Cabinet Carnage

[AndrewJB]

As usual with your assumptions you could not be further wrong than you are Spijed

I actually do a lot for the environment, as a family we are roughly carbon neutral and plant a lot of trees each year (we don’t literally do the planting but we do pay for them).

Since 1998 I was a shareholder in Wiggins, which was trying to make Marston International Airport in Kent the new Heathrow runway option. Far better for the environment than Thames Estuary, would have improved the health of hundreds of thousands of Londoners living near Heathrow, and it already had a runway nearly as long as Heathrows. Sadly, it went bust and I lost all my money. Hey, ho. If Boris had supported this it would have worked, unlike Boris Island. Hopefully like me he has learned since.

I get a lot of stick, which I enjoy, for supporting Boris, but I’m not a Tory by nature, and I don’t think he is either (too fiscally indisciplined and not a fan of a rule based system).

I do though think his fairly autocratic plans (I suspect he thinks he is a Roman Emperor) are the only chance for the north. Labour voters should get behind him, regardless of how many people he sacks, how many lies he tells, and how many children he has. As well as all that, he cares. Too much arguably.

He’ll crash and burn in the end, but for now things are looking very promising and he will hopefully have a big legacy when he has gone that cannot be taken from us.

A very big test will be how local government is funded by central government. If the Tories press ahead to take “deprivation” out of the formula, Northern towns will lose a lot of money, and wealthy southern areas will get it instead.

[IanMcL]

Fasten seats belts. Boris and Dennis are coming your way!

[Billy Balfour]

Javid was rubbish at magic and this was his downfall. Apparently, the new Chancellor is a bit of a magician. He's going to fund increases welfare expenditure, NHS investment, massive infrastructure projects and all funded out of tax cuts.

[aggi]

Well it sounds like they're all on board now:

Boris Johnson engaged in a call and response with Cabinet this morning:

PM: How many hospitals are we going to build?

Cabinet in unison: 40

PM: Well done. How many more police officers?

Cabinet: 20,000

PM: That's right. How many more nurses?

Cabinet: 50,000

PM: Exactly

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/sta ... 67072?s=20

[houseboy]

Hardly. Boris Johnson has appointed those who will never point out any mistakes, or disagree with him, even if it's clear there is a problem with any policies going forward.

A bit like most Prime Ministers from any party ever then?

[houseboy]

It does make you wonder where the cash is going to come from but he's at least making noises I've never heard a Tory PM make. I'm no Tory and have never voted for them and by nature I pretty much despise them, but I'm prepared to sit back and observe all this unfold (or not). Boris, for all his buffoonery, does seem to be a different kind of bloke from the norm as far as politcians go and if nothing else I find him 'interesting'. For once I'd love to be able to say 'yes, a Tory PM has got it just right', but only time will tell.

[Spijed]

A bit like most Prime Ministers from any party ever then?

Well no. It's well documented that Blair and Brown fell out because Gordon Brown wasn't a 'Yes' man.

[Spijed]

It does make you wonder where the cash is going to come from but he's at least making noises I've never heard a Tory PM make. I'm no Tory and have never voted for them and by nature I pretty much despise them, but I'm prepared to sit back and observe all this unfold (or not). Boris, for all his buffoonery, does seem to be a different kind of bloke from the norm as far as politcians go and if nothing else I find him 'interesting'. For once I'd love to be able to say 'yes, a Tory PM has got it just right', but only time will tell.

He had lots of new ideas and projects whilst London mayor.

Unfortunately, every one was a failure!

[houseboy]

Well no. It's well documented that Blair and Brown fell out because Gordon Brown wasn't a 'Yes' man.

Brown was a notoriously bad tempered git, I'll give you that, but I was talking about cabinet changes in general, they all do it occasionally. Sometimes it's forced on them because if there is anyone who disagrees on a point of principle they can't really stay because of the 'unwritten rule' of collective responsibility, cabinets are supposed to publicy agree on things (even if they don't really). Having said that these days they do seem to air their differences more readilly.

[Billy Balfour]

Well it sounds like they're all on board now:

Boris Johnson engaged in a call and response with Cabinet this morning:

PM: How many hospitals are we going to build?

Cabinet in unison: 40

PM: Well done. How many more police officers?

Cabinet: 20,000

PM: That's right. How many more nurses?

Cabinet: 50,000

PM: Exactly

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/sta ... 67072?s=20

I thought this was a joke, but no, it isn't.t I've just heard it on the radio news. Oh dear, they sound like a bunch of school kids attending their first day at junior school. Do they have any idea how infantile and subservient they look? I bet this was dreamt up by Cummings in order to humiliate them.

[houseboy]

He had lots of new ideas and projects whilst London mayor.

Unfortunately, every one was a failure!

Ha ha yeah. But I'm going to watch and wait before condemning him. I must admit to more than a little cynicism but I'd love nothing more than to be proved wrong, this country needs to have something to smile about, Brexit arguments and austerity have taken the smile off people's faces for long enough.

[Spijed]

Well it sounds like they're all on board now:

Boris Johnson engaged in a call and response with Cabinet this morning:

PM: How many hospitals are we going to build?

Cabinet in unison: 40

PM: Well done. How many more police officers?

Cabinet: 20,000

PM: That's right. How many more nurses?

Cabinet: 50,000

PM: Exactly

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/sta ... 67072?s=20

It's a well known lie about the forty hospitals. It's currently six. No wonder so many got brainwashed!

[aggi]

The Times were pretty cutting on the new cabinet
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/this ... -xxb9mwghg

[TheFamilyCat]

Well it sounds like they're all on board now:

Boris Johnson engaged in a call and response with Cabinet this morning:

PM: How many hospitals are we going to build?

Cabinet in unison: 40

PM: Well done. How many more police officers?

Cabinet: 20,000

PM: That's right. How many more nurses?

Cabinet: 50,000

PM: Exactly

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/sta ... 67072?s=20

BBC headline: PM tells cabinet to focus on delivering promises.

Screenshot_20200214-134603_Samsung Internet.jpg (408.47 KiB) Viewed 1875 times

"Home Secretary - magic me up 20,000 new police officers. Health Secretary, build me 40 hospitals. Transport Secretary, build me a bridge to Ireland.

Oh, and if any of you fail it'll be your fault."

[Corky]

What Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson the lying cheating racist **** told the CBI in November 2019

"I’m going to give you an absolutely categorical assurance that I will keep Sajid Javid as my chancellor... I think he's a great guy and I think he's doing a fantastic job and I'm proud to count him as a colleague.”

[Colburn_Claret]

What Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson the lying cheating racist **** told the CBI in November 2019

"I’m going to give you an absolutely categorical assurance that I will keep Sajid Javid as my chancellor... I think he's a great guy and I think he's doing a fantastic job and I'm proud to count him as a colleague.”

But he did try to keep Javid, if David decides to fall on his sword it's hardly at Boris's door.
The usual anti Boris posters on board today, having a go at him for having the nerve to tell his new cabinet to stick to the election promises. How dare he?

The same posters who would have had a fit if he had told his new cabinet, forget the election promises, we can't afford it.

The fact is they are going to criticise him no matter what he does, which just shows how petty and childish they are. Some of us are prepared to wait and see what he delivers, and then praise, or criticise, as warrants. But this childish negativity, so prevalent during the whole Brexit rigmarole, just refuses to go away.

[Corky]

But he did try to keep Javid, if David decides to fall on his sword it's hardly at Boris's door.
The usual anti Boris posters on board today, having a go at him for having the nerve to tell his new cabinet to stick to the election promises. How dare he?

The same posters who would have had a fit if he had told his new cabinet, forget the election promises, we can't afford it.

The fact is they are going to criticise him no matter what he does, which just shows how petty and childish they are. Some of us are prepared to wait and see what he delivers, and then praise, or criticise, as warrants. But this childish negativity, so prevalent during the whole Brexit rigmarole, just refuses to go away.

Really, I mean really.....You can keep your job but only if you agree to losing all your staff and in effect all your integrity and independence and have to funnel everything through No.10 or more accurately Dominic Cummings.

[Bordeauxclaret]

As well as all that, he cares. Too much arguably.

I always thought the true art of trolling was not making it too obvious.

Bit more practice needed methinks.

[Billy Balfour]

I love it how some on here have spent years telling everyone there is no alternative to absolute austerity, then all of a sudden it's a Damascene change when a Tory PM says he's going to splash the cash while throwing that so-called Tory mantra 'fiscal responsibility' out of the nearest window. It's hard to take such people seriously.

[KateR]

I love it how some on here have spent years telling everyone there is no alternative to absolute austerity, then all of a sudden it's a Damascene change when a Tory PM says he's going to splash the cash while throwing that so-called Tory mantra 'fiscal responsibility' out of the nearest window. It's hard to take such people seriously.

That's right, you tell them, fools all of them, exactly why they should have elected the Labour Party and gone with their manifesto, which clearly showed the fiscal prudence the population of the UK needs. I agree it is hard to take some people seriously on here.

[Colburn_Claret]

Really, I mean really.....You can keep your job but only if you agree to losing all your staff and in effect all your integrity and independence and have to funnel everything through No.10 or more accurately Dominic Cummings.

Yes really.
I don't know, but supposing Javids aides were old right wing Tories, who would rather have tax cuts than deliver on Boris's promise to the new blue north. There is lots of speculation, as usual, especially surrounding Cummings, but no one on this board knows the facts

[Billy Balfour]

That's right, you tell them, fools all of them, exactly why they should have elected the Labour Party and gone with their manifesto, which clearly showed the fiscal prudence the population of the UK needs. I agree it is hard to take some people seriously on here.

The truth hurting you, Katie?

I'm not banging a drum for Labour or any other political party here. I'm merely pointing out the sheer hypocrisy. HTH.

[Right_winger]

Fasten seats belts. Boris and Dennis are coming your way!

Says the man who’s dream team is Sturgeon and Corbyn

[KateR]

The truth hurting you, Katie?

I'm not banging a drum for Labour or any other political party here. I'm merely pointing out the sheer hypocrisy. HTH.

Billy, in fairness I do not remember anyone over the last several years saying Austerity was needed, in fact the Gov themselves during May's time and perhaps just before her stated that the country was exiting austerity and moving away from it. I think it's somewhat wrong for you to have a go at BJ and this Gov, plus the previous cabinet along with this unproven cabinet in terms of spending for the future when they had no control over when austerity started and ended, or was reduced.

There is certainly a lot of debate regarding how long austerity lasted and that it should have ended sooner or been relaxed sooner, unfortunately I believe austerity was needed due to the world crash but when it should have ended I have never defined that need as I am not qualified, and again I have not really seen or noticed any posters on here trying to justify austerity and its need to remain in place over the past couple of years.

Fiscal responsibility has definitely been discussed and in terms of just because we are coming out of the austerity period we should not be throwing money at everything, it needs a tight control and that is a fine balancing act.

what truth is supposed to be hurting me I have no idea, but perhaps you could shed more light on your statement?

[Billy Balfour]

what truth is supposed to be hurting me I have no idea, but perhaps you could shed more light on your statement?

Statement? It was a question. The question mark was supposed to be a clue...

[KateR]

Statement? It was a question. The question mark was supposed to be a clue...

Billy we both know it was a rhetorical question and therefore a statement, but it matters not, have a good weekend

[Billy Balfour]

but it matters not, have a good weekend

You too, Katie.

[IanMcL]

Says the man who’s dream team is Sturgeon and Corbyn

Not Corbyn

[Corky]

Yes really.
I don't know, but supposing Javids aides were old right wing Tories, who would rather have tax cuts than deliver on Boris's promise to the new blue north. There is lots of speculation, as usual, especially surrounding Cummings, but no one on this board knows the facts

For my sins I hold what people would perceive to be both left and right wing views. I don't see them as such it is just common sense to me. When I read something, certainly with regard to politics, I always seek out alternate opinions just for the sake of balance and accuracy. Sadly, it appears that this extreme autocratic approach by Alex Johnson (and Cummings) something that I don't think we have ever seen in British Politics before, removes all those checks and balances and effectively removes the actual need for a Chancellor.

You do not run a country based on blind ideology.

[Colburn_Claret]

For my sins I hold what people would perceive to be both left and right wing views. I don't see them as such it is just common sense to me. When I read something, certainly with regard to politics, I always seek out alternate opinions just for the sake of balance and accuracy. Sadly, it appears that this extreme autocratic approach by Alex Johnson (and Cummings) something that I don't think we have ever seen in British Politics before, removes all those checks and balances and effectively removes the actual need for a Chancellor.

You do not run a country based on blind ideology.

I don't disagree, but the acid test is what he delivers, and we don't know that yet. If Boris screws it up, we won't have to wait for an election to dump him, the Tories will do that for us. All I'm saying is instead of accusing Boris and Cummings of stitching up the country, wait until there is some evidence to justify it. Too many people on this board are so entrenched in their bias, that its impossible to have reasoned debate. Whatever Boris does gets criticised not because it's bad, but because it's Boris.

[Corky]

Can someone tell me why our PM is always referred to as Boris. His family and friends all call him Alex. If he made it know that he wants to be called Alex then people might stop referring to him as Boris the buffoon. It is almost as though he has a split personality.

Colburn I don't specifically disagree either but it is hard not to criticise a demonstrably lying, cheating, misogynist, racist etc...you get the message.

[Greenmile]

Billy, in fairness I do not remember anyone over the last several years saying Austerity was needed, in fact the Gov themselves during May's time and perhaps just before her stated that the country was exiting austerity and moving away from it. I think it's somewhat wrong for you to have a go at BJ and this Gov, plus the previous cabinet along with this unproven cabinet in terms of spending for the future when they had no control over when austerity started and ended, or was reduced.

There is certainly a lot of debate regarding how long austerity lasted and that it should have ended sooner or been relaxed sooner, unfortunately I believe austerity was needed due to the world crash but when it should have ended I have never defined that need as I am not qualified, and again I have not really seen or noticed any posters on here trying to justify austerity and its need to remain in place over the past couple of years.

Fiscal responsibility has definitely been discussed and in terms of just because we are coming out of the austerity period we should not be throwing money at everything, it needs a tight control and that is a fine balancing act.

what truth is supposed to be hurting me I have no idea, but perhaps you could shed more light on your statement?

[Right_winger]

Not Corbyn

Sturgeons just a **** Gerry Adams wannabe. Awful politician with no credibility whatsoever

[IanMcL]

Sturgeons just a **** Gerry Adams wannabe. Awful politician with no credibility whatsoever

Half term blues?

[CrosspoolClarets]

I don't disagree, but the acid test is what he delivers, and we don't know that yet. If Boris screws it up, we won't have to wait for an election to dump him, the Tories will do that for us. All I'm saying is instead of accusing Boris and Cummings of stitching up the country, wait until there is some evidence to justify it. Too many people on this board are so entrenched in their bias, that its impossible to have reasoned debate. Whatever Boris does gets criticised not because it's bad, but because it's Boris.

Spot on.

The editor Stephen Bush from the New Statesman I have seen on TV twice now. If anyone is used to criticising Tories it is that left leaning magazine.

The first time, pre election, he was cautiously praising of Boris, and the NS then published an editorial not endorsing anyone in the election (the first time ever not endorsing Labour).

The second time, yesterday, he was again cautiously suggesting that Boris and Cummings (who is no Tory) would be good for his readership due to their spending plans, and hence why it isn’t bad they are seizing control. He is watching carefully to ensure it is delivered.

Instead of automatically going into anti-Boris, anti-Cummings, anti-Tory rants, I would hope people on here would instead notice that the people who seem to be nervous about all this spending are other Tories. Let’s wait and see.

EDIT - I have just discovered that the head of the joint No 10 and No 11 policy unit will be Liam Booth-Smith, born in a Stoke council house who is an expert on left behind towns and has written articles on how towns “go to sleep for years” after industry leaves them.

[CrosspoolClarets]

For my sins I hold what people would perceive to be both left and right wing views. I don't see them as such it is just common sense to me. When I read something, certainly with regard to politics, I always seek out alternate opinions just for the sake of balance and accuracy. Sadly, it appears that this extreme autocratic approach by Alex Johnson (and Cummings) something that I don't think we have ever seen in British Politics before, removes all those checks and balances and effectively removes the actual need for a Chancellor.

You do not run a country based on blind ideology.

Me too.

It seems like a President / Emperor approach more suited to Xi then a UK PM.

It may prove to be a bad thing long term in terms of our established rules and democratic checks and balances. But in the short term it may be a good thing if it delivers something that can only be delivered by breaking those rules (the obvious one being the decades old Treasury value for money test that has preventing major infrastructure spending in the regions, but arguably helped create a downtrodden sense of low self esteem across large swathes of the country).

A bit like the EU vote, I had got so fed up and pessimistic of positive changes I was prepared to vote for breaking the system so it can be rebuilt in a better way. Risky, but bold.

[nil_desperandum]

Sturgeons just a **** Gerry Adams wannabe. Awful politician with no credibility whatsoever

Neither of which terms can reasonably be applied to Gerry Adams, no matter how much you may loathe or despise him.
He has enormous credibility both in his own country and abroad. (n.b. being successful and having credibility aren't necessarily the same as being widely respected).

[Spijed]

Spot on.

The editor Stephen Bush from the New Statesman I have seen on TV twice now. If anyone is used to criticising Tories it is that left leaning magazine.

The first time, pre election, he was cautiously praising of Boris, and the NS then published an editorial not endorsing anyone in the election (the first time ever not endorsing Labour).

The second time, yesterday, he was again cautiously suggesting that Boris and Cummings (who is no Tory) would be good for his readership due to their spending plans, and hence why it isn’t bad they are seizing control. He is watching carefully to ensure it is delivered.

Instead of automatically going into anti-Boris, anti-Cummings, anti-Tory rants, I would hope people on here would instead notice that the people who seem to be nervous about all this spending are other Tories. Let’s wait and see.

EDIT - I have just discovered that the head of the joint No 10 and No 11 policy unit will be Liam Booth-Smith, born in a Stoke council house who is an expert on left behind towns and has written articles on how towns “go to sleep for years” after industry leaves them.

What's the difference between what Boris wants to do and the accusation that Labour were boom and bust?

[aggi]

The thing is though that Johnson isn't a politician who is new to the game, he has a track record you can look at.

Whilst he was an MP he voted for things like austerity, was a barely competent foreign secretary and lied about things like his opposition to the third runway.

Whilst he was mayor of London he promised a lot of stuff that he didn't do. It's difficult to see why things are magically going to change.

[IanMcL]

Huge building programme, just when we have sent all the builders home....

[IanMcL]

By the time all the public enquiries have been sorted,c20 years of nothing will have passed.

[Cryssys]

Following the recent reshuffle we now have a cabinet in which 65% went to public school, 50% went to Oxbridge and the majority of cabinet ministers represent constituencies in the south of England.

How much empathy do you think these people will have with the realities of life? Whose interests do you think they will put first?

It's the elite working to protect and promote the interests of the elite.

And some people on here claimed that the Labour Party represented metropolitan bubble dwellers.

[Devils_Advocate]

To add some balance Johnson and Cummings have just brought in a special adviser alongside the reshuffle who has a lot of experience in tackling poverty.

Not convinced myself about that the idea of legally enforced universal contraception to stop poor people breeding is the answer but Im sure the 10 bob Tory's on here will be able to give it a bit of spin and turn it into a northern working class vote winner

[Vino blanco]

80 seat majority, DA, 80 seat majority. Just think what Corbyn could have done with that.

[Devils_Advocate]

Do you have an alert set for 10 bob Tory or is it just me you like to look out for? Whist you are here getting involved whats your thoughts on Eugenics, you a fan?

[Vino blanco]

Fantastic group, love Annie Lennox.

[Billy Balfour]

Sounds like Vino is a fan of the rhythm method. Mind you, this wouldn't be an issue if sisters really were doin' It for themselves.

[IanMcL]

Can someone tell me why our PM is always referred to as Boris. His family and friends all call him Alex. If he made it know that he wants to be called Alex then people might stop referring to him as Boris the buffoon.

Boris the Buffoon
Alex the Arsehole

Bit of a toss up!

[Vino blanco]

Is that really the best you can come up with, Ian? I expect more from you.

[Cryssys]

80 seat majority, DA, 80 seat majority. Just think what Corbyn could have done with that.

That's an irrelevance and a deflection. What matters is what BJ does with his majority. Based on his performance to date I'm not confident.