Nick Pope For England

[Tricky Trevor]

Good read, lots of stats. There is only 1 number 1.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... e-him-no-1

[martin_p]

That pretty much sums it up. If you want a goalkeeper to stop the ball going in the net then Pope’s your man. If your main thrust is building attacks from the back then Pickford’s your man, but you’ll likely concede more goals. The only thing I think the article misses is the protection that Pope gets from out centre back pairing which undoubtedly contributes to the number of clean sheets he has. They may not be the best in the country individually but there’s not many better pairings in the position in the country.

[JohnMac]

Not getting much support or recognition outside of Burnley by the emedia and pundits.

Concensus is Pickford then the Sheff Utd or Bournemouth lad.

Mind you Trevor Sinclair said this morning Norwich aren't Premier League and later said Spurs are playing a Championship club tonight.

Clued up are these pundits

[Quickenthetempo]

I'm one of Popes biggest fans and would love to see him play for England.

But when the abuse comes in like Pickford gets, it could destroy him.

[Gordaleman]

This SKY article makes Pope No.1.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... e-him-no-1

I think the only thing that is keeping him out is his distribution. It's generally poor and his kicking is awful. How often does he kick the ball straight out of play or straight to his opposite number? He wastes time, even when we're losing and that's unforgivable. How long does he take over a simple goal kick? Sort his distribution out and he's a certainty for England, but until then, I can't see it.

[martin_p]

Not getting much support or recognition outside of Burnley by the emedia and pundits.

Concensus is Pickford then the Sheff Utd or Bournemouth lad.

And that’s when you start to think the anti-Burnley bias is real as the stats show Henderson kicks long more often than Pope. So if it’s not being able to play out from the back that rules out Pope then it certainly rules out Henderson.

[Targetman]

This SKY article makes Pope No.1.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... e-him-no-1

I think the only thing that is keeping him out is his distribution. It's generally poor and his kicking is awful. How often does he kick the ball straight out of play or straight to his opposite number? He wastes time, even when we're losing and that's unforgivable. How long does he take over a simple goal kick? Sort his distribution out and he's a certainty for England, but until then, I can't see it.

Pope wastes time even when we are losing?? If he did that then I think Mr. Dyche would have something to say!

[tarkys_ears]

Pickford will be number 1, no matter what any article says.

[Fretters]

That pretty much sums it up. If you want a goalkeeper to stop the ball going in the net then Pope’s your man. If your main thrust is building attacks from the back then Pickford’s your man, but you’ll likely concede more goals. The only thing I think the article misses is the protection that Pope gets from out centre back pairing which undoubtedly contributes to the number of clean sheets he has. They may not be the best in the country individually but there’s not many better pairings in the position in the country.

Surely it wouldn't be a bad idea to just try Pope, Tarky, Mee and Taylor together in an England friendly. They know each other's game inside out.

[Tricky Trevor]

Surely it wouldn't be a bad idea to just try Pope, Tarky, Mee and Taylor together in an England friendly. They know each other's game inside out.

The problem with this argument is the goals we concede to City, L’pool, Chelsea,etc., on a regular basis. Against international opposition they'd be mullered.

[bobinho]

Sir Alf understood that you don’t necessarily play the ‘best’ players, you weigh up who does what, when, why and how then build a team.

Team.

[Chester Perry]

I posted at the time of his injury that if he wanted to England No 1 he had a great opportunity to work on his footballing skills during his recovery - it doesn't appear to have taken that opportunity - which is a shame because everything else about him is very good, You do cringe at his goal kicks/long passes up the line that go out of play too often - but then again that is why he is with us rather than a big 6 club

as for Pickford - any one see his wedding pictures yesterday?

[Top Claret]

Popes kicking has improved big time since his injury to say he hasn't is rubbish. You obviously haven't been watching him or Burnley this season

[Chester Perry]

Popes kicking has improved big time since his injury to say he hasn't is rubbish. You obviously haven't been watching him or Burnley this season

I have watched every game and I am referring to balls up the line - particularly our left

[Gordaleman]

Pope wastes time even when we are losing?? If he did that then I think Mr. Dyche would have something to say!

I take it you don't go to matches? If you did, you'd know.

[Targetman]

I take it you don't go to matches? If you did, you'd know.

Ive spoken to several Burnley fans at work today since your post and not one of them has noticed that Nick Pope wastes time when we are losing games.

Perhaps we should sit near you and then you will be able to point it out to us every time he does this!

[Gordaleman]

Ive spoken to several Burnley fans at work today since your post and not one of them has noticed that Nick Pope wastes time when we are losing games.

Perhaps we should sit near you and then you will be able to point it out to us every time he does this!

Let me re-phrase what I said. Pope takes an awful long while to take goal kicks. That doesn't change, even when we're losing.

That's one reason he probably won't get picked for England.

Is that better?

[Mattster]

Pope's distribution is often used a stick to beat him with but his stats in this area are simply a symptom of the system we play.

It's a small sample size (though the only one we have outside of our system) but for England his passing accuracy was better (both short and long) than Pickford's was against the same opposition (Kosovo). 86% vs 80% with 7 accurate long passes from 11 vs 7 from 13.

[Gordaleman]

"Pope's distribution is often used a stick to beat him with."


Precisely, so it's not just me then that thinks so.

I agree that he's a very good goalkeeper, (And Pickford's not.) that's why I posted the link from SKY, but until he speeds up his goalkicks and other distribution, he'll struggle to get in the England team.

[Mattster]

I mean you've completely ignored the rest of the post which contains the actual point I was making (ie. His distribution isn't bad he's simply playing as he's asked) but sure, you do you.

[Gordaleman]

I mean you've completely ignored the rest of the post which contains the actual point I was making (ie. His distribution isn't bad he's simply playing as he's asked) but sure, you do you.

Sorry but I disagree with you about him playing as he is asked. Just watch the other players calling for the ball and making good runs, only for them to be ignored. He is very, very slow and it has nothing to do with Sean's tactics. Then, as often as not, he kicks the ball straight out of play or straight to his opposite number in the opposition goal. Pope rarely changes whether we are winning or losing.

Other than his distribution, he's a great keeper. All I'm saying is that he's unlikely to get in the England team until his distribution improves.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[IanMcL]

No. 1 with clear blue sky between him and the competition.

[SalisburyClaret]

Hmm - getting criticised for not playing accurate long balls - play one game in wet and windy conditions and your stats will be rubbish

We normally play long balls and conditions in Burnley are often wet n windy. Keepers playing short balls will always look good in comparison

[Devils_Advocate]

Sir Alf understood that you don’t necessarily play the ‘best’ players, you weigh up who does what, when, why and how then build a team.

Team.

Precisely and no matter how well Pope, Tarks and Mee play for us if they are not the best fit for the team Southgate is trying to build then he rightly will not select them.

The idea that Southgate selects his England keeper on a single criteria like distribution is nonsense. He will understand all the different attributes he needs from his England keeper and the weighting of their importance to his teams success and then pick the best all round keeper based on that criteria.

[martin_p]

Precisely and no matter how well Pope, Tarks and Mee play for us if they are not the best fit for the team Southgate is trying to build then he rightly will not select them.

The idea that Southgate selects his England keeper on a single criteria like distribution is nonsense. He will understand all the different attributes he needs from his England keeper and the weighting of their importance to his teams success and then pick the best all round keeper based on that criteria.

Or more likely he will understand all the different attributes he needs from his England keeper and the weighting of their importance to his teams success and then pick Pickford regardless.

[Devils_Advocate]

Or more likely he will understand all the different attributes he needs from his England keeper and the weighting of their importance to his teams success and then pick Pickford regardless.

I dont think thats how football managers work.

They all have players they think are better and that they trust and they all tend to stick with players who are doing well for them but you sound like some of those Burnley fans who moan at Dyche for always picking his favourites and not because he works with them and makes a decision who he thinks are best for his team

[martin_p]

I dont think thats how football managers work.

They all have players they think are better and that they trust and they all tend to stick with players who are doing well for them but you sound like some of those Burnley fans who moan at Dyche for always picking his favourites and not because he works with them and makes a decision who he thinks are best for his team

I’m doing the opposite of that, I moaning because when it comes to the keeper I think Southgate is picking his favourite. I don’t see how Pope detracts from England in an attacking sense. He can roll the ball out to defenders if he’s asked to, it’s not hard.

[SalisburyClaret]

Ultimately, Southgate will cover his backside

If Pope makes an error then Southgate was wrong to pick him

If Pickford makes an error then Southgate was being loyal and Pickford hasn’t let us down in the past - so it was the right decision

God forbid we just pick our best keeper and try and win the thing

[Devils_Advocate]

I’m doing the opposite of that, I moaning because when it comes to the keeper I think Southgate is picking his favourite. I don’t see how Pope detracts from England in an attacking sense. He can roll the ball out to defenders if he’s asked to, it’s not hard.

So you think Southgate picks a player because he is his favourite and not because he is the best player and some Burnley fans on here thinks Dyche picks certain players because they are his favourites and not because they are the better player.

Sounds the same to me

[martin_p]

So you think Southgate picks a player because he is his favourite and not because he is the best player and some Burnley fans on here thinks Dyche picks certain players because they are his favourites and not because they are the better player.

Sounds the same to me

It completely different! I’m right and they’re wrong

[Devils_Advocate]

It completely different! I’m right and they’re wrong

Good point

[Rileybobs]

I’m doing the opposite of that, I moaning because when it comes to the keeper I think Southgate is picking his favourite. I don’t see how Pope detracts from England in an attacking sense. He can roll the ball out to defenders if he’s asked to, it’s not hard.

Why would Pickford be Southgate's favourite? If Pickford is his favourite it's because Southgate thinks he is England's best goalkeeper. Why would Southgate sabotage his own employment by picking players for any reason than their attitude and ability?

For what it's worth, Southgate seems a really sensible guy and I think he will know that there's little justification for giving Pickford the number one jersey in the next international.

[IanMcL]

If Pickup (outofnet) plays, I hope he lets a simple one through his legs, cries raises his hands (which won't be noticed) and disappears forever, as an England keeper.

[Mattster]

Sorry but I disagree with you about him playing as he is asked. Just watch the other players calling for the ball and making good runs, only for them to be ignored. He is very, very slow and it has nothing to do with Sean's tactics. Then, as often as not, he kicks the ball straight out of play or straight to his opposite number in the opposition goal. Pope rarely changes whether we are winning or losing.

Other than his distribution, he's a great keeper. All I'm saying is that he's unlikely to get in the England team until his distribution improves.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

So how do you explain his completely different passing stats when he was played in a different system for England? Fluke?

[Gordaleman]

So how do you explain his completely different passing stats when he was played in a different system for England? Fluke?

I haven't seen his stats for England but I know that you can't work out an average from one game.

[houseboy]

The problem with this argument is the goals we concede to City, L’pool, Chelsea,etc., on a regular basis. Against international opposition they'd be mullered.

That is a very good point. However they would be given more protection by the Engalnd midfield than they get for us and England's attack would take far more pressure off them. England currently spend much of the time in the opposition half - we don't.

[Mattster]

I haven't seen his stats for England but I know that you can't work out an average from one game.

You quoted my post with them in.

[Gordaleman]

Mattster wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:03 pm
So how do you explain his completely different passing stats when he was played in a different system for England? Fluke?
I haven't seen his stats for England but I know that you can't work out an average from one game.

So where are the stats?

Anyway, as I said previously, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Tricky Trevor]

That is a very good point. However they would be given more protection by the Engalnd midfield than they get for us and England's attack would take far more pressure off them. England currently spend much of the time in the opposition half - we don't.

Fair point. It would be good viewing to see what a difference it would make to them with a bit more pressure off.

[Mattster]

So where are the stats?

Anyway, as I said previously, we'll have to agree to disagree.

YOU QUOTED MY POST WITH THEM IN.

But if you're incapable of scrolling and reading...

It's a small sample size (though the only one we have outside of our system) but for England his passing accuracy was better (both short and long) than Pickford's was against the same opposition (Kosovo). 86% vs 80% with 7 accurate long passes from 11 vs 7 from 13.

[JohnMac]

The problem with this argument is the goals we concede to City, L’pool, Chelsea,etc., on a regular basis. Against international opposition they'd be mullered.

Possibly not with a better midfield screening them. No slight on ours but the England 4 must be better than ours.

[Gordaleman]

YOU QUOTED MY POST WITH THEM IN.

But if you're incapable of scrolling and reading...

So personal insults is your response now?

I did not quote any post with stats in it and I won't be responding any more to your posts. As I've now said three times. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[houseboy]

Fair point. It would be good viewing to see what a difference it would make to them with a bit more pressure off.

It would be a good experiment. They have the potential to make England even better by giving them a decent defence (which they don't have currently), the only downside, possibly, is if they 'go to sleep' because of the lack of pressure. Sometimes it's pressure that makes people good and if that was taken away who knows how they would respond. But as you say also they have a tough time against the top sides in the PL, how would they cope trying to deal with the Ronaldos and Lewandowskis of this world?

[bfcmik]

Then, as often as not, he kicks the ball straight out of play or straight to his opposite number in the opposition goal. Pope rarely changes whether we are winning or losing.

He occasionally sees a ball go straight out of play when he aims for a wide player but most of the time it stays well in field. And I could probably count on one hand the number of his kicks that have gone straight through the the opposition keeper. Our strategy with Pope's long kicks is exactly the same as that of the outfield players, namely to play for the 2nd ball. It would be interesting to see the stat on 2nd balls won from his kicks.

[Mattster]

So personal insults is your response now?

I did not quote any post with stats in it and I won't be responding any more to your posts. As I've now said three times. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Where's the personal insult? I suppose that's the easy way of dodging the stats that directly contradict your opinion.

[Gordaleman]

Where's the personal insult? I suppose that's the easy way of dodging the stats that directly contradict your opinion.

"But if you're incapable of scrolling and reading..." Nuff said.

I've had enough of this, it's pointless. You have your view, blinkered though it may be, and I have mine and it seems that never the twain shall meet.

If you want the last word, be my guest.

[Mattster]

"But if you're incapable of scrolling and reading..." Nuff said.

I've had enough of this, it's pointless. You have your view, blinkered though it may be, and I have mine and it seems that never the twain shall meet.

If you want the last word, be my guest.

Statement of fact, you yourself said you couldn't see the stats even though they were in the post you quoted (which you then bizarrely claim you didn't do despite everyone being clearly able to see).

"blinkered", oh the irony

[superdimitri]

I can't understand how people can't see the distribution thing. It's been something that's been absolutely paramount to success in the modern game. Like it or not the reason Pope isn't considered is because of his poor kicking accuracy.

But you can tell he's working on distribution. His kicking isn't that much better but his throwing and reading of the game when he turns over the ball is much improved.

I hope he'll make it but it will probably benefit Burnley more if he doesn't. It will be pretty tragic if Henderson gets the shirt instead though. His kicking is just as bad.

[Tricky Trevor]

I can't understand how people can't see the distribution thing. It's been something that's been absolutely paramount to success in the modern game.

The top 2 have Allison and Becker there is no other keeper comes close to these two. All that Guardiola has brought into our game with passing about at the back is a catalogue of cockups and soft goals being given away. Thank goodness we didn’t get involved in it.
He is not the Messiah.

[Bigvince]

The top 2 have Allison and Becker there is no other keeper comes close to these two. All that Guardiola has brought into our game with passing about at the back is a catalogue of cockups and soft goals being given away. Thank goodness we didn’t get involved in it.
He is not the Messiah.

Only Liverpool have Alison and Becker, city have Ederson