We must never lose our identity.

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cricketfieldclarets
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We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:14 pm

Last night I was back at white hart lane for the champions league game with Leipzig. Whenever I’m working away if there is a game on I will take it in. Sometimes can’t beat a neutral. Enjoy a good game with no pressure. Experience in the home end similar to away in December but with far better facilities. Amazing stadium. Incredible facilities. Brilliant players. And I Love to see ANY game at any level. And equally like to photograph it... And acknowledge I was part of the problem.

BUT what has happened at Spurs is mind blowing. And you cannot allow a club to lose its identity like they have.

I love the fact that football tourism is easy to do. Safe. Etc. And you have to embrace it to an extent. But at what costs?

There was one proper spurs fan next to me. And at half time.... he was ejected after those around complained at him for standing and singing. But that season ticket holder who was ejected is just a number to them now. Those around him are who they care about. Because they buy three shirts and take the brand home etc. That season ticket is easily resold.

There are positives with their new stadium. They’ve employed 3,000 locals and increased the footfall into local businesses. They’ve invested in the community. And they probably took more in beer receipts after last nights game than we do in a season. The bar and restaurants (yes restaurants) were open for an hour or two post match. Great idea.

Burnley need to keep moving with the times. BUT we need to also maintain our identity and make sure we still stand out from the crowd in our own way.

I now completely sympathise with the spurs fans I met in December who said it’s not the same. And can totally understand the anger with West Ham. We could move to a 40k stadium and fill it with the sort of fan that’s more impressed with a donut than the game. But Is that what we would want?

The last picture summed up the shift perfectly for me.
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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:16 pm

:oops:
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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Steve1956 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:24 pm

Anybody that has their phone out during the 90 minutes of a football game should be slung out of the ground.
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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:24 pm

"We could move to a 40k stadium and fill it."


I doubt that.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:25 pm

Image
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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:26 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:24 pm
"We could move to a 40k stadium and fill it."


I doubt that.
I was not speaking literally.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by FCBurnley » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:28 pm

The more tourist fans at the big 6 grounds the better it is for us as we saw and heard (not) at OT.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:28 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:25 pm
Image
:D

There’s a balance. Like I say. You have to embrace it. And I’ve travelled far and wide watching lots of other clubs. Equally love to see foreign fans come to Burnley.

But that to me last night just felt surreal. Real fans being thrown out. And the stadium full of people literally doing anything other than watch the game. I was actually blown away by it.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by jrgbfc » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:28 pm

Glad that you appreciate the irony of pointing out all the football tourists whilst being one yourself :D
Joking aside though I'd hate it for my club to become like that. Like West Ham leaving a great ground like Upton Park to move to a soulless, athletics stadium. Years and years of history and tradition just ripped away.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by DCWat » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:30 pm

Donuts and a selfie stick - hardcore.

To be fair, were the seats that you had in more of a ‘tourist section’? It’d perhaps be a very different experience in other parts of the ground.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by ksrclaret » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:43 pm

What I find truly bizarre, and this occurs with some of our own fans, is when people film the live action with their phones. Instead of watching the game going on in front of them, they are watching the game through their tiny mobile phone screen.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:48 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:28 pm
Glad that you appreciate the irony of pointing out all the football tourists whilst being one yourself :D
Joking aside though I'd hate it for my club to become like that. Like West Ham leaving a great ground like Upton Park to move to a soulless, athletics stadium. Years and years of history and tradition just ripped away.
Completely get the irony and acknowledge that I was part of the problem.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:50 pm

DCWat wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:30 pm
Donuts and a selfie stick - hardcore.

To be fair, were the seats that you had in more of a ‘tourist section’? It’d perhaps be a very different experience in other parts of the ground.
Right next to the kop end. Directly opposite where the away fans sit.

Unsure if it’s a tourist area as such. Got the tickets through a couple of spurs season ticket holders we met at our game in December. Spurs fans of fifty years.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by jrgbfc » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:52 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:48 pm
Completely get the irony and acknowledge that I was part of the problem.
How was the atmosphere generally? Watching on TV it generally seems to come across OK for their bigger games.
And tbf I imagine you were still there to as a football fan and interested in the game. Completely different to going along just to take selfies and eat donuts.
Last edited by jrgbfc on Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Dark Cloud » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:06 pm

I absolutely get where your OP is coming from. Many of us on here grew up in the 60's and 70's, 80's and 90's and some, even further back (CT ;) ), but what we are is "Burnley Fans" (for want of a better phrase), in precisely the same way there will be "fans" of every single other club in the country in greater or smaller numbers. What is changing however and what is difficult for people like us to understand and what is to some extent saddening and worrying, is that people are coming to the game nowadays (in every sense) who are just there for the game and the spectacle and the razzmatazz and the afternoon out and the "die hard" fan who wants his or her team to win and win at all costs and who brings real passion into the stadium and who will struggle for 4 days if the match goes against them, they are are actually being increasingly frowned upon and are being marginalised and are looked on with suspicion like they are rather odd and could even be dangerous! Yet ironically, without them, the atmosphere which newcomers find so attractive would actually disappear. I've said before on here that it's becoming far less partisan and far less "tribal" than it used to be, especially in the PL and of course I'm not advocating knocking seven bells out of people who support somebody else like happened in the 70's as that was plain stupid and the "camerardrie" which prevails these days among fans of most teams is actually really good, but if the vast majority of the people in the stadium simply aren't that fussed who wins anymore, then we will lose a huge part of what made footy so appealing in the first place.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by TVC15 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:10 pm

All the big teams have a big number of overseas fans now. It’s one of the reasons why they are so keen to have stadiums with a minimum 60k capacity. I was in a queue at Anfield for food a couple of seasons ago and I am pretty sure I was the only person from this country - there were Germans, french, Scandinavians, Japanese etc.
Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea etc are all similar.

Spurs have a 2 year waiting list for season tickets - which are averaging around £1800 a year. I’m guessing these big clubs will still have their core set of 30,000 or so traditional fans (more for Liverpool and United) and that the influx of big overseas stars in their teams has brought in an increasing number of “tourists” who have gradually become season ticket holders.
Plus the corporate side is now massive - United have almost as many corporates in every home game as Burnley get total attendance at the Turf...staggering !

It’s not great for the traditional fans but it’s something that’s become inevitable. We’ve overtaken the other big European leagues for tourists I’m sure.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:12 pm

My mate from Uni used to come on the turf with me in the 90's when he popped down to visit from Scotland.
Never saw 'owt wrong with it.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:15 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:52 pm
How was the atmosphere generally? Watching on TV it generally seems to come across OK for their bigger games.
And tbf I imagine you were still there to as a football fan and interested in the game. Completely different to going along just to take selfies and eat donuts.
Do you really think they only went on to take selfies and eat donuts?
You can do that anywhere, to do it at a footie match you have to at least like the sport.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by claret2018 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:20 pm

It’s part and parcel of the game. Sport at the highest level will attract tourists, I suppose the way we could avoid it is to be relegated into League 2, then no one would want to come.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by jrgbfc » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:22 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:15 pm
Do you really think they only went on to take selfies and eat donuts?
You can do that anywhere, to do it at a footie match you have to at least like the sport.
You'd be surprised what a lot of young people will do for a few likes on social media.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by bfcjg » Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:24 pm

The problem being as city clubs suck up to the tourist fans to the detriment of loyal supporters these fans will move on to the next bandwagon then what ?

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Blackburn_Claret » Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:35 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:14 pm
Last night I was back at white hart lane for the champions league game with Leipzig. Whenever I’m working away if there is a game on I will take it in. Sometimes can’t beat a neutral. Enjoy a good game with no pressure. Experience in the home end similar to away in December but with far better facilities. Amazing stadium. Incredible facilities. Brilliant players. And I Love to see ANY game at any level. And equally like to photograph it... And acknowledge I was part of the problem.

BUT what has happened at Spurs is mind blowing. And you cannot allow a club to lose its identity like they have.

I love the fact that football tourism is easy to do. Safe. Etc. And you have to embrace it to an extent. But at what costs?

There was one proper spurs fan next to me. And at half time.... he was ejected after those around complained at him for standing and singing. But that season ticket holder who was ejected is just a number to them now. Those around him are who they care about. Because they buy three shirts and take the brand home etc. That season ticket is easily resold.

There are positives with their new stadium. They’ve employed 3,000 locals and increased the footfall into local businesses. They’ve invested in the community. And they probably took more in beer receipts after last nights game than we do in a season. The bar and restaurants (yes restaurants) were open for an hour or two post match. Great idea.

Burnley need to keep moving with the times. BUT we need to also maintain our identity and make sure we still stand out from the crowd in our own way.

I now completely sympathise with the spurs fans I met in December who said it’s not the same. And can totally understand the anger with West Ham. We could move to a 40k stadium and fill it with the sort of fan that’s more impressed with a donut than the game. But Is that what we would want?

The last picture summed up the shift perfectly for me.
Are you not doing the exact same?

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by KateR » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:03 pm

I never really thought about it before in terms of "sports tourism", however looking at the pictures the mass of people looked like SE Asia/China. Do tourist companies buy in large blocks to sell, some teams/some games such as CL matches? Seems to many in a single picture to me to be a lot of individual or even groups of 4 who don't know each other?

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Tribesmen » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:09 pm

Yer it's a strange one i must say now i could fall into this gap as a tourist fan you could say .
What i really think is it's just today's fan who has to feed their instergram ( what ever the feck it's called ) account as it's not been there but the fact you can tell everyone that you were is the by far most important thing in life .

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by IanMcL » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:22 pm

That ejected fan should have sat in his seat!
If he had been surrounded by sitting Spurs fans....same outcome.
No sympathy.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Blackrod » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:47 pm

Tribesmen wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:09 pm
Yer it's a strange one i must say now i could fall into this gap as a tourist fan you could say .
What i really think is it's just today's fan who has to feed their instergram ( what ever the feck it's called ) account as it's not been there but the fact you can tell everyone that you were is the by far most important thing in life .
Think this probably sums a lot of it up. It’s on Facebook / Instagram in moments then they can spend the rest of the game checking how many likes they had. Then they can convince themselves they really did have a good time ( even though they probably hated the match/ didn’t see much of it). What happened with just enjoying the experience for yourself.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:57 pm

The Chinese and Japanese etc have always been mad for taking cameras everywhere and taking photos, even before camera phones.

We do get them on t'Turf (Polish, Romanian etc) but I don't know if you can call them tourists when they live and work here.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Wile E Coyote » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:21 pm

depends on what you mean by identity, blaring rock music, betting adverts, beer ads, hot dogs and coca cola . flashing boards all around the pitch . made to sit down, stewards everywhere, family stands, I would say that is all far removed from the club I once knew and loved. The club has to move with the times, but the things that the club has to embrace has already made it lose something special in my opinion.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Dyched » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:51 pm

I honestly don’t see the problem.

Football is the biggest and most watched sport in the world. English football is them the most watched league in the world. Chinese, Japanese or ever bloody ever will want to go and watch games whilst they visit. What is the problem with that? They want to experience that like people want to go up the Empire State Building, or visit the Great Wall of china or the Berlin wall.

Fans need to get over themselves and stop pretending it their football club and only their. Half and half scarves? Who cares, that’s a something someone can keep to remember a special moment by.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by welsbyswife » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:52 pm

Blackburn_Claret wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:35 pm
Are you not doing the exact same?
Of course he is. But it's not him, it's them. Don't you understand? ;) I think he's going to drive through the Cotswolds on holiday wherein he'll send us a post to identify how traffic is ruining the quaint feeling of the place.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by ewanrob » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:58 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:43 pm
What I find truly bizarre, and this occurs with some of our own fans, is when people film the live action with their phones. Instead of watching the game going on in front of them, they are watching the game through their tiny mobile phone screen.
So because it doesn't sit easy with you then it's wrong on so many levels. Here's one for you, a lot of people who attend games may have Special Needs of some kind...like my son. He does it, no rhyme or reason behind it, but it makes him happy.

Just saying

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by tim_noone » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:00 am

Blackburn_Claret wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:35 pm
Are you not doing the exact same?
Of course he did.....to Highlight how some of the Bigger clubs are Losing their identity and For Burnley to try and hang on to theirs..

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by duncandisorderly » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:28 am

I'm photographing these people who are photographing the game to tell you that photographing the game shouldn't be done, so me photographing these photographers photographing the game is in no way ironic because I have photographed these photographers photographing the game which I am not photographing I am merely photographing the photographers so that future photographers don't need to photograph the game which these photographers have already photographed thereby my photograph of said photographers has become entirely redundant so why did I bother?

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:51 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:52 pm
How was the atmosphere generally? Watching on TV it generally seems to come across OK for their bigger games.
And tbf I imagine you were still there to as a football fan and interested in the game. Completely different to going along just to take selfies and eat donuts.
Exactly. I did try and get involved. Obviously not a spurs fan. But being next to one and having gone with a couple to the game I wanted them to win and felt compelled to at least get behind them.

Atmosphere was weird. Where I was literally one bloke sang. And he got thrown out for that and standing. The kop end when they sang made a lot of noise. And could make a big difference. But they were frustrated. And directed a lot at the officials.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:53 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:06 pm
I absolutely get where your OP is coming from. Many of us on here grew up in the 60's and 70's, 80's and 90's and some, even further back (CT ;) ), but what we are is "Burnley Fans" (for want of a better phrase), in precisely the same way there will be "fans" of every single other club in the country in greater or smaller numbers. What is changing however and what is difficult for people like us to understand and what is to some extent saddening and worrying, is that people are coming to the game nowadays (in every sense) who are just there for the game and the spectacle and the razzmatazz and the afternoon out and the "die hard" fan who wants his or her team to win and win at all costs and who brings real passion into the stadium and who will struggle for 4 days if the match goes against them, they are are actually being increasingly frowned upon and are being marginalised and are looked on with suspicion like they are rather odd and could even be dangerous! Yet ironically, without them, the atmosphere which newcomers find so attractive would actually disappear. I've said before on here that it's becoming far less partisan and far less "tribal" than it used to be, especially in the PL and of course I'm not advocating knocking seven bells out of people who support somebody else like happened in the 70's as that was plain stupid and the "camerardrie" which prevails these days among fans of most teams is actually really good, but if the vast majority of the people in the stadium simply aren't that fussed who wins anymore, then we will lose a huge part of what made footy so appealing in the first place.
Couldn’t agree more. And that links in to what I was aging about the guy who was ejected. They looked at him like he was insane. Mocked him for chanting. And complained about him so much that he got thrown out.

A lot are there for the theatre of the premier league. Not the atmosphere.

I think the tourists enjoyed the champions league tune more than the atmosphere.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:55 pm

Blackburn_Claret wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:35 pm
Are you not doing the exact same?
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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:58 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:28 am
I'm photographing these people who are photographing the game to tell you that photographing the game shouldn't be done, so me photographing these photographers photographing the game is in no way ironic because I have photographed these photographers photographing the game which I am not photographing I am merely photographing the photographers so that future photographers don't need to photograph the game which these photographers have already photographed thereby my photograph of said photographers has become entirely redundant so why did I bother?
That posts a bit disorderly, Duncan

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Sausage » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:28 pm

Cricketfield, I went to Spurs a couple of weeks ago when they played Southampton in the FA Cup replay. It's difficult to disagree with what you say. The stadium alone is on another level altogether, with a club shop literally the size of a John Lewis department store. We got tickets in the middle-tier Premium seats near the Saints fans (£78 - normally £320 for a league game) and it was like walking in a Park Lane hotel. Free hot food pre-match, free beer at half time (I got through three pints in 14 minutes) and the ability to stay behind for a beer afterwards while the crowds die down. At one point I was stood at a bar with ex-players Colin Calderwood and Paul Allen, wondering how the hell any club, let alone Burnley, could ever compete with this level of hospitality and income-generation.

Unfortunately, I think this is the model for any club aspiring to be at the top end of the Premier League and have regular forays into the Champions League. You either go all-out corporate and accept that football tourism brings in the money or you try to stay down-to-earth and accept your position with the also-rans. I suppose the third way is the West Ham way, where you adopt a risk-it-all strategy and abandon your down to earth image, sell your history to the highest bidder and rent a third-rate stadium in another part of town. Their fans are going to love that when they're in the Championship next season.

(And I also appreciate the irony of commenting on football tourism by recounting my experience as a football tourist)

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Blackburn_Claret » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:26 pm

tim_noone wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:00 am
Of course he did.....to Highlight how some of the Bigger clubs are Losing their identity and For Burnley to try and hang on to theirs..
They might be doing the same?

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by tim_noone » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:44 pm

Blackburn_Claret wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:26 pm
They might be doing the same?
Of course.. that's why they went in organised Little Groups in the main to spot The biggest Donut on show.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:54 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:28 am
I'm photographing these people who are photographing the game to tell you that photographing the game shouldn't be done, so me photographing these photographers photographing the game is in no way ironic because I have photographed these photographers photographing the game which I am not photographing I am merely photographing the photographers so that future photographers don't need to photograph the game which these photographers have already photographed thereby my photograph of said photographers has become entirely redundant so why did I bother?
I like it. And, if you look very carefully, you can watch the game on the cameras of the photographers that you have been photographing while they are photographing and not watching the game.... though they might - though see Brits thread - watch it back again later, or maybe not.

Things is fellow Clarets, Spurs play in London and, it may surprise some - or maybe not - but a lot of these people you may have made the assumption are tourists are more likely people who have lived and worked in London for many years. It's one of the things that makes London great.

I've been to baseball games on a few occasions when I've been visiting USA. 12 months back, I saw my first Ice Hockey game in Denver.

Never fear, we don't lose our identities by adding a few new things to our experiences.

UTC

EDIT - PS: taking photos of a box of 2 donuts, no, I just don't get it. ;)

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by tim_noone » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:27 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:54 pm
I like it. And, if you look very carefully, you can watch the game on the cameras of the photographers that you have been photographing while they are photographing and not watching the game.... though they might - though see Brits thread - watch it back again later, or maybe not.

Things is fellow Clarets, Spurs play in London and, it may surprise some - or maybe not - but a lot of these people you may have made the assumption are tourists are more likely people who have lived and worked in London for many years. It's one of the things that makes London great.

I've been to baseball games on a few occasions when I've been visiting USA. 12 months back, I saw my first Ice Hockey game in Denver.

Never fear, we don't lose our identities by adding a few new things to our experiences.

UTC

EDIT - PS: taking photos of a box of 2 donuts, no, I just don't get it. ;)
Because they're an upgrade on twix. I love a Donut :D

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Blackburn_Claret » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:30 pm

tim_noone wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:44 pm
Of course.. that's why they went in organised Little Groups in the main to spot The biggest Donut on show.
What about the guy in the third picture of the OP?

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Bosscat » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:38 pm

tim_noone wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:27 pm
Because they're an upgrade on twix. I love a Donut :D
Nationwide in the 70's....


"On the notorious evening, Fanny Craddock was doing a cooking demonstration. Everything was live so she sets about a demonstration of making doughnuts. She gives out all the details of the ingredients and takes the doughnuts out of the oven. The camera goes back to Michael Barratt, who has to link the cooking demonstraion to the next item. He says (bear in mind that he is in the same studio as Mrs Craddock), "Mmmmmm. These smell delicious. If you try that recipe at home, I hope your doughnuts turn out like Fanny's".

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by tim_noone » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:44 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:38 pm
Nationwide in the 70's....


"On the notorious evening, Fanny Craddock was doing a cooking demonstration. Everything was live so she sets about a demonstration of making doughnuts. She gives out all the details of the ingredients and takes the doughnuts out of the oven. The camera goes back to Michael Barratt, who has to link the cooking demonstraion to the next item. He says (bear in mind that he is in the same studio as Mrs Craddock), "Mmmmmm. These smell delicious. If you try that recipe at home, I hope your doughnuts turn out like Fanny's".
Was there anything on Johnny's chocolate Log?

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:52 pm

Sausage wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:28 pm
Cricketfield, I went to Spurs a couple of weeks ago when they played Southampton in the FA Cup replay. It's difficult to disagree with what you say. The stadium alone is on another level altogether, with a club shop literally the size of a John Lewis department store. We got tickets in the middle-tier Premium seats near the Saints fans (£78 - normally £320 for a league game) and it was like walking in a Park Lane hotel. Free hot food pre-match, free beer at half time (I got through three pints in 14 minutes) and the ability to stay behind for a beer afterwards while the crowds die down. At one point I was stood at a bar with ex-players Colin Calderwood and Paul Allen, wondering how the hell any club, let alone Burnley, could ever compete with this level of hospitality and income-generation.

Unfortunately, I think this is the model for any club aspiring to be at the top end of the Premier League and have regular forays into the Champions League. You either go all-out corporate and accept that football tourism brings in the money or you try to stay down-to-earth and accept your position with the also-rans. I suppose the third way is the West Ham way, where you adopt a risk-it-all strategy and abandon your down to earth image, sell your history to the highest bidder and rent a third-rate stadium in another part of town. Their fans are going to love that when they're in the Championship next season.

(And I also appreciate the irony of commenting on football tourism by recounting my experience as a football tourist)
Absolutely. It was mind blowing how much they must’ve raked in from post match bar sales alone.

That aspect i did like. And possibly something we have to look at.

It’s incredible as a venue. When you look at relatively new stadiums like Madejski, KC, King Power and evening The Emirates and London stadium it makes them look ancient.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:53 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:54 pm
I like it. And, if you look very carefully, you can watch the game on the cameras of the photographers that you have been photographing while they are photographing and not watching the game.... though they might - though see Brits thread - watch it back again later, or maybe not.

Things is fellow Clarets, Spurs play in London and, it may surprise some - or maybe not - but a lot of these people you may have made the assumption are tourists are more likely people who have lived and worked in London for many years. It's one of the things that makes London great.

I've been to baseball games on a few occasions when I've been visiting USA. 12 months back, I saw my first Ice Hockey game in Denver.

Never fear, we don't lose our identities by adding a few new things to our experiences.

UTC

EDIT - PS: taking photos of a box of 2 donuts, no, I just don't get it. ;)
I don’t disagree. London’s my favourite city on earth. The French behind me definitely didn’t live in London. Can’t comment on the Koreans as I didn’t speak with any of them.

Again. I think you have to encourage it. Even at Burnley. But at what cost.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:27 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:53 pm
I don’t disagree. London’s my favourite city on earth. The French behind me definitely didn’t live in London. Can’t comment on the Koreans as I didn’t speak with any of them.

Again. I think you have to encourage it. Even at Burnley. But at what cost.
Koreans, New Malden, south west London. Lots of Korean barbecue restaurants around New Malden.

And, London is France's 5th largest city, somewhere around 250,000 French nationals live in London. (w/out checking on google...). But, I'm sure some will have travelled across for the evening, maybe booked on the late Eurostar to get home again.

At a guess, the new WHL was built by Polish plus some other east European builders.

But, the Chinese could have built it faster and cheaper. ;)

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by Dyched » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:26 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:53 pm
I don’t disagree. London’s my favourite city on earth. The French behind me definitely didn’t live in London. Can’t comment on the Koreans as I didn’t speak with any of them.

Again. I think you have to encourage it. Even at Burnley. But at what cost.


You look at it from your lifetimes aspect of what an english football game is/was. As those older than you do also. But say back in the 70s/60s when some poster on here would have been boys the older generations of that time would have been thinking the same about their experiences of modern football in the 70s/60s.

It’s the same with most thinks. There’s post about pubs now and again shutting etc. Again that’s something what people have done within their lifetime. Before that people would have done something different. In 50 years people will do something different.

Times change, embrace I say. Going to football and being surrounded by people from all over the world to see the team you dreamt about growing up is pretty cool tbh.

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Re: We must never lose our identity.

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:54 pm

Dyched wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:26 pm
You look at it from your lifetimes aspect of what an english football game is/was. As those older than you do also. But say back in the 70s/60s when some poster on here would have been boys the older generations of that time would have been thinking the same about their experiences of modern football in the 70s/60s.

It’s the same with most thinks. There’s post about pubs now and again shutting etc. Again that’s something what people have done within their lifetime. Before that people would have done something different. In 50 years people will do something different.

Times change, embrace I say. Going to football and being surrounded by people from all over the world to see the team you dreamt about growing up is pretty cool tbh.
It is. I agree. And I do it myself. It’s not where they are from that bothers me. If the turf was packed with 10,000 foreigners it wouldn’t bother me at all. We have it on a much smaller scale with Helmond, Italians, Germans, Eastern European’s etc.

It’s more how the entire game was spent not getting involved at all and complaint at those who did.

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