Gibson training at Middlesbrough

[boatshed bill]

Very much so due to his mum’s debilitating illness but even so he’s admitted to having been frustrated at not being in the team.

But he must have toed the line in training etc?

[claret wizard]

Have we ever had a player under contract train with another club like this? Presume this means that Long is next in line should Mee or Tarkowski be injured or suspended

Long has been the back up all season. Gibson has regularly not even been on the bench.

[BOYSIE31]

Thanks for that but I don’t think it is a ridiculous post at all. Opinions are one thing, what he posts is completely different.

No I dont i post my opinions but you and a few others do not like - why dont you reply and post when i applaud the team eh ????

[jrgbfc]

Being the good guy doesn't always work in your favour though. Gibson has pretty much guaranteed himself a move this summer, whereas if he'd kept his head down and been the model pro we may have decided to keep him as backup, and he'd have been stuck with another 2 years left on his deal.

[superdimitri]

Being left sided, it would be Ben Mee, so you think the club captain wouldn't mind standing down for a few games? Ben Mee will be working his socks off, doing his best ever single day in training to retain his place in the team. That's how it works at Burnley and how it should work.

Wood came in after we'd sold Gray. We needed a new striker. He started on the bench although admittedly only for a couple of games. Completely different situation though to Gibson.

I don't think Mee would go out of his way to suggest it, nor prefer it. But I think if Dyche said to him that Gibson had been waiting for a chance he wouldn't mind. Its legs, hearts and minds remember! A good captain would step down if asked.

Also, Mee has only been captain for half a season thereabouts.

Regarding Wood, yeah it's a different situation but we had Vokes and Barnes at the time, so if you applied the same logic to replacing Mee or Tarkowski then, it wouldn't be too different. Point is he shoehorned Wood unusually quick into the team for Dyche.

Obviously something wasn't right with Gibson's character, either that or he and Dyche just didn't get along. I don't think anyone can really say its because hes not good enough because he hasn't really had the chance, and if it wasn't for injuries Dyche would still be thinking McNeil isn't good enough...you can't judge players if they don't get the chance as some will raise their game for matches.

My personal opinion is something that lots probably will disagree with, and that's that every player deserves a good crack and part of having good characters is not making a fuss if dropped to give someone else a chance. Clearly it's been a bit of a problem for Dyche with Heaton too. There's been plenty of occasions this season when Mee hasn't been performing that Gibson could have been given a chance so it's no surprise he witnessed his poor performances and thought he's never gonna get in the team. With consistency comes success, but to build a stronger squad you have to keep everyone happy which is one of the challenges top managers have to make.

[ClaretTony]

Being the good guy doesn't always work in your favour though. Gibson has pretty much guaranteed himself a move this summer, whereas if he'd kept his head down and been the model pro we may have decided to keep him as backup, and he'd have been stuck with another 2 years left on his deal.

I don't think it's changed anything. If we get an acceptable offer then he'll go, just as he'd have gone a couple of weeks ago.

[Chester Perry]

It is strange how long it takes for players to get there chance though isn’t it? I mean I know we have two very good players already but if I were one of those two I wouldn’t mind giving him a few games instead of me.

This used to be the norm - players were signed and then not heard of for 12 or more months - Shankly and Paisley made an art of it at Liverpool - though the odd exceptional went straight into the team - Dalgleish for example when Keegan left, though Keegan himself was an example of the buy and hide approach

[ClaretTony]

Shankly and Paisley made an art of it at Liverpool

Didn't they?

[Sarum]

One of Sean Dyche's strengths as a manager is his ability to spot players with potential well in advance of us actually needing to play that individual. As others have pointed out Tarks and Charlie are good examples of this.

Sometimes, though, when we are going through a rough patch or a particular match isn't going well, it can seem as if Sean Dyche is unwilling to shuffle the pack and give someone else a really good go. A recent example of this could be Jay Rodriguez: for the early part of the season when Jay came on he didn't make much of an impact. And so I have wondered whether Jay would ever have been picked ahead of Ash or Chris whilst they remained fit enough to start.

Unluckily for Ashley (but fortunately for Jay) Sean has been forced into giving Jay an extended run. And Jay has seized the opportunity with both feet - he's been excellent and arguably it's added an extra dimension to our game.

By contrast that kind of extended opportunity just hasn't happened for Ben Gibson. An expensive signing by our standards, but he seemed to offer a suitable level of insurance for the eventuality of Ben Mee suffering a cruciate leg injury or similar. Fortunately for Burnley that insurance was not called upon: we have two (mostly) very reliable central defenders who would have been nigh on impossible for Gibson to displace. If I was in Ben Gibson's situation I'd probably have given up hope of ever becoming first choice by now.

[Dy1geo]

Unfortunately for Gibson the partnership of Mee and Tarks has been a major factor in our recent success.

I totally agree with not rotating Centre Backs, the loss in the cup to Norwich was in my opinion down to the lack of understanding between Tarks and Long.

This will be a learning curve for Dyche and how he handles player’s “ego’s” and if he moves to a so called bigger club he will come across it more and more, we are entering a new era where the player’s we have bought for big money are nearing the end of their contracts and nowadays the player’s call the shots especially if there agents know they are in demand by other clubs. Brady for example could walk for free this summer or we could exercise the extension but will he be happy being a bit part player. These contract extensions etc will prove pivotal for the club in the next couple of years.

As for Gibson, he could in theory do a “Winston Bogarde” on us so we need to get shut of him in the window

[rob63]

Very strange choice to let him go train with Boro unless a move is lined up. Dont want him poisoning our club too Dael Fry who we are supposedly been chasing for the last season or two.

Bit late for that I'd have thought, after his non-playing role I'd have thought he'd have been the 1st person Fry would have rung

[Woodleyclaret]

Ben Gibson had an opportunity v Sunderland and was poor.If he was going to feature the FA cup was a good point.He clearly wasn't good enough to feature

[Zlatan]

just scanned this thread there really are some weapons of mass debation on here

[Tricky Trevor]

This used to be the norm - players were signed and then not heard of for 12 or more months - Shankly and Paisley made an art of it at Liverpool - though the odd exceptional went straight into the team - Dalgleish for example when Keegan left, though Keegan himself was an example of the buy and hide approach

Agree with your point, Chester but you picked a poor example in Keegan. Signed from Scunny in 1971. Impressed Shankly so much in pre-season training went straight in to first team.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Keegan

[Jakubs Tash]

just scanned this thread there really are some weapons of mass debation on here

One in particular...

[Taffy on the wing]

Not a surprise you haven’t taken this news particularly well! What the maximum we should be spending on our third choice centre half for future reference?

Leave him alone.....he hasn't had a good moan for days!

[houseboy]

Basically he should be more professional.

We all go through rough times at work and he should man up and get training at Gawthorpe.

We were never going to loan him to watford until we are completely safe and not with us paying some of his wages.

This word 'professional' gets used a lot but where does personal ambition fall into place? Ambition is what got him to where he is and that is a powerful motivating factor. It is NOT unprofessional to want to play, far from it bud. No one with ambition wants to sit on their arse doing nothing, no matter what they are getting paid. Maybe he has 'manned up' for 18 months and got sick of the wait. No-one is to blame for all this (apart from Tarks and Mee for being so good). It's just bad luck.

[Grumps]

just scanned this thread there really are some weapons of mass debation on here

People are allowed opinions, just because they don't match up with yours doesn't mean they should be abused

[Chester Perry]

Agree with your point, Chester but you picked a poor example in Keegan. Signed from Scunny in 1971. Impressed Shankly so much in pre-season training went straight in to first team.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Keegan

please forgive my memory I was a toddler distracted by a baby brother at the time

But it is clear to see that two of the biggest football influences on Dyche are Liverpool in the 70's and Clough - his approach to management can be seen as modern day filtered copies though the money required now means he is not able to get near to matching their success

[jrgbfc]

This word 'professional' gets used a lot but where does personal ambition fall into place? Ambition is what got him to where he is and that is a powerful motivating factor. It is NOT unprofessional to want to play, far from it bud. No one with ambition wants to sit on their arse doing nothing, no matter what they are getting paid. Maybe he has 'manned up' for 18 months and got sick of the wait. No-one is to blame for all this (apart from Tarks and Mee for being so good). It's just bad luck.

Agree with this completely. The lad clearly wants to play and has sucked it up for 18 months. Maybe he should be more like Kevin Long, happy picking up a big wage with no interest in actually playing?

[Zlatan]

People are allowed opinions, just because they don't match up with yours doesn't mean they should be abused

there's a massive difference between holding a different viewpoint and blatantly being obnoxious to generate a response. I'll always respect another poster for an opinion, but I will always call out people who are clearly trolling

[ClaretTony]

please forgive my memory I was a toddler distracted by a baby brother at the time

But it is clear to see that two of the biggest football influences on Dyche are Liverpool in the 70's and Clough - his approach to management can be seen as modern day filtered copies though the money required now means he is not able to get near to matching their success

Clough was very much the major influence for Dyche and Alan Brown was very much the major influence for Clough. Brown was our manager when Gawthorpe was opened, it was his plan to bring in and develop young footballers at a training ground away from the ground.

[Grumps]

there's a massive difference between holding a different viewpoint and blatantly being obnoxious to generate a response. I'll always respect another poster for an opinion, but I will always call out people who are clearly trolling

Fine line between trolling and difference of opinion in relation to football message boards. Some people will actually believe there is a lot wrong with the club.

[rob63]

If a bust up yes play with the U23's but no way allow him to train with another professional club.

Its a joke

Sorry Boysie, I've never understood the logic of sending a disgruntled player to train with the U-23's. Surely you're punishing the kids as well as the player? He's not going to be a great example to the kids while he's stewing & seething.
It wouldn't happen in any other business...... higher earners go on gardening leave to stop further disruption during a personal dispute, which can also act as a further deterrent to others.
Steve Stone was sent on gardening leave while his case is being reviewed, they didn't send him to train the U-15's! So sending Gibson to train elsewhere could be seen as innovative. If he doesn't train properly & keep himself in good condition the likelihood of him passing a transfer medical is also reduced. The lack of match fitness isn't an issue if he's not likely to get a game here either.

[boatshed bill]

Clough was very much the major influence for Dyche and Alan Brown was very much the major influence for Clough. Brown was our manager when Gawthorpe was opened, it was his plan to bring in and develop young footballers at a training ground away from the ground.

Prior to Gawthorpe did the players train at Turf moor, CT?

[Tricky Trevor]

Clough was very much the major influence for Dyche and Alan Brown was very much the major influence for Clough. Brown was our manager when Gawthorpe was opened, it was his plan to bring in and develop young footballers at a training ground away from the ground.

63 goals in 74 games under his management. No wonder Clough was influenced by Alan Brown

[SkiptonClaret]

Agree with this completely. The lad clearly wants to play and has sucked it up for 18 months. Maybe he should be more like Kevin Long, happy picking up a big wage with no interest in actually playing?

Good point. I wonder if Long may end up regretting his career, yeah plenty of money in the bank (you’d assume) but you’d think most footballers would want to actually play football occasionally ?

[ClaretTony]

Prior to Gawthorpe did the players train at Turf moor, CT?

I think so yes. Training was pretty basic though.

[boatshed bill]

Unfortunately for Gibson the partnership of Mee and Tarks has been a major factor in our recent success.

I totally agree with not rotating Centre Backs, the loss in the cup to Norwich was in my opinion down to the lack of understanding between Tarks and Long.

Doesn't that depend in the first instance on how good each one is?
And, given that a club tries to get all players to their highest possible standard, the best way of achieving that is sensible use of the benched players.
The problem we have is that our bench-warmers (and that really is what they are) aren't sharp enough due to lack of game time.

[ClaretTony]

63 goals in 74 games under his management. No wonder Clough was influenced by Alan Brown

Don’t think it was anything to do with his record under Brown, just that he was influenced very much by his management and coaching style. Brown was very much a disciplinarian.

[boatshed bill]

I think so yes. Training was pretty basic though.

The pitch must have been a shocker!

[claretonthecoast1882]

No shock to see the resident clowns in overdrive

[Targetman]

No we have to keep repeating until one day your claret glasses may slip.

I will take that as a compliment!

[ClaretTony]

The pitch must have been a shocker!

The pitches were always poor but I think we went up Towneley occasionally. Some days they would use the pitch perimeter and the terracing or round the back of the Longside.

Hard to believe now that there were no training grounds around.

[Grumps]

The pitches were always poor but I think we went up Towneley occasionally. Some days they would use the pitch perimeter and the terracing or round the back of the Longside.

Hard to believe now that there were no training grounds around.

And on other days they would just run up and down the Longside terracing

[ClaretTony]

And on other days they would just run up and down the Longside terracing

I referenced the terracing - all hard to believe now.

Remember talking to Jimmy Robson a few years ago. Gawthorpe was open when he first came but the team he played for he said played their home games up Towneley.

[Hibsclaret]

Unfortunately this is the prefect piece of news to get the likes of Boycie away from selling his second hand cars...and on a tirade

I’m not sure how you can expect Dyche to get us comfortable in the premier league whilst making money on every transfer and playing everyone in the squad regularly. It is impossible and proven in pretty much every premier league squad. When you have 25 players a few will not play much. If they choose to spit the dummy out they need to be kept away as our squad morale is imperative at Burnley.

The idiots moaning as to why we signed him would be moaning if we hadn’t if Mee or Tarky had been injured at any point.,,,

[Jakubclaret]

The curious thing, assuming that this didn't all blow up in the past week or so, is why we didn't loan him to Boro and get some cash.

He looked like a good signing at the time. He was unlucky with injury that he was out whilst we were going through our worst run of form and then after the Everton match decided to persevere with Mee rather than bring Gibson in. After that he didn't really get too many chances.

I suspect he may turn out to be better than Mee, once his career moves on, but I don't think we'll be seeing it at Burnley.

Get some cash, his uncle didn’t get to where he is now with doling out bum advice, he’s rocked up at rockliffe & something will now be done for his nephew, he gets to keep fit & he’s back in teeside where he’s happy, this way it just moves things faster for him, the club wanted to keep him as he’s a good CH but not good enough on current form to displace JT/BM. Absolutely nothing’s curious, it was a low fee as mentioned by other posters that’s why the club didn’t entertain Watford.

[Royboyclaret]

The pitches were always poor but I think we went up Towneley occasionally. Some days they would use the pitch perimeter and the terracing or round the back of the Longside.

Hard to believe now that there were no training grounds around.

Prior to the summer of 1955 the bulk of training for the first team squad took place in the so-called "Gym" which was tucked away underneath the Brunshaw Road Stand. There were turnstiles on one side, a toilet on the other and also a sandpit and some tarmac. There were three iron pillars as well. Bobby Seith recalled "It was quite dangerous playing our 5-a-side games in there. Team mate Harold Mather once broke his nose when he crashed into the turnstile."

[Hibsclaret]

I suspect he may turn out to be better than Mee, once his career moves on, but I don't think we'll be seeing it at Burnley.

I suspect he is very unlikely to turn out to be better than Mee. He has had over 18 months to prove it and has been unable to get in the team. I reckon Dyche as a former centre half and fantastic manager knows who his best centre backs are...Also, looks like he has now shown he has a bad attitude.

[jrgbfc]

I suspect he is very unlikely to turn out to be better than Mee. He has had over 18 months to prove it and has been unable to get in the team. I reckon Dyche as a former centre half and fantastic manager knows who his best centre backs are...Also, looks like he has now shown he has a bad attitude.

Could you honestly ever see a situation where Dyche dropped Ben Mee? It was extremely unlikely before, now he's captain there's no chance.

[dougcollins]

I suspect he is very unlikely to turn out to be better than Mee. He has had over 18 months to prove it and has been unable to get in the team. I reckon Dyche as a former centre half and fantastic manager knows who his best centre backs are...Also, looks like he has now shown he has a bad attitude.

To be fair, Dyche was a certain type of centre half who definitely wouldn't survive in today's climate. And he was nowhere near playing at the top table.

[Jakubs Tash]

Could you honestly ever see a situation where Dyche dropped Ben Mee? It was extremely unlikely before, now he's captain there's no chance.

Can you let me know a run of games where Mee was poor and Gibson was fit and ready to step in?

Even when we were having our rough patch during the first half of last season (when Gibson was injured, incidentally) Mee was one of the better performers. It was Tarkowski who blew a bit more hot n cold.

Second half of last season Mee (and Tarkowski) were outstanding.

This season, in the main, Mee and Tarkowski have been excellent.

You could quite rightly say that Gibson has been unlucky but there's a reason he hasn't played in place of Mee - it's because Mee is a better centre half than Gibson.

[BOYSIE31]

Sorry Boysie, I've never understood the logic of sending a disgruntled player to train with the U-23's. Surely you're punishing the kids as well as the player? He's not going to be a great example to the kids while he's stewing & seething.
It wouldn't happen in any other business...... higher earners go on gardening leave to stop further disruption during a personal dispute, which can also act as a further deterrent to others.
Steve Stone was sent on gardening leave while his case is being reviewed, they didn't send him to train the U-15's! So sending Gibson to train elsewhere could be seen as innovative. If he doesn't train properly & keep himself in good condition the likelihood of him passing a transfer medical is also reduced. The lack of match fitness isn't an issue if he's not likely to get a game here either.

I take your point

[boatshed bill]

They've just discussed this on 5Live, Jon Walters is on there.
Needless to say Gibson is the victim.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Could you honestly ever see a situation where Dyche dropped Ben Mee? It was extremely unlikely before, now he's captain there's no chance.

Why do you want him to be dropped? You and Boysie have dedicated nearly your whole day posting about your unhappiness about Gibson not playing and how much we spent on him.
I’d hate to see how you handle personal problems life throws in your way!?

[ksrclaret]

They've just discussed this on 5Live, Jon Walters is on there.
Needless to say Gibson is the victim.

Sorry didn't listen to it - what did they say?

[jrgbfc]

Can you let me know a run of games where Mee was poor and Gibson was fit and ready to step in?

Even when we were having our rough patch during the first half of last season (when Gibson was injured, incidentally) Mee was one of the better performers. It was Tarkowski who blew a bit more hot n cold.

Second half of last season Mee (and Tarkowski) were outstanding.

This season, in the main, Mee and Tarkowski have been excellent.

You could quite rightly say that Gibson has been unlucky but there's a reason he hasn't played in place of Mee - it's because Mee is a better centre half than Gibson.

I'd disagree that Ben Mee was good the first half of last season, personally thought he was awful. He was very lucky not to get dropped along with Hart after the thrashing by Everton.
And I don't think it's that cut and dried that Ben Mee is better than Gibson tbh. Assuming he goes this summer will be interesting to see what happens to his career.

[BOYSIE31]

Good point. I wonder if Long may end up regretting his career, yeah plenty of money in the bank (you’d assume) but you’d think most footballers would want to actually play football occasionally ?

I have mentioned this loads of times but if course just get shouted down on here .

I would have moved lower and had a career

[boatshed bill]

Sorry didn't listen to it - what did they say?

I just happened on it.
Basically bulling up Gibson as a model professional, and BFC's failure.