Boris Watch

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nil_desperandum
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:27 am

Bfcboyo wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:34 am
Boris is doing something right guys he has the majority of the country backing him.
Can you provide any evidence whatsoever for that statement?
A single opinion poll perhaps?
The only real measure we have is the Gen Election result, but he got nothing like a majority of the country backing him there, and a large percentage of the population either didn't turn out to vote or aren't permitted to vote.
(Additionally I think it could be argued that a significant number of those who voted Conservative did so despite significant reservations about Johnson).

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:28 am

Good news for Brexiteers, Johnson will have your blue passports ready for issue next month.

Not so good news is that they will be produced by a French/Dutch firm in a Polish factory and the UK firm that made the burgundy passports will have to cut 200 jobs

So much for this idea:https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboa ... =2&t=45178

Cryssys
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Cryssys » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:29 am

Bfcboyo wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:34 am
Boris is doing something right guys he has the majority of the country backing him.
No he doesn't. Less than 44% voted Tory, that's nowhere near the majority of the country.

Stop making stuff up.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by thatdberight » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:47 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:28 am
Good news for Brexiteers, Johnson will have your blue passports ready for issue next month.

Not so good news is that they will be produced by a French/Dutch firm in a Polish factory and the UK firm that made the burgundy passports will have to cut 200 jobs

So much for this idea:https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboa ... =2&t=45178
Independent <> Insular

Anyway, more interestingly than the usual playground stuff, apparently there are hybrid versions that have been issued over the last year.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-04-05/fir ... er-issued/

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:53 am

Cryssys wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:29 am
No he doesn't. Less than 44% voted Tory, that's nowhere near the majority of the country.

Stop making stuff up.
It is, if you break it down & dissect all parties, maybe that was meant but open to misinterpretation, & since he taken over BJ popularity as soared, grabbing the bull by the horns with brexit, people who didn't like him previously now do like him & respect him. What you've got to remember the predecessor stalled that much her retirement would have arrived before we left, if he hadn't stepped in.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Cryssys » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:54 am

Cryssys wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:44 pm
Are you so committed that you have lost all objectivity?
Burnley Ace wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:46 pm

1. It can’t be constructive dismissal if the job is by invitation and there’s no contract.
2. He declared it as a benefit in kind with a value of £15k arranged by David Ross
3. A decision by Downing Street not Johnson. There is no obligation to appear on the Today programme.
4. He didn’t run away it’s his choice who he gives interviews to
5. So you don’t want graduates from the 2 of the top 10 universities in the world because it doesn’t fit with your social justice program? They will impliment the policy that they were voted in to do.
6. One franchise, the difficulties with rail aren’t due to privatisation.
7. Connecting Ireland to Scotland is dumb? Probably, especially now we have left the EU we need to make it as difficult as possible for Ireland to export.
8. A no. 10 spokesman refused to comment on someone, where’s your link to Johnson being asked?
9. He’s not abandoned anyone. He hasn’t done a Corbyn and jumped on the bandwagon.
10. It’s not up to him to release the report as he has made clear on ever occasion he’s been asked.
Well that answers my question regarding your objectivity. You have none whatsoever. Similarly, your credibility rating is zero

Your response is pathetic and shows you for the fool you are. I suggest that in future you keep your mouth shut and let people think you're and idiot rather than opening it and proving it.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:57 am

thatdberight wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:47 am
Independent <> Insular

Anyway, more interestingly than the usual playground stuff, apparently there are hybrid versions that have been issued over the last year.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-04-05/fir ... er-issued/
Not sure that a year old news article about how some passports have the word European on them and how some don't is any more interesting than the news about the release of the new passports.

As for the playground stuff the article itself even has a remainer getting all upset over nothing

nil_desperandum
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:01 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:28 am
Good news for Brexiteers, Johnson will have your blue passports ready for issue next month.

Not so good news is that they will be produced by a French/Dutch firm in a Polish factory and the UK firm that made the burgundy passports will have to cut 200 jobs

So much for this idea:https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboa ... =2&t=45178
Hopefully some innovative British firm will design and produce Burgundy passport covers / holders with the EU logo on.Only symbolic, but they should sell well to all those who are saddened / upset / annoyed by their loss of EU citizenship and free movement across 28 countries.
It's a real business opportunity. I'll bet they're producing them in China or Poland already.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Spijed » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:02 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:53 am
It is, if you break it down & dissect all parties, maybe that was meant but open to misinterpretation, & since he taken over BJ popularity as soared, grabbing the bull by the horns with brexit, people who didn't like him previously now do like him & respect him. What you've got to remember the predecessor stalled that much her retirement would have arrived before we left, if he hadn't stepped in.
With regards to Brexit, remember one thing - everything he did as London Mayor was a failure!

So I wouldn't hold my hopes up too highly if I were you that he'll make Brexit a success.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Cryssys » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:08 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:53 am
since he taken over BJ popularity as soared, grabbing the bull by the horns with brexit, people who didn't like him previously now do like him & respect him.
Do you have evidence to support that statement or is it just your opinion?

I tried looking online and I can't find anything that supports what you're saying. Closest I can find is this but it doesn't agree with what you have said

Boris Johnson YouGov Ratings
34% POSITIVE OPINION
47% NEGATIVE OPINION
17% NEUTRAL OPINION

6282 interviews - YouGov Ratings data collected between February 2019 and February 2020

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ex ... is_Johnson

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:13 am

Cryssys wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:54 am
Well that answers my question regarding your objectivity. You have none whatsoever. Similarly, your credibility rating is zero

Your response is pathetic and shows you for the fool you are. I suggest that in future you keep your mouth shut and let people think you're and idiot rather than opening it and proving it.
Lol resorting to trite cliche. You are so sloppy with your use of English it’s quite pathetic for someone trying to pass themselves of as intellectual. You don’t seem to understand, amongst many things, the difference between Johnson, The Government and the Party, which is surprising given you can see the same with the Labour Party and Corbin.

Anyway, back down to your level, suck it up Cryssys you’ve got 5 more years of Tory rule :-)

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:13 am

Spijed wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:02 am
With regards to Brexit, remember one thing - everything he did as London Mayor was a failure!

So I wouldn't hold my hopes up too highly if I were you that he'll make Brexit a success.
The clever people prior to formulating judgements & opinions will be holding back with reservations & assessing things as their develop, regarding the mayor position some aren't really interested in London & what he did or didn't do there & view it as starting out on a clean slate, either mess it up or make a go of it from now on commencing.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:16 am

Cryssys wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:08 am
Do you have evidence to support that statement or is it just your opinion?

I tried looking online and I can't find anything that supports what you're saying. Closest I can find is this but it doesn't agree with what you have said

Boris Johnson YouGov Ratings
34% POSITIVE OPINION
47% NEGATIVE OPINION
17% NEUTRAL OPINION

6282 interviews - YouGov Ratings data collected between February 2019 and February 2020

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ex ... is_Johnson
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... s-grown-po
You are not looking hard enough! Do some proper research please.
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Spijed
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Spijed » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:20 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:13 am
The clever people prior to formulating judgements & opinions will be holding back with reservations & assessing things as their develop, regarding the mayor position some aren't really interested in London & what he did or didn't do there & view it as starting out on a clean slate, either mess it up or make a go of it from now on commencing.
But if his projects in London were a failure what makes you think he'll be a success going forward?

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:23 am

Spijed wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:20 am
But if his projects in London were a failure what makes you think he'll be a success going forward?
The public seem to be backing him, I'm hoping that's the key & the drive to success for him. Wait & see that's all anybody can do.

nil_desperandum
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:29 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:16 am
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... s-grown-po
You are not looking hard enough! Do some proper research please.
It's pretty desperate stuff digging out survey from Sept 2019 to try to support your current position, but in any case, this is what your own link says (para 2)
Currently 38% of Brits say they have a favourable view of the Prime Minister, compared to 54% with an unfavourable opinion of him, giving a net score of -16.

This however, as I said was back in September.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by taio » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:31 am

Spijed wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:20 am
But if his projects in London were a failure what makes you think he'll be a success going forward?
Seen this multiple times from you. A bit like a broken record. He failed to deliver on aspects as is always the case in politics especially some of his vanity projects. But that certainly doesn't mean he failed. After all, the people that count ie Londoners gave him two terms and at the end of his tenure a majority thought he'd been successful. His effectiveness should be judged based on his overall record not just cherry picking projects that failed. Projects fail in all aspects of politics, business and life.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:38 am

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:29 am
It's pretty desperate stuff digging out survey from Sept 2019 to try to support your current position, but in any case, this is what your own link says (para 2)

This however, as I said was back in September.
In the space of 5 months nothing as happened no seismic events have taken place to deviate away from the stats & current trend, it’s safe to say things are pretty much where there are (maybe slightly lower/higher if anything, unless you know something different & are keeping it concealed.

Spijed
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Spijed » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:40 am

taio wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:31 am
Seen this multiple times from you. A bit like a broken record. He failed to deliver on aspects as is always the case in politics especially some of his vanity projects. But that certainly doesn't mean he failed. After all, the people that count ie Londoners gave him two terms and at the end of his tenure a majority thought he'd been successful. His effectiveness should be judged based on his overall record not just cherry picking projects that failed. Projects fail in all aspects of politics, business and life.
Flip the argument round then. What did he do as London Mayor that WAS a success?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -he-claims

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by thatdberight » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:46 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:57 am
Not sure that a year old news article about how some passports have the word European on them and how some don't is any more interesting than the news about the release of the new passports.

As for the playground stuff the article itself even has a remainer getting all upset over nothing
more interesting "...than the usual playground stuff..."
<>
more interesting "...than the news about the blue passports..."

If I'd meant to say the latter, I'd have said it.

taio
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by taio » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:56 am

Spijed wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:40 am
Flip the argument round then. What did he do as London Mayor that WAS a success?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -he-claims
The murder rate fell significantly, if not by 50% – from 155 in 2008 to a low of 94 in 2014. It did then start to rise again under Johnson, reaching 109 by 2016

What is undeniable is that London was, in 2016, a far wealthier city overall than in 2008. 

Johnson said he “out-built Labour with more than 100,000 affordable homes”. This is largely true: he did build more homes classed as affordable than his Labour predecessor Ken Livingstone did over eight years, even if City Hall figures placed the final tally at 94,001.

In 2008 there were 204 road deaths in the capital, and 116 in 2016 – a fall of 43%. This was, however, better than the 29% reduction in road deaths across the UK over the same period.

That's just from that article.

nil_desperandum
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:09 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:38 am
In the space of 5 months nothing as happened no seismic events have taken place to deviate away from the stats & current trend, it’s safe to say things are pretty much where there are (maybe slightly lower/higher if anything, unless you know something different & are keeping it concealed.
I don't know anything more or less than you do, but what I do know is that in a desperate attempt to show that Boris has majority support, you dug out a YouGov survey that's 6 months old, that actually showed him to have 38% support.
The more recent - virtually current - survey (previously posted by Cryssys) reveals his support now to be 34%, so not only has he never had majority support, his popularity is actually falling, (that is using the only statistical measure /data that is available).
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:18 pm

thatdberight wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:46 am
more interesting "...than the usual playground stuff..."
<>
more interesting "...than the news about the blue passports..."

If I'd meant to say the latter, I'd have said it.
Were you referring to my first post that you quoted when you made reference to "usual playground stuff" or were you just using my post as a lead in to the topic?

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:24 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:09 pm
I don't know anything more or less than you do, but what I do know is that in a desperate attempt to show that Boris has majority support, you dug out a YouGov survey that's 6 months old, that actually showed him to have 38% support.
The more recent - virtually current - survey (previously posted by Cryssys) reveals his support now to be 34%, so not only has he never had majority support, his popularity is actually falling, (that is using the only statistical measure /data that is available).
The only poll that really matters is the one that saw Boris get a 80 seat parliamentary majority in December. Owt else is just noise.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by thatdberight » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:29 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:18 pm
Were you referring to my first post that you quoted when you made reference to "usual playground stuff" or were you just using my post as a lead in to the topic?
Your post was (in my view) playground stuff - which was not meant to be a particularly damning criticism.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:46 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:34 am
Boris is doing something right guys he has the majority of the country backing him.

Corbyn is a narcassistic dictator he should have exiled himself from view from any media and gone to live in a cave after his disgrace. He now talks about a different role. If Labour don't get themselves on the right path soon we can call it another 20 years in the wilderness.
He doesn’t have a majority of people backing him. And he’s acted more like a dictator than any PM in my lifetime. What we’re all the recent cabinet sackings if not to establish his total control? What have you read or seen to reach such a false conclusion?

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Cryssys » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:50 pm

It seems that Boris is not popular with David Dimbleby either. Here's what he has just said about him:

“’Nobody trusts Boris Johnson. Who could trust Boris Johnson? He lies everywhere to everyone. He lies to his family. He just makes it up, you know.

“Boris Johnson, above all politicians, does it his way. He doesn’t take any notice of what people say. He doesn’t care what people think. He just wants to be prime minister.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 52111.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... e-row.html

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by jrgbfc » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:53 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:46 pm
He doesn’t have a majority of people backing him. And he’s acted more like a dictator than any PM in my lifetime. What we’re all the recent cabinet sackings if not to establish his total control? What have you read or seen to reach such a false conclusion?
Not to mention him trying to ban certain news outlets from one of his briefings. For the crime of reporting the news.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:02 pm

thatdberight wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:29 pm
Your post was (in my view) playground stuff - which was not meant to be a particularly damning criticism.
Fair enough but this is where we differ.

My concerns lie with a rich elite govt propped up by even richer more powerful people who I believe have used their power and influence to lie, mislead and divide the country to take us out of the EU in an act which I think will benefit them whilst the rest of the country suffers and goes backwards.

I have seen a repetitive attitude on here from leavers blaming remainers for being negative and telling us if we all get behind the country and be positive we don't need the EU and can manage on our own. I even linked a thread where people are talking about supporting Brexit by buying British.

I therefore think the news story that the new blue passports, one of the silly things Brexiteers have made iconic, are going to be outsourced to Poland at the cost of British jobs isn't childish but is an important point to flag.

I think it is important to highlight how the Govt slowly unravel and renege on the promises and principles they sold to us as they push forward their own self serving agenda because in my opinion honesty, integrity and putting the well being of the whole country over their own self interests is essential to being in govt and leading a country

On the other hand using a story about a tiny firm implementing an expenses policy change suggested by its employees to further support the company's green ethos as a battle ground for the whittling away of our freedoms as much more playground stuff but hey thats where we differ.

Now on a football messageboard I have no interest in debating to this level and being this serious all the time so I will deliver my point and my message in a light hearted and punchy way and if people don't like that or people don't get the point I am making then that is something I readily accept in the interests of my own enjoyment and entertainment.

If people disagree with my views then thats fine but despite what people might think about my motives for the posts I make their is almost always a genuine point within them that is true to something I care about or believe to be true

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by taio » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:09 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:02 pm
Fair enough but this is where we differ.

My concerns lie with a rich elite govt propped up by even richer more powerful people who I believe have used their power and influence to lie, mislead and divide the country to take us out of the EU in an act which I think will benefit them whilst the rest of the country suffers and goes backwards.

I have seen a repetitive attitude on here from leavers blaming remainers for being negative and telling us if we all get behind the country and be positive we don't need the EU and can manage on our own. I even linked a thread where people are talking about supporting Brexit by buying British.

I therefore think the news story that the new blue passports, one of the silly things Brexiteers have made iconic, are going to be outsourced to Poland at the cost of British jobs isn't childish but is an important point to flag.

I think it is important to highlight how the Govt slowly unravel and renege on the promises and principles they sold to us as they push forward their own self serving agenda because in my opinion honesty, integrity and putting the well being of the whole country over their own self interests is essential to being in govt and leading a country

On the other hand using a story about a tiny firm implementing an expenses policy change suggested by its employees to further support the company's green ethos as a battle ground for the whittling away of our freedoms as much more playground stuff but hey thats where we differ.

Now on a football messageboard I have no interest in debating to this level and being this serious all the time so I will deliver my point and my message in a light hearted and punchy way and if people don't like that or people don't get the point I am making then that is something I readily accept in the interests of my own enjoyment and entertainment.

If people disagree with my views then thats fine but despite what people might think about my motives for the posts I make their is almost always a genuine point within them that is true to something I care about or believe to be true
Haven't followed the passport story. But is it not a case that they will be produced in Poland following a procurement exercise that had to be under EU procurement law that the UK still has a legal duty to follow?

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by thatdberight » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:10 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:02 pm
Fair enough but this is where we differ.

My concerns lie with a rich elite govt propped up by even richer more powerful people who I believe have used their power and influence to lie, mislead and divide the country to take us out of the EU in an act which I think will benefit them whilst the rest of the country suffers and goes backwards.

I have seen a repetitive attitude on here from leavers blaming remainers for being negative and telling us if we all get behind the country and be positive we don't need Europe and can manage on our own. I even linked a thread where people are talking about supporting Brexit by buying British.

I therefore think the news story that the new blue passports, one of the silly things Brexiteers have made iconic, are going to be outsourced to Poland at the cost of British jobs isn't childish but is an important point to flag.

I think it is important to highlight how the Govt slowly unravel and renege on the promises and principles they sold to us as they push forward their own self serving agenda because in my opinion honesty, integrity and putting the well being of the whole country over their own self interests is essential to being in govt and leading a country

On the other hand using a story about a tiny firm implementing an expenses policy change suggested by its employees to further support the company's green ethos as a battle ground for the whittling away of our freedoms as much more playground stuff but hey thats where we differ.

Now on a football messageboard I have no interest in debating to this level and being this serious all the time so I will deliver my point and my message in a light hearted and punchy way and if people don't like that or people don't get the point I am making then that is something I readily accept in the interests of my own enjoyment and entertainment.

If people disagree with my views then thats fine but despite what people might think about my motives for the posts I make their is almost always a genuine point within them that is true to something I care about
I understand your view, even though I disagree with it, but can only speak for myself. I never saw Brexit as pulling up the drawbridge on our links with either Europe or the rest of the world.

On this issue, I think it's flawed to link the blue passport and change of supplier. That could have happened with any colour of passport. In fact, it would have been more likely with EU procurement laws.

I hope I made my view on exactly how important the story of the "vegetarian" regeneration company was; not very. Passingly interesting as a microcosm - but not important.

I took your view on the passports, I think, in the same way you meant it.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:14 pm

taio wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:56 am
The murder rate fell significantly, if not by 50% – from 155 in 2008 to a low of 94 in 2014. It did then start to rise again under Johnson, reaching 109 by 2016

What is undeniable is that London was, in 2016, a far wealthier city overall than in 2008. 

Johnson said he “out-built Labour with more than 100,000 affordable homes”. This is largely true: he did build more homes classed as affordable than his Labour predecessor Ken Livingstone did over eight years, even if City Hall figures placed the final tally at 94,001.

In 2008 there were 204 road deaths in the capital, and 116 in 2016 – a fall of 43%. This was, however, better than the 29% reduction in road deaths across the UK over the same period.

That's just from that article.
Honestly, ask yourself what it might be that happened in London that led to “affordable homes” being built. Something Livingstone was instrumental in winning for the city. Also ask yourself, Do affordable homes planned and funded in Livingstones tenure and then completed in Johnson’s really count for Johnson? He did this a lot. Taking over and rebranding projects as his own, like the bike hire and lanes. Johnson was elected after two major newspaper campaigns (most of the local London papers) that backed him to the hilt, and ran an anti Livingstone campaign that somehow persuaded people that Livingstone was a tax dodger.

taio
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by taio » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:23 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:14 pm
Honestly, ask yourself what it might be that happened in London that led to “affordable homes” being built. Something Livingstone was instrumental in winning for the city. Also ask yourself, Do affordable homes planned and funded in Livingstones tenure and then completed in Johnson’s really count for Johnson? He did this a lot. Taking over and rebranding projects as his own, like the bike hire and lanes. Johnson was elected after two major newspaper campaigns (most of the local London papers) that backed him to the hilt, and ran an anti Livingstone campaign that somehow persuaded people that Livingstone was a tax dodger.
Not getting into the detail, don't have time. I was contesting the point he didn't do anything successful. Many Londoners thought he was successful. I'm bored of reading your posts about the media in any case.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:26 pm

thatdberight wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:10 pm
I understand your view, even though I disagree with it, but can only speak for myself. I never saw Brexit as pulling up the drawbridge on our links with either Europe or the rest of the world.

On this issue, I think it's flawed to link the blue passport and change of supplier. That could have happened with any colour of passport. In fact, it would have been more likely with EU procurement laws.

I hope I made my view on exactly how important the story of the "vegetarian" regeneration company was; not very. Passingly interesting as a microcosm - but not important.

I took your view on the passports, I think, in the same way you meant it.
Our differing views is no issue and I recognise that my view is just that. It was more the dismissing of my comments as childish playground stuff when really I think its more that we have different ways we like to present our views on here.

Just to clarify my issue is not that the passports have been outsourced as I understand there are rules and economics involved with these decisions and it could have happened without Brexit.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:36 pm

taio wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:09 pm
Haven't followed the passport story. But is it not a case that they will be produced in Poland following a procurement exercise that had to be under EU procurement law that the UK still has a legal duty to follow?
I am not sure about this but from what I can see when the decision was made last year to use Gemalto it was the preferred choice of the govt for economic reasons and not something they had be forced in to because of EU law

I think the firm has/had some presence in the UK and the govt expected the contract would result in them expanding their UK operations but looks liked its just another thing the govt got wrong.

As said at the start that is just my interpretation from a few articles and I've not seen anything conclusive enough for me to be 100% sure

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by taio » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:25 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:36 pm
I am not sure about this but from what I can see when the decision was made last year to use Gemalto it was the preferred choice of the govt for economic reasons and not something they had be forced in to because of EU law

I think the firm has/had some presence in the UK and the govt expected the contract would result in them expanding their UK operations but looks liked its just another thing the govt got wrong.

As said at the start that is just my interpretation from a few articles and I've not seen anything conclusive enough for me to be 100% sure
I'm fairly sure it will have been caught been EU procurement law.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:32 pm

taio wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:25 pm
I'm fairly sure it will have been caught been EU procurement law.
Possibly but the Govt announced it positively with their full backing and not as if they'd been dictated to by EU law so to me it seems it was entirely their decision and preferred choice

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by taio » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:39 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:32 pm
Possibly but the Govt announced it positively with their full backing and not as if they'd been dictated to by EU law so to me it seems it was entirely their decision and preferred choice
It would be a decsion in accordance with and dictated by EU procurement. Had they not followed it they would have lost any legal challenge that followed. I suspect they'll have used a most economically advantageous tender procedure.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by KateR » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:40 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:27 am
Can you provide any evidence whatsoever for that statement?
A single opinion poll perhaps?
The only real measure we have is the Gen Election result, but he got nothing like a majority of the country backing him there, and a large percentage of the population either didn't turn out to vote or aren't permitted to vote.
(Additionally I think it could be argued that a significant number of those who voted Conservative did so despite significant reservations about Johnson).
Objection M'Lord, argumentative

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:44 pm

taio wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:39 pm
It would be a decsion in accordance with and dictated by EU procurement. Had they not followed it they would have lost any legal challenge that followed. I suspect they'll have used a most economically advantageous tender procedure.
Yes but sounds like we are talking at cross purposes a little.

I am not disagreeing with legality of the process they have followed but in a climate where the govt have used any excuse they can to bash the EU in this case they didn't and instead seemed very happy with the EU regulations and the outcome it gave them

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by KateR » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:52 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:09 pm
I don't know anything more or less than you do, but what I do know is that in a desperate attempt to show that Boris has majority support, you dug out a YouGov survey that's 6 months old, that actually showed him to have 38% support.
The more recent - virtually current - survey (previously posted by Cryssys) reveals his support now to be 34%, so not only has he never had majority support, his popularity is actually falling, (that is using the only statistical measure /data that is available).
let's turn this round since you love your links, please provide the evidence that the country and I'll even give you London as a second choice for bonus points, who is the most popular Party Leader in the last year, last 6 months or of 2020, your arguments are childish and you only every twist things to suit your own agendas, let me rephrase what you attacked, he and his party were the most popular with the voting public

I live in London and I believe Boris was far better than the present and the previous incumbent and so do may other Londoners
Last edited by KateR on Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thatdberight
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by thatdberight » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:56 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:26 pm
Our differing views is no issue and I recognise that my view is just that. It was more the dismissing of my comments as childish playground stuff when really I think its more that we have different ways we like to present our views on here.

Just to clarify my issue is not that the passports have been outsourced as I understand there are rules and economics involved with these decisions and it could have happened without Brexit.
Point taken and I'm in no position to have a pop at anyone for presenting a view in a pithy and not-altogether-serious way.
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Bfcboyo » Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:44 pm

The majority of the vote was for Boris and Brexit being delivered you bitter little gnomes.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:02 pm

taio wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:23 pm
Not getting into the detail, don't have time. I was contesting the point he didn't do anything successful. Many Londoners thought he was successful. I'm bored of reading your posts about the media in any case.
You could try sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting; “there is no media bias”. Click your heels three times for added effect. Inconvenient facts just disappear.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by aggi » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:08 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:44 pm
The majority of the vote was for Boris and Brexit being delivered you bitter little gnomes.
You really struggle with what a majority is don't you?

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:11 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:44 pm
The majority of the vote was for Boris and Brexit being delivered you bitter little gnomes.
The majority of the vote was actually for other candidates who opposed Johnson’s Brexit plans, but don’t let facts cloud your judgement.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:14 pm

aggi wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:08 pm
You really struggle with what a majority is don't you?

I dont. Its 80 seats aggi.......
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Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:16 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:11 pm
The majority of the vote was actually for other candidates who opposed Johnson’s Brexit plans, but don’t let facts cloud your judgement.
The simple fact is , your party lost Andrew.














Yet again.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by Vino blanco » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:18 pm

Yeh, but don't forget Ringo, it's all the mass media's fault, bloody right wing press eh.

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Re: Boris Watch

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:26 pm

Vino blanco wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:18 pm
Yeh, but don't forget Ringo, it's all the mass media's fault, bloody right wing press eh.
Absolutely it is! And when posters have said they havent read , for years , or never read , one of the rags on the unacceptable list. Then they're accused of being easily lead gullible fools for watching Sky News!

I've repeatedly asked Andrew JB who knows what's best for the People of Burnley? The People of Burnley, or a metropolitan bubble dweller?

I've yet to get a straight forward, candid answer.

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