Boris Watch

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Spiral
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Spiral » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:18 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:28 pm
I'm talking generally, Burnley & non Burnley & before popes penalty save, actually around the time Boris became PM & we left the EU strangely enough, everybody seems to have a spring in their step whistling away as opposed to heads down & people becoming randomly moody. If you've not noticed it fair enough but I have.
You seem to be somewhat neurotically wrapped up in an arbitrary 'moment' to the extent that it might be affecting your reality. You seem to have convinced yourself that the 'event' - the thirty-first of January - was a moment of national salvation; a liberation, of sorts. To say nothing of your nerve to presume to speak to the happiness of other people, let alone that of a whole nation; in ways similar to those in which a Muslim's hunger and thirst throughout Eid affirms and reinforces their religiosity through the neurological associations created between the very real physical sensations they endure (hunger, thirst) and their own psychological cause (Islam), manifestly bonding the abstract (their religiosity) to the physical and the tangible (their hunger, thirst), thus - as they perceive - bringing 'God' into material life and deepening their religiosity through a sort of perverse Pavlovian conditioning; it appears you've convinced yourself that Brexit (as a spasm, a moment), now the 'event' has happened, was essential not only for the happiness of yourself, but of others, also, to the degree that you admittedly perceive a 'spring in the step' of strangers whose politics you could not possibly know. By wearing folks down through sheer repetition, this bond between the tangible (the whip - or, for example, the righteous fury felt in your belly upon reading an incendiary headline designed to incite you to a cause) and the abstract (the idea, the actual cause) is how cults function. For what it's worth, it's also how some psychosexual proclivities are engendered; for instance, some unfortunate folks can't cum without being choked because some trauma in their life forced them, outside of their will, to create an intrinsic association between those two things. You seem to have done something similar (or had something similar done to you) with Brexit and happiness, to such a degree that you're projecting it onto other people. You sound like a fanatic, to put it plainly. You're demonstrating something more than mere content or approval toward a foreign policy: something where a political policy determines, by your own admission, your mood and reality. The nutters still waving EU flags outside parliament aren't too dissimilar. I'll say this of Brexit: there are coherent and just arguments for it - with which I'd typically disagree, nonetheless - but I'd be absolutely embarrassed to hear you arguing in its favour were I a brexiteer.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:07 am

Spiral wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:18 am
You seem to be somewhat neurotically wrapped up in an arbitrary 'moment' to the extent that it might be affecting your reality. You seem to have convinced yourself that the 'event' - the thirty-first of January - was a moment of national salvation; a liberation, of sorts. To say nothing of your nerve to presume to speak to the happiness of other people, let alone that of a whole nation; in ways similar to those in which a Muslim's hunger and thirst throughout Eid affirms and reinforces their religiosity through the neurological associations created between the very real physical sensations they endure (hunger, thirst) and their own psychological cause (Islam), manifestly bonding the abstract (their religiosity) to the physical and the tangible (their hunger, thirst), thus - as they perceive - bringing 'God' into material life and deepening their religiosity through a sort of perverse Pavlovian conditioning; it appears you've convinced yourself that Brexit (as a spasm, a moment), now the 'event' has happened, was essential not only for the happiness of yourself, but of others, also, to the degree that you admittedly perceive a 'spring in the step' of strangers whose politics you could not possibly know. By wearing folks down through sheer repetition, this bond between the tangible (the whip - or, for example, the righteous fury felt in your belly upon reading an incendiary headline designed to incite you to a cause) and the abstract (the idea, the actual cause) is how cults function. For what it's worth, it's also how some psychosexual proclivities are engendered; for instance, some unfortunate folks can't cum without being choked because some trauma in their life forced them, outside of their will, to create an intrinsic association between those two things. You seem to have done something similar (or had something similar done to you) with Brexit and happiness, to such a degree that you're projecting it onto other people. You sound like a fanatic, to put it plainly. You're demonstrating something more than mere content or approval toward a foreign policy: something where a political policy determines, by your own admission, your mood and reality. The nutters still waving EU flags outside parliament aren't too dissimilar. I'll say this of Brexit: there are coherent and just arguments for it - with which I'd typically disagree, nonetheless - but I'd be absolutely embarrassed to hear you arguing in its favour were I a brexiteer.
I can only say what I see, the postman never used to smile & now he always looks cheerful despite some mornings even when it’s siling it down & the milkman always stops for a chat before he was sporadically moody & forever looked disgruntled. I’ve noticed the changes in (some) people’s behaviour since we’ve left, if other people haven’t experienced any changes I’m not sure, just seems more togetherness & time for other people as before people were more aloof & rarely engaged positively. It’s not unusual I don’t think to notice change when a massive occasion happens, you see similar on royal weddings etc, table parties & bunting etc but that usually lasts for the day, this seems to be going on for a lot longer & in a good way.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by TheFamilyCat » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:59 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:03 am
The electorate gave the mandate to TM, the part & parcel for that scope was to leave the EU, she was ideologically opposed to brexit as a remainer & it's been well publicised & documented how difficult she became in delivering the mandate in an effective sense, so many people within the group all felt a lack of support & no real direction to what the plan was supposed to be, hence the positions becoming untenable. The "sabotage" was simply not agreeing to the way she was going about the job & throwing spanners into works to disrupt her going against the task in hand.
TM didn't have a majority in the house (after the election she called) add to that the members of her own party, including Boris "Get Brexit Done" Johnson who voted against her and she had a mandate for **** all.

For someone who claims to do a lot of reading and research I'm surprised you missed that.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by dougcollins » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:27 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:07 am
I can only say what I see, the postman never used to smile & now he always looks cheerful despite some mornings even when it’s siling it down & the milkman always stops for a chat before he was sporadically moody & forever looked disgruntled. I’ve noticed the changes in (some) people’s behaviour since we’ve left, if other people haven’t experienced any changes I’m not sure, just seems more togetherness & time for other people as before people were more aloof & rarely engaged positively. It’s not unusual I don’t think to notice change when a massive occasion happens, you see similar on royal weddings etc, table parties & bunting etc but that usually lasts for the day, this seems to be going on for a lot longer & in a good way.
I'm just witnessing more and more examples of 'casual' racism which some seem to think has now become acceptable- as we are in an environment that supports that kind of behaviour.

So a little bit short of Utopia I'd suggest.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by nil_desperandum » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:41 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:17 pm
It certainly doesn't come across that way despite you stating contrary, & I don't think I'll be the only poster who has noticed that, when confronted with fact you are completely dismissive of opposing viewpoints & aim for a left wing view as a get out of jail card,
I find it incredible and extremely sad that people lack myself who have always regarded themselves, (and been considered by others) to be as very much in the centre ground - i.e. one nation, anti- racist, ("christian") democrats, anti-extremist, pro-environment, pro-fairness and equality, etc etc are now casually and lazily labelled as "left wing".
It just shows how far to the right people like Trump, Farage, Cummings and Johnson have led us. With the rise of right wing nationalism in many parts of the world, Putin in the east, ,and a quasi-Stalinist regime in China I find it deeply concerning.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by aggi » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:44 am

Jakubclaret's postie must have a hell of a round if he's representing the mood of the whole country.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Cryssys » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:55 am

Updated Feb 24 2020

It appears that all is not well in the corridors of power as rumours abound regarding deteriorating relationships between government ministers and senior civil servants. Yesterday, a report in the Sunday Times suggested that MI5 are withholding information from the Home Secretary Priti Patel because they don’t like/trust her.

The Sunday Times quoted unnamed officials claiming that MI5 found Patel “extremely difficult to deal with” and that she “doesn’t grasp the subtleties of intelligence”. One told the paper that she was now receiving less intelligence from MI5 than her predecessors as a consequence of her attitude.

It really does seem that Boris is taking his cues from Donald Trump. Like Trump he avoids the press, has tried to ban reporters he doesn’t like from attending government briefings whilst the party he leads appears to be at loggerheads with senior UK security personnel.
Last edited by Cryssys on Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:11 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:59 am
TM didn't have a majority in the house (after the election she called) add to that the members of her own party, including Boris "Get Brexit Done" Johnson who voted against her and she had a mandate for **** all.

For someone who claims to do a lot of reading and research I'm surprised you missed that.
I was referring to the starting position when DC handed the keys over, all that woman ever did was delay & delay, she was the PM she had the overall responsibility to ensure the process ran smoothly, p*ss up & brewery spring to mind & a lack of organisation.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:14 am

dougcollins wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:27 am
I'm just witnessing more and more examples of 'casual' racism which some seem to think has now become acceptable- as we are in an environment that supports that kind of behaviour.

So a little bit short of Utopia I'd suggest.
Or cultural erosion & feelings of detachment within mainstream society, some may say!

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:20 am

I think we need to cut Johnson some slack, his latest divorce has just been made final and he's bound to be upset by this. In addition, of course, creating his radical spending plans for education must have worn him out. They are so radical they are bringing spending levels up to those of 2010....
Give him a break !

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:19 pm

Fair play.

Doing a great job in extraordinary circumstances.

No evictions for 3 months is great news for renters.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by KateR » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:32 pm

yep we needed this thread again didn't we, I despair at times with some people on here.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by BennyD » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:39 pm

So do I; too many stupid Socialists. Perhaps they have forgotten that Burnley is now Tory and they are the minority.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:40 pm

Who ever was PM, this virus would have handed them a poison chalice.

An unenviable task of balancing, the natural humanitarian urge to preserve as many lives as is possible. And, trying to ensure that when, God willing, we come out of this horrendous situation. Theres actually a viable economy left to come out to.

The enormity of the task , whoever had to do it. Cannot be underestimated.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by bfcjg » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:13 pm

The guy is a human being. He has a pregnant wife who are in the high risk category we worry about our immediate family he has the pressure of the nation on his shoulders. As a nation we need to come together or we are stuffed.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:23 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:13 pm
The guy is a human being. He has a pregnant wife who are in the high risk category we worry about our immediate family he has the pressure of the nation on his shoulders. As a nation we need to come together or we are stuffed.

Hallebloodylujah.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by IWOODLOVETT » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:24 pm

Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell, Diane Abbott, Emily Thornberry, Rebecca Long-Bailey thank goodness the great British public saw the wood for the trees. How the hell would they have coped ??
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Volvoclaret » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:35 pm

Jeremy would have blamed the Jews, J Mc would have just laughed, RBL would have stuck her tongue further up JCs backside and D A would have told us all that there were 300,000000 confirmed cases in London alone.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:01 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:40 pm
Who ever was PM, this virus would have handed them a poison chalice.

An unenviable task of balancing, the natural humanitarian urge to preserve as many lives as is possible. And, trying to ensure that when, God willing, we come out of this horrendous situation. Theres actually a viable economy left to come out to.

The enormity of the task , whoever had to do it. Cannot be underestimated.
Until a few days ago Johnson was willing to let half a million of us die - as per the modelling. That’s why while other countries were putting strict measures in place, we were not. Only when his insouciance became public did Johnson begin to take action. Now we could be well behind the curve.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by levraiclaret » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:29 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:01 pm
Until a few days ago Johnson was willing to let half a million of us die - as per the modelling. That’s why while other countries were putting strict measures in place, we were not. Only when his insouciance became public did Johnson begin to take action. Now we could be well behind the curve.
To be fair it was only 255,000, but why are we so far behind on testing?

Surely we needed testing even with the herd immunity strategy?

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Taffy on the wing » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:38 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:01 pm
Until a few days ago Johnson was willing to let half a million of us die - as per the modelling. That’s why while other countries were putting strict measures in place, we were not. Only when his insouciance became public did Johnson begin to take action. Now we could be well behind the curve.
You'll never convince them!.........they are proper brainwashed.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:46 pm

levraiclaret wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:29 pm
To be fair it was only 255,000, but why are we so far behind on testing?

Surely we needed testing even with the herd immunity strategy?
Half a million on the “do nothing” option - which sums up government inaction until recently.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by NewClaret » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:15 pm

Think he’s doing an outstanding job in unprecedented times, personally. Very pleased he’s our PM.

Would prefer we took tougher action to isolate/protect the vulnerable and keep the rest of society going/building immunity to it all, but think that would be hard given the mounting scale of the crisis.

Keep it up, Boris.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Spijed » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:20 pm

If we end up with more deaths than other European countries I suspect Boris won't last long as PM as many questions will be asked.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by HieronymousBoschHobs » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:21 pm

Often the same people who moan about people politicising the crisis are the same time people praising Johnson's handling of the crisis.

If political critique is politicising the issue, then so too is political praise. If people refrain from praising Johnson, I will refrain from criticising him.

It goes both ways.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by arise_sir_charge » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:23 pm

Not a time for party politics but I have changed it for you.....

"Until a few days ago Johnson was , listening to his scientific advisers (who by the way would be the same experts whoever was in charge) and their analysis suggested that maybe 250k of us may die - as per the modelling. That’s why while other countries were putting strict measures in place, we were not. Only when his scientific advisers advised him otherwise did Johnson begin to take action and despite all this we are performing far better than all other European countries".

If you cannot see that those at the helm here are doing an amazing job under immense pressure, balancing the wants and needs of 67 million people against a back drop of saving lives not just from the virsu but from the long term economic disatser, then god help you.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by HieronymousBoschHobs » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:40 pm

Except, and I don't really want to go here, that's not the story everyone is telling. There are others saying the science did not change, but that the government and its advisors got it wrong:

'After weeks of inaction, the government announced a sudden U-turn on Monday, declaring that new modelling by scientists at Imperial College had convinced them to change their initial plans. Many journalists, led by the BBC, reported that “the science had changed” and so the government had responded accordingly. But this interpretation of events is wrong. The science has been the same since January. What changed is that government advisers at last understood what had really taken place in China'


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... vice-wrong

This article was written by the editor of the Lancet, which is, according to Wikipedia, 'is among the world's oldest, most prestigious, and best known general medical journals.'

They are doing the job they are there to do. On what basis, other than how they themselves describe their own performance, do you judge them to be doing an 'amazing job'?

Because there are plenty of people in the know who seem to think there has been room for improvement.

I mean, jesus, even one party state China had citizens critical of the government response, but I suppose for the same thing to take place here would somehow be beyond the pale?

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by beddie » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:53 pm

Given the latest news on School closure I think it's inevitable that we are about to go into lockdown, that will see the Army and others controlling our supermarkets and of course ensuring no one is out and about just for the sake of it.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by KateR » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:21 pm

interesting that the PM is listening to the experts and following there advice, in every country there must be different opinions from within the scientific and medical communities, it's not a question of having and poll and let's go with what the majority says. They are independent experts in there respective fields and others will question them and use yesterdays data to hit them with trying to score there own points, I would be appalled with anyone in the PM position making his own mind up and what is right and what is wrong.

I listened to a two hour Corvid-19, CNN broadcast I think, it was from the US that had a US senior Medical professor discussing what the US reaction and plans to come, he was questioned regarding the predictions and stated that they had used the modelling done in London, interrogated it. He also said these were probably the best people in the world at modelling this kind of thing and they would not discount the potential figures, therefore that was the US official basis for where they are going. It has to be recognized that the US works completely different from the UK, during the broadcast it was announced the Mayor of Houston had closed all bars, restaurants, theatres, cinemas etc. He also stated that this was done because in spite of all the warnings and to do social spacing the people of Houston were still going out, in many cases as though nothing had happened, therefore he was taking that responsibility to ensure they would, since they seemed unable to do it themselves. Houston was only the 3rd city in the US to do this starting at 8am 17 March.

Finally I would like to say that even if I do not like JC in a leadership role, had he become the PM at this time, I believe or at least would like to think I would not be snipping and blaming in these trouble times but can see that for a select few, this is an ideal opportunity to dig the knife in. Originally about him missing but now that he is on everyday it's just the same isn't it.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by tiger76 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:22 pm

I seriously can't believe the amount of petty points scoring,coming mainly from the left,we as a nation are about to face the biggest test probably we''ll encounter in our lifetimes,and all they can offer is personal insults.

Has the government's response been perfect,no it hasn't,but they are facing an unprecedented situation,as are all western nations,if Jeremy Corbyn was in charge he'd face the same dilemma's,and be forced to make hard choices.

I am certainly no fan of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP,but they've displayed leadership,and in extremely trying circumstances have toned down the usual rhetoric,as they realise we have to reach across party lines.

I smell sour grapes from the tribal Labour supporters,firstly due to brexit,and secondly due to the election result,it's about time they got over it,it's perfectly valid for the opposition to hold the sitting government to account,that's a staple of a functioning democracy,but this constant sniping is becoming tedious,give it a rest.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:25 pm

I am certainly no fan of Boris and the Tories and am normally very happy to criticise them but on this I just can't. That's not to say that I think they're doing a great job, simply because I just don't know. This is such an unprecedented event that I think it's impossible to know whether their actions are correct and we'll never know how things would have played out, for better or worse, if they'd made other decisions.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by arise_sir_charge » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:38 pm

HieronymousBoschHobs wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:40 pm
Except, and I don't really want to go here, that's not the story everyone is telling. There are others saying the science did not change, but that the government and its advisors got it wrong:

'After weeks of inaction, the government announced a sudden U-turn on Monday, declaring that new modelling by scientists at Imperial College had convinced them to change their initial plans. Many journalists, led by the BBC, reported that “the science had changed” and so the government had responded accordingly. But this interpretation of events is wrong. The science has been the same since January. What changed is that government advisers at last understood what had really taken place in China'


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... vice-wrong

This article was written by the editor of the Lancet, which is, according to Wikipedia, 'is among the world's oldest, most prestigious, and best known general medical journals.'

They are doing the job they are there to do. On what basis, other than how they themselves describe their own performance, do you judge them to be doing an 'amazing job'?

Because there are plenty of people in the know who seem to think there has been room for improvement.

I mean, jesus, even one party state China had citizens critical of the government response, but I suppose for the same thing to take place here would somehow be beyond the pale?
Those Government advisers would likely be exactly the same regardless of who is at the helm.

Stop politicising this, it’s pathetic.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:45 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:38 pm
Those Government advisers would likely be exactly the same regardless of who is at the helm.

Stop politicising this, it’s pathetic.
Give it a rest, there are three posts clearly scoring political points against the left before anyone countered them.

If you really believe what you wrote above that this should not about politics why dont you take them to task as they are the ones needlessly bringing politics into the discussion

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by arise_sir_charge » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:49 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:45 pm
Give it a rest, there are three posts clearly scoring political points against the left before anyone countered them.

If you really believe what you wrote above that this should not about politics why dont you take them to task as they are the ones needlessly bringing politics into the discussion
Because I’m interacting with the person who interacted with me. Quite a simple concept really.

On a broader point, anybody that tries to politicise this should be ashamed.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Spiral » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:05 pm

People swinging at phantoms again. This thread, started on Feb 20th became dormant on Feb 24th. Coronavirus has since happened. The thread (not the best one ever, to be fair) would have died a death had it not been revived tonight at 6.19pm (the clocks are an hour ahead on this forum) with eight consecutive posts either praising Johnson, attacking the opposition, or pushing back on criticism of Johnson - all decidedly not criticising Johnson. Get yourselves in order before accusing folk of inciting tribalism. This thread was a gonner before people started spoiling for a fight.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by NewClaret » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:11 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:25 pm
I am certainly no fan of Boris and the Tories and am normally very happy to criticise them but on this I just can't. That's not to say that I think they're doing a great job, simply because I just don't know. This is such an unprecedented event that I think it's impossible to know whether their actions are correct and we'll never know how things would have played out, for better or worse, if they'd made other decisions.
Totally agree.

Very difficult judgements to make. As a result of his announcements this week, I have been asked to work from home and that will result in bonus’ being deferred and at some point my salary being reduced. Not good at all. Now my kids education is going to suffer, when they have been going to school until now with no reported cases or staff shortages or health issues.

Those are very real impacts on my life and I’d probably have preferred he delay these decisions longer. But then when you hear 475 have died in Italy in the last 24 hours...

Tough calls. Everyone will have different perspectives depending on your age, financial security, etc. Boris’ job is to chart the best course for the entire nation - not a responsibility I would like testing on my shoulders.

We’ll never know whether his decisions were right or wrong so we should all stop debating it and get behind the National effort to fight this virus.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:55 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:01 pm
Until a few days ago Johnson was willing to let half a million of us die - as per the modelling. That’s why while other countries were putting strict measures in place, we were not. Only when his insouciance became public did Johnson begin to take action. Now we could be well behind the curve.
Andrew, Prime Minister Johnson is simply doing exactly, what Prime Minister, Corbyn/Starmer/Swinson would've had to do.

Which is, listening to the advice of the Chief Medical Officer and his team. That advice would have been the same, regardless of who had the keys to Number 10.

The modelling is based on a fast changing , and , very fluid situation. The variables will be changing by the hour. Importantly, initially, the information on which it was based, was coming from China. More recently it has been coming from Italy. The more information, the more accurate the advice should be.

The one and only reason the PM has changed the government's approach. Is because his advice has now changed.

As a socialist, you'll , no doubt, be familiar with the words of John Maynard Keynes -

"When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do, sir?"
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Spiral » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:11 am

I cannot f.king believe I'm actually saying this but...

...give me a minute...

I agree with Ringo. *shudder*

I'm taking a photo of this.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:41 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:55 pm
Andrew, Prime Minister Johnson is simply doing exactly, what Prime Minister, Corbyn/Starmer/Swinson would've had to do.

Which is, listening to the advice of the Chief Medical Officer and his team. That advice would have been the same, regardless of who had the keys to Number 10.

The modelling is based on a fast changing , and , very fluid situation. The variables will be changing by the hour. Importantly, initially, the information on which it was based, was coming from China. More recently it has been coming from Italy. The more information, the more accurate the advice should be.

The one and only reason the PM has changed the government's approach. Is because his advice has now changed.

As a socialist, you'll , no doubt, be familiar with the words of John Maynard Keynes -

"When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do, sir?"
Another one of the “science changed” believers. How it works is the government are given the facts by the experts (the same facts other governments were given), and then make decisions based on those facts. The governments of other countries have chosen to take strong action to reduce the number of deaths, and to not overload their health systems. Our government chose not to take such actions, knowing full well it will lead to more deaths. Between a quarter and half a million additional deaths depending on how swift they were about it. Now finally they’ve changed policy - but at what cost all the previous inaction?

This isn’t a party political issue, because had it been a Green or Labour government acting so belatedly I’d be complaining about them too.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:55 am

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:41 am
Another one of the “science changed” believers. How it works is the government are given the facts by the experts (the same facts other governments were given), and then make decisions based on those facts. The governments of other countries have chosen to take strong action to reduce the number of deaths, and to not overload their health systems. Our government chose not to take such actions, knowing full well it will lead to more deaths. Between a quarter and half a million additional deaths depending on how swift they were about it. Now finally they’ve changed policy - but at what cost all the previous inaction?

This isn’t a party political issue, because had it been a Green or Labour government acting so belatedly I’d be complaining about them too.
You're absolutely correct Andrew. It's not party political issue. Had it been a Green or Labour government they would still be following the advice, the very same advice, from the very same Chief medical officer , from whom , the Conservative government takes guidance from. Therefore your grievance lays not with the government itself, but with their advisers.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Taffy on the wing » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:12 am

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:15 pm
Think he’s doing an outstanding job in unprecedented times, personally. Very pleased he’s our PM.

Would prefer we took tougher action to isolate/protect the vulnerable and keep the rest of society going/building immunity to it all, but think that would be hard given the mounting scale of the crisis.

Keep it up, Boris.
Are you mad?.....i mean it.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Taffy on the wing » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:15 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:23 pm
Not a time for party politics but I have changed it for you.....

"Until a few days ago Johnson was , listening to his scientific advisers (who by the way would be the same experts whoever was in charge) and their analysis suggested that maybe 250k of us may die - as per the modelling. That’s why while other countries were putting strict measures in place, we were not. Only when his scientific advisers advised him otherwise did Johnson begin to take action and despite all this we are performing far better than all other European countries".

If you cannot see that those at the helm here are doing an amazing job under immense pressure, balancing the wants and needs of 67 million people against a back drop of saving lives not just from the virsu but from the long term economic disatser, then god help you.
Get your head checked mate!

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Taffy on the wing » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:18 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:55 am
You're absolutely correct Andrew. It's not party political issue. Had it been a Green or Labour government they would still be following the advice, the very same advice, from the very same Chief medical officer , from whom , the Conservative government takes guidance from. Therefore your grievance lays not with the government itself, but with their advisers.
You'll believe anything that Rupert Murdoch feeds you!.......Unbelievable, open your eyes and think for yourself.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Spiral » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:10 am

Can I just clarify my last post about agreeing with you-know-who. Firstly, there are people on here professing above-politics support of the govt's strategy who we all know wouldn't show any such latitude, leniency or lenity were the exact same strategy adopted and machinations played out under a Labour govt. We all know it, and we all know this charade of soberly rising above party-politics is patently b0llocks, so let's just drop all that, because we weren't all born yesterday. Let's stop insulting one another's intelligence.

However, the govt itself commissioned the most recent research by the Imperial College and acted on its advice immediately. I think this party in govt is useless and I think Johnson is a knob, but I don't think the govt is so useless as to itself commission a study with the potential to cast light on and undermine its own - entirely imaginary - nefarious plots of deliberate and strategic neglect. It's difficult to accuse the govt of acting politically. Given this is a fast moving situation affecting different countries with differing population densities, cultures and customs, hospital capacities, resources, and epidemiological timeframes, countries respond differently at different times, even in different regions within their own borders. There's no evidence that scientific advice has been ignored, or that a political calculation has been made, and to suggest otherwise is an accusation way graver than to suggest our modelling and datasets were initially incomplete, which seems to be a more logical explanation for the shift.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by HieronymousBoschHobs » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:09 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:38 pm
[quote=HieronymousBoschHobs post_id=<a href="tel:1234961">1234961</a> time=<a href="tel:1584567657">1584567657</a> user_id=1526]
Except, and I don't really want to go here, that's not the story everyone is telling. There are others saying the science did not change, but that the government and its advisors got it wrong:

'After weeks of inaction, the government announced a sudden U-turn on Monday, declaring that new modelling by scientists at Imperial College had convinced them to change their initial plans. Many journalists, led by the BBC, reported that “the science had changed” and so the government had responded accordingly. But this interpretation of events is wrong. The science has been the same since January. What changed is that government advisers at last understood what had really taken place in China'


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... vice-wrong

This article was written by the editor of the Lancet, which is, according to Wikipedia, 'is among the world's oldest, most prestigious, and best known general medical journals.'

They are doing the job they are there to do. On what basis, other than how they themselves describe their own performance, do you judge them to be doing an 'amazing job'?

Because there are plenty of people in the know who seem to think there has been room for improvement.

I mean, jesus, even one party state China had citizens critical of the government response, but I suppose for the same thing to take place here would somehow be beyond the pale?
Those Government advisers would likely be exactly the same regardless of who is at the helm.

Stop politicising this, it’s pathetic.
[/quote]

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:49 pm
Because I’m interacting with the person who interacted with me. Quite a simple concept really.

On a broader point, anybody that tries to politicise this should be ashamed.
All I am saying is that if someone is going to be attacked for criticising the Conservatives, then you should expect the same fired right back at you if you praise them.

If you don’t want the thread to become political then refrain from posting flattering accounts of Boris Johnson or the Conservative government’s response. Not everyone will agree, and some will not take too kindly to being, as they might have it, told what to think.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Damo » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:48 am

You momentum moonbats need to stop being so bitter.

It's the same 4 or 5 posters who want the country to burn, as long as they can blame it on the Tories.
Get a life

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by HieronymousBoschHobs » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:54 am


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Re: Boris Watch

Post by HieronymousBoschHobs » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:01 am

Also, when this ”moonbat” read ”Get a life”

:lol:
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by claretandy » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:23 am

AndrewJB wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:01 pm
Until a few days ago Johnson was willing to let half a million of us die - as per the modelling. That’s why while other countries were putting strict measures in place, we were not. Only when his insouciance became public did Johnson begin to take action. Now we could be well behind the curve.
Including his pregnant mrs ? really ? wow.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:38 am

claretandy wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:23 am
Including his pregnant mrs ? really ? wow.
Did I say "including his pregnant wife"? No? Then can we just stick with facts please?

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