact piece in the government guidance in relation to looking after children where people are isolating in the household

[fatboy47]

Johnson will be rinsed at the next PMQs by Starmer if Cummings isnt sacked.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Presumably there is a family feud with his wife’s brother who lives in London?

[TheFamilyCat]

Johnson will be rinsed at the next PMQs by Starmer if Cummings isnt sacked.

Johnson will be rinsed at the next PMQs by Starmer if Cummings is sacked.

[Grumps]

"Everyone in your household must stay at home if one of you shows symptoms" - Obey = not a good parent.

"If you think you MIGHT fall ill because one of you has symptoms, travel as far as you want to be near friends and family." = Good parent

Grumps up to his usual slavish best to defend anything coming out of No10.

Read my previous posts, I've clearly said he should be sacked if he's broken the guidelines

If you read them, specifically the part regarding children, then you'll see there is an argument that what he did wasn't against the guidelines

Or you could just do what you and others are doing, it's someone who's not well liked, just sack him.

[Somethingfishy]

Can you answer this question I posted a few minutes ago:

What's the point on travelling 260 miles to be near family - how could they provide child care without risk of catching and spreading the virus?

It's a genuine question and I'm not trying to be a smart arse - haven't seen this covered elsewhere so I've probably got the wrong end of the stick.

I presume to provide food and medicine if both parents are unable to leave the house having the virus. The questions arise on whether he didnt trust his neighbours to help and even his brother in law. He obviously decided to trust his Durham family. Nobody knows the ins and outs of his family life. He hasn't broken the guidelines if you take the common sense to safeguarding into account. Jenny Harries was quite clear in this.
As i said it is nothing more than his opponents sniffing blood. I wouldn't be too disappointed if he got the boot or resigned. Just seems a harsh way to do it.

[taio]

I presume to provide food and medicine if both parents are unable to leave the house having the virus. The questions arise on whether he didnt trust his neighbours to help and even his brother in law. He obviously decided to trust his Durham family. Nobody knows the ins and outs of his family life. He hasn't broken the guidelines if you take the common sense to safeguarding into account. Jenny Harries was quite clear in this.
As i said it is nothing more than his opponents sniffing blood. I wouldn't be too disappointed if he got the boot or resigned. Just seems a harsh way to do it.

Cummings will be well aware that there are community hubs throughout the country providing food and medicines where people cannot get those supplies themselves.

[jackmiggins]

‘Do not leave home if you, or anyone in your household shows symptoms’. Seems pretty clear to me - where is there any possible loophole in this???

[Devils_Advocate]

I presume to provide food and medicine if both parents are unable to leave the house having the virus. The questions arise on whether he didnt trust his neighbours to help and even his brother in law. He obviously decided to trust his Durham family. Nobody knows the ins and outs of his family life. He hasn't broken the guidelines if you take the common sense to safeguarding into account. Jenny Harries was quite clear in this.
As i said it is nothing more than his opponents sniffing blood. I wouldn't be too disappointed if he got the boot or resigned. Just seems a harsh way to do it.

They are two of the most well connected people in London so again the idea they needed to go to Durham to get support and that not to do so posed a serious risk to life for the child is just absurd

[CombatClaret]

I suggest you read the exact piece in the government guidance in relation to looking after children where people are isolating in the household

Seems a strong case he breached regulation 6 of the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 as they stood at the time.
The defense used by Cummings was that he had a reasonable excuse (not listed). This then leads to the question was no childcare available closer that 250 miles away, answer yes there probably was given proximity of other family and other resources. And since he was not showing symptoms at the time why could he not provide the childcare while his wife self isolated in their home.

Also if it was reasonable given his prominent role, why didn’t he open up about it before being forced to? This includes several articles and radio interviews from him and his wife as well as Downing Street statement all saying that Cummings was quaranted in London. If it’s “reasonable” why go to great lengths to hide it?

EYs3s4VWAAAQXpk.jpg (208.36 KiB) Viewed 2575 times

[keith1879]

Let's look at the current guidance. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -infection

At the point where they drove to Durham our understanding is that his wife was ill but he wasn't. So Dominic should have been looking at this

"if you live with others and you are the first in the household to have symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19), then you must stay at home for at least 7 days, but all other household members who remain well must stay at home and not leave the house for 14 days. The 14-day period starts from the day when the first person in the house became ill."

So his wife had to stay home for 7 days and he had to for 14.

His defence has to be the following paragraph.

"If you are living with children

Keep following this advice to the best of your ability, however, we are aware that not all these measures will be possible.

What we have seen so far is that children with coronavirus (COVID-19) appear to be less severely affected. It is nevertheless important to do your best to follow this guidance."

Given that he personally was not ill when they set off then I really don't see how he was doing his best to follow the guidance. (Conversely if he was ill then why was he setting off on such a long drive).

[Grumps]

Seems a strong case he breached regulation 6 of the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 as they stood at the time.
The defense used by Cummings was that he had a reasonable excuse (not listed). This then leads to the question was no childcare available closer that 250 miles away, answer yes there probably was given proximity of other family and other resources. And since he was not showing symptoms at the time why could he not provide the childcare while his wife self isolated in their home.

Also if it was reasonable given his prominent role, why didn’t he open up about it before being forced to? This includes several articles and radio interviews from him and his wife as well as Downing Street statement all saying that Cummings was quaranted in London. If it’s “reasonable” why go to great lengths to hide it?

EYs3s4VWAAAQXpk.jpg

And if you read the official gov advice, on self isolating, after it tells you what you cannot do, there's the bit about children, which states not all these rules can be abided by.
How do you possibly know who was available closer to home, and even if there was, what their commitments were that might not have allowed looking after a 4yr old.
If he'd stayed at home, and both parents became so ill, their 4yr old year child could not be looked after, what would have happened then, taken into care?

Anything that's happened, or not happened since is a different matter.

[Blackrod]

Needs to go if the government want to preserve credibility with what they are telling people to do.

[nyclaret]

And if you read the official gov advice, on self isolating, after it tells you what you cannot do, there's the bit about children, which states not all these rules can be abided by.
How do you possibly know who was available closer to home, and even if there was, what their commitments were that might not have allowed looking after a 4yr old.
If he'd stayed at home, and both parents became so ill, their 4yr old year child could not be looked after, what would have happened then, taken into care?

Anything that's happened, or not happened since is a different matter.

Became so ill that they could travel to Durham?

[keith1879]

And if you read the official gov advice, on self isolating, after it tells you what you cannot do, there's the bit about children, which states not all these rules can be abided by.
How do you possibly know who was available closer to home, and even if there was, what their commitments were that might not have allowed looking after a 4yr old.
If he'd stayed at home, and both parents became so ill, their 4yr old year child could not be looked after, what would have happened then, taken into care?

Anything that's happened, or not happened since is a different matter.

"It is nevertheless important to do your best to follow this guidance."

His wife was ill, he wasn't. Was he doing his best to follow the guidance? I would say not.

[Grumps]

Became so ill that they could travel to Durham?

Not sure what you're saying, but the could both have been hospitalised, very quickly looking at others. So he was protecting his child,not a bad thing to do

If it turns out he was doing something else then deal with him accordingly

[CombatClaret]

And if you read the official gov advice, on self isolating, after it tells you what you cannot do, there's the bit about children, which states not all these rules can be abided by.

Guidance was also clear as laid out by Keith above. As Cummings was not showing symptons at the time he could have perfectly easily have followed the advice already given and stayed put.

Also guidance is just that, the above was regulation which effectively has the same force as law. So the guidance should be followed within those regulations set out. There was nothing in the guidance about being allowed to breach regulations.

[jackmiggins]

Not sure what you're saying, but the could both have been hospitalised, very quickly looking at others. So he was protecting his child,not a bad thing to do

If it turns out he was doing something else then deal with him accordingly

You’re particularly grumpy today - chill (as I’m usually advised by the minions).

[Grumps]

"It is nevertheless important to do your best to follow this guidance."

His wife was ill, he wasn't. Was he doing his best to follow the guidance? I would say not.

If he's telling the truth, he was protecting his son in case he did get ill.
I don't have a problem with that, even if it's pushing the boundaries of the advice, I would do whatever it took to protect my 4yr old in those circumstances. Sorry if that offends

[CombatClaret]

If he's telling the truth, he was protecting his son in case he did get ill.
I don't have a problem with that, even if it's pushing the boundaries of the advice, I would do whatever it took to protect my 4yr old in those circumstances. Sorry if that offends

So you've gone from, 'he was obeying the rules' to, 'I've got no problem morally if he broke them'.
It was quite clear you were just flailing to defend him whatever, I just want to be clear on the u-turn.

[NewClaret]

Isn't that the general way of the liberal left these days? Politics in this country is utterly toxic at present.

I'm no Cummings fan..far from it and a large part of me wants to see him go but in this case i think he did what he thought as a father would be for the best. Moved his family group in a private car to another private house where he locked down with outside support from his family in case they were needed to help with his child. If he decided to get out for a Ginsters or a McDs at a service station then that would be an entirely different situation. No evidence he did. Lets not kid ourselves here this is more about political point scoring and his opponents seeking blood rather than caring about the nations health.
It is nothing more than a witch hunt. It may have a positive outcome though.

Precisely, Somethingfishy.

[jackmiggins]

If he's telling the truth, he was protecting his son in case he did get ill.
I don't have a problem with that, even if it's pushing the boundaries of the advice, I would do whatever it took to protect my 4yr old in those circumstances. Sorry if that offends

But he either took his child (possibly infected) to his elderly parents, or to another house to, again, be isolated with him and his wife. I’m afraid any argument is indefensible.

[TheFamilyCat]

If he's telling the truth, he was protecting his son in case he did get ill.
I don't have a problem with that, even if it's pushing the boundaries of the advice, I would do whatever it took to protect my 4yr old in those circumstances. Sorry if that offends

A better way to protect his son would have been to isolate him from his ill wife, not stick them in a confined space together for 5-6 hours.

[Grumps]

So you've gone from, 'he was obeying the rules' to, 'I've got no problem morally if he broke them'.
It was quite clear you were just flailing to defend him whatever, I just want to be clear on the u-turn.

I've never said that.. I've always pointed out the advice which allows someone to do what he did, even if it's the boundary of said advice

[taio]

A better way to protect his son would have been to isolate him from his ill wife, not stick them in a confined space together for 5-6 hours.

Exactly. If they needed child care support it should have come to them. In fact putting a child in a car for 6 hours with someone who has symptoms of Covid could be seen as a potential safeguarding issue.

[joey13]

Not sure what you're saying, but the could both have been hospitalised, very quickly looking at others. So he was protecting his child,not a bad thing to do

If it turns out he was doing something else then deal with him accordingly

Was he protecting his child ?

[BurningBeard]

If he'd been stopped and questioned by police within the first, let's say, 100 miles of this journey, do we think they'd have turned him round and sent him home? I'm going with yes.

[Grumps]

But he either took his child (possibly infected) to his elderly parents, or to another house to, again, be isolated with him and his wife. I’m afraid any argument is indefensible.

To a house where he and his wife and son could self isolate, close to his sister and niece, both younger, who could assist with childcare. Not to a house occupied by anyone else

I've no great feeling towards Cummings, but I like the truth, not made up stories
Like I said before, and after this iam off, if he broke the rules, sack him, no problem. But like I said hours ago, there is a get out of jail card within the advice, which the secretary of state referred to in his briefing.

[Grumps]

Was he protecting his child ?

Had both parents become ill and unable to look after him, yes he was......

[taio]

To a house where he and his wife and son could self isolate, close to his sister and niece, both younger, who could assist with childcare. Not to a house occupied by anyone else

I've no great feeling towards Cummings, but I like the truth, not made up stories
Like I said before, and after this iam off, if he broke the rules, sack him, no problem. But like I said hours ago, there is a get out of jail card within the advice, which the secretary of state referred to in his briefing.

Only someone with blind loyalty to the government would think the rules cover the circumstances as reported.

[jackmiggins]

To a house where he and his wife and son could self isolate, close to his sister and niece, both younger, who could assist with childcare. Not to a house occupied by anyone else

I've no great feeling towards Cummings, but I like the truth, not made up stories
Like I said before, and after this iam off, if he broke the rules, sack him, no problem. But like I said hours ago, there is a get out of jail card within the advice, which the secretary of state referred to in his briefing.

Taking a child that is probably infected to his Sister’s house, with Niece??? Get real.

[taio]

Had both parents become ill and unable to look after him, yes he was......

Putting a child in a car for six hours with someone who is symptomatic isn't protective.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

The Spectator who employ his wife have published an article saying he must go. See how the Sunday Mail view it tomorrow.

[Grumps]

Taking a child that is probably infected to his Sister’s house, with Niece??? Get real.

Another, separate house, just the 3 of them.... Sorry if it wasn't clear enough.

[cblantfanclub]

Can't make his wife's account on R4 fit his story at all. Perhaps Grumps can explain the exact timeline of the story and why he was in close proximity to his child whilst in bed collapsed receiving Ribvena drinks from him ?

[Grumps]

Putting a child in a car for six hours with someone who is symptomatic isn't protective.

As the CMO said at the briefing, no more risk than staying at home with them, which is what you wanted them to do.

[BurningBeard]

The Spectator who employ his wife have published an article saying he must go. See how the Sunday Mail view it tomorrow.

She could find herself out of that gig if it transpires she's been telling porkies or economical with the truth in their name.

[Grumps]

Can't make his wife's account on R4 fit his story at all. Perhaps Grumps can explain the exact timeline of the story and why he was in close proximity to his child whilst in bed collapsed receiving Ribvena drinks from him ?

Wouldn't know, haven't heard it.... But what I've said many times, if the story isn't the truth, and he broke the rules..... Sack him!!!!

[joey13]

Had both parents become ill and unable to look after him, yes he was......

Surely his son should have been kept apart from his wife ?

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

She could find herself out of that gig if it transpires she's been telling porkies or economical with the truth in their name.

Or the editor could if he knew they’d been to Durham and published her article a few weeks ago which failed to mention that part!

[taio]

As the CMO said at the briefing, no more risk than staying at home with them, which is what you wanted them to do.

What did you hear Jenny Harries specifically say? From what I heard she made a point of not commenting on the specific case of Cummings.

[jackmiggins]

Another, separate house, just the 3 of them.... Sorry if it wasn't clear enough.

Totally clear, but you’re getting confoduddled by your own interpretation AGAIN.

[jackmiggins]

What did you hear Jenny Harries specifically say? From what I heard she made a point of not commenting on the specific case of Cummings.

She attempted to shimmy, very uncomfortably.

[FactualFrank]

I refuse to think Dominic Cummings has done anything wrong, unless it turns out that his parents’ farm is a donkey sanctuary worth £10m.

[tiger76]

I refuse to think Dominic Cummings has done anything wrong, unless it turns out that his parents’ farm is a donkey sanctuary worth £10m.

[Grumps]

Totally clear, but you’re getting confoduddled by your own interpretation AGAIN.

Below is what you replied to, suggesting I'd said they were stopping in the same house as his sister, now which one of us is confoduddled

To a house where he and his wife and son could self isolate, close to his sister and niece, both younger, who could assist with childcare. Not to a house occupied by anyone else

[jackmiggins]

How could they ‘assist’ with childcare from a different building? Think before posting!

[jackmiggins]

Having my tea shortly-or should I say No 49 are going to have it??