Covid-19

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TVC15
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Re: Covid-19

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:10 am

The data on deaths in terms of timings and regions are getting distorted.
For example there was a pretty large increase in numbers yesterday for the northwest but it transpires that the figure from the Royal Liverpool hospital were a collation of the last few weeks and their 21 deaths included a death dating back as long ago as the 19th March.
As for deaths in Burnley - we know there has been a number of deaths in Burnley already this week. Where they are in the numbers may not be clear for a while - it may well be that initially these numbers are reported by hospital rather than home address....or there is a similar delay to the Liverpool one (or both)

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Re: Covid-19

Post by thatdberight » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:19 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:12 am
With respect, you are wrong. It wasnt 87% it was, as can be seen below 72%.
And, with respect, a week is a long time in politics as the latest poll on the same question shows.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:20 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:05 am
Good to see the bickering and point scoring has stopped
I'm embarrassed for them. Especially on such a subject.
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Damo » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:28 am

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/30/swe ... ssion=true

Theres no lockdown in sweden
It seems they are playing the long game, similar to the way we wanted to do it.
A collapsed economy will kill far more people than coronavirus
I suppose you can be seen to be killing people with kindness

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TheFamilyCat » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:29 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:12 am
With respect, you are wrong. It wasnt 87% it was, as can be seen below 72%.

And critically , it was the poll result to a similar, but different, question.




Either way, when the public can see miracles being worked in the creation of functioning, staffed hospitals, out of thin air, in 9 DAYS. It's good to see the majority of the nation putting irrelevant partisan, tribal party politics to one side and getting behind the government.

A government, who ever they may have been, who've been handed a poisoned chalice, with this unprecedented global pandemic.
I'll hold my hands up, I was wrong. The figure you were so gleeful about was actually 93%

A snap YouGov survey, conducted overnight, finds that the public overwhelmingly support these new measures. Fully 93% of Britons back the move

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Re: Covid-19

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:31 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:40 am
At eleven o'clock today, Prince Charles will open the first Nightingale hospital in London.
A fully functional hospital with the capacity to treat around 4000 patients. It will dwarf anything comparable in this country. The monumental effort by the Government, civil servants, NHS staff and the army has been outstanding.

The logistics of creating a working hospital out of thin air, in normal times, would have been challenging. But to do it under social distancing rules and everything else associated with this current unprecedented situation is nothing short of a miracle.

9 DAYS AGO NOTHING. TODAY A 4000 PATIENT HOSPITAL!

Even the government's most fiercest critics will have to concede they, and all concerned , have moved mountains.
I for one take my hat off to them all. Fabulous effort.

👍
Wrongo going full Gove.

Sorry but while I'm not going to diminish the achievement of what's been done it's not a "fully functioning hospital" there's no X-Ray dept, Cardiology dept, A&E, Bloods etc etc. It's a large building with lots of beds and basic monitoring equipment. And it wasn't out of thin air the building was already there to begin with.

This is like the '40 new hospitals' which turned out to mostly be upgrades to old ones.

Very impressive and much needed but don't pretend they built a full on hospital. And looking at the timeless video they definitely did not do it whilst keeping to social distancing.
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Spijed » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:37 am

They are obviously confident in Germany that they have it under control as Schalke have returned to training.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:51 am

Damo wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:28 am
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/30/swe ... ssion=true

Theres no lockdown in sweden
It seems they are playing the long game, similar to the way we wanted to do it.
A collapsed economy will kill far more people than coronavirus
I suppose you can be seen to be killing people with kindness
Time will tell on this one. If you compare Sweden and Norway then Norway's new cases curve is flattening out whilst in Sweden cases are rising.

In terms of new daily deaths Sweden is now matching Spain and Italy.

How long Sweden can hold their nerve with this policy if the data continues on its current trajectory and doctors and scientists continue to speak out against this policy is one to keep an eye on but if they do then I guess we will see over time if the strategy was right, wrong or just indifferent
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:59 am

Bfcboyo wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:10 am
Has Burnley had any confirmed cases or are we just brushing it off ?

For all those living in and around Burnley take comfort in knowing that Covid 19 is avoiding Burnley . It simply doesn't want to come here as nobody and nothing likes a trip to Burnley.

Covid 19 last seen heading back down the m66 singing Sloop John B.
I did mention a friends Mother yesterday had died, she was from Burnley.
Two others came on reporting family bereavements, but don’t know where they lived.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:07 am

CombatClaret wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:31 am

Sorry but while I'm not going to diminish the achievement of what's been done it's not a "fully functioning hospital" there's no X-Ray dept, Cardiology dept, A&E, Bloods etc etc. It's a large building with lots of beds and basic monitoring equipment. And it wasn't out of thin air the building was already there to begin with.

This is like the '40 new hospitals' which turned out to mostly be upgrades to old ones.

Very impressive and much needed but don't pretend they built a full on hospital. And looking at the timeless video they definitely did not do it whilst keeping to social distancing.
Hi Combat, yes, we all know not to turn up at Nightingale with a broken arm and we won't be taken there with a heart attack. You can think of it as a new "Covid-19 ward." I'd suggest a "covid-19 ICU" though, I'm unsure whether every single bed in there, whether its 500 or 4,000, will all be equipped with full ICU services.

Some of these "but it doesn't do this, it doesn't do that" comments are a little like the guy who wins £100 million on the Euro lottery and is complaining that 2 months ago someone won £150 million. :( :( :(
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:10 am

Lord Rothbury wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:03 am
Just looked at a chart recording yesterday’s deaths worldwide .France recorded 1,355 the day previous it was just over 500.Does anyone know a reason for this as it seems a shocking increase if true.
Here you go. Not sure when the UK is going to comply with this standardised reporting.
ED18FF4F-F7C8-439E-9C88-E6EF31DEF8D1.png
ED18FF4F-F7C8-439E-9C88-E6EF31DEF8D1.png (316.42 KiB) Viewed 3620 times
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Re: Covid-19

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:20 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:07 am
Hi Combat, yes, we all know not to turn up at Nightingale with a broken arm and we won't be taken there with a heart attack. You can think of it as a new "Covid-19 ward." I'd suggest a "covid-19 ICU" though, I'm unsure whether every single bed in there, whether its 500 or 4,000, will all be equipped with full ICU services.

Some of these "but it doesn't do this, it doesn't do that" comments are a little like the guy who wins £100 million on the Euro lottery and is complaining that 2 months ago someone won £150 million. :( :( :(
Nightingale is meant to provide critical care beds which is one step down from Intensive Care, which will still only be available at proper hospitals.

I'm very happy to applaud the excellent work and happy that we've got a new very high capacity Covid-19 ward.
I would never have commented had a certain poster tried to pretend that a fully fledged hospital had been 'built' from 'thin air' in 9 days, that's simply not true.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by jrgbfc » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:21 am

Another NHS worker has sadly passed away after contracting the virus. 36 year old woman from the Midlands with no underlying health issues. So sad all these people who are losing their lives trying to help others.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TheFamilyCat » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:23 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:07 am
Hi Combat, yes, we all know not to turn up at Nightingale with a broken arm and we won't be taken there with a heart attack. You can think of it as a new "Covid-19 ward." I'd suggest a "covid-19 ICU" though, I'm unsure whether every single bed in there, whether its 500 or 4,000, will all be equipped with full ICU services.

Some of these "but it doesn't do this, it doesn't do that" comments are a little like the guy who wins £100 million on the Euro lottery and is complaining that 2 months ago someone won £150 million. :( :( :(
I don't think there are any complaints about what the hospital isn't equipped to do. More a case of highlighting inaccuracies. I suspect phrases like "built a fully functioning 4000-bed hospital from thin air" are being used repeatedly in certain newspapers.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by AlargeClaret » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:28 am

CombatClaret wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:31 am
Wrongo going full Gove.

Sorry but while I'm not going to diminish the achievement of what's been done it's not a "fully functioning hospital" there's no X-Ray dept, Cardiology dept, A&E, Bloods etc etc. It's a large building with lots of beds and basic monitoring equipment. And it wasn't out of thin air the building was already there to begin with.

This is like the '40 new hospitals' which turned out to mostly be upgrades to old ones.

Very impressive and much needed but don't pretend they built a full on hospital. And looking at the timeless video they definitely did not do it whilst keeping to social distancing.
This is a “pop up” emergency ICU facility for Covid and it’s almost ridiculous you should berate it for not having a@e ,X-ray ,cardiology etc , it’s not what it is or was ever going to be ,neither are the other U.K. units . They’re based off field hospitals and it’s about quick access ,wide isles and ( sadly) fast turnover . Your point about social distancing while building it is also petty in the extreme . I can’t argue with you re: previous govt nhs promises/policies but this is no time for political d1ck swinging
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Re: Covid-19

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:33 am

AlargeClaret wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:28 am
This is a “pop up” emergency ICU facility for Covid and it’s almost ridiculous you should berate it for not having a@e ,X-ray ,cardiology etc , it’s not what it is or was ever going to be ,neither are the other U.K. units . They’re based off field hospitals and it’s about quick access ,wide isles and ( sadly) fast turnover . Your point about social distancing while building it is also petty in the extreme . I can’t argue with you re: previous govt nhs promises/policies but this is no time for political d1ck swinging
Read my post and the one I was replying to! I did not berate it for lack of anything. I was calling out a poster who was trying to give the impression it was a proper fully fledged hospital built from scratch and not the field hospital in a pre existing building you correctly label it as.

I was calling out exaggerations and untruths.
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Quicknick » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:34 am

jrgbfc wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:21 am
Another NHS worker has sadly passed away after contracting the virus. 36 year old woman from the Midlands with no underlying health issues. So sad all these people who are losing their lives trying to help others.
How do you know she had no underlying health issues?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Spijed » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:34 am

AlargeClaret wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:28 am
This is a “pop up” emergency ICU facility for Covid and it’s almost ridiculous you should berate it for not having a@e ,X-ray ,cardiology etc , it’s not what it is or was ever going to be ,neither are the other U.K. units . They’re based off field hospitals and it’s about quick access ,wide isles and ( sadly) fast turnover . Your point about social distancing while building it is also petty in the extreme . I can’t argue with you re: previous govt nhs promises/policies but this is no time for political d1ck swinging
There seems to be something odd about these extra beds though if the NHS is telling doctors that they are going to have to make life and death decisions on who to save and who is likely to die because of the shortage of beds and ventilators.

There are either enough beds with these new 'super' hospitals or there isn't.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:38 am

Spijed wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:34 am
There seems to be something odd about these extra beds though if the NHS is telling doctors that they are going to have to make life and death decisions on who to save and who is likely to die because of the shortage of beds and ventilators.

There are either enough beds with these new 'super' hospitals or there isn't.
Ventilators & other ICU machines (& trained staff) will be the issues not beds, as stated Nightingale is not Intensive Care where multiple organ failures can potentially be treated.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:38 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:07 am
Hi Combat, yes, we all know not to turn up at Nightingale with a broken arm and we won't be taken there with a heart attack. You can think of it as a new "Covid-19 ward." I'd suggest a "covid-19 ICU" though, I'm unsure whether every single bed in there, whether its 500 or 4,000, will all be equipped with full ICU services.

Some of these "but it doesn't do this, it doesn't do that" comments are a little like the guy who wins £100 million on the Euro lottery and is complaining that 2 months ago someone won £150 million. :( :( :(
It’s nothing like that and you probably know that.
Nobody is saying that building these hospitals are not an important or the right thing to do.
But it’s obvious that someone on this thread is trying to score points by making out that this is some kind of remarkable feat of engineering.
The building was already there - the rest is about logistics of getting beds and equipment there and partitioning to create rooms. All other utilities were already there.
Hospital bed manufacturers are not an issue in the UK - or any other country.

It’s great that everybody has pulled together to make this happen but it’s little more than an existing huge building with hospital beds in - and that is all that is needed at the moment so I am not saying it should be more.

To use this to say the government is doing a great job is kind of missing the point as to why we need them in the first place. It’s positive that they have recognised that we urgently need increased capacity for what is coming in future weeks - this is again a strategy that has been adopted by other countries where we have benefited from seeing how other counties have coped with the crisis.

Just announced another 2 “field hospitals” btw - one in Harrogate.
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Re: Covid-19

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:40 am

CombatClaret wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:02 pm
Come up a couple times here, lack of PPE was noted at the time. Also it was run purely internally and reaching out to unviersities, animals testing etc was never war gamed. “inadequate ventilation” was also raised.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... overnment/

NHS, Public Health England and Department of Health Influenza Pandemic Planning Documents - 238 pages and 'Ventilator' is mentioned once.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 133656.pdf (2011)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 131040.pdf (2012)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 13_Aug.pdf (2014)

All these documents were written prior to the 2016 test but never updated or revised despite the test being widely regarded as an abject failure.
Top officials admit no mass testing capacity was ever planned in UK despite WHO warnings.
No mass testing planned for in national pandemic plan
No mass testing used to contain virus in 2016 Exercise Cygnus dry run

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -strategy/

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Re: Covid-19

Post by thatdberight » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:43 am

Quicknick wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:34 am
How do you know she had no underlying health issues?
Reportedly (and by inference). Her sister is quoted as saying she was "normally fit and healthy". That's not quite the same but is being taken as the same.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Grumps » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:46 am

Quicknick wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:34 am
How do you know she had no underlying health issues?
I asked this of a medical professional the other week, as many of us have issues that haven't been diagnosed, the only way they will know is when a PM is done. Perhaps the correct wording would be... No known health issues.
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Re: Covid-19

Post by thatdberight » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:48 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:10 am
Here you go. Not sure when the UK is going to comply with this standardised reporting.
In what way is UK reporting different?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:52 am

As I believe it, unless it’s already changed. As per France we are not counting people who die of Covid outside of hospital yet.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:54 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:29 am
I'll hold my hands up, I was wrong. The figure you were so gleeful about was actually 93%
And if you remember the correct figure now. You'll also recall the different question.

Which was do you approve of the decision to lock down the country?

I've posted 3 different opinion polls showing the results for 3 different questions.

Hope that helps to clear things up.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Grumps » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:57 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:52 am
As I believe it, unless it’s already changed. As per France we are not counting people who die of Covid outside of hospital yet.
I thought I'd read that we had started counting these, which was the reason for the big jump on Monday?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:00 pm

thatdberight wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:19 am
And, with respect, a week is a long time in politics as the latest poll on the same question shows.
Again, with respect , there has been details of 4 separate polls posted on here.

The first regarding the lockdown announcement

The second was how the government was handling the crisis as whole.

Third was the speed of response by the government

Most recent was the government's approval ratings

All related, but , to be fair, all subtly different.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:06 pm

Just been watched the unveiling of the first Nightingale hospital, described as "largest critical care unit in the world."

Just shows, that for all the disagreements on here. Out there in the real world. A mammoth effort by the government, NHS staff, the army and countless others who have just quietly gone about their tasks has delivered what was previously unimaginable.

A fabulous achievement.

Fair play to ever man Jack and woman Jane of 'em
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Re: Covid-19

Post by thatdberight » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:10 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:00 pm
Again, with respect , there has been details of 4 separate polls posted on here.

The first regarding the lockdown announcement

The second was how the government was handling the crisis as whole.

Third was the speed of response by the government

Most recent was the government's approval ratings

All related, but , to be fair, all subtly different.
No. Same question about the government's handling of CoVid-19. A week ago very favourable. Not now. You linked it, not me.

Doesn't mean much whether high or low approval. The public are thick as mince. But it is a fact.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:10 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:31 am
Wrongo going full Gove.

Sorry but while I'm not going to diminish the achievement of what's been done it's not a "fully functioning hospital" there's no X-Ray dept, Cardiology dept, A&E, Bloods etc etc. It's a large building with lots of beds and basic monitoring equipment. And it wasn't out of thin air the building was already there to begin with.

This is like the '40 new hospitals' which turned out to mostly be upgrades to old ones.

Very impressive and much needed but don't pretend they built a full on hospital. And looking at the timeless video they definitely did not do it whilst keeping to social distancing.
If that's the case, the fact that they have, potentially, put their lives at risk for others . Then I'm sure youd agree they deserve our utmost appreciation and respect for their selfless efforts.

I for one take my hat off to them.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:14 pm

No they have put other lives at risks - social distancing is not primarily about protecting yourself..it’s about limiting transmission and contacts.
I have not seen the video but if they have not been adhering to social distancing guidelines that is not heroic - it’s stupid.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:16 pm

thatdberight wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:10 pm
No. Same question about the government's handling of CoVid-19. A week ago very favourable. Not now. You linked it, not me.

Doesn't mean much whether high or low approval. The public are thick as mince. But it is a fact.
I've included a link that will include the earlier poll that does indeed, ask about the government's handling, as you say. But the one below is different

The fact that YouGov themselves, say "it's the highest since 2003" shows it's a different poll to the one released last week.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... s-its-gove

"For the first time in nearly a decade, Britain approves of its government

More dramatically still, the latest YouGov data shows, that as a result of the coronavirus crisis, the government now has net positive approval ratings for the first time in almost a decade.

This current net approval figure of +26 is the highest that YouGov has ever recorded in the 1,400 times we have asked the question since 2003."

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Re: Covid-19

Post by tim_noone » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:17 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:06 pm
Just been watched the unveiling of the first Nightingale hospital, described as "largest critical care unit in the world."

Just shows, that for all the disagreements on here. Out there in the real world. A mammoth effort by the government, NHS staff, the army and countless others who have just quietly gone about their tasks has delivered what was previously unimaginable.

A fabulous achievement.

Fair play to ever man Jack and woman Jane of 'em
Tbh though...this is to much to late... and akin to after the Horse as Bolted.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by martin_p » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:18 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:14 pm
No they have put other lives at risks - social distancing is not primarily about protecting yourself..it’s about limiting transmission and contacts.
I have not seen the video but if they have not been adhering to social distancing guidelines that is not heroic - it’s stupid.
Yes, the thinking behind the whole social distancing thing is ‘assume you’ve got it’.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by thatdberight » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:21 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:16 pm
I've included a link that will include the earlier poll that does indeed, ask about the government's handling, as you say. But the one below is different

The fact that YouGov themselves, say "it's the highest since 2003" shows it's a different poll to the one released last week.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... s-its-gove

"For the first time in nearly a decade, Britain approves of its government

More dramatically still, the latest YouGov data shows, that as a result of the coronavirus crisis, the government now has net positive approval ratings for the first time in almost a decade.

This current net approval figure of +26 is the highest that YouGov has ever recorded in the 1,400 times we have asked the question since 2003."
OK. It was a slightly narrower question but let's see how 67% disapproval of the testing capacity issue plays to overall approval of the CoVid19 handling next time that's asked.

You're right though - not exactly the same question .

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:31 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:20 pm
You describe what they've done while helping to create a functioning hospital in 9 days as "stupid"

I could well be wrong, but an awful lot of people will see them as I do. Selfless heroes.

Fair enough.
No I said that IF they have not been socially distancing as another poster who had seen a video is suggesting that would be stupid - in the same way that when video clips of builders not socially distancing on a building site has been universally condemned.

But it’s hardly surprising that you decide to twist it and lie - it’s what you do.

Not disingenuous at all are you ?

“Stay safe”

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Re: Covid-19

Post by martin_p » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:37 pm

We need to remember that these big exhibition spaces, like the EDEXEL and Manchester Central, are designed for the quick construction and tear down of exhibitions of varying complexity. While it looks impressive I suspect both venues have had harder tasks in the last twelve months.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by taio » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:50 pm

martin_p wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:37 pm
We need to remember that these big exhibition spaces, like the EDEXEL and Manchester Central, are designed for the quick construction and tear down of exhibitions of varying complexity. While it looks impressive I suspect both venues have had harder tasks in the last twelve months.
It's a fair point about exhibition space but I doubt there has been harder set-up in the last 12 months when you consider the infrastructure and equipment that needed to be supplied and installed. You are underestimating the massive task that has been undertaken by brilliant people.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:06 pm

martin_p wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:37 pm
We need to remember that these big exhibition spaces, like the EDEXEL and Manchester Central, are designed for the quick construction and tear down of exhibitions of varying complexity. While it looks impressive I suspect both venues have had harder tasks in the last twelve months.
It's a big space full of beds, other countries are doing the same thing but quicker.

"26 MAR 2020 BY MILES ROWLAND

Ferrovial is working for the Spanish government by building makeshift hospitals for free.

The Madrid-based contractor said it was working with the health ministry to convert existing public buildings, such as sports pavilions and trade fairs, into makeshift hospitals.

It is currently in the process of converting the Madrid exhibition centre IFEMA into a field hospital. The finished facility will have a total of 5,500 beds, which Ferrovial said will make it the largest hospital in Europe. The company has offered to build a further field hospital with capacity for 250 ICU beds."

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Re: Covid-19

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:06 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:31 pm
No I said that IF they have not been socially distancing as another poster who had seen a video is suggesting that would be stupid - in the same way that when video clips of builders not socially distancing on a building site has been universally condemned.

But it’s hardly surprising that you decide to twist it and lie - it’s what you do.

Not disingenuous at all are you ?

“Stay safe”
He's on Gove/The Sun mode today. Praise the normal folk to distract from the donkeys they're lead by . Over exaggerate achievements and put words in other people's mouth so he can correct them.
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:14 pm

Grumps wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:57 am
I thought I'd read that we had started counting these, which was the reason for the big jump on Monday?
I am not 100% one way or the other, but I think we are not counting them yet.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:15 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:06 pm
He's on Gove/The Sun mode today. Praise the normal folk to distract from the donkeys they're lead by . Over exaggerate achievements and put words in other people's mouth so he can correct them.

SD.jpg
The only person he is fooling is himself.
He’ll ruin this thread just like he does with every other. It’s inevitable and it’s the one thing that makes him tick and makes him feel he is important. To carry on doing it now going through what we are just shows you the way his mind works and the sad life he must lead.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by thatdberight » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:17 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:06 pm
It's a big space full of beds, other countries are doing the same thing but quicker.
Quicker or earlier?

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Re: Covid-19

Post by thatdberight » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:24 pm

The UK is counting all deaths. The adjustment as of earlier this week was an extra 40 deaths. Still, no point wasting an opportunity to suggest something more.

Update: It does appear that the daily numbers do not include these and they're being collated (and declared) separately - probably due to the much longer time lag in identifying them.
Last edited by thatdberight on Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:24 pm

Scotland have announced another 46 deaths. I hope that trend does not follow through the country.
Our graph is not looking good already . Look at our angle compared to Italy.
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Re: Covid-19

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:30 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:38 am
It’s nothing like that and you probably know that.
Nobody is saying that building these hospitals are not an important or the right thing to do.
But it’s obvious that someone on this thread is trying to score points by making out that this is some kind of remarkable feat of engineering.
The building was already there - the rest is about logistics of getting beds and equipment there and partitioning to create rooms. All other utilities were already there.
Hospital bed manufacturers are not an issue in the UK - or any other country.

It’s great that everybody has pulled together to make this happen but it’s little more than an existing huge building with hospital beds in - and that is all that is needed at the moment so I am not saying it should be more.

To use this to say the government is doing a great job is kind of missing the point as to why we need them in the first place. It’s positive that they have recognised that we urgently need increased capacity for what is coming in future weeks - this is again a strategy that has been adopted by other countries where we have benefited from seeing how other counties have coped with the crisis.

Just announced another 2 “field hospitals” btw - one in Harrogate.
Hi TVC15, if I may respond - just to the parts I've underlined:

1) Yes, of course, I know what the Nightingale is. My response to Combat wouldn't have made any sense if I didn't understand what it was.
2) Yes, it's what we need and it's great that it's being delivered.
3) Nightingale hospitals, the London one and all the others. Yes, the gov't is doing a good job with provision of extra capacity for this pandemic.
Yes, we saw, and were all impressed by China building two 1,000 bed hospitals in Wuhan.

Don't you think it's a little early to say "we have benefited from seeing how other countries have coped with the crisis?"

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Re: Covid-19

Post by thatdberight » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:32 pm

You would wonder what sort of a graph would compare the raw numbers of deaths in Netherlands and the USA. A not very well thought through one, that's for sure.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by DavidEyresLeftFoot » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:36 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:06 pm
Just been watched the unveiling of the first Nightingale hospital, described as "largest critical care unit in the world."

Just shows, that for all the disagreements on here. Out there in the real world. A mammoth effort by the government, NHS staff, the army and countless others who have just quietly gone about their tasks has delivered what was previously unimaginable.

A fabulous achievement.

Fair play to ever man Jack and woman Jane of 'em
Agreed it’s a monumental logistical achievement which the army are well placed to organise. However we should be very careful in exaggerating the capabilities of this centre. It is certainly not a fully functioning hospital. There are several major concerns about how this will function.

1. Stripping of staff from existing NHS hospitals which are already stretched to the max

2. Major relaxation of appropriate staffing levels. 1 ICU nurse to 6 patients (with non-qualified staff as back up)
1 ICU consultant to 42 patients
When you add in the shift patterns that’s an unbelievable number of staff removed from their normal hospitals.

3. Utilisation of medical students and newly qualified nurses. Really? Hardly an appropriate environment to start learning intensive care medicine.

4. Strict criteria on admissions. The plan is to only take the youngest and fittest patients. Single organ failure only. Patients that deteriorate further will need transferring back to the NHS requiring huge resources to facilitate.

5. Transfer of patients from admitting NHS hospitals to Excel after initial stabilisation - again very resource heavy procedure.

6. What equipment are they using? One thing that has barely been mentioned is what types of ventilators will be used. This will make a massive difference both in terms of management and also staff familiarity.

While we need extra capacity and I applaud that initiative I remain to be convinced this is the answer.

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Re: Covid-19

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:44 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:30 pm
Hi TVC15, if I may respond - just to the parts I've underlined:

1) Yes, of course, I know what the Nightingale is. My response to Combat wouldn't have made any sense if I didn't understand what it was.
2) Yes, it's what we need and it's great that it's being delivered.
3) Nightingale hospitals, the London one and all the others. Yes, the gov't is doing a good job with provision of extra capacity for this pandemic.
Yes, we saw, and were all impressed by China building two 1,000 bed hospitals in Wuhan.

Don't you think it's a little early to say "we have benefited from seeing how other countries have coped with the crisis?"
I’m not disagreeing with you - I was saying i think you realise what the other poster was saying and being a bit harsh on them.

As for your last question not exactly sure what you are getting at - but I am simply saying that we have learned from other countries that have been through what we have already that you can take certain measures ahead of what is coming down the road. In the case of preparing for increased capacity / hospital beds then I am not sure why you would think that we have not benefited from seeing what other countries have done or how they have done this ?
Why would you think it’s too early to say we have benefited in this specific example ?

It’s not just China either is it ? Spain and Italy have done the same thing. There is very little positive or good that can come out of something like this but as has been proven in Italy and Spain it is even worse if you are one of the first countries hit with this and you are faced with trying to get information or help / advice out of a country like China.

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