Covid-19

[joey13]

Can you give me a date, so I can put it in the diary.

It’s not a laughing matter

[jackmiggins]

There has been, and still is, so much wrong in approaching and dealing with this situation. Allowing unrestricted access to the country, total lack of preparation (ICU, care homes, PPE to name but a few). Our government is proving itself to be totally incompetent and we are now paying for years of political and class apathy. Quite simply, ‘old school tie’ does not mean that these incumbents to office are equipped to deal with anything other than stationery budgets.
Afraid that the birds are coming home to roost!

[bfcjg]

Totally agree about how incompetent aspects of the UK's approach has been and at times it has been treated like an Etonian public school lark.
However time for more snippets of good news.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-h ... 41078.html

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-9 ... 00363.html

[CombatClaret]

Covid-19 spreading too fast to lift lockdown in England – Sage advisers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... aincontent

8000 infections per day,
R rate nearly at 1.
Deaths are increasing again this week compared to last.

Yesterday in regards to easing up lockdown "the scientists know what we are doing" - Sunak.
That's a very marked difference from following the science.

[TheFamilyCat]

It'll be fine, Boris has been on Facebook:

20200530_103726.jpg (229.17 KiB) Viewed 3138 times

[tiger76]

Covid-19 spreading too fast to lift lockdown in England – Sage advisers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... aincontent

8000 infections per day,
R rate nearly at 1.
Deaths are increasing again this week compared to last.

Yesterday in regards to easing up lockdown "the scientists know what we are doing" - Sunak.
That's a very marked difference from following the science.

That's why some in the scientific community are going on record to emphasise easing lockdown this early is a political decision, so if it all goes Pete Tong the government can't hide behind the we're following the science mantra.

Are deaths increasing i wasn't aware of that the UK certainly isn't as far down the curve as other European countries were when they eased their lockdowns. And the R rate is perilously near to 1 it wouldn't take a lot for the virus to quickly spread again.

It's definitely a risk, let's hope for the sake of the nation that it pays off.

[Zlatan]

That's why some in the scientific community are going on record to emphasise easing lockdown this early is a political decision, so if it all goes Pete Tong the government can't hide behind the we're following the science mantra.

Are deaths increasing i wasn't aware of that the UK certainly isn't as far down the curve as other European countries were when they eased their lockdowns. And the R rate is perilously near to 1 it wouldn't take a lot for the virus to quickly spread again.

It's definitely a risk, let's hope for the sake of the nation that it pays off.

This weekend when everyone “does a Dom” (ignores the advice) and has parties in their gardens there is only one result - increased R and second wave.

I witnessed neighbours (the same ones who clap like seals at the zoo every week) having a garden party last night - at least 10 people in the garden getting shitfaced

[bfcjg]

One of the links I put on shows some very interesting scientific debate as to why some people don't catch it despite living in a household with sufferers and some show no symptoms and there is growing evidence that as the virus is from the same family as the common cold in essence a lot of people have in built immunity due to having had strains of the cold similar to the virus so they have t cell numbers that ward off or fight the virus. I think as scientists and doctors find out more they can develop treatments etc.

[Billy Balfour]

The govt has more or less stuck two fingers up at their science advisors. You know what's coming next, apart from the mounting death toll? It will be their favourite mantra of 'we've had enough of experts'. They already have blood of their hands through their sheer incompetence, but now it will be by design and they won't ever be forgiven - living memory and history will make sure of that.

[FactualFrank]

It’s not a laughing matter

There's no guarantee it'll happen yet you put it across as a certainty.

[Billy Balfour]

I witnessed neighbours (the same ones who clap like seals at the zoo every week) having a garden party last night - at least 10 people in the garden getting shitfaced

Same here on our lane. Two households who basically haven't given a toss, yet they're out clapping every Thursday evening. They also have 'Protect the NHS and Keyworkers' posters all over their windows. I don't know how they have the gall.

[Grumps]

This weekend when everyone “does a Dom” (ignores the advice) and has parties in their gardens there is only one result - increased R and second wave.

I witnessed neighbours (the same ones who clap like seals at the zoo every week) having a garden party last night - at least 10 people in the garden getting shitfaced

Iam sure the type of people who gather in gardens ( or elsewhere) and ignore all the rules, were doing it long before last weekend.

[J50]

One of the links I put on shows some very interesting scientific debate as to why some people don't catch it despite living in a household with sufferers and some show no symptoms and there is growing evidence that as the virus is from the same family as the common cold in essence a lot of people have in built immunity due to having had strains of the cold similar to the virus so they have t cell numbers that ward off or fight the virus. I think as scientists and doctors find out more they can develop treatments etc.

One of the earliest cases pre lockdown was a child came back from Italy skiing. Became ill and a few days later diagnosed, school closed down etc. No one else in his household/family got the virus from him.

[Zlatan]

Iam sure the type of people who gather in gardens ( or elsewhere) and ignore all the rules, were doing it long before last weekend.

Yes, they were disregarding the rules since the beginning and also clapping the NHS (whilst criticising those who didn’t) every week.

Does it make them right?

[Grumps]

Yes, they were disregarding the rules since the beginning and also clapping the NHS (whilst criticising those who didn’t) every week.

Does it make them right?

Nope, and I didn't say it did.

[tiger76]

Can't vouch for it's accuracy but this local map could be revealing it suggests many areas haven't yet reached their CV peaks.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/18-councils-y ... 2417.html

This backs up many of the calls for localised lockdowns remaining in place for now, but as ever the rest of the country has to dance to London's tune.

[jackmiggins]

I’ve been calling for local mapping for two months now. Still have no idea of the infection rate in my, or any other area, other than info on local trusts, which obviously cover much greater areas. Again, pathetic!

[tiger76]

In the interests of fairness this story should be mentioned https://uk.news.yahoo.com/liverpool-de ... 48135.html

[jackmiggins]

Thanks Tiger, but I think we’re all aware that a massive percentage of this country will do similar, especially after the Cummings debacle.

[bfcjg]

In the interests of fairness this story should be mentioned https://uk.news.yahoo.com/liverpool-de ... 48135.html

Another two faced politician " it wasn't a party it was an event "
Similar to driving for an eye test.

[jackmiggins]

Or holidaying in March.

[Billy Balfour]

Another two faced politician " it wasn't a party it was an event "
Similar to driving for an eye test.

She should be sacked. End of, and the same goes for all the other elected and none-elected hypocrites. I'm sick of them and their pathetic excuses.

[joey13]

There's no guarantee it'll happen yet you put it across as a certainty.

Of course there’s a guarantee it will happen , it’s a virus it doesn’t play by the rules , lockdown being lifted despite infection rates and deaths higher than when we went into lockdown, to coin a phrase use your common sense

[dsr]

Or holidaying in March.

Will you stop banging on about holidays in March? There is no way anyone with a ha'porth of common sense could say that going on holiday in accordance with government advice is equivalent to having a party against government advice.

[Tall Paul]

In the interests of fairness this story should be mentioned https://uk.news.yahoo.com/liverpool-de ... 48135.html

At least she's stepped down while it's being investigated, unlike the other fella who it looks like we're not allowed to talk about.

[dsr]

Of course there’s a guarantee it will happen , it’s a virus it doesn’t play by the rules , lockdown being lifted despite infection rates and deaths higher than when we went into lockdown, to coin a phrase use your common sense

So it doesn't play by the rules which makes it certain that it will do what you expect it to? That's a bit contradictory, isn't it?

[Top Claret]

I thought the reason why we had to isolate was to protect the NHS. Hospitals have been far from stretched, running on average 40% below capacity.

This social isolation as been a joke from day one with the vast majority not complying

Protect the old and sick, scrap Furloughs and get the country back to work

[alwaysaclaret]

8000 + in hospital, 324 latest figure of deaths, 2000 + new cases per day, yet the government message over the last few days apart from not going on the turf, not going to the pub, and not going on holiday, is have a party this weekend, yes the stay alert message is still there, which depends on how one person interprets that message from another, but I suspect the vast majority will throw caution to the wind given the level of confusion being sent out by the government. MADNESS in my opinion.

[Billy Balfour]

I would make the furlough work. None-compliance with the lockdown rules and bang goes your furlough money. Same goes for those on benefits along with much heavy fines for those who aren't in receipt of either. Yep, authoritarian, but we are talking about a life and death situation here. Also, the quicker we get the R-Rate down, the sooner we can kickstart the economy.

Anyway, I now fear it's all been for nothing. The govt have screwed up massively - just look at the deaths and R-Rate. It's now only a matter of time before we have the second wave and I fear it will be a tsunami. Good luck with getting people out in the town centres spending their money. Many will feel it's too dangerous.

[tiger76]

At least she's stepped down while it's being investigated, unlike the other fella who it looks like we're not allowed to talk about.

Yes she's taken the sensible approach,having read the story i have to wonder what she's personally done wrong,her family however by their actions have placed her in an awkward spot, and she might end up paying the price for their stupid behaviour.

It was an amazing coincidence that this gathering just happened to be on her birthday however,the really daft act was posting the video on Twiitter what did she imagine the reaction was going to be.

Is there something in the water in Liverpool found this chap.

Meanwhile, councillor Barry Kushner, the cabinet Member for children's services, has been suspended of all council duties for two months following an internal Labour group investigation into a gathering outside on land near his home on 9 May.

Mr Kushner previously told the BBC it was not an organised event but that his in-laws had turned up unannounced and six people in a photograph which emerged were from his household.

Quite why Liverpool even needs 3 deputy mayors is another

What part of don't visit other family members don't the Scousers understand.

[jackmiggins]

Will you stop banging on about holidays in March? There is no way anyone with a ha'porth of common sense could say that going on holiday in accordance with government advice is equivalent to having a party against government advice.

You’ve certainly latched on to the phrase I used about ‘banging on’ about this - try one of your own. Don’t think anyone advised these people to venture abroad on planes, but common sense would tell a baboon that it wasn’t a terribly good idea. Have a good party.

[tiger76]

I thought the reason why we had to isolate was to protect the NHS. Hospitals have been far from stretched, running on average 40% below capacity.

This social isolation as been a joke from day one with the vast majority not complying

Protect the old and sick, scrap Furloughs and get the country back to work

The main reason hospitals haven't been stretched is a lot of positive covid patients have been returned to their care homes,and lo and behold that led to an explosion in care home outbreaks.

I don't necessarily disagree with those that are fit and able returning to work,if they can hold garden parties/BBQ'S then they can return to the workplace.

[joey13]

So it doesn't play by the rules which makes it certain that it will do what you expect it to? That's a bit contradictory, isn't it?

Government rules

[tiger76]

Anyway a positive story to reporthttps://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-a ... 6346.html

[Billy Balfour]

Sorry to blight the positive story with this post. There's just no way we should be relaxing the rules.

Deaths yesterday across Europe:

Spain 2
Italy 87
Germany 24
France 52
Turkey 28
Belgium 42
Sweden 84
Portugal 14
Ireland 6
Poland 13
Romania 13
Hungary 8
Netherlands 28

UK 324

[Grumps]

Sorry to blight the positive story with this post. There's just no way we should be relaxing the rules.

Deaths yesterday across Europe:

Spain 2
Italy 87
Germany 24
France 52
Turkey 28
Belgium 42
Sweden 84
Portugal 14
Ireland 6
Poland 13
Romania 13
Hungary 8
Netherlands 28

UK 324

Perhaps we'd be similar if we all used the same counting data

[dsr]

You’ve certainly latched on to the phrase I used about ‘banging on’ about this - try one of your own. Don’t think anyone advised these people to venture abroad on planes, but common sense would tell a baboon that it wasn’t a terribly good idea. Have a good party.

Dodgy business when you start using common sense rather than following government advice. Government advice is there for a reason.

One thing you've never explained - you have been very scathing on here about someone choosing to follow government advice and going on holiday in March, when according to you a baboon would have known that that money should be written off as a bad debt. And you've been very proud of yourself that you didn't fly to Ardnamurghty airport. But without going into specifics, did the cancellation of your holiday result in a significant financial loss running into possibly thousands of pounds? And if it had, would it have made a difference?

[Devils_Advocate]

There's just no way we should be relaxing the rules.

Seems to be growing support from SAGE (aka the science) for this viewpoint

[Billy Balfour]

Seems to be growing support from SAGE (aka the science) for this viewpoint

Yeah, but what do experts know.

[joey13]

Dodgy business when you start using common sense rather than following government advice. Government advice is there for a reason.

One thing you've never explained - you have been very scathing on here about someone choosing to follow government advice and going on holiday in March, when according to you a baboon would have known that that money should be written off as a bad debt. And you've been very proud of yourself that you didn't fly to Ardnamurghty airport. But without going into specifics, did the cancellation of your holiday result in a significant financial loss running into possibly thousands of pounds? And if it had, would it have made a difference?

Another one bought into the cult of Johnson, his own advisor couldn’t follow government advice

[TVC15]

Perhaps we'd be similar if we all used the same counting data

You still here ?
Since you won’t go away (even when you said you would you lasted about an hour) why don’t you tell us all how “our counting data” differs from all the countries listed.

You seem to be adamant in supporting the UK government blindly whatever the number of deaths we report and irrespective of what even members of your own party say about the huge mistakes made.

The number of deaths in the UK is also being significantly understated - unless you believe that the excess death numbers not being included are just a bit of a coincidence.

So tell us all what are these other countries doing in under reporting their numbers in the way you claim over and above what the UK are doing ?

Try dealing in facts and posting credible links for once.

[martin_p]

One of the earliest cases pre lockdown was a child came back from Italy skiing. Became ill and a few days later diagnosed, school closed down etc. No one else in his household/family got the virus from him.

No, it was his dad that had it, they closed the school down for a deep clean as his child had returned to school before his father was diagnosed.

[Devils_Advocate]

You still here ?
Since you won’t go away (even when you said you would you lasted about an hour) why don’t you tell us all how “our counting data” differs from all the countries listed.

You seem to be adamant in supporting the UK government blindly whatever the number of deaths we report and irrespective of what even members of your own party say about the huge mistakes made.

The number of deaths in the UK is also being significantly understated - unless you believe that the excess death numbers not being included are just a bit of a coincidence.

So tell us all what are these other countries doing in under reporting their numbers in the way you claim over and above what the UK are doing ?

Try dealing in facts and posting credible links for once.

I know its hard but unless he offers a proper contribution to the discussion ignore him. If he does offer something then we should treat him with respect and engage with him but if not just ignore

He thrives on getting people involved in petty squabbles and nit picking and then gets upset and gets a thread closed when people finally have enough and tell him straight

I dont want these kind of threads to disappear so bite your tongue and dont give them the oxygen they crave

Feel free to remind me of this next time I get suckered in

[Zlatan]

Edited - good advice from my “alter ego”

[Grumps]

You still here ?
Since you won’t go away (even when you said you would you lasted about an hour) why don’t you tell us all how “our counting data” differs from all the countries listed.

You seem to be adamant in supporting the UK government blindly whatever the number of deaths we report and irrespective of what even members of your own party say about the huge mistakes made.

The number of deaths in the UK is also being significantly understated - unless you believe that the excess death numbers not being included are just a bit of a coincidence.

So tell us all what are these other countries doing in under reporting their numbers in the way you claim over and above what the UK are doing ?

Try dealing in facts and posting credible links for once.

I have no inclination to engage with someone who enjoys the glory of calling someone a nazi. Unless you want to be responsible for getting another thread closing, follow your own advice... Bore off

[Grumps]

I know its hard but unless he offers a proper contribution to the discussion ignore him. If he does offer something then we should treat him with respect and engage with him but if not just ignore

He thrives on getting people involved in petty squabbles and nit picking and then gets upset and gets a thread closed when people finally have enough and tell him straight

I dont want these kind of threads to disappear so bite your tongue and dont give them the oxygen they crave

Feel free to remind me of this next time I get suckered in

It will disappear if people continue with vile insults, and you compliment them on it

[TVC15]

I know its hard but unless he offers a proper contribution to the discussion ignore him. If he does offer something then we should treat him with respect and engage with him but if not just ignore

He thrives on getting people involved in petty squabbles and nit picking and then gets upset and gets a thread closed when people finally have enough and tell him straight

I dont want these kind of threads to disappear so bite your tongue and dont give them the oxygen they crave

Feel free to remind me of this next time I get suckered in

You are probably right !!
As much as he annoys me (and it’s a f’in lot) what annoys me even more because it is a million times more important than him is the data reporting argument that is often thrown out by those trying to support this government.
It’s the same people who were using the country by country graphs as a way of saying how well the UK were doing a few weeks ago when lots of sensible people were firstly saying we are behind these countries in the timeline and secondly we were not including the care home numbers in the earlier figures.
As I’m sure you agree this country is understating the death numbers in the same way others possibly maybe too - and the reason for this is not to try and look good but probably more to do with the UK and other countries lost control and had no idea of what was going on for a while.

[Zlatan]

Sorry to blight the positive story with this post. There's just no way we should be relaxing the rules.

Deaths yesterday across Europe:

Spain 2
Italy 87
Germany 24
France 52
Turkey 28
Belgium 42
Sweden 84
Portugal 14
Ireland 6
Poland 13
Romania 13
Hungary 8
Netherlands 28

UK 324

I’m struggling to think why our figure is so much higher than the rest, especially if we have been leading the fight in Europe and we have the best approach...

[ClaretTony]

You still here ?
Since you won’t go away (even when you said you would you lasted about an hour)

I’ll decide who is still here and who isn’t. You were involved yesterday when I felt it necessary to issue the warning. One poster has since had his account suspended for three months and I won’t hesitate continuing with those actions.

Decent posters are staying away because of this pathetic bickering. It’s not a kid’s playground.

[Devils_Advocate]

You are probably right !!
As much as he annoys me (and it’s a f’in lot) what annoys me even more because it is a million times more important than him is the data reporting argument that is often thrown out by those trying to support this government.
It’s the same people who were using the country by country graphs as a way of saying how well the UK were doing a few weeks ago when lots of sensible people were firstly saying we are behind these countries in the timeline and secondly we were not including the care home numbers in the earlier figures.
As I’m sure you agree this country is understating the death numbers in the same way others possibly maybe too - and the reason for this is not to try and look good but probably more to do with the UK and other countries lost control and had no idea of what was going on for a while.

Theres been some good discussion on all sides of the debate just ruined by people wanting to disrupt and distract or maybe they genuinely dont realise how debilitating they are being to the overall discussion

Again I know its hard and I struggle with it but if we only engage with people debating positively (which are the majority) the other posts will just disappear down the thread with no impact

It also stops us having a go at people and ending up looking the bad guys

Anyhow here's to some good serious debate