Covid-19

[Grumps]

I doubt they would be compulsory and if they aren't I can't see I'd need to wear one.

I don't think the ones the public will get work that well

If it's the difference between being able to travel or not, I'll wear one

Ordered them earlier this week.

[taio]

I don't think the ones the public will get work that well

If it's the difference between being able to travel or not, I'll wear one

Ordered them earlier this week.

True - depends on nature of lockdown easements. Presume they will be minor and maintain 2m distancing.

[Zlatan]

I doubt they would be compulsory and if they aren't I can't see I'd need to wear one.

There’s the problem, it needs to be compulsory otherwise you won’t wear one and you’ll potentially continue spreading it unknowingly if you have it.

I’ve always maintained that wearing a mask is altruistic and not for your own benefit, but far too many people won’t care about that - they’re young, fit and healthy - why would they care if they’re a superspreader.

[taio]

There’s the problem, it needs to be compulsory otherwise you won’t wear one and you’ll potentially continue spreading it unknowingly if you have it.

I’ve always maintained that wearing a mask is altruistic and not for your own benefit, but far too many people won’t care about that - they’re young, fit and healthy - why would they care if they’re a superspreader.

I will be keeping 2m distance for the foreseeable future in line with Infection Prevention and Control guidance. There's stronger evidence at the moment that doing that is more effective than always wearing a mask in public. If it was made compulsory to relax social distancing much more significantly that might be a different story.

[CombatClaret]

Johnson & Raab have now both stated in Parliament and on TV we locked down earlier in the epidemic curve than France, Italy and Spain..?

Deaths at time of lockdown:
France - 91
Spain: - 289
UK - 336

He also says that it was "completely right to make our period of lockdown coincide with the peak". Cart very much before horse.

[Zlatan]

I will be keeping 2m distance for the foreseeable future in line with Infection Prevention and Control guidance. There's stronger evidence at the moment that doing that is more effective than always wearing a mask in public. If it was made compulsory to relax social distancing much more significantly that might be a different story.

Common sense dictates that a respiratory illness’ spread can be limited by using a face mask. I would hope in conjunction with the 2m rule. It’s been stated before by many on here that there are countries who have had compulsory wearing of masks and they have fared much better than the rest of us

[Grumps]

True - depends on nature of lockdown easements. Presume they will be minor and maintain 2m distancing.

One airline ( wizz Air) have already said you will have to wear a mask to fly, if others follow I would prefer to have some, however useless they are.....

[taio]

Common sense dictates that a respiratory illness’ spread can be limited by using a face mask. I would hope in conjunction with the 2m rule. It’s been stated before by many on here that there are countries who have had compulsory wearing of masks and they have fared much better than the rest of us

I see what you mean. But then the evidence would be overwhelming. I'll continue to keep at least 2m distance for now and be ready to wear a mask if made compulsory or it becomes clear it is necessary.

[Grumps]

Johnson & Raab have now both stated in Parliament and on TV we locked down earlier in the epidemic curve than France, Italy and Spain..?

Deaths at time of lockdown:
France - 91
Spain: - 289
UK - 336

He also says that it was "completely right to make our period of lockdown coincide with the peak". Cart very much before horse.

Did he mean time? We were less than a week after Spain, but I thought they were meant to be weeks in front of us regarding the curve.

[Paul Waine]

This is the study https://wellcomeopenresearch.org/articles/5-75

Methodology looks pretty sound from what I can see, although I'm obviously not an expert.

Hi aggi, thanks for that link. Very interesting to read. An encouragement for all us older ones to look forward to many more years.... keeping exercising and doing all the other good things we do to look after our health.

[Paul Waine]

I will be keeping 2m distance for the foreseeable future in line with Infection Prevention and Control guidance. There's stronger evidence at the moment that doing that is more effective than always wearing a mask in public. If it was made compulsory to relax social distancing much more significantly that might be a different story.

I tend to agree, we should all keep our 2m distances.

I'm thinking of wearing a t-shirt with a bright red cross and "covid-19" printed on the front and the back.

Though, I'm not sure even that would stop the joggers, who all seem to be chasing their pb, panting right by me...

Stay safe, everyone.

[boatshed bill]

I think 5 m would have been so much better.

[CombatClaret]

Did he mean time? We were less than a week after Spain, but I thought they were meant to be weeks in front of us regarding the curve.

He said 'it was earlier in the curve of our epidemic', so if that's for deaths or infections I don't think that's correct.

[Grumps]

He said 'it was earlier in the curve of our epidemic', so if that's for deaths or infections I don't think that's correct.

NHS have Covid deaths as 102 on 23rd March, not the 300odd you quoted. I make no comment as I don't know personally which is right.

[tiger76]

Londoners warned about 'Clap For Carers'

Police have issued a warning to Londoners ahead of the UK's weekly Clap For Carers event later.

Anyone gathering at the city's landmarks to join the applause for key workers at 20:00 BST (19:00 GMT) will be told to go home, the Metropolitan Police said.

"Members of the public who are not away from their homes for one of the reasons outlined in the government's emergency legislation should expect to be asked to return home," said Deputy Assistant Commissioner Matt Twist.

One particular site, Westminster Bridge - near the force's headquarters and St Thomas's hospital - has been a popular spot for police officers, NHS workers and members of the public during the clap.

Two weeks ago London's mayor expressed concern after videos appeared to show police failing to observe social distancing rules on the crossing.

Twist said officers had been reminded "they must maintain an appropriate social distance at all times where operationally possible".

Let's help the public heed this warning,though having read the next item i wouldn't be so sure.

Nearly 9,000 Britons fined over lockdown breaches

Nearly 9,000 people have received fines for flouting lockdown restrictions in England and Wales, new figures show.

Police have had powers to issue fixed penalty notices (rather than on-the-spot fines) for alleged breaches since 26 March.

Figures released by the National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC) show that in the month to 27 April, police issued 8,877 fixed-penalty notices in England, and a further 299 in Wales.

Nearly 400 were for repeat offenders - with one individual given six.

Police can issue an initial £60 fixed penalty, which is lowered to £30 if paid within two weeks, before issuing £120 fixed penalties for second-time offenders - a fee which is doubled on each further repeat offence.

Guidelines have been issued to police over imposing lockdown, including a list of 'reasonable excuses' for people to leave their homes.

[CombatClaret]

NHS have Covid deaths as 102 on 23rd March, not the 300odd you quoted. I make no comment as I don't know personally which is right.

March 23rd 335 deaths according to DHSC at the time.

https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/12 ... 5604032512

[Grumps]

This shows the 102, but perhaps its per day?

https://www.england.nhs.uk/2020/04/tota ... -of-death/

[CombatClaret]

The government is trying to pull same the trick from the election where they campaigned as if they were in opposition and promises to undo all the things they had done themselves.

we're "going to avoid the tragedy that has engulfed other countries"

Which other countries?! Look at the numbers, we're the tragedy.
Combined with this, 'we locked down earlier' stuff. Countries looking at our "Successes". It's gaslighting on a national level.

[Grumps]

This shows the 102, but perhaps its per day?

https://www.england.nhs.uk/2020/04/tota ... -of-death/

But that doesn't fit your figs either, it's more!

[CombatClaret]

This shows the 102, but perhaps its per day?

https://www.england.nhs.uk/2020/04/tota ... -of-death/

Yes your's looks it's deaths per day, the number falls on some days so cannot be total. It's also England only, not UK.

[dermotdermot]

I tend to agree, we should all keep our 2m distances.

I'm thinking of wearing a t-shirt with a bright red cross and "covid-19" printed on the front and the back.

Though, I'm not sure even that would stop the joggers, who all seem to be chasing their pb, panting right by me...

Stay safe, everyone.

Ah yes! The joggers. They still can’t quite grasp what a health risk they are to others.

[martin_p]

This shows the 102, but perhaps its per day?

https://www.england.nhs.uk/2020/04/tota ... -of-death/

Unless 8 people were resurrected on 21st March it certainly is by day!

[tiger76]

The government is trying to pull same the trick from the election where they campaigned as if they were in opposition and promises to undo all the things they had done themselves.

we're "going to avoid the tragedy that has engulfed other countries"

Which other countries?! Look at the numbers, we're the tragedy.
Combined with this, 'we locked down earlier' stuff. Countries looking at our "Successes". It's gaslighting on a national level.

Worrying figures for the government in today's Ipsos Mori poll.

This week’s Ipsos MORI Coronavirus trends find that the public are becoming less concerned about the risk posed by coronavirus to themselves personally over time. The percentage concerned is down 9 percentage points over the last month, from 78% at the end of March (when the lockdown began), to 69% now at the end of April.

The number of people who say they are ‘very concerned’ for both the country as a whole (49%, down from 63%) and on a personal level (28%, down from 36%) has also fallen since lockdown began. Those aged 18-24 are significantly less concerned than other cohorts – just 48% of 18-24 year olds are concerned about themselves personally, compared to 69% overall.

Meanwhile there has been a significant rise in the number of people that think the Government acted too late in taking stricter measures, up 9 percentage points, from 57% to 66% in the last two weeks.

Confidence in the NHS continues to grow and now stands at 82%, with just 16% of people not confident its ability to cope with Coronavirus. This compares favourably to mid-March where 62% were confident and 36% were not. The proportion of Britons that are ‘very confident’ in the ability of the NHS to deal with coronavirus has more than doubled in this time – from 15% to 32%.

Keiran Pedley, Research Director at Ipsos MORI, says:

Although the public are still showing high levels of concern about the virus, these trends suggest the Government faces two challenges. Firstly, how do you ensure people stay in lockdown as they becomes less concerned about the risk the virus poses to themselves personally. Secondly, if the public reaches a consensus that the Government acted too slowly in dealing with the virus in the first place, it may have difficult questions to answer on that in the future.

One of the cabinet ministers was on Peston last night,think it was Robert Jenrick,and he promised a Chilcot level inquiry,when the dust has settled,so we'll see if they're true to those words.

[Grumps]

I think we could have said all that from the reaction on here tbh.... At less cost

[Paul Waine]

Worrying figures for the government in today's Ipsos Mori poll.

This week’s Ipsos MORI Coronavirus trends find that the public are becoming less concerned about the risk posed by coronavirus to themselves personally over time. The percentage concerned is down 9 percentage points over the last month, from 78% at the end of March (when the lockdown began), to 69% now at the end of April.

The number of people who say they are ‘very concerned’ for both the country as a whole (49%, down from 63%) and on a personal level (28%, down from 36%) has also fallen since lockdown began. Those aged 18-24 are significantly less concerned than other cohorts – just 48% of 18-24 year olds are concerned about themselves personally, compared to 69% overall.

Meanwhile there has been a significant rise in the number of people that think the Government acted too late in taking stricter measures, up 9 percentage points, from 57% to 66% in the last two weeks.

Confidence in the NHS continues to grow and now stands at 82%, with just 16% of people not confident its ability to cope with Coronavirus. This compares favourably to mid-March where 62% were confident and 36% were not. The proportion of Britons that are ‘very confident’ in the ability of the NHS to deal with coronavirus has more than doubled in this time – from 15% to 32%.

Keiran Pedley, Research Director at Ipsos MORI, says:

Although the public are still showing high levels of concern about the virus, these trends suggest the Government faces two challenges. Firstly, how do you ensure people stay in lockdown as they becomes less concerned about the risk the virus poses to themselves personally. Secondly, if the public reaches a consensus that the Government acted too slowly in dealing with the virus in the first place, it may have difficult questions to answer on that in the future.

One of the cabinet ministers was on Peston last night,think it was Robert Jenrick,and he promised a Chilcot level inquiry,when the dust has settled,so we'll see if they're true to those words.

1) I see it as very logical to have more confidence/be less concerned about risk posed by coronavirus after more than a month of lockdown and social distancing: a) we've all now been doing it, more of less, for over a month - and we are beyond the 14 days after lockdown started; b) the curve has been flattened.... though might still need some more flattening, so NHS will not be swamped/overwhelmed by covid-19 needs; c) and we are starting to build confidence that "things will work out" even though we may be "in for the long haul."

2) We are some distance now from mid-March, we've more time to know what lockdown is and further away from our situations before the lockdown. This perfectly natural to think "we should have locked down sooner" rather than, as in mid-March, thinking "It can't be so bad, why do we need to lockdown and, well, maybe lockdown will be OK after I've been to Cheltenham..... or the Liverpool game...

3) The NHS is coping, the Nightingales are all open...and not many patients.... and testing is growing.... and, who remembers ventilators now it doesn't look like there is a shortage?

So, I'm not sure any of this should be worrying for Gov't. However, it will be a reminder that we need to be reminded lockdown is needed for a few more weeks...

[tiger76]

1) I see it as very logical to have more confidence/be less concerned about risk posed by coronavirus after more than a month of lockdown and social distancing: a) we've all now been doing it, more of less, for over a month - and we are beyond the 14 days after lockdown started; b) the curve has been flattened.... though might still need some more flattening, so NHS will not be swamped/overwhelmed by covid-19 needs; c) and we are starting to build confidence that "things will work out" even though we may be "in for the long haul."

2) We are some distance now from mid-March, we've more time to know what lockdown is and further away from our situations before the lockdown. This perfectly natural to think "we should have locked down sooner" rather than, as in mid-March, thinking "It can't be so bad, why do we need to lockdown and, well, maybe lockdown will be OK after I've been to Cheltenham..... or the Liverpool game...

3) The NHS is coping, the Nightingales are all open...and not many patients.... and testing is growing.... and, who remembers ventilators now it doesn't look like there is a shortage?

So, I'm not sure any of this should be worrying for Gov't. However, it will be a reminder that we need to be reminded lockdown is needed for a few more weeks...

TBF to the government they stated when this first started that it wouldn't be a quick fix,and the priority was to ensure the NHS wasn't overwhelmed,thankfully that challenge has been achieved,and capacity is still available in the system,the danger is the public becoming complacent and thinking because the worst is over they can relax,that's why i agree with you that lockdown has to continue,at least for a few more weeks,until the numbers are significantly reducing,to a manageable level,while the NHS also continue with regular procedures.

My concern isn't so much the hospitals,it's the care sector now,that's the next issue which needs resolving,hopefully with increased testing and isolating,this can be brought under control as well.

[dsr]

Worrying figures for the government in today's Ipsos Mori poll.

This week’s Ipsos MORI Coronavirus trends find that the public are becoming less concerned about the risk posed by coronavirus to themselves personally over time. The percentage concerned is down 9 percentage points over the last month, from 78% at the end of March (when the lockdown began), to 69% now at the end of April.

The number of people who say they are ‘very concerned’ for both the country as a whole (49%, down from 63%) and on a personal level (28%, down from 36%) has also fallen since lockdown began. Those aged 18-24 are significantly less concerned than other cohorts – just 48% of 18-24 year olds are concerned about themselves personally, compared to 69% overall.

18-24 year olds shouldn't be concerned about themselves personally. Under 25's with no health conditions are virtually safe. They're a lot more likely to be killed in a car accident, and I doubt that 48% are concerned about that.

Concern for other people, that's a different matter of course.

[jackmiggins]

Been avoiding this thread for a couple of days, due to 'infighting', but feel I must make the following observations (no doubt some will feel these are political - I can assure you that they are not).
For a mask to be effective, it must be airtight around its perimeter, such that air can only be inhaled via the infrastructure. Gaps around the side nullify this to an extent and the relatively small gaps around the edges will result in a significantly greater suctional 'pressure' to bring surrounding air in. Any virus contained within this air has double the surface area to adhere to (being the face beneath the mask and the inner surface of the mask. Added to this, people unused to wearing masks will tend to touch their masks frequently, for comfort and to adjust. Added to this, ordinary fabric masks shouldn't be worn more than once, due to moisture ingress & the above.
If we do have to wear masks, I will endeavour to purchase air tight masks - if male also ensure that you are clean shaven - for obvious reasons re; air tightness and reduction in surface area.
I'd also reiterate my earlier comments regarding air travel - still baffled that we have no restrictions on incoming passengers. Amazed that there are still 200,000 ex pats/holidaymakers desperate to fly in from Spain!!! Doesn't really sit well with me to inject an influx from a viral hotspot, never mind the other parts of the World, in which we have very little info regarding effects of the virus. As an aside, I know the cost for these is being mooted as a loan, but I naturally wonder how much of the cost will actually be repaid once they return to their tax avoiding idylls???

[Taffy on the wing]

This is for all you Boris and Co. apologists........you know who you are! .....https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-5 ... ampaign=64

The BBC fails to inform us in this article that a staggering total of 247 people have died of Coronavirus in S.Korea.......most were at the Epicenter of the outbreak...Daegu, Where a christian group meeting was held and it spread rapidly through the Devotees!.. Seoul with a population of nearly 10 Million & densely packed in high rises....2 Deaths!
How did they do it?..... Testing and Tracing & checking temperatures & wearing masks.....AND they did it without a lockdown.
I rest my case...Boris and the Tories made a complete ******** of it.....End of story!

[jackmiggins]

Ability has very little to do with political ambition or position. It's quite obvious that recent governments have had base appreciation of the civil and intelligence offices. Eyes off the ball in a big, big way.
S.E Asia has most obviously been ready and aware that this scenario was likely and have prepared for it. No doubt, the West will be fed the 'dumbed down' version of events to protect national integrities, but history will tell a very different story.

[MalaysiaMo]

Lot in the news at present re # of COVID-19 deaths in US exceeding number of US soldiers killed in Vietnam war.

What doesn't get so much cover is the number of COVID-19 deaths in Vietnam - zero, according to official figures. Despite sharing a border with China & having a population size 30% greater than that UK, the number of infections reported is also low (fewer than 300).

Even if we treat the official data from Vietnam with caution, there is no doubt that Vietnam has done exceptionally well, particularly given its "middle income" status.

Why? Vietnam responded quickly to the warnings ..... implementing a plan based on testing, contact tracing and isolation (i.e. containment) in late January. The Government there is now planning to gently re-open the country's economy. That's good news for the 90 million Vietnamese!

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/as ... s-12689970

Just goes to show that immense comparative wealth isn't everything when you have a bumbling idiot, hamstrung by vested interests, as a leader.

[Grumps]

Been avoiding this thread for a couple of days, due to 'infighting', but feel I must make the following observations (no doubt some will feel these are political - I can assure you that they are not).
For a mask to be effective, it must be airtight around its perimeter, such that air can only be inhaled via the infrastructure. Gaps around the side nullify this to an extent and the relatively small gaps around the edges will result in a significantly greater suctional 'pressure' to bring surrounding air in. Any virus contained within this air has double the surface area to adhere to (being the face beneath the mask and the inner surface of the mask. Added to this, people unused to wearing masks will tend to touch their masks frequently, for comfort and to adjust. Added to this, ordinary fabric masks shouldn't be worn more than once, due to moisture ingress & the above.
If we do have to wear masks, I will endeavour to purchase air tight masks - if male also ensure that you are clean shaven - for obvious reasons re; air tightness and reduction in surface area.
I'd also reiterate my earlier comments regarding air travel - still baffled that we have no restrictions on incoming passengers. Amazed that there are still 200,000 ex pats/holidaymakers desperate to fly in from Spain!!! Doesn't really sit well with me to inject an influx from a viral hotspot, never mind the other parts of the World, in which we have very little info regarding effects of the virus. As an aside, I know the cost for these is being mooted as a loan, but I naturally wonder how much of the cost will actually be repaid once they return to their tax avoiding idylls???

I think we all know the masks don't work well, the public are buying none medical grade ones for a reason

Where are the 200,000 waiting to come back from Spain?

[Zlatan]

Been avoiding this thread for a couple of days, due to 'infighting', but feel I must make the following observations (no doubt some will feel these are political - I can assure you that they are not).
For a mask to be effective, it must be airtight around its perimeter, such that air can only be inhaled via the infrastructure. Gaps around the side nullify this to an extent and the relatively small gaps around the edges will result in a significantly greater suctional 'pressure' to bring surrounding air in. Any virus contained within this air has double the surface area to adhere to (being the face beneath the mask and the inner surface of the mask. Added to this, people unused to wearing masks will tend to touch their masks frequently, for comfort and to adjust. Added to this, ordinary fabric masks shouldn't be worn more than once, due to moisture ingress & the above.
If we do have to wear masks, I will endeavour to purchase air tight masks - if male also ensure that you are clean shaven - for obvious reasons re; air tightness and reduction in surface area.
I'd also reiterate my earlier comments regarding air travel - still baffled that we have no restrictions on incoming passengers. Amazed that there are still 200,000 ex pats/holidaymakers desperate to fly in from Spain!!! Doesn't really sit well with me to inject an influx from a viral hotspot, never mind the other parts of the World, in which we have very little info regarding effects of the virus. As an aside, I know the cost for these is being mooted as a loan, but I naturally wonder how much of the cost will actually be repaid once they return to their tax avoiding idylls???

You’ve missed the point that compulsory masks are an altruistic measure. There are issues as you say about the air tightness for the wearer so droplets can penetrate the mask for the wearer. The thing is, and this is what most people overlook, is that there will be massively lower amounts of droplets in the air to penetrate your mask as long as everybody else is also wearing them.

If you take the selfless view of it, it does become clear why masks are a good idea

[Grumps]

Ok, we have conflicting science then as a report today says children are as infectious as adults. I’d want the science to be more consistent before letting children near the elderly. We need to make sure we’re not drawing conclusions based on the wrong things. It’s certainly likely that children have caused few infections as in most countries children are either banned from leaving the house (Spain until recently) or not encouraged to do so other than for exercise. Given that you’re supposed to go shopping by yourself most children stay well away from others, although I accept that’s not the case when there’s a single parent. Plus there’s this possibly Covid related new disease they’ve discovered in small numbers, that needs more investigation too.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... sf-twitter

[CombatClaret]

How did we reach 100k tests? By being disingenuous and including tests SENT as well as those actually conducted.

'The number of tests includes:

Tests processed through our labs.
Tests sent to individuals at home or to satellite testing locations'

From: https://t.co/hWM4mMUy4l

Only 54k people were tested yesterday.

[tim_noone]

I think we all know the masks don't work well, the public are buying none medical grade ones for a reason

Where are the 200,000 waiting to come back from Spain?

At a guess? I'd say Spain.

[Lowbankclaret]

There was a medical test performed, I cannot remember which channel I saw it on.

They tested a doubled up scarf.

They said that just doing that reduced droplets escaping from someone sneezing by over 90%.

That’s got to be a good think surely.

[Spijed]

There was a medical test performed, I cannot remember which channel I saw it on.

They tested a doubled up scarf.

They said that just doing that reduced droplets escaping from someone sneezing by over 90%.

That’s got to be a good think surely.

Even if a handkerchief reduced it by only 50% it's still better than not wearing one surely.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Even if a handkerchief reduced it by only 50% it's still better than not wearing one surely.

I will stick to the mask and snorkel option while out in public

[Zlatan]

There was a medical test performed, I cannot remember which channel I saw it on.

They tested a doubled up scarf.

They said that just doing that reduced droplets escaping from someone sneezing by over 90%.

That’s got to be a good think surely.

Even if a handkerchief reduced it by only 50% it's still better than not wearing one surely.

2 people who understand

[Lowbankclaret]

Now I don’t want to start a major fall out between people, but I would like to do a bit of poll of contributors.

What’s the number of deaths per day people would think was the trigger to relax lockdown.

My thoughts would be under 150 per day. Not that that’s an acceptable number, but a balance to try to get the economy back going at least a little.

Then using testing to watch for increasing infection rates. Not sure people will accept lockdown being tightened again but it might have to happen if R gets above one again.

Thoughts?

[Lowbankclaret]

Even if a handkerchief reduced it by only 50% it's still better than not wearing one surely.

Agreed, as Zlatan has said for ages, it needs everyone to be wearing them.

[FactualFrank]

Now I don’t want to start a major fall out between people, but I would like to do a bit of poll of contributors.

What’s the number of deaths per day people would think was the trigger to relax lockdown.
Thoughts?

I don't think it's just about the daily numbers, it's about consistency. It needs to have dropped every single day compared to the day before, over X days before it can be relaxed.

[Lowbankclaret]

And then I read this!
Gov talking about positive test being under 1000 per day.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dreds.html

[Lowbankclaret]

I don't think it's just about the daily numbers, it's about consistency. It needs to have dropped every single day compared to the day before, over X days before it can be relaxed.

Reading the article I just linked it’s looking like they want less than 1000 new cases a day, that could take months to achieve.

[Zlatan]

Reading the article I just linked it’s looking like they want less than 1000 new cases a day, that could take months to achieve.

...or a few weeks with compulsory masks. I just don’t understand why others won’t see it. The only trouble with compulsory masks is the supply of them - we don’t have enough, and it will become political, which is a shame.

[taio]

...or a few weeks with compulsory masks. I just don’t understand why others won’t see it. The only trouble with compulsory masks is the supply of them - we don’t have enough, and it will become political, which is a shame.

A brief BBC article which touches on some of the issues in a simple way:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... h-51205344

[tim_noone]

And then I read this!
Gov talking about positive test being under 1000 per day.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dreds.html

I'm sure your thinking would have envisaged the link comments? And the wearing of masks to quote stan t.? Surely a blind man on a galloping horse would see the benefits? Though some medical/scientific experts refute the Evidence. From Boris's first live broadcast he knew we were in the Sh!t. Its gonna be a rocky road.

[dsr]

Now I don’t want to start a major fall out between people, but I would like to do a bit of poll of contributors.

What’s the number of deaths per day people would think was the trigger to relax lockdown.

My thoughts would be under 150 per day. Not that that’s an acceptable number, but a balance to try to get the economy back going at least a little.

Then using testing to watch for increasing infection rates. Not sure people will accept lockdown being tightened again but it might have to happen if R gets above one again.

Thoughts?

I should be surprised if the number of extra deaths caused by lockdown isn't already over 150. That's 1,000 a week; and 2,000 a week has been mooted as the possible current figure, and that doesn't include future excess deaths caused by missed cancer diagnosis and treatment.

[Grumps]

At a guess? I'd say Spain.

But they don't exist, it's made up by Mr miggins

All Spanish holidaymakers were home weeks ago, all Spanish hotels are shut.

The only place where people are waiting to get back from is Bangladesh and a northern part of India which I forget the name of.