Covid-19

[martin_p]

Without social distancing yes

Two metres is a bit of a red herring if you spend a significant amount of time near to someone anyway. If they’re breathing out virus it’s heading to your lungs, it won’t stop at 2 metres.

[Grumps]

Two metres is a bit of a red herring if you spend a significant amount of time near to someone anyway. If they’re breathing out virus it’s heading to your lungs, it won’t stop at 2 metres.

As per usual an UTC poster know better than the experts

[Spijed]

As per usual an UTC poster know better than the experts

But experts can be questioned because some say 2 metres, other say 1.5 and the WHO say 1 metre.

So which guidelines should we trust?

[Grumps]

But experts can be questioned because some say 2 metres, other say 1.5 and the WHO say 1 metre.

So which guidelines should we trust?

Exactly, yet 2m isn't enough for our very own expert.
Thanks for proving my point.

[tiger76]

Johnson leading the briefing alongside Vallance and Whitty expect easing of lockdown to be announced.

[Devils_Advocate]

Exactly, yet 2m isn't enough for our very own expert.
Thanks for proving my point.

A Chinese study concluded that they saw an example of the virus spreading across 4.5m on a bus and even infected one person who got on the bus 30 mins after the spreader had got off.

I think there is still a lot of uncertainty and that is why the track and trace app has been seen as an essential part of the wider track and trace process

Still any kind of track and trace process in place is a positive step forward so lets hope this side of it proves to be a success as I've already seen a lot of feedback from people involved concerned that its all a bit of a mess at the moment

[TVC15]

It just smacks of hyperbole which this government are great at,just an effective system well be fine,we don't need all the fanfare.

How many times has he said we are the only country with a furlough scheme ?
It’s his response to most difficult questions on any subject !
There are many countries around the world with a furlough scheme.
And this isn’t me criticising the very generous economic package developed in the UK - it’s in the context of Bojo’s constant hyperbole and trying to deflect mistakes and problems. Very similar trait to his big mate over the pond.

[tiger76]

UK coronavirus deaths rise by 377

A further 377 people have died in the UK after testing positive for coronavirus, taking the total number of deaths to 37,837, according to figures from the Department of Health and Social Care.

The figures include deaths in all settings, not just in hospitals.

[tiger76]

How many times has he said we are the only country with a furlough scheme ?
It’s his response to most difficult questions on any subject !
There are many countries around the world with a furlough scheme.
And this isn’t me criticising the very generous economic package developed in the UK - it’s in the context of Bojo’s constant hyperbole and trying to deflect mistakes and problems. Very similar trait to his big mate over the pond.

It's bizarre why he'd lie about the furlough scheme,yes it's a decent scheme compared to most other countries,but it's certainly not unique,and a quick Google search can show this claim to be false.

Just stop with the sales pitch this is not the Apprentice or Dragon's Den,just knuckle down and get things in place properly before making brash public announcements,we know it's not an easy victory against covid,and it'll require effort and patience to overcome,and yes they're will be mistakes along the way,it'd be daft to expect otherwise.

Amber Rudd nailed this on Peston last night,if the government were open and honest and acknowledged their errors ,and then learned from them they'd get a much better reception from the public.

[Devils_Advocate]

It's bizarre why he'd lie about the furlough scheme,yes it's a decent scheme compared to most other countries,but it's certainly not unique,and a quick Google search can show this claim to be false.

Just stop with the sales pitch this is not the Apprentice or Dragon's Den,just knuckle down and get things in place properly before making brash public announcements,we know it's not an easy victory against covid,and it'll require effort and patience to overcome,and yes they're will be mistakes along the way,it'd be daft to expect otherwise.

Amber Rudd nailed this on Peston last night,if the government were open and honest and acknowledged their errors ,and then learned from them they'd get a much better reception from the public.

Precisely and those who are just going to attack and criticise the govt no matter what they do would stand out as the problem and get no sympathy from the majority of the people

[aggi]

Without social distancing yes

Well in busy places you can have functioning public transport or social distancing, not both. That's the issue.

[CombatClaret]

"I’m going to disagree with him that it is far too early to make international comparisons. If they are to be done, they should be on a per capita basis." - Dominic Raab, PMQs 29/04

EZFjopnXsAAkEYL.jpg (73.84 KiB) Viewed 2235 times

[Zlatan]

they excelled with that absolutely patronising video...

I also noted no castles on the info graphics

[CombatClaret]

That video was stolen via a wormhole to an alternate reality which had a competent government in early March 2020 with an effective track and trace program.

[AndrewJB]

It was accurate and still is because some of her sources e.g.MPs believe Cummings acted in accordance with the guidelines. They are of course wrong but the doesn't mean she was incorrect. Anyhow, it really was no big deal.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18090 ... tory-aide/

This is an example of how it leads to her reporting fake news. Just check the story first before tweeting. Not too hard.

[CombatClaret]

Apparently the scientists who presumably designed the lockdown are keen not to answer questions about public behavior lock down behavior where they might be required to say their boss is wrong and his mate broke the rules.

And the PM say's you're not allowed to ask them such questions. Gagged.

[taio]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18090 ... tory-aide/

This is an example of how it leads to her reporting fake news. Just check the story first before tweeting. Not too hard.

This is completely different. I don't see Kuenssberg's tweet as anything but a trivial matter. If you think differently fair enough. I've better things to do.

[NottsClaret]

So it looks like the fatality rate for Covid-19 infections is around 1% after all.

[tiger76]

'Feisty' 103-year-old celebrates recovery with beer

A 103-year-old nursing home resident in the US state of Massachusetts has marked her recovery from Covid-19 with... a Bud Light beer.

Jennie Stejna was sick for around three weeks, according to her family. She had a low-grade fever, had to be moved to a separate ward and spoke on the phone with her family to say her last goodbyes. But on 13 May, she finally beat the virus.

"This feisty old Polish grandmother of ours officially beat the coronavirus," her family announced on Facebook. They added that when they asked her earlier if she was ready to go to heaven, Stejna responded: "Hell yes."

To celebrate, staff at her nursing home brought her a bottle of Bud Light, which she used to drink while watching Boston Red Sox baseball games.

Cheers!

[Spijed]

The push back begins. Strange how they had no problem highlighting Italy's rate of deaths in the early days :

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetor ... l#comments

[TheFamilyCat]

Don't think this was covered last night but it looks like the government contribution to wages for furloughed staff will be reduced to 60% with employers paying 20%.

I think something like this was obvious when the extension was announced.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... 0-of-wages

[Mala591]

Pub in the back garden?

From Monday you can meet up with up to six friends and have a few beers in the back garden.

I think

[tiger76]

Don't think this was covered last night but it looks like the government contribution to wages for furloughed staff will be reduced to 60% with employers paying 20%.

I think something like this was obvious when the extension was announced.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... 0-of-wages

It's been rumoured for a few weeks they'd start cutting back the furlough payments,i guess it's part of the drive to get people back to work again.

[tiger76]

This shows that full recovery can be a long process for some patients.

NHS Seacole: Covid-19 rehab centre takes first patients

The first hospital dedicated to helping coronavirus patients recover from the long-term effects of the illness has received its first patients.

Surrey's NHS Seacole Centre opened this month at Headley Court, a former rehab centre for injured soldiers.

Covid-19 patients can be left with tracheostomy wounds from having a tube inserted in the windpipe or need heart, lung or muscle therapy, the NHS said.

Others who have survived the virus may need psychological or social care.

NHS chief executive Sir Simon Stevens said: "While our country is now emerging from the initial peak of coronavirus, we're now seeing a substantial new need for rehab and aftercare."

He said while patients had survived life-threatening complications, many would see a longer-lasting impact on their health.

More than 100 staff members have been recruited to work at the centre near Leatherhead, with initial plans for 130 beds and capacity for up to 300 if needed.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said front-line NHS staff had saved tens of thousands of lives and, while the battle with Covid-19 continued, NHS Seacole would provide dedicated rehab.

He said: "For some people this can be a debilitating illness, with lasting effects.

"The new NHS Seacole Centre is just the start as the NHS rapidly strengthens community support to help those affected return home to their loved ones, and to full health."

Named after the pioneering Jamaican-born nurse Mary Seacole, who cared for wounded British soldiers during the Crimean War, the centre is hosted by Epsom and St Helier NHS.

It is run by a partnership including GP practices, hospitals and Surrey County Council, while Surrey Downs Health and Care is responsible for facilities and care.

Clinical director Dr Hilary Floyd said the virus had been "cruel to so many" but NHS Seacole would provide them with a place of recovery.

Chief executive of Epsom and St Helier University Hospitals NHS, Daniel Elkeles, said: "It is with great pride that we can provide expert and compassionate care... in a purpose-designed centre that bears the Seacole name."

[UnderSeige]

Possible second wave or could it transmute into something less transmissible over the summer and fizzle out? Or could a vaccine wipe it out by end of year/early next year?

For second wave
"Second more deadly wave of coronavirus expected 'to hit Europe this winter'" (WHO).
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... eak-covid/

"Boris Johnson admits horrific second wave of coronavirus likely to strike Britain"
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12808 ... death-rate

Iran Second Wave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auj9yt5SrMk
"The coronavirus infection rate is still too high. There will probably be a second wave"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... econd-wave

"Second Waves are almost guaranteed" (Dr Chris Martenson = Pathologist and economist)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZG64p0RBDI

"Unless the government changes tack, the UK's lockdown will have been for nothing"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oronavirus

"The 1918 Spanish flu’s second wave was even more devastating’: WHO advises caution to avoid ‘immediate second peak".
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/we-wi ... 2020-04-22


For Virus Fading Away (possibly with help of a vaccine eventually)

New cases per day in the UK are falling. Using a five day moving average from the Worldometer figures they stood at:

• 05/05/20 5,159

• 18/05/20 3,055

• 28/05/20 2,392

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
This is also at a time when testing has increased considerably - but perhaps by not enough. Also restrictions have started to be eased and many people are now being less stringent at following government guidelines.

Other European countries have also seen significant decreases in cases.

"Science vs. COVID-19: Vaccine trial wins and other hopeful findings."
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articl ... S-survivor

"GSK targets production of 1bn doses of coronavirus vaccine booster".
https://www.ft.com/content/30c6c6a7-dca ... 8835f1aab3

"Here’s Exactly Where We Are with Vaccines and Treatments for COVID-19"
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... r-covid-19

[FactualFrank]

Pub in the back garden?

From Monday you can meet up with up to six friends and have a few beers in the back garden.

It's groups of 6 people, so yourself and 5 friends.

This is going to be a real bugger for the Seven Dwarfs, but I guess Sneezy can stay at home.

[Paul Waine]

This shows that full recovery can be a long process for some patients.

NHS Seacole: Covid-19 rehab centre takes first patients

The first hospital dedicated to helping coronavirus patients recover from the long-term effects of the illness has received its first patients.

Surrey's NHS Seacole Centre opened this month at Headley Court, a former rehab centre for injured soldiers.

Covid-19 patients can be left with tracheostomy wounds from having a tube inserted in the windpipe or need heart, lung or muscle therapy, the NHS said.

Others who have survived the virus may need psychological or social care.

NHS chief executive Sir Simon Stevens said: "While our country is now emerging from the initial peak of coronavirus, we're now seeing a substantial new need for rehab and aftercare."

He said while patients had survived life-threatening complications, many would see a longer-lasting impact on their health.

More than 100 staff members have been recruited to work at the centre near Leatherhead, with initial plans for 130 beds and capacity for up to 300 if needed.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said front-line NHS staff had saved tens of thousands of lives and, while the battle with Covid-19 continued, NHS Seacole would provide dedicated rehab.

He said: "For some people this can be a debilitating illness, with lasting effects.

"The new NHS Seacole Centre is just the start as the NHS rapidly strengthens community support to help those affected return home to their loved ones, and to full health."

Named after the pioneering Jamaican-born nurse Mary Seacole, who cared for wounded British soldiers during the Crimean War, the centre is hosted by Epsom and St Helier NHS.

It is run by a partnership including GP practices, hospitals and Surrey County Council, while Surrey Downs Health and Care is responsible for facilities and care.

Clinical director Dr Hilary Floyd said the virus had been "cruel to so many" but NHS Seacole would provide them with a place of recovery.

Chief executive of Epsom and St Helier University Hospitals NHS, Daniel Elkeles, said: "It is with great pride that we can provide expert and compassionate care... in a purpose-designed centre that bears the Seacole name."

"Like" because Headley Court is providing valuable health care needs, again. "Like" also naming "Seacole Centre."

[tiger76]

This is what happens when lavish promises are made and not met.

Labour: Government breaking test and trace promise

Labour has accused the government of not having a full test and trace system up and running by June as promised.

"We don’t have, for example, the local authority plans all around the country. And the app which was said to be so important is now being described as a cherry on top of the cake rather than something that’s central," shadow home secretary Nick Thomas-Symonds told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

England's test and trace system launched on Thursday but a planned contact tracing app is not yet ready to be rolled out across the country.

[tiger76]

It's groups of 6 people, so yourself and 5 friends.

This is going to be a real bugger for the Seven Dwarfs, but I guess Sneezy can stay at home.

He'll need to self-isolate

Bizarrely the advice in Scotland is gatherings of up to 8 will be permitted in outdoor spaces.

Why the difference IDK because throughout this whole process NS has tended to exercise far more caution than BJ.

[Vintage Claret]

It's groups of 6 people, so yourself and 5 friends.

This is going to be a real bugger for the Seven Dwarfs, but I guess Sneezy can stay at home.

Thanks Frank that made me

[tiger76]

"Like" because Headley Court is providing valuable health care needs, again. "Like" also naming "Seacole Centre."

If it's a readily available asset then it makes sense to utilise it,the government gets a tick for this from me.

But this shows that even if the most optimistic predictions are correct and this pandemic goes away naturally over the next few months it's still left a long-term mark on many survivors.

[tiger76]

Australia offering hope post-lockdown

Australia 'on track' two weeks out of lockdown

It's been a fortnight since Prime Minister Scott Morrison gave the go-ahead to start easing Australia out of lockdown - and so far, things are going according to plan.

Health officials say the nation has only two patients on ventilators, is finding fewer than 20 infections per day from 30,000 tests, and "is in good shape" overall.

"We may see more cases as we relax restrictions but our aim is to make sure that outbreaks are small and controlled," said chief medical officer Dr Brendan Murphy.

With businesses open and public life slowly getting back to normal, there are concerns about public transport. Australia has never advised people to wear a mask in public (initially to protect supplies for health workers) - and says that advice will continue.

While people can wear them, there's no need, Dr Murphy said.

PM Morrison also reiterated interest in opening leisure travel with New Zealand in the near future - and said that travel could even occur sooner than that between Australian states.

Queensland, Western Australia and others have refused to open their borders - despite federal pressure.

[Paul Waine]

Message from a friend in Den Haag this morning. He's Italian, his wife is Polish. We worked together in London. His wife is with EMA, which moved to Amsterdam in 2018/19. His father, back in Italy had been in hospital for simple "bypass" operation. He ended up "fighting in intensive care unit for more than two months, because of severe pathologies that complicated his recovery." "He passed away the other day." He told me, "No one of the family could support him during his fight, not even my close family." "The difficulty lies also in the impossibility of being close to my family." Similarly, my friend was not able to travel to Italy to attend his father's funeral. "The funeral was streamed online, this is how I attended the ceremony. This is sad on the one hand but at least I managed to virtually be there..."

I asked about his 7 year old daughter. She'd been treated by GOSH for congenital heart condition while they were in London. She's back at school, organised as Group A and Group B, Mondays and Thursdays for one group, Tuesdays and Fridays the other group.

Separately, my friend was also able to tell me that he's starting a new job, a promotion that he's been trying for since her moved the Netherlands, not 18 months ago. His final interview was on the day his father died.

I'm looking forward to visiting Den Haag again - I lived there getting on 3 decades ago. I may have gone over there this spring, but for covid-19.

[Paul Waine]

It's groups of 6 people, so yourself and 5 friends.

This is going to be a real bugger for the Seven Dwarfs, but I guess Sneezy can stay at home.

Agree, Sneezy must self-isolate and stay at home.

However, they will all be able to meet up with Snow White if they can move to Scotland.

EDIT: Of course, when Sneezy has been tested negative on at least 2 occasions....or has recovered....

And, if they are in the Welsh valleys they will be able to get together and play "no touch" rugby with the everyone in the same, local, village.

[Paul Waine]

Another light hearted covid-19 story. John Penrose, Conservative MP for Weston-Super-Mare was on R4 a little before 7 a.m. this morning. The interview was about the Weston hospital that had closed to new admissions earlier in the week. The BBC guy asked Penrose whether he though "Track and Trace" would help the situation he'd described in W-s-M. Penrose replied, "Full disclosure, I must declare that I'm married to Dido Harding...." The BBC interview was "stumped" by that reply, kind of a "big" hole in their pre-interview research.

I don't know whether R4 repeated the recording of that interview an hour later in the programme, as is often the case.

[FactualFrank]

And, if they are in the Welsh valleys they will be able to get together and play "no touch" rugby with the everyone in the same, local, village.

Six of them won't be happy.

[Zlatan]

Another light hearted covid-19 story. John Penrose, Conservative MP for Weston-Super-Mare was on R4 a little before 7 a.m. this morning. The interview was about the Weston hospital that had closed to new admissions earlier in the week. The BBC guy asked Penrose whether he though "Track and Trace" would help the situation he'd described in W-s-M. Penrose replied, "Full disclosure, I must declare that I'm married to Dido Harding...." The BBC interview was "stumped" by that reply, kind of a "big" hole in their pre-interview research.

I don't know whether R4 repeated the recording of that interview an hour later in the programme, as is often the case.

I’m not sure if nepotism in government is light hearted or not...

[Paul Waine]

I’m not sure if nepotism in government is light hearted or not...

Hi Zlatan, fully agree on this point. I've been putting forward the proposal that 1 political appointment per 1 family group would improve our democracy massively. No Boris, Jo and Stanley Johnson, no Ed and David Milliband, no Cooper/Balls and the list goes on and on across all political parties. No Neil, Mrs and Stephen Kinnock or his Danish politician wife.

Alongside this, I'd abolish the House of Lords and replace it with an Assembly of Knowledgeable Persons - and exclude all but a few retired politicians.

However, what do you think of my light hearted point about the gap in the BBC's research?

[dsr]

Hi Zlatan, fully agree on this point. I've been putting forward the proposal that 1 political appointment per 1 family group would improve our democracy massively. No Boris, Jo and Stanley Johnson, no Ed and David Milliband, no Cooper/Balls and the list goes on and on across all political parties. No Neil, Mrs and Stephen Kinnock or his Danish politician wife.

No Pitt the Younger, no Winston Churchill either.

[Zlatan]

Hi Zlatan, fully agree on this point. I've been putting forward the proposal that 1 political appointment per 1 family group would improve our democracy massively. No Boris, Jo and Stanley Johnson, no Ed and David Milliband, no Cooper/Balls and the list goes on and on across all political parties. No Neil, Mrs and Stephen Kinnock or his Danish politician wife.

Alongside this, I'd abolish the House of Lords and replace it with an Assembly of Knowledgeable Persons - and exclude all but a few retired politicians.

However, what do you think of my light hearted point about the gap in the BBC's research?

I think there is a big difference between being from a family of career politicians and awarding massive contracts without a fair selection process to companies owned or run by family members, it's not anywhere near the same is it?

[Paul Waine]

I think there is a big difference between being from a family of career politicians and awarding massive contracts without a fair selection process to companies owned or run by family members, it's not anywhere near the same is it?

I've not looked at the basis for Dido Harding leading the Track and Trace role. I thought is was as a result of her position as Chair of NHS Improvement.

Is there "a massive contract" involved in her role in Track and Trace?

Do any of us think that there's time for a 3 months hiring/open tender process?

I'd discourage "career politicians" - that's no career at all.

[Paul Waine]

No Pitt the Younger, no Winston Churchill either.

I'm not that familiar with the others in either the Pitt or Churchill family before they started their respective political activities. However, 1 political per 1 family and the family can make their decision who they put forward and the electorate will choose from that one candidate whether we want to elect them.

One of the good things about the US system is that no president can serve for more than 2 terms, 8 years max. That amendment was brought in after FDR had won 3 presidential elections. The Kennedys, Bushs, Clintons and others demonstrate why a max 2 terms without a gap of at least 2 decades for one family would be a further improvement on that rule.

[tiger76]

SAGE split on lockdown easing?

Sage member questions easing of lockdown in England

A scientist on the UK government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) has suggested he does not agree with easing the lockdown at this stage.

In a briefing to health journalists Prof John Edmunds, from the London School of Tropical Hygiene and Medicine, said that 8,000 new infections a day in England, as calculated by the Office for National Statistics, was “a very high incidence” level.

"Many of us would prefer to see incidence down to lower levels before we relax measures," he said.

He said that with an "untested" test and trace system "we are taking some risk here" and "even if we keep it flat, that’s still quite a level".

“Lifting the lockdown is a political decision. Lifting it now, means we’re keeping incidence at this level," he added.

Shows not all the scientists are in agreement,and some think it's risky lifting lockdown too early.

[tiger76]

This is worrying how's the test trace & isolate going to work if people are just ignoring the advice.https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-h ... 6697.html

[joey13]

SAGE split on lockdown easing?

Sage member questions easing of lockdown in England

A scientist on the UK government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) has suggested he does not agree with easing the lockdown at this stage.

In a briefing to health journalists Prof John Edmunds, from the London School of Tropical Hygiene and Medicine, said that 8,000 new infections a day in England, as calculated by the Office for National Statistics, was “a very high incidence” level.

"Many of us would prefer to see incidence down to lower levels before we relax measures," he said.

He said that with an "untested" test and trace system "we are taking some risk here" and "even if we keep it flat, that’s still quite a level".

“Lifting the lockdown is a political decision. Lifting it now, means we’re keeping incidence at this level," he added.

Shows not all the scientists are in agreement,and some think it's risky lifting lockdown too early.

Can’t understand why people are ignoring a second peak ,it’s coming

[NewClaret]

More brilliance from Sunak today on the Furlough easing. Great work!

[FactualFrank]

Can’t understand why people are ignoring a second peak ,it’s coming

Can you give me a date, so I can put it in the diary.

[Spijed]

More brilliance from Sunak today on the Furlough easing. Great work!

And will all have to be paid for over time.

#magicmoneytree

[tiger76]

And will all have to be paid for over time.

#magicmoneytree

Is there an alternative cure if people are laid off in their droves they'll be even less tax revenue to distribute.

Sunak was definitely dropping strong hints that this scheme is winding down and employees and employers will have to try and reach an agreement for at least a phased return to the workplace.

I've not had any official confirmation from my employer,but i'd hope to be back long before even August.

I'm aware that the hospitality sector is really feeling the strain,and they are one exception he could conceivably make special arrangements towards.

[tiger76]

This is a touching story.

US boy in 'socially-distanced prom' for babysitter

When 17-year-old Rachel Chapman's prom was cancelled because of the coronavirus pandemic, seven-year-old Curtis, who she babysits, decided to surprise her with his own version.

Curtis held a socially distanced dinner and a dance in his back garden for Rachel. He served some of their favourites - apple slices with peanut butter, Chick-fil-A and smoothies.

Shows that community spirit is alive and well.