Covid-19

[Devils_Advocate]

DA,I suggest you read JM's post at 7:17am if you believe I have misunderstood.
As for your belief, I'm 'Getting upset over the comments,' that's made my day! Just about the most amusing thing I've read on here for weeks!
The point I was trying to make,(obviously poorly) was that using the German government policies of the 1930's and comparing them to the Johnson government now is frankly a sh!t analogy and hardly constructive to 'sensible' debate. Hope that helps.

I've read it and still think you misunderstood however I will concede that it was made in such a simplistic throwaway manner it wasn't very clear.

There is though a very sensible debate to be had using the example of the success of the Nazi party and how that kind of political behaviour is happening at the moment and just the mention of the Nazi party shouldn't be enough for people to get uber defensive as that in my opinion is more guilty of stifling constructive debate.

If you wanted constructive debate you could have demanded JM explain himself before jumping to a conclusion.

[dermotdermot]

As far as I remember, there was a sharp increase in cases in the north east a few weeks after Cummings travelled up there. Arrogant little sod as well, the way he tried to defend his actions on the doorstep. I hope he goes. Always has struck me as extremely creepy.

[AndrewJB]

Look at Johnson’s political history, and you see this time and time again. A disregard for rules, and an unwillingness to negotiate and compromise. And the absence of guiding principles. It’s no surprise that he would seek advice from a man known for wanting to win the argument at all costs, and willing to tell whatever lie is necessary to do so. And take the line of defending him as he’s done, because evidence is there that Johnson doesn’t believe rules apply to him and those in his circle.

[Billy Balfour]

Who????

Yep, I was the same. He must have drawn the short straw.

[Billy Balfour]

This govt is fast losing allies.

This is a Tweet from The Times’ head of news, Katherine Faulkner:

What Cummings did was bad, but actually, the ministerial tweets defending it are much, much worse. That even the health secretary and the AG are willing to risk undermining public health messaging, that is literally keeping people alive, to save his skin is utterly extraordinary.

[BigRedrose]

I've read it and still think you misunderstood however I will concede that it was made in such a simplistic throwaway manner it wasn't very clear.

There is though a very sensible debate to be had using the example of the success of the Nazi party and how that kind of political behaviour is happening at the moment and just the mention of the Nazi party shouldn't be enough for people to get uber defensive as that in my opinion is more guilty of stifling constructive debate.

If you wanted constructive debate you could have demanded JM explain himself before jumping to a conclusion.

I'm sorry DA, but it appears you are the one that is misunderstood. I asked JM this, in my first response to his post this morning;

'Wow. Which Conservative policies are you imagining are similar to those of the Nazi party?'

Is that not a (polite)request for him to explain which policies he refers too?
It is also noted, he has not yet answered the question, but let others answer for him.

[jackmiggins]

Oh you and Jack were just joshing! Well silly me. Doh!
But does it really add to the debate, or is just meant to be a comment to rile the Conservative voters on here?

Think it’s pretty obvious which tattoo you wear. Good tip - write down (crayon is ok) the evidencial points of this debacle and then have a think.

[jackmiggins]

Btw - I wasn’t referring to any Tory policies in particular - rather the ethos. Nice attempt to detract, but, somehow totally predictable. Hope you understand?

[JohnDearyMe]

Sunday Times have covered a big piece of work that has reviewed Johnsons failure in March to get on top of the virus.

This is a massive read and dont expect it to make any ripples on here whilst the Cummings saga rolls on but once it dies sown im sure we'll be seeing this report broken down into more manageable chunks and getting the attention it deserves

http://archive.is/qbvY7

Thanks for the link. That is farmore damning for the government than the Cummings episode

[CombatClaret]

I'm sorry DA, but it appears you are the one that is misunderstood. I asked JM this, in my first response to his post this morning;
'Wow. Which Conservative policies are you imagining are similar to those of the Nazi party?'
Is that not a (polite)request for him to explain which policies he refers too?
It is also noted, he has not yet answered the question, but let others answer for him.

You're still entirely missing the point, either deliberately or through lack of understanding.

[NewClaret]

Just watched the video of him leaving his house. Again, the media acting recklessly and breaking the same laws/advice they are accusing him of breaking.

Still hold the view that their complete disregard for social distancing - basically in a scrum with one another- are worse than his original offence (notwithstanding the new allegations).

Have to wonder what was in that plastic bag though? He was apparently on the way to Downing St, so maybe it was Boris’ record collection that he’d asked to be returned??

[jackmiggins]

Don’t think Bobo has a record collection - more likely to be scrolls.

[nyclaret]

You know as well as I do that accusing someone of being a nazi in today's society is toxic. Like I said, it offers nothing to the debate.

I’m sorry, I must’ve missed the part where I accused someone of being a Nazi?

[jackmiggins]

Off to Greece now - small print exempts this from the dictat (admittedly, it is particularly tiny, but you can just make it out - under the ‘T’ of ALERT). Yasoo.

[BigRedrose]

Think it’s pretty obvious which tattoo you wear. Good tip - write down (crayon is ok) the evidencial points of this debacle and then have a think.

Listen daft lad, I've more 43 years of Labour Party activism and 39 years as a trade union rep for the National Union of Teachers under my belt. I've fought more battles against the tories than you've had hot dinners. I called you out this morning for a stupid, puerile comment and clearly you didn't like it.
Your childish comments on here about Conservatives are clear attempts at stirring trouble rather than sensible debate.
It's fair to say you are a masstorybaiter.

[CombatClaret]

Just watched the video of him leaving his house. Again, the media acting recklessly and breaking the same laws/advice they are accusing him of breaking.
Still hold the view that their complete disregard for social distancing - basically in a scrum with one another- are worse than his original offence (notwithstanding the new allegations).

There is no law about 2 meter distancing, there was regulation (essentially law) about breaking lockdown which Cummings appears to have broken.

We've now moved beyond that phase of lockdown and those journos are simply using the loophole the government gave businesses.
In your workplace you need to observe, where possible, the social distancing guidance.
Cumming had no such handy loophole, so much so they're now inventing them and trying to say they existed in the past just to help him.

But nice try for trying to conflate the two situations which are totally non-comparable. It's a good pitch but I don't think you'll find any takers here.

[BigRedrose]

I’m sorry, I must’ve missed the part where I accused someone of being a Nazi?

I was referring to JM's post as well you know.

[jackmiggins]

Sorry but you’re wrong in so, so many ways. I personally wouldn’t ally myself to any political persuasion - simply have no faith in modern politicians - think Bobo has actually been involved with most of them!!
You are on some different track - best reverse and settle down in a siding.

[CombatClaret]

https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1264532041380638725

Something from the Labour party. And quite like the Trump, often the thing to do is to simply use their own words to damn them.

[BigRedrose]

Sorry but you’re wrong in so, so many ways. I personally wouldn’t ally myself to any political persuasion - simply have no faith in modern politicians - think Bobo has actually been involved with most of them!!
You are on some different track - best reverse and settle down in a siding.

The thing is, I haven't accused you of being from any particular political persuasion, unlike your assumptions of me. I really don't have a problem with anybody's political leanings, as long as they back up their beliefs with reasoned debate.
For what it's worth, I would agree with much of the criticism of the current governments handling of the situation.

[CombatClaret]

Turns out the 12th April when was spotted with his family 30miles away from Durham at Barnard Castle just happens to be his Wife's birthday.
Was this to protect his child's health.

Untitled-1.jpg (115.66 KiB) Viewed 2823 times

[Bordeauxclaret]

That’s his wife I believe.

[CombatClaret]

That’s his wife I believe.

Sorry getting mixed up, his mothers Birthday is also being reported as in April.

[ksrclaret]

By the far the most incriminating thing about this whole situation is the fact his London address is in... wait for it... Islington.

I'm sure Wrongo will be along shortly to call him out for being an Islington bubble dwelling elite.

[NewClaret]

Turns out the 12th April when was spotted with his family 30miles away from Durham at Barnard Castle just happens to be his Wife's birthday.
Was this to protect his child's health.

Untitled-1.jpg

Did you find that on social media?

[CombatClaret]

Did you find that on social media?

Yes I did, fabricated then?

[NewClaret]

There is no law about 2 meter distancing, there was regulation (essentially law) about breaking lockdown which Cummings appears to have broken.

We've now moved beyond that phase of lockdown and those journos are simply using the loophole the government gave businesses.
In your workplace you need to observe, where possible, the social distancing guidance.
Cumming had no such handy loophole, so much so they're now inventing them and trying to say they existed in the past just to help him.

But nice try for trying to conflate the two situations which are totally non-comparable. It's a good pitch but I don't think you'll find any takers here.

But it was possible to be 2m apart in that situation. They chose not to be. Plus they were in a public space, not a workplace, so I’m not sure that applies in any event.

And I thought yesterday everyone was saying that there is sufficient ambiguity in the governments guidance on self-isolation/circumstances m... and that Cummings was doing just that - exploiting a loophole (but should still be sacked)?

Will clarify again the point you missed, or chose not to reference, this is notwithstanding the other alleged trips. If they are proven, and I see no reason they shouldn’t be with all the technology available, he should be sacked.

Final point - find it very strange the media have sat on this for weeks. Why would they do that?

[NewClaret]

Yes I did, fabricated then?

No, I’m just pleased that you didn’t go looking it up in CH yourself

So 12/04 is the day he went to the castle?

[AndrewJB]

But it was possible to be 2m apart in that situation. They chose not to be. Plus they were in a public space, not a workplace, so I’m not sure that applies in any event.

And I thought yesterday everyone was saying that there is sufficient ambiguity in the governments guidance on self-isolation/circumstances m... and that Cummings was doing just that - exploiting a loophole (but should still be sacked)?

Will clarify again the point you missed, or chose not to reference, this is notwithstanding the other alleged trips. If they are proven, and I see no reason they shouldn’t be with all the technology available, he should be sacked.

Final point - find it very strange the media have sat on this for weeks. Why would they do that?

You only have to look at BBC political journalists - their backgrounds, and the absence of doing much else but parroting the words of their sources - to get that answer. Kuenssberg responding to the revelation of the mistress’ visit: “This is a massive story” Her replying to the revelation that Cummings broke lockdown: “Sources close to Cummings say he did everything within the rules” She’s an embarrassment.

[CombatClaret]

No, I’m just pleased that you didn’t go looking it up in CH yourself

So 12/04 is the day he went to the castle?

Well you can, 4th Aug 2010
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ory?page=4

Eyewitnesses put him at Barnard Castle 30miles from his family's Durham home (250miles from his own home) on his wife's Birthday.

He was spotted again in Durham on April 19th a day after being photographed in London.

[AndrewJB]

I think we all need to check our freezers for the PM.

Ten Tory MPs now calling for Cummings to go.

[ksrclaret]

You only have to look at BBC political journalists - their backgrounds, and the absence of doing much else but parroting the words of their sources - to get that answer. Kuenssberg responding to the revelation of the mistress’ visit: “This is a massive story” Her replying to the revelation that Cummings broke lockdown: “Sources close to Cummings say he did everything within the rules” She’s an embarrassment.

Laura Kuenssberg has to be on the pay roll.

When people like Julia Hartley-Brewer and Piers Morgan are incandescent about this, you know something fishy is going on with her.

[FactualFrank]

BREAKING: Elon Musk has turned up at 10 Downing St with a submarine.

[tiger76]

BREAKING: Elon Musk has turned up at 10 Downing St with a submarine.

Is it yellow?

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Laura Kuenssberg has to be on the pay roll.

When people like Julia Hartley-Brewer and Piers Morgan are incandescent about this, you know something fishy is going on with her.

Interesting to see that there was a tweet to Kuenssberg on 10th May asking if she could ask Johnson why Cummings was in Durham!

[android]

Here is a new a Statement from Durham Police. It confirms they spoke to Mr Cummings senior and confirmed that his son was self isolating in another part of the house.

Firstly this contradicts the press release that number 10 put out this morning as they denied police were involved and secondly they confirmed he was isolating in the same house. Not only should Cummings go but this Government should now go as we now have proof they lie.

If we are interested in the truth then it seems the revised Durham police statement suggests that it is Cummings/Govt who are telling the truth and it was Durham police who were initially misleading the public (at best or arguably being untruthful). It turns out that it was Cummings's father who initiated contact with the police and not the other way around. And the police now say that the purpose of the call was to discuss security and there is no longer any mention of lockdown rules being discussed.

[tiger76]

If we are interested in the truth then it seems the revised Durham police statement suggests that it is Cummings/Govt who are telling the truth and it was Durham police who were initially misleading the public (at best or arguably being untruthful). It turns out that it was Cummings's father who initiated contact with the police and not the other way around. And the police now say that the purpose of the call was to discuss security and there is no longer any mention of lockdown rules being discussed.

This ex-copper doesn't agree.

'Very clear' Cummings broke lockdown rules - ex-Durham police chief

It is "very clear" Dominic Cummings broke the UK lockdown rules and his actions will now make policing more difficult, former Durham Police Chief Constable Mike Barton says.

Cummings, Boris Johnson's chief advisor, has been criticised for travelling from London to Durham while his wife had coronavirus symptoms and is also facing fresh allegations of a second trip to the north east.

Regarding the first trip, Cummings said he acted "reasonably and legally" as he travelled for childcare purposes.

Barton said Cummings' defence is "rubbish".

"The area they [the government] are going to, which mentions children, does not allow you to do what they did," he said.

"The Deputy Chief Medical Officer made it really clear that it has got to be a life-threatening issue. This was not life threatening.

"Let's not beat around bush. I am making really clear - 40 years of policing understanding the law and interpreting the law - reasonable excuse is not to do what they did."

Barton said "of course" Cummings' actions would make policing more difficult.

"What makes it really hard, not only fact Cummings did this but the fact he is completely unrepentant," Barton added.

"Not only that, but you have got a government minister yesterday, [transport secretary] Mr Shapps, making it up as he was going along simply to save the skin of an advisor to the prime minister.

"I think it is appalling."

[NewClaret]

You only have to look at BBC political journalists - their backgrounds, and the absence of doing much else but parroting the words of their sources - to get that answer. Kuenssberg responding to the revelation of the mistress’ visit: “This is a massive story” Her replying to the revelation that Cummings broke lockdown: “Sources close to Cummings say he did everything within the rules” She’s an embarrassment.

Please do not tell me you’re saying Kuenssberg is a Tory sympathiser???

[Zlatan]

Please do not tell me you’re saying Kuenssberg is a Tory sympathiser???

Bears do defecate in the woods and the Pope is catholic

[android]

This ex-copper doesn't agree.

When you say the ex-Durham copper doesn't agree, I assume you mean he doesn't agree with the current Durham coppers? As in, the ex-copper thinks Cummings broke the rules whereas the current coppers either didn't think he broke the rules or just didn't think.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Seems Johnson will be taking the press conference now

[tiger76]

Away from all the Cummings distraction this is the reality in the real world.

Care homes 'could go to the wall' due to coronavirus costs

Care homes "could go to the wall" due to rising costs from the coronavirus pandemic, providers have said.

Thirty out of 102 care providers contacted by the BBC also said none of their staff had been tested, though this was down from 75 in April.

Care sector leaders said the government response was "patchy and inconsistent".

The Department of Health and Social Care said all care staff and residents can now be tested, regardless of symptoms.

This is where the efforts of the government should be directed not on that idiot Cummings.

[Grumps]

I see the labour party are taking the correct stance in this. Let's ask questions, obtain evidence, then make a decision.

[tiger76]

NY barber who ignored lockdown tests positive for Covid-19

A New York barber who ignored lockdown restrictions and continued providing haircuts has tested positive for the coronavirus.

Anyone who received a haircut from Broadway in Kingston, New York, in the last three weeks should get tested for Covid-19, officials said.

The barber has not been publicly identified.

"Learning that a barbershop has been operating illicitly for weeks with a Covid-19 positive employee is extraordinarily disheartening," Ulster County Health Commissioner Carol Smith said.

"As much as we would all like to go out and get a professional haircut, this kind of direct contact has the potential to dramatically spread this virus throughout our community and beyond."

New York state was once the epicentre of the US coronavirus outbreak, with more than 28,000 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University.

This one example shows why the restrictions should be heeded,who knows how many customers could have been infected due to this recklessness.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Johnson to announce he will ‘stand by’ Cummings in the 5pm press conference. Presume he doesn’t mean literally as that’ll be another rule he’d break.

[tiger76]

When you say the ex-Durham copper doesn't agree, I assume you mean he doesn't agree with the current Durham coppers? As in, the ex-copper thinks Cummings broke the rules whereas the current coppers either didn't think he broke the rules or just didn't think.

This boils down to the rules being left open to interpretation,my impression was you could only move if there was a life-threatening situation imminent. Now i don't see anything in the Cummings families circumstances that suggested that this was the case,and this is why there is questions being asked by many including Conservative MP'S.

Tory MP 'sorry' for initially backing Cummings

The fallout continues in the UK over allegations Prime Minister Boris Johnson's chief aide broke lockdown rules.

Cabinet ministers have backed Dominic Cummings but some Conservative MPs are calling for him to resign.

Now, one Tory backbencher has apologised for initially lending his support.

In a Twitter post, Essex MP Robert Halfon had said of the criticism, "Is this really the kind of country we are?"

But in a Facebook post he has now said: “The tweet was wrong because many thousands of people in Harlow and across the country have suffered and struggled enormously during the coronavirus. It has caused significant pain and hardship. My tweet did not recognise that. I am sorry."

He added that "no one – whoever they are – should be above the regulations or the rule of law" and that if any rule had been breached then "there should be serious consequences".

It follows newspaper reports that Cummings made two trips from his London home to his parents' property - about 260 miles away.

Now the is has Dominic Cummings breached the lockdown rules in place at that time,if he has,and i stress that's still an if,then his position's untenable i'm afraid.

[Billy Balfour]

BREAKING: The police are at the Cummings residence.

BREAKING: Clarification - it's the fashion police.

[tiger76]

Johnson to announce he will ‘stand by’ Cummings in the 5pm press conference. Presume he doesn’t mean literally as that’ll be another rule he’d break.

I'll wait and see what he states in the press conference,but if he stands by Cummings,when numerous Conservative MP'S are openly calling for him to go,then he'd better be certain of the facts,because if he's found to be lying later on he'll be causing huge issues for the government he leads.

[FactualFrank]

Johnson to announce he will ‘stand by’ Cummings in the 5pm press conference. Presume he doesn’t mean literally as that’ll be another rule he’d break.

BORIS: You can visit your parents, but not a lover.

OEDIPUS: Errr... Question.

[android]

Tiger76 I think you have got the wrong end of the stick about my post. I wasn't expressing an opinion on whether or not Cummings had broken the lockdown rules. My post was about Durham police changing their tune. They previously misled us into thinking they had initiated contact with Cummings or his family to discuss lockdown rules. We now know that it was Cummings's father who initiated contact with the police to discuss security.
Make of that what you will.