View from our Head of European & International recruitment

[Spijed]

Our recruitment has been laughing stock of other clubs.

What utter rubbish.

We are looked on with envy by the majority of clubs up and down the country with what we've spent and our achievements to date.

You simply can't have poor recruitment and get into Europe, for example.

[Giftonsnoidea]

Very worrying that he’s watching Stoke matches again, what is this obsession with Stoke, we really need to think out of the box moving forward

[superdimitri]

Evans and Soyuncu are no better than what we already have, but probably demand higher wages.
Please, when referring to Leicester City as a model for success don't forget that they cheated creditors out of millions before becoming a model PL club.

I used them as an example for good recruitment. They may spend more money and may be responsible for cheating but they still rely on the scouts to find them targets that improve the team which they have done and we haven't. It's all relative to what you can afford of course, but I feel we would be doing even better than we have been this year if we recruited better.

[superdimitri]

What utter rubbish.

We are looked on with envy by the majority of clubs up and down the country with what we've spent and our achievements to date.

You simply can't have poor recruitment and get into Europe, for example.

Rubbish? That is all you can come up with? What a wonderful insightful post. Another one for the ignore list I guess.

[Rileybobs]

I used them as an example for good recruitment. They may spend more money and may be responsible for cheating but they still rely on the scouts to find them targets that improve the team which they have done and we haven't. It's all relative to what you can afford of course, but I feel we would be doing even better than we have been this year if we recruited better.

You cannot say with any credibility that our recruitment under Dyche has been poor. We may not have made the signings that you would have liked us to make but that’s a totally different matter.

We’ve spent a relatively tiny amount of money and have outperformed teams who have spent far far more money than us. We have bought players for peanuts and sold them for huge sums. How can that possibly be poor recruitment?

[superdimitri]

You cannot say with any credibility that our recruitment under Dyche has been poor. We may not have made the signings that you would have liked us to make but that’s a totally different matter.

We’ve spent a relatively tiny amount of money and have outperformed teams who have spent far far more money than us. We have bought players for peanuts and sold them for huge sums. How can that possibly be poor recruitment?

I thought we were talking about the past couple of seasons, not the entire time Dyche has been here. Our recruitment in the past has been very good and has drastically declined the past two seasons. Main bugbear from me is that we haven't been able to build on our first 11.

[ewanrob]

It looks like we chose to invest in longer contracts with players whom we knew would do a job for us, rather than spend money on risks shall we say....and it's worked, not always been easy but has worked. The test is this summer, a lot out of contract and some ageing players...I would say this summer will be a defining time for us.

[dsr]

As at June 2018, Leicester City's squad cost £238m, Burnley's squad cost £96m. That may perhaps be one of the reasons their recruitment is "better".

[superdimitri]

As at June 2018, Leicester City's squad cost £238m, Burnley's squad cost £96m. That may perhaps be one of the reasons their recruitment is "better".

All that shows is there existing players are harder to replace. They sold Maguire for 80m and invested that money sensibly on players that improved their first 11.

We however have invested mainly in back up players to tide us over. That's even evident from this very article.

If Vydra and Gibson got run ins and we're an improvement over what we have that's good recruitment, if they don't it's bad recruitment.. It's as simple as that. They spent what they could spend on transfers and got good value whilst we haven't.

In the past couple of seasons of course. We have had great value in the past with players like Gray, Ings, Austin, Trippier, Mee, Pope, Taylor, Tarkowski etc

Who have we signed in the past two seasons that can honestly match any of those for impact and coming in and improving the first 11?

[superdimitri]

It looks like we chose to invest in longer contracts with players whom we knew would do a job for us, rather than spend money on risks shall we say....and it's worked, not always been easy but has worked. The test is this summer, a lot out of contract and some ageing players...I would say this summer will be a defining time for us.

Definitely. We must bring in players who are better than the players we field to improve. Having the right squad depth is a minimum requirement.

[Vegas Claret]

the one area the club continually fail on is the psychology with fans - there isn't a person on planet earth who doesn't feed off hope. All we ever hear is "it's difficult, we wont be doing this, we can't be doing that, we can't afford to do this, the board won't let me have this bla bla bla" - it would be far more beneficial for us all to hear "it might be difficult but we will try our best". It really is the only thing that I think we could drastically improve on.

Signings for the most part have been good and influential, I have no interest in us going out and overpaying for some "name" player so I think the policy has been reasonable.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

the one area the club continually fail on is the psychology with fans - there isn't a person on planet earth who doesn't feed off hope. All we ever hear is "it's difficult, we wont be doing this, we can't be doing that, we can't afford to do this, the board won't let me have this bla bla bla" - it would be far more beneficial for us all to hear "it might be difficult but we will try our best". It really is the only thing that I think we could drastically improve on.

Signings for the most part have been good and influential, I have no interest in us going out and overpaying for some "name" player so I think the policy has been reasonable.

Good point. I also don't see why it has to be this "all eggs in one basket" scenario.

If you need 4 players every year the way to lessen risk of failure is to spread the recruitment around.
Take your best scouted European option, your best out of contract experienced player, your best championship pick and a wild card that you have a hunch on.

Far better than signing 4 Erik Pieters, or 4 Jelle Vossens.

[BOYSIE31]

I’m damn sure you can use league and position in it to measure recruitment. That’s how it works. You drop if you don’t get your recruitment right and we, generally have done.

We have got recruitment right otherwise we would not be where we are - the problem we have is now adding to it or finding the next replacements and that has took one hell of a battering these last 2 seasons and that is why our first 11 as hardly changed but they are all 2 years older and we have the oldest squad in english football.

[Hipper]

I thought we were talking about the past couple of seasons, not the entire time Dyche has been here. Our recruitment in the past has been very good and has drastically declined the past two seasons. Main bugbear from me is that we haven't been able to build on our first 11.

But we have. Surely on recent evidence Rodriguez is an asset to the first team? He may not be better then other first teamers but he's at least just as good and also different. You may argue that he's 29 but that means there's good reason to think we might get at least three years out of him. If McNeil or Brownhill prove to be really good we probably won't get much more then three years out of them either. Like Keane or Trippier.

Of course I would have liked to see more talent arrive but the OP's article surely explains, if it was needed, why it is not so easy. Perhaps you should read it again.

[ClaretTony]

Well I'm glad I made you chuckle Tony. Not sure why, but there you go.

How you can think our recruitment has been good I have no idea. We have an ageing squad and Brownhill aside (jury is still out with him) we haven't added any talent for the future. This season we signed a player on loan who from day 1 clearly wasn't interested in playing for us and we still haven't addressed a big weakness at right back.

Our recruitment has been laughing stock of other clubs. Deals not going through at the last minute because of penny pinching. Resorting to lower priority targets because we haven't been able to bring in our first choice and signing players for big fees (for us) that aren't good enough to stake a claim in the first team. One of which has thrown his toys out of the pram and gone back home despite being contracted to us.


They recruited top players, for relatively little cash that have been able to step into their first team and improve them compared to last season. Compared to us who are mostly playing with the same lineup as we did last year its clear they have had better recruitment than we have. They may have made mistakes, every club does. But they have a record of bringing in players in that step in and improve their first 11. For me that is good recruitment.

Meanwhile we waste 30m on two players who don't even get game time. In relative terms those players cost much more to us than Leicester's failed signings have to them. We could have easily signed players like Evans, Maddison and Soyunco and if you believe this article, we would have already been aware of them. That is much better business than signing Vydra and Gibson.

Well that's made me laugh even more. Recruitment a laughing stock? You clearly have absolutely no understanding of our recruitment and you also clearly have no understanding as to how it compares with other similar clubs and Leicester are not a similar club. We could have easily signed players like Evans, Maddison and Soyuncu. Really? So you know how much they cost in terms of fee, package and salaries do you?

[Stproc]

I don't think you can use league position and results to measure recruitment.

But surely this is the only measure that matters.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I am amazed dimitri isn't more involved with football.

A recruitment expert to go along with his expertise on everything in our youth set up (despite having no knowledge of any age group) and he isn't involved in the club more seems a massive chance missed by our board.

[quoonbeatz]

We have had great value in the past with players like Gray, Ings, Austin, Trippier, Mee, Pope, Taylor, Tarkowski etc

Who have we signed in the past two seasons that can honestly match any of those for impact and coming in and improving the first 11?

All but of those were signed for the championship, very different to the PL. Three of them hardly made an impact as they didn't play for at least a year after joining us and Taylor took a while to really find his feet.

[NL Claret]

Another thread that has given a handful of UTC posters the opportunity for them to tell us how they would have done it differently and how badly Dyche and the club has got it wrong.

A couple of favourite posts - the comparison with Leicester City, not sure where that came from, when did we get cash rich owners?

Laughing stock? Do supporters of the club genuinely think that? I work with fans of most north west clubs and they only have respect for the club and Sean Dyche.

[Tall Paul]

Leicester's recruitment can't be that good, they won the league in 2016 and haven't come close again since.

[Stproc]

I am amazed dimitri isn't more involved with football.

A recruitment expert to go along with his expertise on everything in our youth set up (despite having no knowledge of any age group) and he isn't involved in the club more seems a massive chance missed by our board.

It’s just another example of our poor recruitment

[BOYSIE31]

I am amazed dimitri isn't more involved with football.

A recruitment expert to go along with his expertise on everything in our youth set up (despite having no knowledge of any age group) and he isn't involved in the club more seems a massive chance missed by our board.

I think he makes some valid points and i agree with a all of them

[Colburn_Claret]

As at June 2018, Leicester City's squad cost £238m, Burnley's squad cost £96m. That may perhaps be one of the reasons their recruitment is "better".

You do realise you're ******* in the wind

[claretonthecoast1882]

I think he makes some valid points and i agree with a all of them

Going off your meltdown on twitter last week I would have expected you to.

Unless there are 2 boysies who constantly moan about the money we have wasted and the bad signings. Maybe it is in the name who knows

[Colburn_Claret]

Good point. I also don't see why it has to be this "all eggs in one basket" scenario.

If you need 4 players every year the way to lessen risk of failure is to spread the recruitment around.
Take your best scouted European option, your best out of contract experienced player, your best championship pick and a wild card that you have a hunch on.

Far better than signing 4 Erik Pieters, or 4 Jelle Vossens.

Eric Pieters cost peanuts, to do a specific job, and he's done it very well. Far better than we could have hoped. Just remember what Spurs paid for Aurier....

[CombatClaret]

No, not volumes at all. I understand our transfer policy (and didn't need to read this article to realise that either). But there are teams that spend less on players and get better value. You can look at clubs like Leicester in the past few seasons to see the kind of excellent recruitment that would help us move forward, or more recently Sheffield United.

A comparison with Leicester is bonkers as pointed out above. And Sheffield recent transfer business totals £62million compared to our £17million so saying these teams have spent less (even on a player by player basis) is a bit odd.

We've not spent over £9million on a player this season. Leicester and Sheffield have bought three over and above this totaling £134million in this season alone.

[NL Claret]

Going off your meltdown on twitter last week I would have expected you to.

Unless there are 2 boysies who constantly moan about the money we have wasted and the bad signings. Maybe it is in the name who knows

Do you not use the mute function on Twitter?

[claretonthecoast1882]

Do you not use the mute function on Twitter?

No it is too funny not to read

[BOYSIE31]

Going off your meltdown on twitter last week I would have expected you to.

Unless there are 2 boysies who constantly moan about the money we have wasted and the bad signings. Maybe it is in the name who knows

Not on twitter bud

[BOYSIE31]

Eric Pieters cost peanuts, to do a specific job, and he's done it very well. Far better than we could have hoped. Just remember what Spurs paid for Aurier....

Ha have you seen how many goals conceded when he has played

[NL Claret]

Ha have you seen how many goals conceded when he has played

Some posters were complaining last week about how much money was wasted on a "back up centre half", this week they are complaining about cheap reserve left backs. I can't keep up.

[BOYSIE31]

Some posters were complaining last week about how much money was wasted on a "back up centre half", this week they are complaining about cheap reserve left backs. I can't keep up.

Its all about opinions - thats why its a great game

[dsr]

Some posters were complaining last week about how much money was wasted on a "back up centre half", this week they are complaining about cheap reserve left backs. I can't keep up.

Perhaps the point is that the first team centre haves didn't get injured so we didn't need an expensive backup; but the first team left back did get injured, so we needed a more expensive backup.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Not on twitter bud

Then you have a twin

What are the odds on there being a boysie on here who moans about our transfers and constantly tells people that the board are reluctant to give Dyche money due to his expensive non playing signings as well as a boysie on twitter making the same claims pretty much word for word ?

Maybe it is in the name after all

[CrosspoolClarets]

Just seen this interview. The line that jumped out at me was:

says Butterworth. “The owner could possibly loosen those purse strings but he doesn’t do it, so we have to find a solution around that”

Right or wrong that sentence probably epitomises the main gripe the coaching staff and fans have. No doubts there is scope to loosen while remaining viable, but also no doubt Dyche could wheel and deal more, generating his own transfer pot. Also no doubt both those two things could work, and both could go wrong.

The thing with cautious pragmatists, there is no way to know what would have happened if they took more risks, which can be frustrating even though it avoids disaster.

[BOYSIE31]

Then you have a twin

What are the odds on there being a boysie on here who moans about our transfers and constantly tells people that the board are reluctant to give Dyche money due to his expensive non playing signings as well as a boysie on twitter making the same claims pretty much word for word ?

Maybe it is in the name after all

Ha i hope not

[claretonthecoast1882]

Ha i hope not

It could be the start of an internet wide boysie movement, no matter where you go there is a boysie there ranting

[BOYSIE31]

Then you have a twin

What are the odds on there being a boysie on here who moans about our transfers and constantly tells people that the board are reluctant to give Dyche money due to his expensive non playing signings as well as a boysie on twitter making the same claims pretty much word for word ?

Maybe it is in the name after all

I dont moan about everything - all i have done is say since getting into europe the other season we have not improved our 1st eleven - that is all and the recruitment has been poor.

But perhaps i have to repeat myself on here as the usual posters dont agree but probably dont get it.

[claretspice]

Recruitment, in the main has been outstanding - that's why we are where we are. Apart from Mee, who has been here since god was a boy now, the players on the pitch are all a manifestation of our recruitment policy in the last 5-6 years. The performance of those players relative to their cost over a sustained period of time will outstrip every other club in the country.

That's credit where credit is due. The challenge and the concern remains that no recruitment strategy remains current forever, which is why we don't have a team full of players scouted in the north east and developed in the youth team, as was the case in the 60s. The effectiveness of the strategy which has delivered such spectacular output between about 2014 and 2018 has been open to a bit more question since then as the market conditions have changed - Dyche himself has said that - and it's still valid to question what happens next. Indeed Butterworth says as much in that article, and acknowledges that there's a rebuilding job ahead. The club has to have a plan to deliver that rebuild successfully - it won't be guaranteed to work, but we have to have a go, and that will entail either taking more risk, or paying more.

What we can't do is rely on the old model continuing to work without change, and neither the fact that we managed to capture Brownhill in the last window, nor the current run of form, alters that. It just puts it into perspective given how successful we've been before.

[BOYSIE31]

Recruitment, in the main has been outstanding - that's why we are where we are. Apart from Mee, who has been here since god was a boy now, the players on the pitch are all a manifestation of our recruitment policy in the last 5-6 years. The performance of those players relative to their cost over a sustained period of time will outstrip every other club in the country.

That's credit where credit is due. The challenge and the concern remains that no recruitment strategy remains current forever, which is why we don't have a team full of players scouted in the north east and developed in the youth team, as was the case in the 60s. The effectiveness of the strategy which has delivered such spectacular output between about 2014 and 2018 has been open to a bit more question since then as the market conditions have changed - Dyche himself has said that - and it's still valid to question what happens next. Indeed Butterworth says as much in that article, and acknowledges that there's a rebuilding job ahead. The club has to have a plan to deliver that rebuild successfully - it won't be guaranteed to work, but we have to have a go, and that will entail either taking more risk, or paying more.

What we can't do is rely on the old model continuing to work without change, and neither the fact that we managed to capture Brownhill in the last window, nor the current run of form, alters that. It just puts it into perspective given how successful we've been before.

I agree so could be an exciting summer ahead

[Tricky Trevor]

Not Barnes but the other 4 possibly...
Mumbongo, Jensen, O'Neill and Legzdins?

This was first team appearances, Turfy. Above it was pointed out he probably meant Northern Ireland so was counting Long, Brady & Hendrick.

[NL Claret]

Perhaps the point is that the first team centre haves didn't get injured so we didn't need an expensive backup; but the first team left back did get injured, so we needed a more expensive backup.

The recruitment team must then need to predict who will get injured and spend accordingly?

[superdimitri]

I think he makes some valid points and i agree with a all of them

Thanks. It's hard to have a balanced discussion on here without people taking personal snipes at anyone who offers any criticism to the club. If you have an opinion and make any points you are quickly shot down. I'll have to re read the forum rules I think because clearly I'm missing something about this message board.

It seems like they rate our opinion so highly that we should apply for scouting jobs at the club! Perhaps one day when Burnley are underperforming they may take off their tinted glasses and come back to the real world. Nonetheless it's really nice that at least some people can take the time to be nice and complimentary, you don't often find such acts of kindness nowadays, especially when it comes from such mighty super fans!

I suspect the same fans would be happy with our recruitment if we were signing players for millions who end up being paid to train at a different club..oh wait.

True fans? Well in my opinion, not the people that feel we can do no wrong, that feel any criticism is injust and that BFC can do no wrong. I think true fans actually care and want to see improvement, who want to see the club do better and truly believe they can.

The clubs PR team may be dead-set making sure fans know it's not possible for us to improve but I'm glad I don't feel that way and I'm glad Dyche and the players don't either. I suspect if we didn't think we could improve we wouldn't be where we are and we certainly wouldn't have signed Brownhill.

I'm looking forward to a positive summer because I'm hoping the club has learnt from the awful recruitment in the last couple of years. If we can get that right and get back to making quality signing like we have in the past, just the same as results on the pitch we can really show what we're about, more so than mid table/survival mediocrity.

[Vegas Claret]

Thanks. It's hard to have a balanced discussion on here without people taking personal snipes at anyone who offers any criticism to the club. If you have an opinion and make any points you are quickly shot down. I'll have to re read the forum rules I think because clearly I'm missing something about this message board.

It seems like they rate our opinion so highly that we should apply for scouting jobs at the club! Perhaps one day when Burnley are underperforming they may take off their tinted glasses and come back to the real world. Nonetheless it's really nice that at least some people can take the time to be nice and complimentary, you don't often find such acts of kindness nowadays, especially when it comes from such mighty super fans!

I suspect the same fans would be happy with our recruitment if we were signing players for millions who end up being paid to train at a different club..oh wait.

True fans? Well in my opinion, not the people that feel we can do no wrong, that feel any criticism is injust and that BFC can do no wrong. I think true fans actually care and want to see improvement, who want to see the club do better and truly believe they can.

The clubs PR team may be dead-set making sure fans know it's not possible for us to improve but I'm glad I don't feel that way and I'm glad Dyche and the players don't either. I suspect if we didn't think we could improve we wouldn't be where we are and we certainly wouldn't have signed Brownhill.

I'm looking forward to a positive summer because I'm hoping the club has learnt from the awful recruitment in the last couple of years. If we can get that right and get back to making quality signing like we have in the past, just the same as results on the pitch we can really show what we're about, more so than mid table/survival mediocrity.

I thought this was a fairly reasonable post until "mid table/survival mediocrity"

If you genuinely believe that Burnley being a mid table Premier league team represents "mid table/survival mediocrity" then I'm sorry, you have no idea.

[superdimitri]

I thought this was a fairly reasonable post until "mid table/survival mediocrity"

If you genuinely believe that Burnley being a mid table Premier league team represents "mid table/survival mediocrity" then I'm sorry, you have no idea.

I love that we are punching above our weight, but I believe with better recruitment we could do even better again. We already showed we could finish 7th. If we would have good instead of poor recruitment since then we would be capable of doing better than we are now.

[Vegas Claret]

I love that we are punching above our weight, but I believe with better recruitment we could do even better again. We already showed we could finish 7th. If we would have good instead of poor recruitment since then we would be capable of doing better than we are now.

yeah but all that is a very different thing to saying us finishing mid table in the PL is mediocrity

[boatshed bill]

Recruitment, in the main has been outstanding - that's why we are where we are. Apart from Mee, who has been here since god was a boy now, the players on the pitch are all a manifestation of our recruitment policy in the last 5-6 years. The performance of those players relative to their cost over a sustained period of time will outstrip every other club in the country.

That's credit where credit is due. The challenge and the concern remains that no recruitment strategy remains current forever, which is why we don't have a team full of players scouted in the north east and developed in the youth team, as was the case in the 60s. The effectiveness of the strategy which has delivered such spectacular output between about 2014 and 2018 has been open to a bit more question since then as the market conditions have changed - Dyche himself has said that - and it's still valid to question what happens next. Indeed Butterworth says as much in that article, and acknowledges that there's a rebuilding job ahead. The club has to have a plan to deliver that rebuild successfully - it won't be guaranteed to work, but we have to have a go, and that will entail either taking more risk, or paying more.

What we can't do is rely on the old model continuing to work without change, and neither the fact that we managed to capture Brownhill in the last window, nor the current run of form, alters that. It just puts it into perspective given how successful we've been before.

I think we can see the next step, bringing through a couple of our home-developed players.

[superdimitri]

yeah but all that is a very different thing to saying us finishing mid table in the PL is mediocrity

In the grand scheme of things no. Against our opposition we are mediocre.

All I'm trying to say is I want more, to want more you have to recognise your mistakes and I feel like recruitment is an area we can improve a lot on in the future.

[Spijed]

Thanks. It's hard to have a balanced discussion on here without people taking personal snipes at anyone who offers any criticism to the club. If you have an opinion and make any points you are quickly shot down. I'll have to re read the forum rules I think because clearly I'm missing something about this message board.

It seems like they rate our opinion so highly that we should apply for scouting jobs at the club! Perhaps one day when Burnley are underperforming they may take off their tinted glasses and come back to the real world. Nonetheless it's really nice that at least some people can take the time to be nice and complimentary, you don't often find such acts of kindness nowadays, especially when it comes from such mighty super fans!

I suspect the same fans would be happy with our recruitment if we were signing players for millions who end up being paid to train at a different club..oh wait.

True fans? Well in my opinion, not the people that feel we can do no wrong, that feel any criticism is injust and that BFC can do no wrong. I think true fans actually care and want to see improvement, who want to see the club do better and truly believe they can.

The clubs PR team may be dead-set making sure fans know it's not possible for us to improve but I'm glad I don't feel that way and I'm glad Dyche and the players don't either. I suspect if we didn't think we could improve we wouldn't be where we are and we certainly wouldn't have signed Brownhill.

I'm looking forward to a positive summer because I'm hoping the club has learnt from the awful recruitment in the last couple of years. If we can get that right and get back to making quality signing like we have in the past, just the same as results on the pitch we can really show what we're about, more so than mid table/survival mediocrity.

Go on then, if we got everything right, how high do you really think we could finish in the Premier league, not just as a one off but on a regular basis, especially considering no club has EVER achieved what we have in the modern Premier league era, based on the fact we have no rich owners?

[dsr]

In the grand scheme of things no. Against our opposition we are mediocre.

All I'm trying to say is I want more, to want more you have to recognise your mistakes and I feel like recruitment is an area we can improve a lot on in the future.

Well, there is the unbreachable gap between different supporters' views. you look at the teams above us (which are Liverpool, Man City, Leicester, Chelsea, Tottenham, Sheff United, Man United, Wolves, Everton, Arsenal) and say Burnley are not doing well enough because thhose 10 teams are currently better than us. They have recruited better players, which is why they aree above us in the table. Therefore Burnley's recruitment is only mediocre because the likes of Arsenal, ahead of us on goal difference, have better players.

How much does money come into it? I agree, it would be better if the club never made mistakes and every single signing was the best signing in the world. But that would be nonsense. It can't happen. you might as well criticise the man who scored 6 goals because he had a 7th chance which he missed. It's pointless to criticise the merely brilliant because they aren't perfect.

Criticism of imperfections is fair comment. But to use terms like "mediocre", as if we are about on a par with other clubs of similar sizes, is nonsense.