Man City banned from Europe

[Dark Cloud]

I hear what you are saying but if that was really the case then UEFA would simply tell MC, knock yourself out guys, you're banned and that's the end of it, but they're not for a reason. Again I hope I'm wrong, time will tell.

I am not 100% sure about FFP but I thought some teams in the past had been given penalties but had them reduced on appeal, I have no facts to support this just something niggling the back of my brain, therefore if so there would be a precedence for reducing a ruling.

Two things: 1. I assume most private "institutions" who have members, would (out of being seen to be fair and equitable) have some kind of appeals procedure to allow for any member who feels they have been unfairly treated to have their case looked at again, BUT the people looking at that case would be the same institution and therefore basically the same people who made the initial findings and judgement.
2. I suspect that just like in a law court the "judge" sets the sentence to a certain level knowing full well that it will almost certainly be reduced by an appeal and sadly this will be no different. The test will be by how much it gets reduced or if indeed it will "all just blow away" (as they say in Monsters Inc.)

[Funkydrummer]

Think they were and no issues

Clearly an amply sized brown envelope submitted as evidence.

I'm a cynical old git !!!!

[KateR]

Two things: 1. I assume most private "institutions" who have members, would (out of being seen to be fair and equitable) have some kind of appeals procedure to allow for any member who feels they have been unfairly treated to have their case looked at again, BUT the people looking at that case would be the same institution and therefore basically the same people who made the initial findings and judgement.
2. I suspect that just like in a law court the "judge" sets the sentence to a certain level knowing full well that it will almost certainly be reduced by an appeal and sadly this will be no different. The test will be by how much it gets reduced or if indeed it will "all just blow away" (as they say in Monsters Inc.)

we are of an accord I believe

[FCBurnley]

No sympathy from me to any club that breaks the rules. Financial or otherwise

[KellyClaret]

Surely this would also put them in breach of Premier League FFP rules too?

I wonder what action the Premier league will take

[ClaretTony]

Surely this would also put them in breach of Premier League FFP rules too?

I wonder what action the Premier league will take

It doesn't as far as I can see

[Jakubclaret]

Clearly an amply sized brown envelope submitted as evidence.

I'm a cynical old git !!!!

Not cynical, realistic, as someone once said money doesn't talk it screams.

[Royboyclaret]

It doesn't as far as I can see

On the contrary, a potential PL charge with accompanying points deduction is more than possible.

The fact is they have also flouted PL rules by overstating sponsorship income and therefore total revenue in their financial accounts.

[Chester Perry]

You go out with the family for a few hours and find the thing you have been tracking for years explodes with a judgement that is hugely surprising - not only for being twice the recommendation of the Investigators but that is a combination of both a large fine and an extended ban

I expect that City will file an appeal with CAS next week, based on the most recent judgement reported this week (and posted in the Magic Money Tree thread) I expect CAS to quash the ban and reduce the fine

There is so much else going on here - as Roy says all on the Magic Money Tree Thread - but the cultural nature of the middle east will (like the previous judgement) see CFG look to save face and work out a compromise deal - without it they will go to war on UEFA with Lawyers until UEFA is broken

I would also add that there seems to be a fair bit of libel on this thread

[Jakubclaret]

Surely this would also put them in breach of Premier League FFP rules too?

I wonder what action the Premier league will take

Possibly so, but the wise course of action would be to reserve judgement for now & wait until the outcome of the appeal, at this early stage to automatically consider any punitive measures would be far too premature, other posters are also knowledgeable about this subject & equally qualified in understanding the system.

[Royboyclaret]

You go out with the family for a few hours and find the thing you have been tracking for years explodes with a judgement that is hugely surprising - not only for being twice the recommendation of the Investigators but that is a combination of both a large fine and an extended ban

I expect that City will file an appeal with CAS next week, based on the most recent judgement reported this week (and posted in the Magic Money Tree thread) I expect CAS to quash the ban and reduce the fine

There is so much else going on here - as Roy says all on the Magic Money Tree Thread - but the cultural nature of the middle east will (like the previous judgement) see CFG look to save face and work out a compromise deal - without it they will go to war on UEFA with Lawyers until UEFA is broken

I would also add that there seems to be a fair bit of libel on this thread

Don't see the judgement being surprising at all. Perhaps the severity of it but not the actual judgement itself.

They have broken the rules, of that there is little doubt.

[Chester Perry]

Don't see the judgement being surprising at all. Perhaps the severity of it but not the actual judgement itself.

They have broken the rules, of that there is little doubt.

It was the severity that was most surprising, but this seems reactionary to the very aggressive approach City have taken (though at no time denying the offence) made explicit in the court notes released by CAS this week - all the way through City have just attacked the process not the charge, and that same CAS judgement made explicit that CAS believed their is merit to that argument - this is why I expect the ban to be overturned.

As I posted earlier in the week on the Magic Money Tree thread, there is also the precedent of the PSG case when their old, thought to be settled charges, were revisited - https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1 ... 5856656385 PSG just argued that the new investigation was out of time.

I also posted on the MMT thread at the time PSG won that case that City would get off eventually on a process technicality - Though the PSG Chair does represent the ECA on the UEFA Executive Council

[Zlatan]

We’re potentially just 8 points off champions league qualification...

[CrosspoolClarets]

They’ll win the appeal.

Sorry to be a bore.

But wouldn't it be justice if the Blades got Champions League for 5th after the Tevez affair and their (lengthy) relegation? That was so bent I half hope they manage it.

[RalphCoatesComb]

I didn't laugh - honest

[ClaretTony]

On the contrary, a potential PL charge with accompanying points deduction is more than possible.

The fact is they have also flouted PL rules by overstating sponsorship income and therefore total revenue in their financial accounts.

Very good

[Chester Perry]

Very good

As I have posted on the Magic Money Tree thread

Following UEFA's Adjudicatory Chambers ruling on Man City it looks like the fact it was based on City's income will force the Premier League to bring Charges that will in all probability lead to Points deduction - in the worse case scenario a points deduction that led to relegation - would see them pushed down to League 2 under new rules put in place last year

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 36946.html

that would see a few cheers across the land I imagine

[tim_noone]

As I have posted on the Magic Money Tree thread

Following UEFA's Adjudicatory Chambers ruling on Man City it looks like the fact it was based on City's income will force the Premier League to bring Charges that will in all probability lead to Points deduction - in the worse case scenario a points deduction that led to relegation - would see them pushed down to League 2 under new rules put in place last year

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 36946.html

that would see a few cheers across the land I imagine

About time..anything on Liverpool

[ecc]

The relationship between Mendes and Wolves is...interesting nonetheless.

[Chester Perry]

The relationship between Mendes and Wolves is...interesting nonetheless.

It most certainly is, and while UEFA, The Premier League and the EFL have cleared the relationship there are several, excellent journalists continually digging around Mendes's activities - there are pieces posted on the Magic Money Tree thread posted around it from time to time - usually around transfer windows and carrying the insinuation of money laundering amongst other things

[Chester Perry]

About time..anything on Liverpool

In relation to?

[Stayingup]

As I have posted on the Magic Money Tree thread

Following UEFA's Adjudicatory Chambers ruling on Man City it looks like the fact it was based on City's income will force the Premier League to bring Charges that will in all probability lead to Points deduction - in the worse case scenario a points deduction that led to relegation - would see them pushed down to League 2 under new rules put in place last year

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 36946.html

that would see a few cheers across the land I imagine

Goodness it certainly would bring a few cheers across the land.
Well goodnight and cheers to 3 points tomorrow in our quest for a top half finish

[tim_noone]

In relation to?

Cant we make something up?

[tiger76]

There are people far more qualified on this subject than me,but there does appear to be similarities between the City case and the Saracens case,both were essentially overspending,and distorting the competition in which they were competing in,and gaining an unfair advantage.

It'll be interesting whether either of the punishments handed out to both clubs is implemented in full,i suspect it's more likely that Saracens will bare the consequences of their actions,and City will undoubtedly appeal and likely have their sanctions downgraded somewhat.

It's to be hoped this firm action by UEFA will serve as a warning to other clubs who are pushing the boundaries of FFP.

[Chester Perry]

Cant we make something up?

They got off with the spygate re scouting of players when the FA used the PSG Defence (too much time elapsed) on their behalf, More interesting is how they (and United) will be treated at Premier League meetings after it emerged last week that those two clubs had blocked the appointment of a third candidate for the top job at the Premier League - they had been given the right of veto that most other clubs were unaware of

Again both these stories have been posted on the Magic Money Tree thread as they came out

[Chester Perry]

There are people far more qualified on this subject than me,but there does appear to be similarities between the City case and the Saracens case,both were essentially overspending,and distorting the competition in which they were competing in,and gaining an unfair advantage.

It'll be interesting whether either of the punishments handed out to both clubs is implemented in full,i suspect it's more likely that Saracens will bare the consequences of their actions,and City will undoubtedly appeal and likely have their sanctions downgraded somewhat.

It's to be hoped this firm action by UEFA will serve as a warning to other clubs who are pushing the boundaries of FFP.

The Saracens case has had a much greater impact on the general media/public who see what the RFU have done and challenging all other sports administrations to match that level of authority/decisiveness - The money involved on all sides (especially media in the content) is very substantially less though and perhaps more significantly, the acceptance of such rulings is an ingrained part of western culture - not so in the middle east

Again that cultural understanding and differences has been the subject of numerous posts on the Magic Money Tree thread (sorry to keep pointing that out - but there is a vast amount of stuff on there that I have collected over the past 30 months or so)

[jrgbfc]

Does this mean the team that finishes 8th could potentially qualify for the Europa?

[Chester Perry]

Does this mean the team that finishes 8th could potentially qualify for the Europa?

Theoretically yes - but an awful lot of water to go under the bridge before then

[jrgbfc]

Haven't got any sympathy for City. They clearly thought they were being clever and could get round the rules by having Etihad as their shirt sponsor and giving them naming rights on the stadium.

[Burnleyareback2]

Time to get Barnes fit and go 3 upfront for 5th place.

[Spijed]

Haven't got any sympathy for City. They clearly thought they were being clever and could get round the rules by having Etihad as their shirt sponsor and giving them naming rights on the stadium.

Didn't Leicester do something similar?

[Quickenthetempo]

Most of the case is based on hacked emails according to Journos on Twiiter
How does that count for evidence?

[KellyClaret]

Didn't Leicester do something similar?

There's nothing wrong with the owners companies sponsoring or having name rights to the stadium. The reason City have been punished is because the amount that they have been sponsored is deemed to far exceed market value.

[KellyClaret]

Most of the case is based on hacked emails according to Journos on Twiiter
How does that count for evidence?

Why wouldn't it they are genuine and pointed towards wrongdoing?

Anyway I don't think the hacked emails are to be used as evidence, they alrerted UEFA to start an inquiry and any evidence gained would have been requested directly from Mnachester City, who have not denied any of the claims made against them.

[bfcjg]

Don't City sing a song "we're not really here" they've nothing to moan about then.

[IanMcL]

Theoretically yes - but an awful lot of water to go under the bridge before then

Hebden?

[IanMcL]

PSG must be in line for the same treatment surely?

[Chester Perry]

Most of the case is based on hacked emails according to Journos on Twiiter
How does that count for evidence?

Part of the basis of Man City's appeal - various Police forces in Europe (especially France) are seeking to get Rui Pinto (source of Football Leaks) and sis thousands of Gig's of data a deal where he can turn states evidence with immunity on Football Leaks - the Portuguese are having none of it though and are about to put him on trail for fraud

Again that is all on the Magic Money Tree thread

[Chester Perry]

PSG must be in line for the same treatment surely?

I refer you to my posts further up the page

[IanMcL]

So PSG got off, owing to a Chairman being key in the organisations which make judgements!

[Chester Perry]

So PSG got off, owing to a Chairman being key in the organisations which make judgements!

add to that - they dealt with the charge in a much more diplomatic (behind closed doors) and friendly way and Qatari interests became major UEFA rights holders - the same individual is chair of BeinMedia that own BeinSport all on the MMT thread

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Absolutely wonderful news. Rumour is a PL points deduction too. It couldn't have happened to a nicer club

Pep is nothing more than a Harry Redknapp on roids

[Chester Perry]

add to that - they dealt with the charge in a much more diplomatic (behind closed doors) and friendly way and Qatari interests became major UEFA rights holders - the same individual is chair of BeinMedia that own BeinSport all on the MMT thread

It is a cozy world in football - remember that the President of UEFA is a close friend and Godfather to the daughter of Juventus Chairman, ECA President and architect of the much larger Champions League proposals Andrea Agnelli - again in the MMT thread

[ClaretTony]

I've just read a comment from that they will win the appeal and the reason given is that they are richer than UEFA.

[Chester Perry]

I've just read a comment from that they will win the appeal and the reason given is that they are richer than UEFA.

the first time around - before they got £29m of the £50m fine suspended - they told UEFA that they would rather spend the £50m on lawyers to destroy them - they got the suspension and allowed to not say they were guilty of wrong-doing, which would have been a big public loss of face in the middle east - again in the MMT thread

they are quite a ruthless bunch and that includes the Catalan cohort too

[SGr]

One hell of a battle looming. Financial power meets real power.

We are living through an amazing (but not necessarily good) time for the game.

[Chester Perry]

One hell of a battle looming. Financial power meets real power.

We are living through an amazing (but not necessarily good) time for the game.

and who are you suggesting has the real power

[tim_noone]

and who are you suggesting has the real power

The Club Owners?

[SGr]

and who are you suggesting has the real power

When all's said and done, it is still an investment company from the UAE vs the European football establishment. It's not just UEFA the entity we're talking about, it's the European elite protecting their standing in the game.

Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Barcelona...it's in all their interests to prevent the "new money" of City and PSG from gaining a serious foothold.

[Chester Perry]

The Club Owners?

It certainly helps if your club owner has his own Army, Navy and Air Force which is the case of Man City (don't let yourself think the stated owner is the real owner - it's his brother - again MMT thread) and PSG (and possibly Southampton who many believe are owned indirectly by the Chinese government so they would also have Nuclear Missiles and a population of over 1billion to call on - MMT thread again)