This article perfectly encapsulates what i think has been taking the soul out of the game for years


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 30431.html

Well the more we watch and pay for it the more they keep it going. So either stop watching or stop complaining.

Goalposts wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:03 pm

This article perfectly encapsulates what i think has been taking the soul out of the game for years


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 30431.html

As I posted about this on another thread - just the broad brushstrokes - but Delaney has more of this to come starting tomorrow

well,,ive just cancelled sky...i feel better for doing it also. Truth is if its not Burnley I dont watch

I stopped enjoying league football 2-3 years ago, only watch Burnley now and England in tournaments.

If the words quoted were spoken by a senior person at one ofthe big six clubs at an event with senior media figures present, then why doesn't the article say who it was? Has the writer been bought off?

A good piece and completely correct.

Football will fracture sooner rather than later - we'll end up with a boxing type situation. And no country will have done more to create it than England.

That was a brilliantly well researched and composed article. I'm feeling the same as some others on here about waning interest in non-Burnley league football. Perhaps because we're drinking from this fountain - occasionally suffering the anxieties that come with being a smaller club in the premier league - its allure, its mystique, the illusion of it all is somewhat shattered and the inexcusable structural flaws that exist to the detriment of the game are laid bare to those no longer caught up in the chase. That is to say, "inexcusable structural flaws" insofar as football being viewed as anything more than a vehicle for commerce.

Without wanting to get philosophical, striving to 'survive' carries a different psychological burden than striving to 'succeed', and as fans that's a reality we're beholden to regardless of the pains one may go to characterise survival as a success - which it is in a sense, but not in any one that's truly enjoyable. "Yay, another season of this crap" loses its appeal when you realize you've truly peaked, something a fan doesn't experience sitting in the doldrums of the football league pyramid with the potential to win a league the following year. Perhaps the European non-event has a lot to answer for. Not that Dyche has anything to answer for. I won't fault him for that. Hope, perhaps, papered over a lot of cracks that I knew, and most others, too, knew were already there, and seeing Burnley confront that reality up close as a part of this league has thoroughly disabused me of the more sentimental ideals I might have had. I've barely even watched MOTD this season.

ClaretAndJew wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:05 pm

Well the more we watch and pay for it the more they keep it going. So either stop watching or stop complaining.

Like it or lump it, is your solution? Thank God there are plenty of people who don’t just think; that’s how things are so put up or shut up.

DCWat wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:35 pm

Like it or lump it, is your solution? Thank God there are plenty of people who don’t just think; that’s how things are so put up or shut up.

I know right? If there were only less people like me everyone could be happy.

Think it is symptomatic of the modern world, unfortunately. It will end up with marketing like the Harlem globtroppers which will do the job for the money men, who will walk away before the Big Bang eventually arrives and those giant stars implode. Those that pull through then find they destroyed the routes preening the petals.

The hack is right and it’s a compelling article... but it cannot be stopped, football is not run for or by fans.

ClaretAndJew wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:36 pm

I know right? If there were only less people like me everyone could be happy.

OK

Moderators, why was my request removed for someone to paste the article if possible?

The game in the 80s was utterly dead and dying just like us. The small town northern clubs had sunk into the lower divisions never to return, football violence was rife and public interest in the game dwindling rapidly. There seemed no way back for us once the big city clubs retained the whole of their gate receipts since on crowds alone we have always struggled to be in the top 30-40.
Thankfully for us the Sky behemoth appeared and we have managed to hitch a ride catapulting our resources far above many former big city giants. Club football for me is only about Burnley so why not glory in our position at the top table, chuckle at the failings of Leeds, Forest etc and look forward to more nights like Old Trafford? If we’d had the internet back in those dark days we’d have all been suicidal. We’ve just beaten Utd, given Arsenal a helluva game and people are worrying about the state of club football. I wager not one of these doom and gloom journalists cares two hoots about our amazing club or cares to point out how the tv money has made football below the top 6 a place of much more equal opportunities. There is a chance for the Burnleys of this world which was never the case from the mid 70s until the big tv deals of 10 years ago.

I think its because we were all kids once, we viewed this game as something special and magical. we probably played and dreamed too much, then got hooked on our clubs eventually. Great for a long while, then as you age, the cynicism creeps in, and the realisation hits home. Its a combination of sheer joy when our club succeeds, but gets diluted when we sense the debacle of finances, profiteering, and grubby business dealings that allow it to prosper. The corporate slop that non of us can stop, just continues to fester. Anything from colossally dreadful coverage from excremental talk sport, to vomit inducing sky sport network.
The traditions are killed off, and even the well intentioned BBC are left humiliated. Gambling, beer ads, and sponsorship deals are hideous. But... what do we do ?More than a few are deciding enough is enough.

claretbob wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:18 am

The game in the 80s was utterly dead and dying just like us. The small town northern clubs had sunk into the lower divisions never to return, football violence was rife and public interest in the game dwindling rapidly. There seemed no way back for us once the big city clubs retained the whole of their gate receipts since on crowds alone we have always struggled to be in the top 30-40.
Thankfully for us the Sky behemoth appeared and we have managed to hitch a ride catapulting our resources far above many former big city giants. Club football for me is only about Burnley so why not glory in our position at the top table, chuckle at the failings of Leeds, Forest etc and look forward to more nights like Old Trafford? If we’d had the internet back in those dark days we’d have all been suicidal. We’ve just beaten Utd, given Arsenal a helluva game and people are worrying about the state of club football. I wager not one of these doom and gloom journalists cares two hoots about our amazing club or cares to point out how the tv money has made football below the top 6 a place of much more equal opportunities. There is a chance for the Burnleys of this world which was never the case from the mid 70s until the big tv deals of 10 years ago.

Fully agree with you point, in its entirety. However I believe the boxing an allergy used by a previous post will be the ultimate destination of the game... I used Globetrotters, as the first example. It was American Wrestling... American sport in general. A show, a spectacle “Live from Old Trafford England...”.

For most of us that is not Burnley under the lights on Tuesday night type enjoyment.

claretbob wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:18 am

The game in the 80s was utterly dead and dying just like us. The small town northern clubs had sunk into the lower divisions never to return, football violence was rife and public interest in the game dwindling rapidly. There seemed no way back for us once the big city clubs retained the whole of their gate receipts since on crowds alone we have always struggled to be in the top 30-40.
Thankfully for us the Sky behemoth appeared and we have managed to hitch a ride catapulting our resources far above many former big city giants. Club football for me is only about Burnley so why not glory in our position at the top table, chuckle at the failings of Leeds, Forest etc and look forward to more nights like Old Trafford? If we’d had the internet back in those dark days we’d have all been suicidal. We’ve just beaten Utd, given Arsenal a helluva game and people are worrying about the state of club football. I wager not one of these doom and gloom journalists cares two hoots about our amazing club or cares to point out how the tv money has made football below the top 6 a place of much more equal opportunities. There is a chance for the Burnleys of this world which was never the case from the mid 70s until the big tv deals of 10 years ago.

Did you read the article? It presented a pretty solid case backed by verifiable information that the trend in Europe over the past decade+ has been for wealthy clubs to entrench their position by pulling up the ladder. It isn't unique to England. Without some decent governance the rate at which football becomes more of a commodity than a competitive sport will increase. Put aside the fact that a team can't dominate the championship every year due to promotion, take promotion/relegation from and to the championship as an artificial leveller (which it sort of is) and look purely at the volatility of the results in that league. Even if it's of a poorer playing standard, the competition in the championship is fiercer across more teams. The only thing stopping the PL from being as volatile is the top clubs capitalising on the lack of actual sports governance and structuring it commercially to be the way it is.

Football is so accessible these days, and the reach the Premier League teams have is changing the the outlook on what a supporter is.

For me, gone are the days of supporting your local team, the club nearest the town / city club you were born in or the club your dad supported.

Choosing a club to support has no bearing on where your from, your identity or heritage.

In the modern world of social media and living in Lancashire - Chelsea, Manchester City or even Barcelona are more accessible than Burnley Football Club. I can be an avid Arsenal fan - and it won’t be unusual.

Bigger clubs make money on fans who don’t attend, in fact, recently I watched a video about the growing behaviour of younger ‘die hard’ Premier League club fans who are not even interested in watching their team live in their own stadium. They much rather watch it on television.

claretbob wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:18 am

The game in the 80s was utterly dead and dying just like us. The small town northern clubs had sunk into the lower divisions never to return, football violence was rife and public interest in the game dwindling rapidly. There seemed no way back for us once the big city clubs retained the whole of their gate receipts since on crowds alone we have always struggled to be in the top 30-40.
Thankfully for us the Sky behemoth appeared and we have managed to hitch a ride catapulting our resources far above many former big city giants. Club football for me is only about Burnley so why not glory in our position at the top table, chuckle at the failings of Leeds, Forest etc and look forward to more nights like Old Trafford? If we’d had the internet back in those dark days we’d have all been suicidal. We’ve just beaten Utd, given Arsenal a helluva game and people are worrying about the state of club football. I wager not one of these doom and gloom journalists cares two hoots about our amazing club or cares to point out how the tv money has made football below the top 6 a place of much more equal opportunities. There is a chance for the Burnleys of this world which was never the case from the mid 70s until the big tv deals of 10 years ago.

We are now getting bigger gates than teams like Arsenal did in the 80's for some matches.

This idea that football back then had far more interest is a bit of a myth, especially when clubs like ours were getting less than 2000 for some matches.

Now, we get to see some of the best players in the world play on a weekly basis.

Who did Orient have in 1987 that would get you off your seats in appreciation?

Football has never been this free for all anyone can win affaire people believe it to once be.

Major nations have always won the world cup since football was actually proper structured of some sort. The same as club football has since that has. City teams have always dominated leagues and trophies.

You can have too much of anything. Blanket coverage doesn't add to the appeal, in my opinion.
Who enjoys all the pre and post match interviews, which when you think about it are paid for mainly by Sky's customers? Just too much.

Bob Lord was right !

The game has not recovered since Johnny Haynes got £100 per week.

The money is only going to go up when the Premier League get their act together and start streaming their own content.

Goalposts wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:22 pm

well,,ive just cancelled sky...i feel better for doing it also. Truth is if its not Burnley I dont watch

I cancelled my pay tv subscription (Virgin Media) about a year ago,after my mother passed away,she didn't go out much in her final months due to ill health,and the tv was her main source of entertainment,i was forking out about £150 a month and I barely watched most of the channels,even the sport so it made sense to get rid.

Sky has done a lot of good for sport,football in particular,however you have to wonder if we've reached a point of overkill,games kicking off at 8.15 on a week night is ridiculous,and shows contempt for the fans attending the games.

There is a surprising amount of available games on freeview if you search,ok it's not the PL,but believe it or not there is football outwith the top league.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:27 am

We are now getting bigger gates than teams like Arsenal did in the 80's for some matches.

This idea that football back then had far more interest is a bit of a myth, especially when clubs like ours were getting less than 2000 for some matches.

Now, we get to see some of the best players in the world play on a weekly basis.

Who did Orient have in 1987 that would get you off your seats in appreciation?

Fortunately, no one good enough to send the not so Mighty Clarets to oblivion!

However, the local team being on the edge of a precipice brought out those who did not want it to end.

They’d love ( the powers that be) turning football into a Disneyland style theme park year round attraction, where the likes of Barca ,Juve ,Man Utd, Real ,Bayern et al play each other all day every day , with grinning tourists mooching from game to game clad in replica kits and other overpriced tat .

Siddo wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:06 am

Moderators, why was my request removed for someone to paste the article if possible?

No posts removed from this thread so there was no request

Looking just at the Prem and assuming Liverpool win it this year that would be 5 different winners in 10 years which suggests it is still competitive at the top end. My point from the Burnley perspective was that probably once the max wage was lifted in 1961 we have had no real chance of winning the league so that whole discussion is irrelevant to us, but what the tv money has done is levelled the playing field below the top 6 so we can punch well above our weight. Teams like Millwall, PNE etc realise that Sky gives them the potential to leapfrog the former giants if they win promotion. It only works though If as much of the money as possible stays out of the hands of the players and is used sensibly to strengthen the club’s infrastructure particularly its academy. That’s why Mike Garlick is essential to our long term success because he is strong enough to face down Dyche’s requests for more and more money whilst ensuring we move to a first tier academy. It’s no surprise he was on the three person panel looking to appoint the new EPL chief executive. Looks like the other 19 chairman appreciate his nous even if quite a few claret’s fans don’t!

claretbob wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:48 am

Looking just at the Prem and assuming Liverpool win it this year that would be 5 different winners in 10 years which suggests it is still competitive at the top end. My point from the Burnley perspective was that probably once the max wage was lifted in 1961 we have had no real chance of winning the league so that whole discussion is irrelevant to us, but what the tv money has done is levelled the playing field below the top 6 so we can punch well above our weight. Teams like Millwall, PNE etc realise that Sky gives them the potential to leapfrog the former giants if they win promotion. It only works though If as much of the money as possible stays out of the hands of the players and is used sensibly to strengthen the club’s infrastructure particularly its academy. That’s why Mike Garlick is essential to our long term success because he is strong enough to face down Dyche’s requests for more and more money whilst ensuring we move to a first tier academy. It’s no surprise he was on the three person panel looking to appoint the new EPL chief executive. Looks like the other 19 chairman appreciate his nous even if quite a few claret’s fans don’t!

They never found a chief exec for the Premier League though, the two they got both then pulled out before they'd started. They gave up looking for one in the end.

actually Tony they appointed 3 and they all had to be approved by Man United and Liverpool - they blocked the last appointment, 1st appointment resigned after a private meeting with the big 6, 2nd appointment resigned after publication of his poor workplace behaviour.

all the latest revelations on page 60 of the Magic Money Tree thread - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20891&start=2950

Siddo wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:06 am

Moderators, why was my request removed for someone to paste the article if possible?

It's just taken me about 25 minutes to read it - that might be why. You really wouldn't want something that long on here - brilliant though it is.

Fabulous piece and well worth the read (I don't normally do 'links' but this was worth it). I don't think any more needs to be said, it simply confirms what most people already knew, that football is eating itself alive. Personally for me the Euro super league can't come too soon, then the big boys can f*ck off and leave real fans to their own teams and make the game fun again. I don't care if gates drop, I'm not bothered about watching 'the world's top players' diving and cheating their way to victory, I couldn't care less if I never saw United or Chelsea or Arsenal again, they are not my teams and their players aren't ours. As many have said on here I don't ever watch the PL unless Burnley are playing and if we ever get relegated it would disappear off my radar about 5 minutes after it happened.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:22 am

You can have too much of anything. Blanket coverage doesn't add to the appeal, in my opinion.
Who enjoys all the pre and post match interviews, which when you think about it are paid for mainly by Sky's customers? Just too much.

I understand where you're coming from re the pre & post-match interviews & "expert analysis", who wants to watch someone tell you what you've already seen? & at the expense of sounding like a miserable sod, I even record MOTD so I can skip the analysis......not surprised the analysis contains the word anal- with all the sh1t that comes out of it!

rob63 wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:35 pm

not surprised the analysis contains the word anal- with all the sh1t that comes out of it!

This gets better. The word analysis is derived from the Greek words ana, meaning 'up' and, and luein, meaning 'loosen'. Quite literally, loosen up.

Gary Neville's watery $hits doesn't have the same ring to it as Renault Super Sunday Post Match Programme, I suppose.

The article is a good read and by a very good writer in Miguel Delaney