https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... calls-ifabArsène Wenger is pressing to change the offside rule in his role as Fifa’s head of global development and his proposal could be passed in time for the Euro 2020 finals.
The former Arsenal manager wants a player to be onside if any part of their body that can score a goal is behind or level with the relevant defender.
His move follows a series of VAR decisions in which goals have been disallowed because a player has been fractionally offside.
A header by Chelsea’s Olivier Giroud against Manchester United on Monday was disallowed because part of his right boot was offside, for example, and Liverpool’s Roberto Firmino had a goal disallowed because of an armpit offside against Aston Villa.
“The most difficult [issue] that people have [with VAR] is the offside rule,” Wenger said at the Laureus Sports Awards in Berlin. “You have had offsides by a fraction of a centimetre, literally by a nose. It is the time to do this quickly.
“There is room to change the rule and not say that a part of a player’s nose is offside, so you are offside because you can score with that. Instead, you will be not be offside if any part of the body that can score a goal is in line with the last defender, even if other parts of the attacker’s body are in front.
“That will sort it out and you will no longer have decisions about millimetres and a fraction of the attacker being in front of the defensive line.”
Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
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Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Nothing against the change but it doesn’t alter the red and blue lines. You are just checking from a different perspective
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
“You have had offsides by a fraction of a centimetre, literally by a nose."
He'd be consistently offside in today's game
He'd be consistently offside in today's game
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Just scrap offside,along with VAR...make the game enjoyable ffs.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
So the only part of the body you can't score with is arm or hand. You can score with your nadger if it's sticking out.
So doesn't that just mean if your arm or hand is offside, you're offside?
So doesn't that just mean if your arm or hand is offside, you're offside?
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
This is a very good proposal and hopefully the authorities will listen. I like Wenger. He brought some great football to Arsenal but he just didn't know when it was time to bow out.
Being offside because your heel is behind a defender is just absolute nonsense. Everyone knows it and it's about time the stupidity of it was exposed for what it is and then changed.
Being offside because your heel is behind a defender is just absolute nonsense. Everyone knows it and it's about time the stupidity of it was exposed for what it is and then changed.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Have thicker red and blue lines to increase the margin of error. If they touch then remain with the on-field decision....umpire’s call.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
I could easilly be offside with my 'nadger'.FactualFrank wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:49 amSo the only part of the body you can't score with is arm or hand. You can score with your nadger if it's sticking out.
So doesn't that just mean if your arm or hand is offside, you're offside?
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
I wonder if VAR have ever called Zlatan offside with his nose.its gonna happen.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Good old Arsen....hes changed his tune! Though a top manager not appreciated by those that knew Best.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Offside should be clarified as " the players torso " , like a sprint finish photo in athletics ... job done !
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Who cares at least we would see goalsFactualFrank wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:58 amYou'd then have players camped in the opposition's penalty area with no football being played.
Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
As I read it then it's the opposite way round.? Let's say the defender is on a VAR red - blue line, the attacker could be looking down that line and have the majority of his body already over that line, just one of his legs/ foot on the line or in line with the defender. Have I got that right ?
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
We could also just have the need for there to be a gap between forward and defender. Then there would be no need for, "Is that his hand?" - there's either space between forward and defender or there isn't.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Rhubarb!Clarets4me wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:00 amOffside should be clarified as " the players torso " , like a sprint finish photo in athletics ... job done !
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Complicating the most simple game in the world leave it alone ffs .....VAR is not solving anything just creating more uncertainties......the beautiful game is beingturned into a very ugly beast.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
With VAR, they could do what they do in tennis - you have X number of chances for the team to use VAR. If the initial decision is shown to be correct, you only have 2 chances left.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
It is still the same numpties looking at the screen and still the same lines being used, just in a different area. Pointless change.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
I like Wenger, (Best England manager we never had.) but this proposal just moves the goalposts. We will still have ridiculously marginal offsides, no matter what part of the body is excluded. Maybe just scrap offside altogether?
It's time to scrap VAR completely. Before VAR, we had one man making a final decision (The referee.) Now, we have one man making a final decision, sometimes from hundreds of miles away, and those decisions are very often wrong and widely ridiculed. So what's the point of it? All it does is frustrate fans and take away that moment of ecstasy when your team scores, because now we have to wait ages to know if a mini foul five minutes earlier in the game was committed. That mini foul might have been seen by the onfield ref but he didn't judge it as a foul and let it go, only for it to count later. Stupid.
It's time to scrap VAR completely. Before VAR, we had one man making a final decision (The referee.) Now, we have one man making a final decision, sometimes from hundreds of miles away, and those decisions are very often wrong and widely ridiculed. So what's the point of it? All it does is frustrate fans and take away that moment of ecstasy when your team scores, because now we have to wait ages to know if a mini foul five minutes earlier in the game was committed. That mini foul might have been seen by the onfield ref but he didn't judge it as a foul and let it go, only for it to count later. Stupid.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
The clear...and obvious.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Wengers proposal imo, its quit a sensible step forward and would be more workable and less controversial that what we currently have in place. Open water is open water
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Scrap the red and blue lines. Give the VAR 5 seconds to review by eye. If it's too close to call go with on field decision.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
FactualFrank wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:58 amYou'd then have players camped in the opposition's penalty area with no football being played.
It could benefit us enormously, simply bypassing the midfield and lumping straight from back to front (* caveat, according to quite a few perceptions on here )
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Would it not be exactly the same though just flipped on its head....houseboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:50 amThis is a very good proposal and hopefully the authorities will listen. I like Wenger. He brought some great football to Arsenal but he just didn't know when it was time to bow out.
Being offside because your heel is behind a defender is just absolute nonsense. Everyone knows it and it's about time the stupidity of it was exposed for what it is and then changed.
All of a players body is off side apart from the toe of his trailing leg therefore deemed onside. How the hell are defenders supposed to play for that.
Its frustrating but I think it's better as it is. There has to be a line somewhere that gets crossed or not whether that be by the finest of margins or not. Offside is offside.
The tech could be better I guess and detailed about how accurate it is.
This was always good g to be the case when introducing var. It was quite clear there would be marginal decision ...they have happening forever.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Wenger's proposal takes that into account by saying a player is offside if any part of the body that can score is offside. Therefore if a players foot is onside but the rest of him isn't he is offside.alboclaret wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:28 amWould it not be exactly the same though just flipped on its head....
All of a players body is off side apart from the toe of his trailing leg therefore deemed onside. How the hell are defenders supposed to play for that.
Its frustrating but I think it's better as it is. There has to be a line somewhere that gets crossed or not whether that be by the finest of margins or not. Offside is offside.
The tech could be better I guess and detailed about how accurate it is.
This was always good g to be the case when introducing var. It was quite clear there would be marginal decision ...they have happening forever.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
This will be much better, as I understand this it means clear daylight between both players to be offside, your torso can be in front of the defender as long as your foot is at least level with the defender. If you arm is level with the defender you are offside because you can’t score with your arm. This gives the advantage to the attacker, Pukkis goal against Spurs (I think) was given offside because he was leaning forward poised to sprint with this change that would be a goal.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Most of the other laws of the game that are to do with a player's position are measured on where the player's feet are; other parts of the body are ignored. For example encroachment is usually measured on where the player's feet are, not their protruding arm, shoulder or, in Matthew Le Tissier's case, nose. Same with walls and free kicks. And goalkeepers can wave their arms forward of the line but their feet must be on it, etc. So to measure offside only on the position of the attacker's feet would bring the offside rule into line with others (and probably make it simpler and less contentious to apply, too).
Also, a further subtle but significant change in the offside law could be that an attacking player is only offside if BOTH feet are in an offside position. Like now, that will not always be easily visible to the naked eye in real time, and defenders will still be able to step forward to catch a player offside, but allowing an attacker to keep one foot ahead of the defender might promote a more open game.
Also, a further subtle but significant change in the offside law could be that an attacking player is only offside if BOTH feet are in an offside position. Like now, that will not always be easily visible to the naked eye in real time, and defenders will still be able to step forward to catch a player offside, but allowing an attacker to keep one foot ahead of the defender might promote a more open game.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
An excellent proposal by Wenger
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Not actually sure I fully understand what he means, but I would go further and say you should only be offside if the body part you score the goal with was offside - so your head could be offside if you scored with your feet and visa versa.
I also cannot understand why the refs can't carry phones/screens and assess themselves on the pitch, then make the decision. Also think decisions should only be referred to VAR by captains and each captain should have a maximum number of referrals.
I also cannot understand why the refs can't carry phones/screens and assess themselves on the pitch, then make the decision. Also think decisions should only be referred to VAR by captains and each captain should have a maximum number of referrals.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
That's literally the opposite of what he has proposed. If the foot is onside, he is onside. If only his arm is onside, he is offside.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Ha ha I don't bloody know now bud. I took it as if any part of his body that can score is offside then he is, if the part that is offside isn't a part of his body that can score then he isn't.deanothedino wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:34 amThat's literally the opposite of what he has proposed. If the foot is onside, he is onside. If only his arm is onside, he is offside.
Oh FFS I'm leaviing this alone now - my head hurts.
Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
When he was Asenal manager though he didnt see anything.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Before long all players will be wearing electronic devices that will instantaneously determine whether any part of a players body is in relation to an oppostition player.
Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
the man who spent a quarter of a century"not seeing" the clear and obvious is being given an opinion on VAR!
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
I agree 100%. 5 seconds from when the picture goes on the screen; if the spare ref can't be sure the linesman was wrong, then the linesman is right.Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:24 amScrap the red and blue lines. Give the VAR 5 seconds to review by eye. If it's too close to call go with on field decision.
Basically it would mean that we would be back where we have been for years - level is onside.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Exactly!! This has to be the best option, no tweaking the line to the exact point, surely the line can be the potential position when the ball is kicked? I'd have said get rid of the lines and if it looks offside it is, but it takes them a lifetime to decide with them and they still seem to ignore the clear and obvious ruling.
The fact managers are asking for refs to go and look at a monitor is painful. Especially as the reason this wasn't used is because they complained about the time it took to get to the monitor and then watch it a few times leaving the players to freeze in potentially poor weather conditions. Heaven forbid VAR usage changes to make sure its a quick process with common sense.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
That fact that var is now in place for me is and will continue to let the officials shirk decisions. If they shirk a close off side and let var decide in say 5/10seconds. If they cant the it goes back to a shirked decision.
Then as the game progresses and during ht or at ft they will be other pictures showing what decision it should have been. It's a bloody minefield.
Maybe the shout about what part of the body you score with, was that offside. I can go with that but might take long to decide or could be really quick. I think it would be lots of fast decisions but the odd really long one.
Then as the game progresses and during ht or at ft they will be other pictures showing what decision it should have been. It's a bloody minefield.
Maybe the shout about what part of the body you score with, was that offside. I can go with that but might take long to decide or could be really quick. I think it would be lots of fast decisions but the odd really long one.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
He's basically advocating that to be offside the whole of your body apart from your arms has to be beyond the defender (daylight rule effectively), this would lend itself nicely to VAR checks being with just a Mk1 eyeball imo, rather than drawing lines etc.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
exactly this, take the lines away and then if it's clear and obvious it's clear and obviousTricky Trevor wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:24 amScrap the red and blue lines. Give the VAR 5 seconds to review by eye. If it's too close to call go with on field decision.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Ha ha. You know mate, I'm not sure what he is saying now. Maybe I have interepreted it wrong.
Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Clear daylight would, I’d have thought, be the simplest solution, with the exception of arms (i.e not classed as onside if just an arm is level).
It would bring slightly more advantage to the attacker, be far less frustrating and probably bring a few more goals with it. Surely that would be better than aiming to get to the level of measuring toenails!
I’d also like the see off sides flagged when it’s blatantly obvious that just one attacker is in the vicinity of play. There are occasions now that they are not flagged until the reach the ball - it’s pointless and in some instances, dangerous.
It would bring slightly more advantage to the attacker, be far less frustrating and probably bring a few more goals with it. Surely that would be better than aiming to get to the level of measuring toenails!
I’d also like the see off sides flagged when it’s blatantly obvious that just one attacker is in the vicinity of play. There are occasions now that they are not flagged until the reach the ball - it’s pointless and in some instances, dangerous.
Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
Wenger's idea just moves the argument. Defender on the right, attacker on the left. Today the attacker is 3 yards offside. With Wenger's idea he's just onside. Depending on where the VAR officials draw their lines and where the camera frame happened to be when the ball left the boot of the passer.
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Re: Arsène Wenger uses Fifa role to propose new offside law
We're talking individual frames, whichever way you look at it.
So you can't score with your arm, but you can with your shoulder. At what point does the shoulder become the arm, in terms of video frames?
Perhaps we should just go with there needing to be a gap between forward and defender. If there's no gap, he's onside, regardless of what part of the body it is. This removes any need to distinguish body parts and which part of the body. It'll also produce more goals, although of course make it more difficult for defenders.
So you can't score with your arm, but you can with your shoulder. At what point does the shoulder become the arm, in terms of video frames?
Perhaps we should just go with there needing to be a gap between forward and defender. If there's no gap, he's onside, regardless of what part of the body it is. This removes any need to distinguish body parts and which part of the body. It'll also produce more goals, although of course make it more difficult for defenders.