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Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:26 pm
by IanMcL
The laughing buffoon is showing his teeth in a different way.
Leadsom and McVey sacked
Javed told to sack all his advisers! "No guv". "You are out then".
Dictatorship steps nearer.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:28 pm
by Bosscat
They have just bought a cabinet on Bargain Hunt they are worth nowt these days
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:29 pm
by Vino blanco
Strong, decisive leadership: excellent news.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:32 pm
by Zlatan
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:36 pm
by Colburn_Claret
Shame about Javid, although he was yet to prove himself as a Chancellor he seemed a strong, capable character. On the other side of the coin Rishi Sunak is my MP. Seems popular locally, but no idea how he'll do in the Treasury top job.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:37 pm
by Bordeauxclaret
Cummings has allowed Johnson to keep his post it would seem.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:38 pm
by AlargeClaret
Not quite sure what the OP’s definition of “ carnage “ is? But a few bog standard changes on a first cabinet re-shuffle is not exactly the 1st day of the Somme is it ?
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:40 pm
by mkmel
Cummings in charge of the Goings
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:42 pm
by Spijed
Vino blanco wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:29 pm
Strong, decisive leadership: excellent news.
Hardly. Boris Johnson has appointed those who will never point out any mistakes, or disagree with him, even if it's clear there is a problem with any policies going forward.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:45 pm
by NewClaret
AlargeClaret wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:38 pm
Not quite sure what the OP’s definition of “ carnage “ is? But a few bog standard changes on a first cabinet re-shuffle is not exactly the 1st day of the Somme is it ?
Edit: quoted wrong post in error
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:45 pm
by Vino blanco
Supposition, Spijed, supposition.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:47 pm
by NewClaret
Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:37 pm
Cummings has allowed Johnson to keep his post it would seem.
Still time yet.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:49 pm
by NewClaret
To be fair, ballsy move by Javid to resign. Equally ballsy move by a Johnson/Cummings to put him in a position where he would have to.
Not messing around, this pair. Does make a nice change to have some decisive leadership.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:52 pm
by Vino blanco
In my opinion Javid is being replaced by a much more suitable and intelligent Chancellor, good move.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:31 pm
by evensteadiereddie
mkmel wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:40 pm
Cummings in charge of the Goings
And Carrie Symonds in charge of Johnson's "Comings" - in more ways than one....
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:42 pm
by Vino blanco
Full marks for your attempt at humour and innuendo, Eddie: you should be on the stage.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:58 pm
by Dougall
NewClaret wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:49 pm
To be fair, ballsy move by Javid to resign. Equally ballsy move by a Johnson/Cummings to put him in a position where he would have to.
Not messing around, this pair. Does make a nice change to have some decisive leadership.
I suspect that what is described here as decisive leadership might be viewed by many experienced leaders as impetuous leadership.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:17 pm
by Billy Balfour
Javid is son of a bus driver and Cummings has thrown him under one.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:28 pm
by martin_p
Vino blanco wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:52 pm
In my opinion Javid is being replaced by a much more suitable and intelligent Chancellor, good move.
What are you basing that opinion on?
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:32 pm
by FactualFrank
Who called it a ‘Cabinet Reshuffle’ instead of ‘Cummings and goings’?
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:36 pm
by Tricky Trevor
I honestly didn’t know if Rishi Sunak was male or female. Never heard of him.
I very much doubt BoJo will be leader come the next election, unless Labour come through with somebody to challenge them.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:37 pm
by aggi
Vino blanco wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:52 pm
In my opinion Javid is being replaced by a much more suitable and intelligent Chancellor, good move.
From what I've seen of him he's happy to toe the party line and doesn't have a huge issue with integrity. He's been one of the main ones talking about an Australia-style deal with the EU for instance.
By all accounts the chancellor won't have their own advisers anymore which makes me think he's coming in as a puppet which Javid refused.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:27 pm
by IanMcL
AlargeClaret wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:38 pm
Not quite sure what the OP’s definition of “ carnage “ is? But a few bog standard changes on a first cabinet re-shuffle is not exactly the 1st day of the Somme is it ?
To 'sack by default' one's Chancellor of the Exchequer is hardly small stuff. It is full on carnage.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:29 pm
by IanMcL
Javed has been Trumpton!
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:29 pm
by Colburn_Claret
aggi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:37 pm
From what I've seen of him he's happy to toe the party line and doesn't have a huge issue with integrity. He's been one of the main ones talking about an Australia-style deal with the EU for instance.
By all accounts the chancellor won't have their own advisers anymore which makes me think he's coming in as a puppet which Javid refused.
He's certainly been consistent on the Brexit question, and has always said that WTO is better than a bad deal, from Theresa Mays leadership.
On the question of a puppet.....It's hard to imagine the Chancellor running the country. He's there to balance the books, or justify the imbalance. I can only imagine that Boris's idea on spending differs from Javid, or sections of his aides. If that is the case then there can only be one winner.
Time will tell if it's the right decision.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:17 pm
by AlargeClaret
IanMcL wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:27 pm
To 'sack by default' one's Chancellor of the Exchequer is hardly small stuff. It is full on carnage.
Get a grip ffs , nobody really cares who does what in a cabinet tbh. Javid has always been a bit of a goofball and felt very lightweight .I’m sure his staff were leaking stuff ages back ,perhaps his trip to “ north England “ was just too much? . Pity he can’t make up with Hammond then the position can be totally forgotten about again
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:13 pm
by CrosspoolClarets
I am starting to swoon at how much all of this is going to plan.
Javid was known as CHINO (Chancellor in Name Only) and I saw a media wag today has said Sunak will now be BABYCHINO which was funny but a bit unfair. The guy is quiet but apparently a big hitter. He has come from a mix of privilege and achievement - he is married into one of India's richest families, went to a Hampshire boarding school followed by Oxford and Stamford. He has worked in all kinds of investment banking circles I think and is a bit of an economic nerd. He voted Leave only after carefully studying both sides of the economic argument (probably the only thing I have in common with him).
So I think while Boris is clearly the boss, the way Boris works is to ensure he makes the decisions but he surrounds himself with clever people (like Cummings and Sunak) and likes to get their opinion. I don't think thats a bad thing. It makes it a bit more like a one man government but that was always the case when Boris got in.
The issue is whether we trust or believe Boris will deliver. He failed on numerous infrastructure projects in London but now has almost limitless power. The Treasury have been trying to reign back spending in the north for decades, claiming it fails their "value for money test". Now it's fairly obvious the flood gates are going to open (hopefully not an unfortunate metaphor with Storm Dennis on its way).
As the American guy said on Politics Live at lunch, we have rock bottom interest rates at a level lower than growth, we should be piling investment into infrastructure, austerity was a mistake because it wasn't necessary, and Johnson may be proving to be the leader Trump pretends to be but isn't delivering on (in terms of big infrastructure boosts). So it all comes down to whether we want hawks or prudence at the top, and whether the Treasury should be allowed to block it.
Great stuff.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:26 pm
by aggi
Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:29 pm
He's certainly been consistent on the Brexit question, and has always said that WTO is better than a bad deal, from Theresa Mays leadership.
On the question of a puppet.....It's hard to imagine the Chancellor running the country. He's there to balance the books, or justify the imbalance. I can only imagine that Boris's idea on spending differs from Javid, or sections of his aides. If that is the case then there can only be one winner.
Time will tell if it's the right decision.
WTO, what's that? It's the Australia deal now.
Personally I'd say that the chancellor should have a degree of independence from the PM, with the current erosion of the position I'm not sure that's the case.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:33 pm
by Colburn_Claret
aggi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:26 pm
WTO, what's that? It's the Australia deal now.
Personally I'd say that the chancellor should have a degree of independence from the PM, with the current erosion of the position I'm not sure that's the case.
It'll be WTO, I'm no clairvoyant but it looks inevitable.
I'd agree about the Chancellor having a degree of independence, Brown certainly did under Blair and it worked quite well until the banks screwed it up. But if the roads are too far apart!!!!, nobody elected the Chancellor to run the country.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:35 pm
by Stayingup
IanMcL wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:26 pm
The laughing buffoon is showing his teeth in a different way.
Leadsom and McVey sacked
Javed told to sack all his advisers! "No guv". "You are out then".
Dictatorship steps nearer.
Whose the laughing buffon? You sound like one. Actually one of the biggest buffoons sits right opposite him.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:37 pm
by aggi
From the BBC:
The PM's spokesman also confirmed reports that the two separate teams of special advisers at No 10 and the Treasury will merge into one to jointly advise the new chancellor and the prime minister.
The new unit will ultimately be accountable to the PM.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:45 pm
by aggi
I reckon we'll also start to see some attacks on the judiciary which isn't surprising. These could have some very wide-ranging impacts although I suspect a number will be happy about it. I just hope we try and avoid the ludicrous position in the US where the supposedly independent judiciary is appointed by the party that's in power.
https://www.conservativehome.com/platfo ... udges.html
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:52 pm
by KateR
He obviously looked at what he had and the challenges ahead and decided to make a shuffle, typical business tactic of new leaders as they try to make there mark plus show the "company" read Troy party who is boss and that the new ideas being brought will be implemented by a team that is on board regarding the future business and making things generally better. He previously selected his cabinet with one aim, winning the election, that seemed to go quite well so now it is the next big challenge, 2020 leaving the EU and full independence, seems he has merely selected a team, which would be more suitably effective to manage/drive that activity, yet as others said we will have to wait and see how well this year turns out.
I would anticipate another reshuffle once we have finally cut the strings whether Jan 1st 2021 or beyond.
Javid certainly a surprise to me and I can only guess at what is happening in the background to lead to this but doesn't seem to be that he was let go as several other were, I like Javid's principals though and we do need more of them, but BJ is certainly not being the buffoon many predicted in my opinion, decisive and taking tough decisions when it is often easier to just change nothing.
Of course Labour jumping all over it plus many remainers and sore losers
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:40 pm
by IanMcL
Stayingup wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:35 pm
Whose the laughing buffon? You sound like one. Actually one of the biggest buffoons sits right opposite him.
Who's
Buffon
Buffoon
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:58 pm
by Spijed
CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:13 pm
I am starting to swoon at how much all of this is going to plan.
Javid was known as CHINO (Chancellor in Name Only) and I saw a media wag today has said Sunak will now be BABYCHINO which was funny but a bit unfair. The guy is quiet but apparently a big hitter. He has come from a mix of privilege and achievement - he is married into one of India's richest families, went to a Hampshire boarding school followed by Oxford and Stamford. He has worked in all kinds of investment banking circles I think and is a bit of an economic nerd. He voted Leave only after carefully studying both sides of the economic argument (probably the only thing I have in common with him).
So I think while Boris is clearly the boss, the way Boris works is to ensure he makes the decisions but he surrounds himself with clever people (like Cummings and Sunak) and likes to get their opinion. I don't think thats a bad thing. It makes it a bit more like a one man government but that was always the case when Boris got in.
The issue is whether we trust or believe Boris will deliver. He failed on numerous infrastructure projects in London but now has almost limitless power. The Treasury have been trying to reign back spending in the north for decades, claiming it fails their "value for money test". Now it's fairly obvious the flood gates are going to open (hopefully not an unfortunate metaphor with Storm Dennis on its way).
As the American guy said on Politics Live at lunch, we have rock bottom interest rates at a level lower than growth, we should be piling investment into infrastructure, austerity was a mistake because it wasn't necessary, and Johnson may be proving to be the leader Trump pretends to be but isn't delivering on (in terms of big infrastructure boosts). So it all comes down to whether we want hawks or prudence at the top, and whether the Treasury should be allowed to block it.
Great stuff.
I guess with all these infrastructure projects you are not a big fan of protecting the environment.
For example, building an airport in the Thames Estuary wasn't a bright idea for a Prime Minister who professes to care about those sort of things.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:07 pm
by Devils_Advocate
Good to see this thread has brought out a few of the 10 bob Tory's to entertain us.
The current govt cabinet is so bad you could take your pick but standout choice for me is the unapologetic anti-Semitic member who likes to vote against gay rights, same sex marriage and laws that promote equality. Yaba-daba-doo
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:11 pm
by Vino blanco
Don't worry DA, you will have the chance to vote them out in five years.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:16 pm
by ksrclaret
Has someone really used the swoon to describe their feeling towards what Johnson and co are doing. F3ck me. This country really have got the government it deserves.
The worst bit is they bang on about democracy... if only they could remove their heads from Tory rectums and allow themselves to see what that grotesque minger Cummings is doing.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:19 pm
by Devils_Advocate
Im not worried thanks, but you keep on fighting the good fight 10 bob
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:22 pm
by nil_desperandum
Vino blanco wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:11 pm
Don't worry DA, you will have the chance to vote them out in five years.
The real issue is that no one actually voted Cummings into office in the first place. And to think that the whole premise of Brexit was to restore democracy and sovereignty. Who's going to be running the show for the next 5 years, and will the judiciary retain its independence?
Worrying times (IMO) irrespective of where you are on the political spectrum. I don't think we've been here before.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:24 pm
by ksrclaret
nil_desperandum wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:22 pm
The real issue is that no one actually voted Cummings into office in the first place. And to think that the whole premise of Brexit was to restore democracy and sovereignty. Who's going to be running the show for the next 5 years, and will the judiciary retain its independence?
Worrying times (IMO) irrespective of where you are on the political spectrum. I don't think we've been here before.
Thank god we took back control from those unelected officials.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:25 pm
by Vino blanco
I don't remember anyone voting for Alistair Campbell either.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:27 pm
by Vino blanco
DA, I don't have to fight the good fight, my team won, happy days.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:35 pm
by ksrclaret
Vino blanco wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:27 pm
DA, I don't have to fight the good fight, my team won, happy days.
Hi Boris, I'm over here Boris, yoo hoo, Boris!! It's me! Vino blanco. Don't you remember me? I voted for you! Hello?
Hello?
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:41 pm
by Vino blanco
Quite amusing ksr, but I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I didn't vote for Boris. Living in Spain ( yes, in the EU using the Euro), I decided quite a while ago to stop voting in the UK elections, since I didn't think it would be fair.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:47 pm
by ksrclaret
Vino blanco wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:41 pm
Quite amusing ksr, but I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I didn't vote for Boris. Living in Spain ( yes, in the EU using the Euro), I decided quite a while ago to stop voting in the UK elections, since I didn't think it would be fair.
Thanks. And I'm sorry you didn't get the chance to vote for him. It's hard when you move away and you can no longer support your team as well as you have done in the past. I'm sure there is a bar in sunny Spain somewhere where you could gather with fellow fans to watch PMQs on the telly.
I hope one day you will be enticed to return when, finally, Britain is made great again. But until then, I guess it's Viva Espana.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:21 pm
by nil_desperandum
Vino blanco wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:25 pm
I don't remember anyone voting for Alistair Campbell either.
Very little similarity, and in this case none at all.
One of the key features of Blair's time in office was the total independence of Brown and his staff at No. 11. This "power struggle" between No. 10 and No.11 throughout this period is extremely well documented.
Brown successfully winning the "battle" against adopting the Euro being an obvious example.
Campbell was Director of Communications, and (irrespective of your politics and your personal view of him) very good at his job, as was fellow Burnley supporter Bernard Ingham before him. (1979 - 90)
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:26 pm
by Vino blanco
You could be right about 'very little similarity', I would be surprised if Cummings came up with a dodgy dossier to take us to war in Iraq or elsewhere. I could be proved wrong though.
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:48 pm
by IanMcL
Came up with a dodgy dossier to get us out of Europe!
Re: Cabinet Carnage
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:55 pm
by CrosspoolClarets
Spijed wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:58 pm
I guess with all these infrastructure projects you are not a big fan of protecting the environment.
For example, building an airport in the Thames Estuary wasn't a bright idea for a Prime Minister who professes to care about those sort of things.
As usual with your assumptions you could not be further wrong than you are Spijed
I actually do a lot for the environment, as a family we are roughly carbon neutral and plant a lot of trees each year (we don’t literally do the planting but we do pay for them).
Since 1998 I was a shareholder in Wiggins, which was trying to make Marston International Airport in Kent the new Heathrow runway option. Far better for the environment than Thames Estuary, would have improved the health of hundreds of thousands of Londoners living near Heathrow, and it already had a runway nearly as long as Heathrows. Sadly, it went bust and I lost all my money. Hey, ho. If Boris had supported this it would have worked, unlike Boris Island. Hopefully like me he has learned since.
I get a lot of stick, which I enjoy, for supporting Boris, but I’m not a Tory by nature, and I don’t think he is either (too fiscally indisciplined and not a fan of a rule based system).
I do though think his fairly autocratic plans (I suspect he thinks he is a Roman Emperor) are the only chance for the north. Labour voters should get behind him, regardless of how many people he sacks, how many lies he tells, and how many children he has. As well as all that, he cares. Too much arguably.
He’ll crash and burn in the end, but for now things are looking very promising and he will hopefully have a big legacy when he has gone that cannot be taken from us.