Boris Watch

[tim_noone]

Well that was amicable.

[Cryssys]

Prime Minister Johnson is simply doing exactly, what Prime Minister, Corbyn/Starmer/Swinson would've had to do.

Which is, listening to the advice of the Chief Medical Officer and his team. That advice would have been the same, regardless of who had the keys to Number 10.

The modelling is based on a fast changing , and , very fluid situation. The variables will be changing by the hour. The more information, the more accurate the advice should be.

The one and only reason the PM has changed the government's approach. Is because his advice has now changed.[/b]

Goodbye

Whilst I don't doubt that the expert advice given to any government would be the same, it impossible to say they would have done the same thing.

Most of us have access to the same information as everybody else and it's apparent from the comments on here is that some people have different opinions on what should have been done. I'm sure that there are similar differences of opinion within the government.

Would a labour or Lib Dem government have reacted differently? Possibly, but the truth is we will never know.

[TVC15]

To believe that ego fuelled sewer rats the likes of Johnson, Cummings, Gove and Hancock aren’t making political decisions in the last few weeks when faced with options and choice over strategy is beyond ridiculous.
But then again the person believing this is the case is beyond ridiculous too.

[Devils_Advocate]

I have seen the full article beyond the snippet shared today and below is some paraphrasing of what else the article states on this issue. Remember this is a Tory supporting paper with strong contacts and access to Tory ministers, MPs and close aides so the article has a lot of credibility

So ministers had been on notice that drastic action could be needed since it first emerged in China in Dec

Chief Medical Office Chris Witty advised the cabinet in January that it could go two ways - either stay in China or spread everywhere

For two months the govt had time to prepare but Johnsons instincts were to resist a life changing crackdown. A senior Tory source recalled "There was a lot of talk about how this was just a bit of flu"

At this stage Dominic Cummings became convinced that Britain would be better able to resist a second wave of the disease next winter by adopting the herd immunity policy and this is what he then pursued as govt policy as per the part of the article already shared on social media

Yes when it became obvious the policy was wrong they changed their minds and Cummings then became one of the strongest advocates for social distancing and isolation.

Unfortunately a lot of damage may have already been done by Cummings getting fixated on a policy he landed on very early when evidence and data was minimal and only backing away from it when the disaster of it was staring everyone in the face.

Without Cummings its very likely that the govt would have been a lot more open to the ever changing evidence and advice and much more agile in responding with more fluid policy

The neglect of Johnson and his team to take on board Chris Witty's warnings back in Jan and take much earlier steps to prepare for the worst case scenarios should also not forgotten.

Lets hope along with the very strong economical measures Sunak has put in place the govt can now lead us well through the rest of the crisis and that we will minimise impact going forward.

When all this is done though there are some serious questions to ask and I hope those criticising the party politics points scoring in the crisis now dont suddenly become all tribal and obstructive when we need to come together and seek the truth

[RingoMcCartney]

Whilst I don't doubt that the expert advice given to any government would be the same, it impossible to say they would have done the same thing.

Most of us have access to the same information as everybody else and it's apparent from the comments on here is that some people have different opinions on what should have been done. I'm sure that there are similar differences of opinion within the government.

Would a labour or Lib Dem government have reacted differently? Possibly, but the truth is we will never know.

I agree, we will never know how a different government would have reacted. Because, hopefully.
another government , given a vaccine, wont have to find themselves in the situation that this government finds itself in.

However, you conceed that the medical advice, and the medical advisers would have been exactly the same.

Now given, it seems that the advisors themselves could not arrive at a consensus for some time, and it appears that the "Herd immunity " approach , initially, was thought to be the best approach. In, a changing by the hour, with more and more information being made available, with so many variables and other things to consider, situation. Surely, if the science and and those top medical advisers reading of it changes , which means the consensus changes, therefore the advice changes. Then the right thing to do is change their
approach and change what they're telling the nation.

John Maynard Keynes -

"When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do, sir?"

[RingoMcCartney]

Days That Changed Britain: "Heated" Debate Between Scientists Forced Boris Johnson To Act On Coronavirus


https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/10 ... s-approach


There was no consensus. Several of the scientists frantically argued that the UK must immediately introduce social distancing to halt the spread of the virus. Some pleaded with the government to change tack or face dire consequences.

But others continued to believe that introducing social distancing now would be unsustainable for a long period and would lead to a more disastrous second wave of infection.

The days-long debate between the experts themselves and with the government was “heated” and “extremely difficult”, multiple sources familiar with the discussions told BuzzFeed News. Vallance admitted as much at a health select committee hearing this week: “If you think SAGE is a cosy consensus of agreeing, you're very wrong indeed”.

The extent of the disagreement between the nation’s top scientists and the government can be revealed at the end of one of the most extraordinary weeks in modern British history.

[TVC15]

The Coringo Virus

Self isolate - tick
Use bold type - tick
Repeat the same point 7,000 times - tick
Pledge undying allegiance to The God of Boris - tick
Bring up Brexit - tick
Repeat all of the above 8 times a day - tick

Kill the thread - nearly there

[AndrewJB]

Quite an astounding comment from one of..if not the most partisan..Labour are the cure to all our problems and can do no wrong..Corbyn is a demi-god posters on the board. You may have some basis in accusing Ringo of what you have but i would say people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones comes to mind. Genuinely aghast and amused that you of all people have thrown that accusation at someone.

Partisan - moi?

I've actually been very critical of Labour over the years, especially when they were in government. I've certainly never said Labour are the cure to all of our problems, because I think the Green Party is.

What might have you thinking I'm partisan is that I don't subscribe to the preset assumptions and orthodoxy held by quite a few on here. When I saw lots of people pile in on Corbyn, often with the most ridiculous of attacks, or merely personal insults, I've defended him. I liked his policies, and I don't like the idea of a lynch mob mentality in politics, which doesn't allow for a discussion of actual issues. Ringo says that people aren't fed their political opinions by the press, yet it is undeniable that many people hold opinions that are in lock step with the editorial section of the Daily Mail, or Sun. It is often people like this who have described me as "deluded" when I've questioned them saying things like "Corbyn is far left". The attacks on him in the press were off the scale, and I saw that as being bad for democracy itself. I'm not re-hashing things, but explaining why I've taken the positions I have.

As for Johnson, I began disliking him when he was my mayor. How he thought a water cannon was an appropriate response to the social disorder in the capital in 2011, I'll never know. The list of his failures as mayor is long and I've gone over it before, and many of them alone should have been enough for him to be laughed out of office, however he's always had a free ride from the press. Again I've seen that reflected in the way some people post on here. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to slate Johnson ( I don't bang on about his family life, for example), but a lot of people seem willing to overlook some potentially serious things (such as Russian interference), when they've made much bigger deals about Corbyn bowing on Remembrance Day. That to me is real partisanship.

[AndrewJB]

I have seen the full article beyond the snippet shared today and below is some paraphrasing of what else the article states on this issue. Remember this is a Tory supporting paper with strong contacts and access to Tory ministers, MPs and close aides so the article has a lot of credibility

So ministers had been on notice that drastic action could be needed since it first emerged in China in Dec

Chief Medical Office Chris Witty advised the cabinet in January that it could go two ways - either stay in China or spread everywhere

For two months the govt had time to prepare but Johnsons instincts were to resist a life changing crackdown. A senior Tory source recalled "There was a lot of talk about how this was just a bit of flu"

At this stage Dominic Cummings became convinced that Britain would be better able to resist a second wave of the disease next winter by adopting the herd immunity policy and this is what he then pursued as govt policy as per the part of the article already shared on social media

Yes when it became obvious the policy was wrong they changed their minds and Cummings then became one of the strongest advocates for social distancing and isolation.

Unfortunately a lot of damage may have already been done by Cummings getting fixated on a policy he landed on very early when evidence and data was minimal and only backing away from it when the disaster of it was staring everyone in the face.

Without Cummings its very likely that the govt would have been a lot more open to the ever changing evidence and advice and much more agile in responding with more fluid policy

The neglect of Johnson and his team to take on board Chris Witty's warnings back in Jan and take much earlier steps to prepare for the worst case scenarios should also not forgotten.

Lets hope along with the very strong economical measures Sunak has put in place the govt can now lead us well through the rest of the crisis and that we will minimise impact going forward.

When all this is done though there are some serious questions to ask and I hope those criticising the party politics points scoring in the crisis now dont suddenly become all tribal and obstructive when we need to come together and seek the truth

This makes sense to me, because I can't imagine a medical professional advising the government to take the path of more deaths.

[Taffy on the wing]

Utter ********. You should be ashamed.

Why?.......just curious.

[AlargeClaret]

Ffs someone close this utter nonsensical personal political
garbage . How anyone can politicise Covid is almost ludicrous

[AndrewJB]

Ffs someone close this utter nonsensical personal political
garbage . How anyone can politicise Covid is almost ludicrous

This is a thread about Boris Johnson, not Covid-19.

[NewClaret]

Partisan - moi?

I've actually been very critical of Labour over the years, especially when they were in government. I've certainly never said Labour are the cure to all of our problems, because I think the Green Party is.

What might have you thinking I'm partisan is that I don't subscribe to the preset assumptions and orthodoxy held by quite a few on here. When I saw lots of people pile in on Corbyn, often with the most ridiculous of attacks, or merely personal insults, I've defended him. I liked his policies, and I don't like the idea of a lynch mob mentality in politics, which doesn't allow for a discussion of actual issues. Ringo says that people aren't fed their political opinions by the press, yet it is undeniable that many people hold opinions that are in lock step with the editorial section of the Daily Mail, or Sun. It is often people like this who have described me as "deluded" when I've questioned them saying things like "Corbyn is far left". The attacks on him in the press were off the scale, and I saw that as being bad for democracy itself. I'm not re-hashing things, but explaining why I've taken the positions I have.

As for Johnson, I began disliking him when he was my mayor. How he thought a water cannon was an appropriate response to the social disorder in the capital in 2011, I'll never know. The list of his failures as mayor is long and I've gone over it before, and many of them alone should have been enough for him to be laughed out of office, however he's always had a free ride from the press. Again I've seen that reflected in the way some people post on here. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to slate Johnson ( I don't bang on about his family life, for example), but a lot of people seem willing to overlook some potentially serious things (such as Russian interference), when they've made much bigger deals about Corbyn bowing on Remembrance Day. That to me is real partisanship.

Bit unfair to compare public reaction of Boris to Corbyn. His public opinion ratings are ridiculously low, so he’ll naturally get more stick than Boris.

Odd you should say that about him as London Mayor. I visit London regularly and they rave about the change he delivered for London (even the Labourites - who they are in the main).

Personally love a water cannon to disperse some disorder. Hopefully have them in Barley to enforce social distancing soon.

[CombatClaret]

Ffs someone close this utter nonsensical personal political
garbage . How anyone can politicise Covid is almost ludicrous

Ideology shapes actions.
It lead to China downplaying the initial outbreak until it was too late to contain.
It lead to our government not wanting to appear the nanny state which now might kill lots of our nannys.

[randomclaret2]

Reading that someone thinks the Green Party is the cure to all our problems at least provides a bit of much needed humour in these troubled times

[AndrewJB]

Bit unfair to compare public reaction of Boris to Corbyn. His public opinion ratings are ridiculously low, so he’ll naturally get more stick than Boris.

Odd you should say that about him as London Mayor. I visit London regularly and they rave about the change he delivered for London (even the Labourites - who they are in the main).

Personally love a water cannon to disperse some disorder. Hopefully have them in Barley to enforce social distancing soon.

I’m comparing the press treatment of both.

Not sure what part of London you visit, but the people I know think he’s an idiot. Many ethnic minority people I know actually hate him. This is reflected in the last election results in London too. He’s probably more popular up north. Some older relatives of mine were surprised when they learned I don’t like him, but not after I took them through his failures.

[RingoMcCartney]

The Coringo Virus

Self isolate - tick
Use bold type - tick
Repeat the same point 7,000 times - tick
Pledge undying allegiance to The God of Boris - tick
Bring up Brexit - tick
Repeat all of the above 8 times a day - tick

Kill the thread - nearly there

You missed one.

Remind TCORVC19 that nobody puts a gun to his head and forces him to read my, or anybody elses , post , - tick

Looks like you only had the one thing to do.

TCORVC19 to do list -

Make , approval craving, post. Playing to like minded audience and get the predictable "likes. " From those who've previously attempted to score political points from the dire , unprecedented situation and lost the arguement with Ringo - tick

Well done! Mission accomplished!


( PS Dont bother replying please. Should I then respond to your reply , you'll then accuse me "killing the thread" or something on those lines. So save your breath. Okey dokey? )

[ksrclaret]

TVC15 to do list -

Make , approval craving, post. Playing to like minded audience and get the predictable "likes. " From those who've previously attempted to score political points from the dire , unprecedented situation and lost the arguement with Ringo - tick

Well done! Mission accomplished!

Ringo, your horrifically, incorrect, use of commas, is increasingly, becoming, the most irritating thing about your posts, and that’s, saying something!

[AndrewJB]

Reading that someone thinks the Green Party is the cure to all our problems at least provides a bit of much needed humour in these troubled times

If you think the Covid-19 thing is a big problem, it's nothing compared to global warming. I should have put a smiley on the back of the sentence, because I was being lighthearted; however if we had a Green Party government, I think life would be WAY better for everyone in this country. Not curing all ills, but the Green Manifesto ticked a lot more boxes than the Tory one for me.

Feel free to debate this one.

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo, your horrifically, incorrect, use of commas, is increasingly, becoming, the most irritating thing about your posts, and that’s, saying something!

Given, you claimed I was "spewing bile racism towards foreigners" for simply suggesting that border controls could help in slowing down the spread of the virus and quarantining. Something that within a week of me saying it had been a policy adopted by pretty much every country in the EU and the EU itself.

Rather than put your ego on the back seat you felt this was more grown up.

Mystic McCartney rears his ugly head again. Like the coronavirus, an obligate parasite that isn't going anywhere yet sadly.

Just like the coronavirus though, please wash hands thoroughly if you think you might have come into contact.

This was after you'd said this to another poster.

Yes because you're the only poster capable of understanding anything and talking any sense. You're the only one who isn't thick.

For the benefit of everyone else on this board who can't understand even the most simple of things, I am of course being sarcastic here.

Anyway, take some time to reflect on the way you converse with people and we'll leave it there in order to avoid any further unpleasantness on this thread. Cheers.

And to think that as a teacher , parents put their trust in you. I've nothing more to say to you.

[ksrclaret]

Given, you claimed I was "spewing bile racism towards foreigners"

Fantastic!!! How long did it take you to dig all that up? Brilliant!!

Thanks for letting me live rent free!

Try not to get all angry now petal! Grrrrr!

[RingoMcCartney]

It's those kids and their parents that should be worried. Shudder to think.

[ksrclaret]

It's those kids and their parents that should be worried. Shudder to think.

Ohhhh! Wheeeyy!

Grrrrr!

[AndrewJB]

Days That Changed Britain: "Heated" Debate Between Scientists Forced Boris Johnson To Act On Coronavirus


https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/10 ... s-approach


There was no consensus. Several of the scientists frantically argued that the UK must immediately introduce social distancing to halt the spread of the virus. Some pleaded with the government to change tack or face dire consequences.

But others continued to believe that introducing social distancing now would be unsustainable for a long period and would lead to a more disastrous second wave of infection.

The days-long debate between the experts themselves and with the government was “heated” and “extremely difficult”, multiple sources familiar with the discussions told BuzzFeed News. Vallance admitted as much at a health select committee hearing this week: “If you think SAGE is a cosy consensus of agreeing, you're very wrong indeed”.

The extent of the disagreement between the nation’s top scientists and the government can be revealed at the end of one of the most extraordinary weeks in modern British history.

I meant to ask you this before, so it's nice you're back on. Did you actually read this link? It's saying the government faffed while scientists argued. That's not strong leadership when you need it. Johnson is apparently stuck between his ideology of free markets, and making people safe (what other countries have tried to do). While other countries got on with things, our "leader" hummed and haa'd, waffled and prevaricated, and now more people are going to die. Rather than a lockdown, he's admonishing people. That's taking a plastic fork to a gunfight. I'm sorry, because I know you adore him, but he's not a leader.

Just lock the country down.

[dsr]

I meant to ask you this before, so it's nice you're back on. Did you actually read this link? It's saying the government faffed while scientists argued. That's not strong leadership when you need it. Johnson is apparently stuck between his ideology of free markets, and making people safe (what other countries have tried to do). While other countries got on with things, our "leader" hummed and haa'd, waffled and prevaricated, and now more people are going to die. Rather than a lockdown, he's admonishing people. That's taking a plastic fork to a gunfight. I'm sorry, because I know you adore him, but he's not a leader.

Just lock the country down.

You're not a fan of long term plans then?

Would you even consider the economic effects on the NHS, even if you won't consider the economic effects on people in general? If, for example, the evidence suggested that we could save the lives of 100,000 old people now but it would cost the lives of 75,000 young people in the next 5 years because of shortage of funds - would that be worth considering, or would you follow the "save lives now regardless of cost" approach?

I don't like the "we don't know what to do so we'll do it anyway" approach. Often, if you don't know, you wait until you do know.

[RingoMcCartney]

I meant to ask you this before, so it's nice you're back on. Did you actually read this link? It's saying the government faffed while scientists argued. That's not strong leadership when you need it. Johnson is apparently stuck between his ideology of free markets, and making people safe (what other countries have tried to do). While other countries got on with things, our "leader" hummed and haa'd, waffled and prevaricated, and now more people are going to die. Rather than a lockdown, he's admonishing people. That's taking a plastic fork to a gunfight. I'm sorry, because I know you adore him, but he's not a leader.

Just lock the country down.

1. I dont adore him, or any politician.

2. You're saying he "faffed" . I'll see it as receiving varying advice from two differing opinions from his teams of medical advisers.

3. This is where I can kill 2 birds with one stone.
You claim that certain newspapers that are read by people disagree with your world view, are biased. Whilst believing the newspapers that you read are not.

This is a headline in the guardian- (yes ! I read the guardian as well as other newspapers)

"Only 36% of Britons trust Boris Johnson on coronavirus, poll finds"

But when you read into the report it admits this

"While the government is seen, overall, as having handled the crisis well – with 44% approving and 30% disapproving of its reaction"

In other words the majority of people back the government!

Since then the government's approval ratings have increased further.

An unfavourable headline from data that reveals the government's actual popularity. That's biased Andrew.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... poll-finds

My main point is, that no matter what you, or I say on this messageboard. The majority of people out there believe that the government's handling well. Given the unprecedented nature of this horrendous epidemic.

No doubt you'll come back, predictably, with the claim that the only reason they believe it. Is because they've been "radicalised " as you've previously put it, by the "Right wing press/media/Sky news/ daily mail/ Express /sun"

Dont bother eh? It saves us both the myther of going over the same ground ad infinitum .

[kritichris]

Having watched Nicola Sturgeon and then Boris giving instruction on the current situation I would vote her as next PM, he comes over as a bumbling buffoon whereas she talks sincerely and with clarity.

[RingoMcCartney]

Partisan - moi?

Ringo says that people aren't fed their political opinions by the press, yet it is undeniable that many people hold opinions that are in lock step with the editorial section of the Daily Mail, or Sun.

Does it ever, ever , occur to you that the newspapers/ media that you read/ listen to, are offering confirmatory bias to you!?

It doesn't does it!?

You believe that the "right wing " press feeds it readership biased lies that then forms their unthinking opinions.

Whereas the newspapers you read simply reflect what its , already free thinking and enlightened readership feels.

And you cannot see the contradiction. Sadly , I doubt you ever will Andrew.

[RingoMcCartney]

I’m comparing the press treatment of both.

Not sure what part of London you visit, but the people I know think he’s an idiot. Many ethnic minority people I know actually hate him. This is reflected in the last election results in London too. He’s probably more popular up north. Some older relatives of mine were surprised when they learned I don’t like him, but not after I took them through his failures.

Here you go again. Its metropolitan bubble dwelling at its finest!

Because you know "many ethnic minority people I know actually hate him look at the election results in London."

Combined with "He’s probably more popular up north."

When you look at the election results in the rest of the country. Where labour had its worst result for well over half a century. It's a reality check for you that proves he's not "probably " but actually is very popular in labours former heartlands!

There is a whole world outside your narrow , parochial, metropolitan London bubble out there. Just waiting to be discovered.

Please stop judging the rest of the country by what's happening in london. Otherwise you're going to be left bewildered at election results again and again and again.

[TVC15]

Poor old Ringo.
You just can’t see the irony of how close you are to Jeremy Corbyn.
Nobody agrees with you.
Nobody listens to you.
Nobody cares.
But for some reason you just keep on turning up and giving out those long tiresome monologue utterly pointless speeches whilst everyone mutters to themselves “why is he still here ?”

Ooooh JeRingo Coooorbyn.

[AndrewJB]

You're not a fan of long term plans then?

Would you even consider the economic effects on the NHS, even if you won't consider the economic effects on people in general? If, for example, the evidence suggested that we could save the lives of 100,000 old people now but it would cost the lives of 75,000 young people in the next 5 years because of shortage of funds - would that be worth considering, or would you follow the "save lives now regardless of cost" approach?

I don't like the "we don't know what to do so we'll do it anyway" approach. Often, if you don't know, you wait until you do know.

I see you've moved into the "monetary value of life is an important consideration" group. Measuring extraordinary times with the usual working of a market economy. In your scenario Sunak is going to borrow then entirety of what he needs from the bond market, and then afterwards he's going to have to pay it all off. Correct me if I'm wrong.

In my opinion a better option will be to suspend the free market, and shut down all non essential companies. Institute price controls, and have the government pay the living costs of all people (not their mortgage or rent, because that will be suspended) out of money they create. In other words the government takes control of the economy until we've broken the back of this thing and we can get back to normal.

[TVC15]

I see you've moved into the "monetary value of life is an important consideration" group. Measuring extraordinary times with the usual working of a market economy. In your scenario Sunak is going to borrow then entirety of what he needs from the bond market, and then afterwards he's going to have to pay it all off. Correct me if I'm wrong.

In my opinion a better option will be to suspend the free market, and shut down all non essential companies. Institute price controls, and have the government pay the living costs of all people (not their mortgage or rent, because that will be suspended) out of money they create. In other words the government takes control of the economy until we've broken the back of this thing and we can get back to normal.

Wow !
Suspend the free market ?
I think Stalin tried that once - didn’t end too well.

Seriously have you any idea whatsoever how you would begin to do that ? Why do you think nobody has gone down this route ?
Is your follow up suggestion to “switch off the internet” with that big button Bill Gates has in his shed ?

[AndrewJB]

Here you go again. Its metropolitan bubble dwelling at its finest!

Because you know "many ethnic minority people I know actually hate him look at the election results in London."

Combined with "He’s probably more popular up north."

When you look at the election results in the rest of the country. Where labour had its worst result for well over half a century. It's a reality check for you that proves he's not "probably " but actually is very popular in labours former heartlands!

There is a whole world outside your narrow , parochial, metropolitan London bubble out there. Just waiting to be discovered.

Please stop judging the rest of the country by what's happening in london. Otherwise you're going to be left bewildered at election results again and again and again.

As I've said, Londoners had him as mayor for eight years, so we kind of do have a lot more experience than people elsewhere. And that's why he's less popular here - because we've seen how utterly useless and crap he is. In a normal world, news of his unsuitability for high office would have travelled the length and breadth of the nation, but it did not. For some reason most newspapers chose not to inform people, and instead rang his praises. This is why I think he's more popular in the north. When it comes to Johnson, it's the people outside London who are the bubble dwellers.

In Burnley over the last few years I've had older relatives say to me things like: "he's really hard working" (not according to people who've worked with him), "he brought London the Olympics" (the Olympics were won - as in the plan was put together and submitted, and accepted by the Olympic Committee over a year before he became mayor), "he's done a lot of good things for London" (like what?), and other absurd statements. Whenever I've asked; "what makes you think this?" the answer is always it's the impression they've got (so from watching television or reading newspapers). If you don't believe me, look at what people who actually know him have said about him.

[RingoMcCartney]

As I've said, Londoners had him as mayor for eight years, so we kind of do have a lot more experience than people elsewhere. And that's why he's less popular here - because we've seen how utterly useless and crap he is. In a normal world, news of his unsuitability for high office would have travelled the length and breadth of the nation, but it did not. For some reason most newspapers chose not to inform people, and instead rang his praises. This is why I think he's more popular in the north. When it comes to Johnson, it's the people outside London who are the bubble dwellers.

In Burnley over the last few years I've had older relatives say to me things like: "he's really hard working" (not according to people who've worked with him), "he brought London the Olympics" (the Olympics were won - as in the plan was put together and submitted, and accepted by the Olympic Committee over a year before he became mayor), "he's done a lot of good things for London" (like what?), and other absurd statements. Whenever I've asked; "what makes you think this?" the answer is always it's the impression they've got (so from watching television or reading newspapers). If you don't believe me, look at what people who actually know him have said about him.

If you dont believe me just look at the December 2019 election result.

[AndrewJB]

Wow !
Suspend the free market ?
I think Stalin tried that once - didn’t end too well.

Seriously have you any idea whatsoever how you would begin to do that ? Why do you think nobody has gone down this route ?
Is your follow up suggestion to “switch off the internet” with that big button Bill Gates has in his shed ?

Yes - put a large chunk of it on pause until the crisis is over (so not forever). Shut down non-essential industry and services, introduce price controls, put a pause on rent, credit card, and mortgage payments, and pay out a living wage - one suitable for feeding people and warming houses. In this way the government could create the money, rather than borrow it, and it wouldn't lead to out of control inflation.

If you're going to lock a country down, then the government will have to take control of the economy. What would your alternative be?

[TVC15]

Yes - put a large chunk of it on pause until the crisis is over (so not forever). Shut down non-essential industry and services, introduce price controls, put a pause on rent, credit card, and mortgage payments, and pay out a living wage - one suitable for feeding people and warming houses. In this way the government could create the money, rather than borrow it, and it wouldn't lead to out of control inflation.

If you're going to lock a country down, then the government will have to take control of the economy. What would your alternative be?

As I said why do you think nobody has done what you have suggested - it’s impossible to implement. It was hard enough back in the 1940s - and the world has changed beyond recognition since then. I am sure you can work out yourself why it would be impossible to implement.

As for my alternative - it’s to go further than the government have gone so far. But my guess is in the next few days / weeks we are going to see a lot more measures to support companies and individuals with temporary measures / support. They need to move quicker than they are doing at the moment - for example the local authorities still don’t have the money that they are supposed to be sending to businesses for the rates grants - why would that be the case when it was introduced more than a week ago and you can get money transferred in seconds ?

[AlargeClaret]

I’m comparing the press treatment of both.

Not sure what part of London you visit, but the people I know think he’s an idiot. Many ethnic minority people I know actually hate him. This is reflected in the last election results in London too. He’s probably more popular up north. Some older relatives of mine were surprised when they learned I don’t like him, but not after I took them through his failures.

Considering Boris got re-elected as Mayor of London it talks its own story . Naturally the hard left /your friends etc won’t have time for him. ( fair enough) He was however very popular though in a “ Blustering Boris” way perhaps more to do with his passion and gusto rather than hardcore policy.

[aggi]

Considering Boris got re-elected as Mayor of London it talks its own story . Naturally the hard left /your friends etc won’t have time for him. ( fair enough) He was however very popular though in a “ Blustering Boris” way perhaps more to do with his passion and gusto rather than hardcore policy.

A large part of him getting re-elected was he was up against a fairly past it Ken Livingstone who was very polarising (and even then he won by a narrower margin than the previous election). If Labour had fielded a decent candidate he would have struggled. Very popular is certainly pushing it, he won by a very narrow margin in the second election.

[AndrewJB]

A large part of him getting re-elected was he was up against a fairly past it Ken Livingstone who was very polarising (and even then he won by a narrower margin than the previous election). If Labour had fielded a decent candidate he would have struggled. Very popular is certainly pushing it, he won by a very narrow margin in the second election.

In the first election quite a few people I know switched over to him (almost all switched back the second time). He ran a fairly positive campaign and promised to keep things basically as Livingstone had, but his promises soon unravelled. The second campaign was grubby - by this time a lot of people saw through him - so he concentrated on winning in outer London, and went full smear on Livingstone (the Evening Standard and Metro managed to get some people thinking Livingstone was a tax evader). I’m pretty sure one of the editors was rewarded with a plum arts job, and we all know about Arcuri now. Apart from the long list of broken promises, there were the spectacular failures. The Garden Bridge and £43 Million of public money (bear in mind this is after he’d promised it would not take a penny) there’s still no adequate explanation where that money went - it alone should have sunk him. Even his own campaign to be Tory leader claimed he’d reduced knife crime by 50%, when it had gone back up again while he was still mayor! There will be some in London who still like him, but not many. In Burnley, he hasn’t yet let you down with repeated short term lies, and he hasn’t spaffed loads of your tax money on stupid vanity projects, but the press can’t sustain him forever, so I think most people will come to see him for the boorish oaf he is.

[AndrewJB]

A large part of him getting re-elected was he was up against a fairly past it Ken Livingstone who was very polarising (and even then he won by a narrower margin than the previous election). If Labour had fielded a decent candidate he would have struggled. Very popular is certainly pushing it, he won by a very narrow margin in the second election.

Sorry - meant to answer the previous post.

[AndrewJB]

As I said why do you think nobody has done what you have suggested - it’s impossible to implement. It was hard enough back in the 1940s - and the world has changed beyond recognition since then. I am sure you can work out yourself why it would be impossible to implement.

As for my alternative - it’s to go further than the government have gone so far. But my guess is in the next few days / weeks we are going to see a lot more measures to support companies and individuals with temporary measures / support. They need to move quicker than they are doing at the moment - for example the local authorities still don’t have the money that they are supposed to be sending to businesses for the rates grants - why would that be the case when it was introduced more than a week ago and you can get money transferred in seconds ?

I think suspending rent and mortgage payments, will be necessary. A lot of people are one or two paycheques from destitution, so if you’re going to lock down and prevent people from earning, they should be protected against their commitments in this respect. If it works the same for everyone, then nobody loses out.

[CombatClaret]

It is any wonder the 'I'm alright Jack' party, who shunned experts and attacks the 'nanny state' now faces the problem that the public won't listen to expert advise meant for the good of society?

[TVC15]

I think suspending rent and mortgage payments, will be necessary. A lot of people are one or two paycheques from destitution, so if you’re going to lock down and prevent people from earning, they should be protected against their commitments in this respect. If it works the same for everyone, then nobody loses out.

They have suspended mortgage payments for 3 months - and pretty sure this will be extended if needed. They have also made some changes to renters but I don’t think they have gone far enough here which I’m guessing is them trying to find a balance in trying to protect private landlords - whilst a bit cumbersome and not sure how you could implement this the government could step in to the renters market and do some kind of means test and intervene with providing rent payments or subsidies to protect those who need it most.
Personally I would also be looking at measures to reward NHS staff and also emergency services like police. I believe teachers who are coming in to teach the kids of essential workers are being incentivised already with significant increases in hourly rates - that is fine (to a degree) but NHS staff for example are putting themselves at a far greater risk than any other part of society and deserve to be financially rewarded. I know that’s not why a lot of them do the job - but that does not mean that that they should not be rewarded for their sacrifices and the fact they are directly saving a lot of lives.

I would also be considering a temporary increase in income tax rates for people earning over say £40k / £50k to help fund some of the extraordinary measures being introduced - especially if we could see this money going to rewarding the NHS staff and emergency services who are out there putting their own lives at risk to help others. I for one would be happy for my tax to be increased during the crisis by at least 10%.

[RingoMcCartney]

Our Glorious Leader to address the nation 8.30

Make sure to tune in and cheer his every word wont you!

[ClaretAndJew]

Our Glorious Leader to address the nation 8.30

Make sure to tune in and cheer his every word wont you!

I'm only going to be cheering the vowels.

[jrgbfc]

Full lockdown coming?

[HieronymousBoschHobs]

Full praise to everyone who has been willing to put up with the abuse and present a more balanced view of what's going on in the country with this crisis.

Should not be about backslapping, I-told-you-so, or any other form of one-upmanship.

Doubting that the government has got this right is not a leftist position, just a rational one.

[RingoMcCartney]

Full praise to everyone who has been willing to put up with the abuse and present a more balanced view of what's going on in the country with this crisis.

Should not be about backslapping, I-told-you-so, or any other form of one-upmanship.

Doubting that the government has got this right is not a leftist position, just a rational one.

According to the latest opinion polls and personal ratings, it's a minority one.

[Colburn_Claret]

Full praise to everyone who has been willing to put up with the abuse and present a more balanced view of what's going on in the country with this crisis.

Should not be about backslapping, I-told-you-so, or any other form of one-upmanship.

Doubting that the government has got this right is not a leftist position, just a rational one.

If you think that then you don't understand this thread. This isn't a balanced view, it's a snipe at Boris view.
Whatever he does, whatever he says he's wrong. If he's right it's only because the Labour Party forced him into that position.

It's a very difficult situation, and there is very little right or wrong because we are walking uncharted territory. It's right to point out fault if there is one, but there is a tiny minority on here, led by Andrew, who don't want any reasoned debate, they just want to have a whinge, point the finger and come up with wild allegations.
The proof of the pudding is Boris's popularity in the polls, and I know many who didn't vote for him who think he has done a good job through this crisis. The better he does, the louder they'll moan. You are right it shouldn't be about backslapping, I-told-you-so, or any other form of one-upmanship, but it shouldn't be about perpetual bias either.

[Cryssys]

According to the latest opinion polls and personal ratings, it's a minority one.

No surprises there, It's early days and people always rally around flag at the start. The important thing is what happens over the next few weeks.

It's not how popular you are at the start it's how popular you are at the end. Remember, Churchill and the conservatives got absolutely hammered the in the election in 1945 despite having been widely praised for the way they lead the country during the war.