James Bulger - 27 years...

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Swizzlestick » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:26 pm

Sensational contributions from jakubclaret on this thread.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:18 am

How many children were murdered in the last 27 years? We shouldn’t obsess over one. And we definitely shouldn’t obsess over the murderers rather than the people left behind.

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Re: James Bulger - 24 years...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:21 am

Blackrod wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:25 am
Couldn’t agree more with the OP. The fact the offenders have been released and one has re offended repeatedly is a disgrace.Clearly wired up wrong and no amount of therapy will help. Hopefully will one day get what’s coming to them.
Take time to read the judge’s summary in this case before you go labelling children as being wired ‘wrong’.

Inexcusable crime, horrendous loss of life, but the children are only a small part of a wider problem.

Also: one took the chance to change his life and move past this, the other cracked under the mental torture.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:23 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:25 pm
It isn't acceptable & to be honest nothing has ever been acceptable about this case from the start, the public should have got a say about the appropriate course of punishment a 4 choice option, for really serious crimes such as murder I'd abolish & bypass all the courts & roll out a system where the public decide on a range of harsh options.
Thank god you’ll never be in a position to do that.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by evensteadiereddie » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:30 am

Jakub seems to be gtting worse. I hope he gets better soon.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:34 am

Imagine letting the public decide?

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by NewClaret » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:45 am

The most heinous crime. How it’s ever possible that a perpetrator of such an act, even a child, can walk free afterwards is beyond me.

We have gone very soft on crime in this country and sadly no sign of that changing (albeit this seems the right decision for a change - as his Dad says: the first one!).

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by evensteadiereddie » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:52 am

"The most heinous crime. How it’s ever possible that a perpetrator of such an act, even a child, can walk free afterwards is beyond me."

Fair play, at least you own up to your stupidity. Who "walked free" afterwards ?

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Woonderbah » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:01 am

Punishment is based on following precedent and I think this is where the system buckled. The system didn't know what to do with two offenders so young who had committed such a heinous crime.
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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:26 am

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:45 am
The most heinous crime. How it’s ever possible that a perpetrator of such an act, even a child, can walk free afterwards is beyond me.

We have gone very soft on crime in this country and sadly no sign of that changing (albeit this seems the right decision for a change - as his Dad says: the first one!).
They're on licence for the rest of their lives, they didn't 'walk free'

Note how one has lived a quiet unassuming life since he was released.
You never see his name in the paper for any misdemeanours.

The other one revels in the notoriety, has gone back to Merseyside a few times despite a lifetime ban from the area, has kiddie porn etc and keeps going in and out of prison and being given new identities each time.

One of them needs to stay in prison, he's never going to change.
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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Walkerpool » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:26 am

The death penalty should be an option for convicted terrorists, mass murderers, serial rapists, paedophiles and child killers.
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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:28 am

Walkerpool wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:26 am
The death penalty should be an option for convicted terrorists, mass murderers, serial rapists, paedophiles and child killers.
And what if we execute someone who has been wrongfully convicted?

And don't say it doesn't happen in recent times, people are wrongfully convicted all the time.
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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:29 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:28 am
And what if we execute someone who has been wrongfully convicted?

And don't say it doesn't happen in recent times, people are wrongfully convicted all the time.
We're gonna let Jakub decide, nothing could possibly go wrong with it...

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:30 am

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:45 am
The most heinous crime. How it’s ever possible that a perpetrator of such an act, even a child, can walk free afterwards is beyond me.

We have gone very soft on crime in this country and sadly no sign of that changing (albeit this seems the right decision for a change - as his Dad says: the first one!).
I do feel we should be much closer to America in terms of punishment.
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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by NewClaret » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:38 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:52 am
"The most heinous crime. How it’s ever possible that a perpetrator of such an act, even a child, can walk free afterwards is beyond me."

Fair play, at least you own up to your stupidity. Who "walked free" afterwards ?
Both Venables and Thompson have walked free. Venables has reportedly committed other acts of paedophilia and been returned to jail for those, otherwise he would be a walking free for his original crimes.
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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by NewClaret » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:45 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:26 am
They're on licence for the rest of their lives, they didn't 'walk free'

Note how one has lived a quiet unassuming life since he was released.
You never see his name in the paper for any misdemeanours.

The other one revels in the notoriety, has gone back to Merseyside a few times despite a lifetime ban from the area, has kiddie porn etc and keeps going in and out of prison and being given new identities each time.

One of them needs to stay in prison, he's never going to change.
If they’re walking the streets they are walking free in my book. If someone had led my child away, then brutally tortured and murdered them I wouldn’t care whether they were out “on licence” - just that they were walking free in society.

In my view, their right to lead an “unassuming life” was lost the day they took that poor boys.
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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:56 am

Everybody needed some sort of input some sort of say, if anything the divisive nature of the aftermath further reinforces the public's need to be involved, it takes away any injustices & resentment on possible inappropriate punishments.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:04 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:56 am
Everybody needed some sort of input some sort of say, if anything the divisive nature of the aftermath further reinforces the public's need to be involved, it takes away any injustices & resentment on possible inappropriate punishments.
And the people who don't get what they want out of this input will not be happy regardless.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:06 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:04 am
And the people who don't get what they want out of this input will not be happy regardless.
Not if it is settled with a wheel of fortune style punishment.

The whole nation could choose the punishment they prefer i.e life in jail - 10 years - 20 years - hanging - lethal injection etc

Then the defendant could spin the wheel live on tv
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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Boss Hogg » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:12 am

Steve1956 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:24 pm
One of life's complete no hopers,he was given another chance after what he did to James and abused that chance,pricks like him need their lives ending by lethal injection.
Correct.
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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Walkerpool » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:17 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:12 am
Correct.
100%

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:18 am

Costs more to execute someone that it does to keep them in jail for the rest of their lives.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Boss Hogg » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:19 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:28 am
And what if we execute someone who has been wrongfully convicted?

And don't say it doesn't happen in recent times, people are wrongfully convicted all the time.
Timothy Evans was wrongfully hanged ( and it is a tragic case) but wouldn’t have been if DNA testing and modern crime scene science had existed then. This case largely contributed towards the abolishment of Capital punishment. It needs bringing back along with Corporal punishment. At the very least life sentences must mean whole life terms with no parole.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Boss Hogg » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:19 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:18 am
Costs more to execute someone that it does to keep them in jail for the rest of their lives.
No it does not.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:24 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:19 am
No it does not.
Yes, it does.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Burnley1989 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:24 am

It wouldn't surprise me if that's true you know, special wing for about 20 years whilst they go over every detail time and time again to make sure there's not chance they have made a mistake etc

Its madness!

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:24 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:19 am
No it does not.
https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/which ... role-31614

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:25 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:19 am
No it does not.
https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/death ... alty-cost/

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:25 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:19 am
No it does not.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29552692/ns/u ... tion-cost/

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:25 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:12 am
Correct.
Or, keep them in a cell without ever seeing daylight again or being able to interact with people. Just sat there in an empty room. Wait until he's driven himself mad after a few years and then inject him.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:30 am

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:45 am
If they’re walking the streets they are walking free in my book. If someone had led my child away, then brutally tortured and murdered them I wouldn’t care whether they were out “on licence” - just that they were walking free in society.

In my view, their right to lead an “unassuming life” was lost the day they took that poor boys.
They served a jail term, as such.
They were kids themselves, the system didn't really know what to do with them.

They've got whole life tariffs so they can be recalled at any time.

The issue is one of them keeps reoffending and doesn't appear to give a toss or show any remorse.

Personally I don't think he's ever going to care and will keep reoffending so he's at the point where he needs to stay in prison.

The other lad has learnt his lesson and has stayed out of trouble.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Boss Hogg » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:31 am

America
Appeals systems

It doesn’t have to be. For example if I was given a licence by the government I would do it for petrol expenses. They pay the clean up costs, undertaker costs and associated paperwork. I would provide my own equipment to rid the nation of the evil sc*mbag.

If you read the book by Pierrepoint you will see how cost effective and straight forward this can be.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:32 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:19 am
Timothy Evans was wrongfully hanged ( and it is a tragic case) but wouldn’t have been if DNA testing and modern crime scene science had existed then. This case largely contributed towards the abolishment of Capital punishment. It needs bringing back along with Corporal punishment. At the very least life sentences must mean whole life terms with no parole.
We still wrongfully convict people today though...

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Walkerpool » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:32 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:28 am
And what if we execute someone who has been wrongfully convicted?

And don't say it doesn't happen in recent times, people are wrongfully convicted all the time.
For example Lee Rigby killer's received more than £200000 in legal
aid this is costing the taxpayer's millions each year defending terrorists.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:33 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:31 am
America
Appeals systems

It doesn’t have to be. For example if I was given a licence by the government I would do it for petrol expenses. They pay the clean up costs, undertaker costs and associated paperwork. I would provide my own equipment to rid the nation of the evil sc*mbag.

If you read the book by Pierrepoint you will see how cost effective and straight forward this can be.
Right, but it can't ever be that way. Not in the current way the law is at this time.

Also, there would be appeals here too, there'd never ever be an opportunity to go from guilty verdict to sentence carried out in as quick a fashion as you'd hope.

Thankfully.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:34 am

Walkerpool wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:32 am
For example Lee Rigby killer's received more than £200000 in legal
aid this is costing the taxpayer's millions each year defending terrorists.
But we have to do this, because one day we might need defending. It has to be fair to all, or not at all. That's how it works.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:36 am

FactualFrank wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:30 am
I do feel we should be much closer to America in terms of punishment.
Why? Is their crime rate lower?

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:37 am

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:36 am
Why? Is their crime rate lower?
I feel our punishment is too lenient.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:37 am

Walkerpool wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:32 am
For example Lee Rigby killer's received more than £200000 in legal
aid this is costing the taxpayer's millions each year defending terrorists.
Lee Rigby killers didn’t receive any money.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:45 am

FactualFrank wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:37 am
I feel our punishment is too lenient.
We have the 10th highest prison population in the world (2nd only to Poland in Europe) and the US has the highest recidivism rate in the world with 76.6% reoffending within 5 years of release. Norway is about 20%.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:45 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:31 am
America
Appeals systems

It doesn’t have to be. For example if I was given a licence by the government I would do it for petrol expenses. They pay the clean up costs, undertaker costs and associated paperwork. I would provide my own equipment to rid the nation of the evil sc*mbag.

If you read the book by Pierrepoint you will see how cost effective and straight forward this can be.
Wow, just when you thought you'd read it all.

There's nothing like a death penalty discussion to bring out the weirdos. In my opinion, anyone who is in favour of killing another person is evil.
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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Boss Hogg » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:52 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:45 am
Wow, just when you thought you'd read it all.

There's nothing like a death penalty discussion to bring out the weirdos. In my opinion, anyone who is in favour of killing another person is evil.
Very disrespectful to ex soldiers and police defending innocent civilians.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by conyoviejo » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:52 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:45 am
Wow, just when you thought you'd read it all.

There's nothing like a death penalty discussion to bring out the weirdos. In my opinion, anyone who is in favour of killing another person is evil.
There must be absolutely millions of Evil people around then. :o

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by gtclaret » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:56 am

We could solve all these problems by acting on crime early. So I propose public flogging of parking offenders, hit the little offenders hard. It all starts with small offences like illigal parking and who knows where it will end. Now with schoolchildren, if they were hanged for say not handing in their homework on time, I bet all sorts of misbehaving would cease

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:59 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:52 am
Very disrespectful to ex soldiers and police defending innocent civilians.
Even more disrespectful to presume that soldiers and police officers are in favour of killing people.
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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:00 am

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:45 am
The most heinous crime. How it’s ever possible that a perpetrator of such an act, even a child, can walk free afterwards is beyond me.

We have gone very soft on crime in this country and sadly no sign of that changing (albeit this seems the right decision for a change - as his Dad says: the first one!).
Have we gone soft on crime? If you look at children murdering children in Victorian times, the murderers were usually confined for less time than Bulger’s killers were. There was a case (I think in Staffordshire in the 1840s) very similar the the Bulger one in which the killers each served two or three years in a prison school.

I think what we could do here is look beyond the idea of justice as the crown versus culprit, and go down the route of restorative justice. Bringing victims and perpetrators together often gives victims a better sense of closure.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:01 am

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:45 am
We have the 10th highest prison population in the world (2nd only to Poland in Europe) and the US has the highest recidivism rate in the world with 76.6% reoffending within 5 years of release. Norway is about 20%.
Cool. Like I say, I feel we are too lenient.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:04 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:31 am
America
Appeals systems

It doesn’t have to be. For example if I was given a licence by the government I would do it for petrol expenses. They pay the clean up costs, undertaker costs and associated paperwork. I would provide my own equipment to rid the nation of the evil sc*mbag.

If you read the book by Pierrepoint you will see how cost effective and straight forward this can be.
Pierrepoint was an abolitionist at the end.

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:04 am

FactualFrank wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:01 am
Cool. Like I say, I feel we are too lenient.
Based on what? Obviously not evidence!

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Re: James Bulger - 27 years...

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:06 am

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:04 am
Based on what? Obviously not evidence!
Based on my thoughts. I see people get sentenced and IMO it doesn't suit the crime!!!

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