Covid-19

[KateR]

If we all do what the government wants, that can only be done by not thinking for ourselves and by abandoning common sense.

I would have thought listening to the government and it's scientific/medical advisers would be the first thing and then using common sense as to whether follow the advice or not.

I think ignoring the advice and going to the beach/protests/sports occasions, such as Liverpool, is abandoning common sense, but that's just me because what little common sense I have, actually agrees with the Government advice.

[UnderSeige]

What happened with Sars and Bird Flu, how did they come up with a cure for those? Did those take 18 months to get to market?

I think SARS (2003) eventually fizzled out. MERS (2015) caused big problems in Korea before it more or less fizzled out. There have still been local outbreaks of MERS since though. The last one was 2019.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I posted that in Feb, you’d already replied on the 3rd June which seemed quite a gap. Another reply now?

[FactualFrank]

I would have thought listening to the government and it's scientific/medical advisers would be the first thing and then using common sense as to whether follow the advice or not.

I think ignoring the advice and going to the beach/protests/sports occasions, such as Liverpool, is abandoning common sense, but that's just me because what little common sense I have, actually agrees with the Government advice.

It depends on who you talk to. I've got a couple of friends on Facebook who keep posting things suggesting this is all a ploy by the government, and it was never a serious illness. That people haven't been thinking for themselves by staying at home, and instead dancing to their tune.

[paulatky]

It depends on who you talk to. I've got a couple of friends on Facebook who keep posting things suggesting this is all a ploy by the government, and it was never a serious illness. That people haven't been thinking for themselves by staying at home, and instead dancing to their tune.

Is David Icke one of your facebook friends.

What is your view on how serious it is.

The fact that our PM very nearly fell to the virus should indicate to most sensible people how serious it is.

[KateR]

It depends on who you talk to. I've got a couple of friends on Facebook who keep posting things suggesting this is all a ploy by the government, and it was never a serious illness. That people haven't been thinking for themselves by staying at home, and instead dancing to their tune.

I was of course only putting my thoughts out in regard to "common sense" and this particular bit of the discussion. I know on virtually every subject I can think of, people will have different ideas, common sense being one and how it is applied to the virus and the Government in particular. I'm sure you can decide for yourself whether your friends are applying common sense or not in regard to this, of course my thoughts are, that anyone saying what you have quoted from them is not logical or applying common sense. But I would wouldn't I, because it is not what I think

Perhaps one of your FB friends Frank

[UnderSeige]

I posted that in Feb, you’d already replied on the 3rd June which seemed quite a gap. Another reply now?

I thought someone had asked the same thing before.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Caught me by surprise the first time after a few months. Second just confused me.

[Devils_Advocate]

Numbers down in Italy for the second day running.

Positive news but do you think they will sustain it?

[Bordeauxclaret]

Positive news but do you think they will sustain it?

[tiger76]

Stricter lockdown measures have been announced for Leicester after Covid-19 cases have risen in the city.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said non-essential shops will shut on Tuesday, and schools will close for most pupils on Thursday.

The loosening of restrictions for pubs and restaurants will also not be taking place in the city on Saturday.

Mr Hancock said Leicester accounted for "10% of all positive cases in the country over the past week".

Speaking in the House of Commons on Monday evening, he added: "We recommend to people in Leicester, stay at home as much as you can, and we recommend against all but essential travel to, from and within Leicester."

How they enforce this will be interesting to see.

[Billy Balfour]

I just came here to post that. Better late than never, I suppose. When the next spike occurs; I hope they act as soon as they become aware of it and don't pussyfoot about.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Stricter lockdown measures have been announced for Leicester after Covid-19 cases have risen in the city.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said non-essential shops will shut on Tuesday, and schools will close for most pupils on Thursday.

The loosening of restrictions for pubs and restaurants will also not be taking place in the city on Saturday.

Mr Hancock said Leicester accounted for "10% of all positive cases in the country over the past week".

Speaking in the House of Commons on Monday evening, he added: "We recommend to people in Leicester, stay at home as much as you can, and we recommend against all but essential travel to, from and within Leicester."

How they enforce this will be interesting to see.

Good move. How will they enforce it? Well some of it will be easy. Schools and pubs.

Rest as above - people need to take responsibility for themselves.

[Billy Balfour]

Good move. How will they enforce it? Well some of it will be easy. Schools and pubs.

Rest as above - people need to take responsibility for themselves.

And our police need to start issuing fines again for those who need it spelling out to them.

[bfcjg]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-c ... 14328.html
Interesting story hope there is some truth in it.

[tiger76]

Only 25 deaths in the UK today, and a 4th day in row with zero deaths in Scotland.

And a heartwarming tale herehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... -53221261

[cricketfieldclarets]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-c ... 14328.html
Interesting story hope there is some truth in it.

Let’s hope so. And you’d have to think that there would be a lot of prevalence of it In younger people for the older people to be getting it.

Younger people are more socially active. Yet the stats continue to show that younger, healthier people are at very low risk.

That doesn’t discount the fact some will get ill. And also shouldn’t read as insensitive towards the older. Just the reality.

[dsr]

I would have thought listening to the government and it's scientific/medical advisers would be the first thing and then using common sense as to whether follow the advice or not.

I think ignoring the advice and going to the beach/protests/sports occasions, such as Liverpool, is abandoning common sense, but that's just me because what little common sense I have, actually agrees with the Government advice.

I think you've got the point there. You can tell people to use common sense or you can tell people to do as they are told. You can't have both. It's no use telling people "these are the guidelines and you can use common sense" and then complaining if their common sense disagrees with yours.

There are many reasons, some of them right and some of them wrong, why people are taking desperately bored children who have done no schoolwork and hardly left the house for months, to the beach. Common sense says that it won't do the children or their parents any harm. Common sense says that the government allows it so it should be OK. Common sense says we are all being driven dotty and we need a break for our own sanity. Common sense also says that gathering at the beach might cause the number of cases, or even deaths, to rise. Common sense may say that we are concentrating so hard on coronavirus that we are doing more harm than good. Common sense says a lot of things, and making them all happen is impossible.

[KateR]

I think you've got the point there. You can tell people to use common sense or you can tell people to do as they are told. You can't have both. It's no use telling people "these are the guidelines and you can use common sense" and then complaining if their common sense disagrees with yours.

we will have to disagree I think. Gov guidelines still say keep your distance, agree you listen and say, right the beach will be a great break for the kids and get us all out of the house, however it's likely to be packed, decide and pack the car, look forward to that day out. Off we go and get to the beach and look, is there space where we stay safe, clearly not, choices go home or squeeze on the beach and ignore the Gov. advice. I suppose you have to consider are we going to mum & dads for dinner soon, will we be visiting someone in the home. Selfishness overcomes common sense many times.

Talked with our son and family, grandchildren are 5 & 3, they would love the beach, in discussion they were not willing to risk it but still went out with the children, photos clearly show no one close. We all have choices, what's good for someone is not for another, I wont discuss the protesters and Liverpool supporters, can easily see why they do but ramifications could be as bad as it gets.

As mentioned the same people will be blaming the Gov. for not providing the right advice if anything should happen to any of the family, many countries will impose rules that the population follow, UK, population wise, is not one of them.

[Grumps]

we will have to disagree I think. Gov guidelines still say keep your distance, agree you listen and say, right the beach will be a great break for the kids and get us all out of the house, however it's likely to be packed, decide and pack the car, look forward to that day out. Off we go and get to the beach and look, is there space where we stay safe, clearly not, choices go home or squeeze on the beach and ignore the Gov. advice. I suppose you have to consider are we going to mum & dads for dinner soon, will we be visiting someone in the home. Selfishness overcomes common sense many times.

Talked with our son and family, grandchildren are 5 & 3, they would love the beach, in discussion they were not willing to risk it but still went out with the children, photos clearly show no one close. We all have choices, what's good for someone is not for another, I wont discuss the protesters and Liverpool supporters, can easily see why they do but ramifications could be as bad as it gets.

As mentioned the same people will be blaming the Gov. for not providing the right advice if anything should happen to any of the family, many countries will impose rules that the population follow, UK, population wise, is not one of them.

I totally agree people have to take responsibility for their actions

It also helps in other countries where armed police would stop you going on the beach, and water cannons would deter the protesters or supporters

[joey13]

I would have thought listening to the government and it's scientific/medical advisers would be the first thing and then using common sense as to whether follow the advice or not.

I think ignoring the advice and going to the beach/protests/sports occasions, such as Liverpool, is abandoning common sense, but that's just me because what little common sense I have, actually agrees with the Government advice.

So you would be happy to get on a plane next week then ?

[jrgbfc]

It all seems to have gone very quiet on the subject of our "world beating" track and trace system. Anyone else get the feeling it's going to be a complete shambles like the mobile phone app?

[Grumps]

It all seems to have gone very quiet on the subject of our "world beating" track and trace system. Anyone else get the feeling it's going to be a complete shambles like the mobile phone app?

Perhaps it's gone quiet because it's working, and we haven't got the brain dead reporters asking stupid questions about it on the daily briefing

[claret2018]

Do we have a track and trace system? I genuinely have no idea. I thought they'd sacked off the idea.

[Grumps]

Do we have a track and trace system? I genuinely have no idea. I thought they'd sacked off the idea.

Perhaps not quite world beating, but thousands being tracked and traced every day

[UnderSeige]

Perhaps not quite world beating, but thousands being tracked and traced every day

They recruited over 25,000 people to run the 'track and trace'. They call them 'human contact tracers'. A number of these (not sure how many) are not 'full time' they are just NHS workers doing extra shifts for contact tracing.

If someone tests positive they have to log onto the NHS website and enter details such as:

Name, date of birth and postcode
Who you live with
Places you visited recently
Names and contact details of people you have recently been in close contact with
Close contacts are:

people you've spent 15 minutes or more with at a distance of less than 2m
Sexual partners, household members or people with whom you have had face-to-face conversations at a distance of less than 1m https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52442754

Is the scheme any good?

Between 28 May and 17 June:
20,968 people who tested positive had been referred to the scheme
Of these, 15,225 (72.6%) provided details of recent contacts
The contacts amounted to 128,566 people - of these,113,925 people (88.6%) were reached and asked to self-isolate. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52442754

I'm not sure how many of the 'people asked to self-isolate' complied. In other countries, when a person is told to self isolate, they are warned that random visits to their home will be made by health officials. If they are not in they get a heavy fine. Possibly, some people asked to 'self isolate' ignored the advise and went to the beach.

[UnderSeige]

Do we have a track and trace system? I genuinely have no idea. I thought they'd sacked off the idea.

The app was supposed to be an essential part of 'track and trace'. It will not now be available until sometime in the winter at the earliest. I read this as 'winter if we are lucky but most likely next spring'.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson says: "No country in the world has a working contact-tracing app."

I would like to correct this as follows: "No country in the world has a working contact-tracing app except Singapore, South Korea, Malaysia, Iceland, Australia, Norway, Ghana, New Zealand, Germany, France, Spain, Finland, Georgia, Switzerland, Israel, India, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Poland, Czech Republic, Denmark, Japan, Italy, Latvia, Angola, Brazil, Canada, Hungary, Bahrain, Colombia, Jordan, Sri Lanka, North Macedonia, Qatar, South Africa, Indonesia, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, Bangladesh and Azerbaijan"

There are also two global apps available: 'World Health Organization COVID-19 App' and 'Coalition App'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_apps

[CombatClaret]

What a shambles of a speech: Boris Johnson's "New Deal"

UK Response - 0.2% GDP
Germany Response - 4% GPD
FDR 1930s New Deal - 40% GPD

No new money just re announcing old schemes, £76 per person(New Deal was $7,500 per person), “shovel ready” (remember "oven ready"). Also managed to take a swipe and the civil service and keep the culture war going with a nod to statues.
According to Boris, Captain Tom raised money for charity, the NHS is not a charity, just underfunded.

No substance only spin.

[Grumps]

The app was supposed to be an essential part of 'track and trace'. It will not now be available until sometime in the winter at the earliest. I read this as 'winter if we are lucky but most likely next spring'.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson says: "No country in the world has a working contact-tracing app."

I would like to correct this as follows: "No country in the world has a working contact-tracing app except Singapore, South Korea, Malaysia, Iceland, Australia, Norway, Ghana, New Zealand, Germany, France, Spain, Finland, Georgia, Switzerland, Israel, India, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Poland, Czech Republic, Denmark, Japan, Italy, Latvia, Angola, Brazil, Canada, Hungary, Bahrain, Colombia, Jordan, Sri Lanka, North Macedonia, Qatar, South Africa, Indonesia, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, Bangladesh and Azerbaijan"

There are also two global apps available: 'World Health Organization COVID-19 App' and 'Coalition App'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_apps

The question was about the system, not the app.
I guess you've just copied the list without any research to back it up. For example the Swiss app has only been active for 3 days, and hasn't been downloaded enough to see if it will work effectively

[Zlatan]

The question was about the system, not the app.

So its working and world beating then? Great

[Grumps]

So its working and world beating then? Great

I said it wasn't world beating

[Devils_Advocate]

Whether you believe what the govt say or not is up to you but Matt Hancock has stated he is confident by the end of this week our world beating track and trace system will have identified at least 3 of the people who were at Bournemouth beach last week

[UnderSeige]

The question was about the system, not the app.
I guess you've just copied the list without any research to back it up. For example the Swiss app has only been active for 3 days, and hasn't been downloaded enough to see if it will work effectively

For my reply about the system please refer to my post just after 11 am.

For research, please look at the link. Most of the countries listed have apps in use. Some have more than one app.

The Swiss App is called SwissCovid. It is based on apple/google technology. Switzerland has also been recognised as the safest country in the world in relation to COVID.

The SwissCovid contact tracing app became available on June 25; as of June 28, about 810,000 people had downloaded it. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/covid-19_c ... d/45592192

Switzerland named as the safest country in the world for Covid-19 https://www.timeout.com/switzerland/new ... r-covid-19

[bfcjg]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/exposure-comm ... 36122.html
More research that gives credence to the theory that a lot of us might have some immunity due to having had colds with a similar make up to covid 19.

[mdd2]

That is a strange one for whilst T cell function declines with age the group most exposed to coronoviruses that cause the common cold must be the elderly purely by anno domini. So if this is true maybe we need a mass innoculation campaign with strains of the common cold

[KateR]

So you would be happy to get on a plane next week then ?

No, and again I would use my common sense, if going on holiday or to take my kids somewhere I would not do it, if a my family were seriously ill I would probably do it with maximum precautions, mask all the way, gloves, as in more than one pair, toilet, lot of hand washing, I would follow the all Gov. and "expert" advisers and keep my distance.

In Texas we opened long before UK, I used my common sense in terms of I wanted to go out but did not, yet we had a family birthday and 4 of us went to a local restaurant where we ensured we had a table apart when it was 50% occupancy.

I also don't see a lot of comparison with going to a beach and taking an airplane except for the close proximity, hopefully this answers your question.

[UnderSeige]

What a shambles of a speech: Boris Johnson's "New Deal"

UK Response - 0.2% GDP
Germany Response - 4% GPD
FDR 1930s New Deal - 40% GPD

No new money just re announcing old schemes, £76 per person(New Deal was $7,500 per person), “shovel ready” (remember "oven ready"). Also managed to take a swipe and the civil service and keep the culture war going with a nod to statues.
According to Boris, Captain Tom raised money for charity, the NHS is not a charity, just underfunded.

No substance only spin.

I would settle for the potholes in the roads being filled in and the restoration of first world road surfaces. I don't expect it will happen though.

[UnderSeige]

I said it wasn't world beating

It's not working either. When they tried it out in the Isle of Wight it had more bugs than a tramps vest.

[UnderSeige]

That is a strange one for whilst T cell function declines with age the group most exposed to coronoviruses that cause the common cold must be the elderly purely by anno domini. So if this is true maybe we need a mass innoculation campaign with strains of the common cold

It's another one of those 'could have might theories' but it does sound feasible. It would also explain why, in some households, part of the family were infected whilst other members of the family were not.

There is also the theory that a significant number of people had the disease with no symptoms and now carry the antibodies. If one or both of these is true, the population might now be heading towards 'herd immunity'.

[joey13]

No, and again I would use my common sense, if going on holiday or to take my kids somewhere I would not do it, if a my family were seriously ill I would probably do it with maximum precautions, mask all the way, gloves, as in more than one pair, toilet, lot of hand washing, I would follow the all Gov. and "expert" advisers and keep my distance.

In Texas we opened long before UK, I used my common sense in terms of I wanted to go out but did not, yet we had a family birthday and 4 of us went to a local restaurant where we ensured we had a table apart when it was 50% occupancy.

I also don't see a lot of comparison with going to a beach and taking an airplane except for the close proximity, hopefully this answers your question.

Not really but thanks for trying

[KateR]

Not really but thanks for trying

Ahh well, I did try, but regardless stay safe at the beach, during your protests and when the masses gather as BFC secure the second European adventure in the near future

[Grumps]

It's not working either. When they tried it out in the Isle of Wight it had more bugs than a tramps vest.

That's the app... Not the system, which is working and tracing people every day.

[UnderSeige]

That's the app... Not the system, which is working and tracing people every day.

It is tracing people to an extent. It's unclear whether many of them are following the advice to isolate for 14 days.

The people who it traces should be told that officials will visit their homes on random occasions during the 14 days. If they are not in without a very good excuse, they will get fined. Otherwise it's a bit too 'wishy washy' to work. In times of National Emergency governments need to be 'clear and firm' not 'vague and wobbly'.

The App was going to be an integral part of the track and trace system. Without it and without 'firm leadership' the system is a lot less effective.

[Grumps]

It is tracing people to an extent. It's unclear whether many of them are following the advice to isolate for 14 days.

The people who it traces should be told that officials will visit their homes on random occasions during the 14 days. If they are not in without a very good excuse, they will get fined. Otherwise it's a bit too 'wishy washy' to work. In times of National Emergency governments need to be 'clear and firm' not 'vague and wobbly'.

The App was going to be an integral part of the track and trace system. Without it and without 'firm leadership' the system is a lot less effective.

I don't think the app would make somebody self isolate any better
It's already been well published that nobody will police it, so it's down to the individual. That shouldn't need any more leadership, everybody knows why you should isolate if asked to do so, unless they've been on Mars for 3 months.

[cricketfieldclarets]

In better news

[tiger76]

Deaths seem to be returning to normal amounts, and there's far less CV fatalitieshttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53233066

[cricketfieldclarets]

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

In better news

Is there not a bit of controversy surrounding this ‘professor’?

[TheFamilyCat]

The one called Francois Ballox? Why would he not be reputable?

[ksrclaret]

Professor Sikora gets a bad press from some, I think due to his views on the NHS that I've not seen but from what I've heard I wouldn't agree with. However, I find him to be an outstanding source of information and knowledge and I often check his tweets first when I want some news on the virus. He has generally been ahead of the curve on this.

His specialism is oncology but a number of viruses are implicated in the origin of cancer. Oncologists therefore have quite an extensive knowledge of viral life cycles, and indeed the immune system.