Today's budget

[Cryssys]

You can't argue with the truth of what I'm saying so you ignore it and resort to deflection instead. Well done you.

Top marks for sticking your head in the sand.

[KateR]

Whilst I agree.
I saw a feature on Bloomberg a few weeks ago.

The company who produce the propulsion system for formula E are set to release a new electric car.

They claim it will do 450 miles on one charge, to me that’s game changing.

Virtually nothing to service and you can go to the extents of the uk on one charge.

Understand what you are saying, however I believe electric vehicles are a stepping stone and don't help the climate that much. Hydrogen will be the power of the future for vehicles, this has been proven and the UK Gov and way behind in this and I would have liked to see a push to introduce this in the UK. Simularly Solar PV is taking off and has new/better methods which has reduced cost/KW, however Wind is the Power of the future, for Wind there were $60 Billion worth of projects released for 2019 only and it is increasing it's share of world wide power generation against all other forms.

[KateR]

How predictable are Andrew and his clique with his wing men Gordy & Crysilis, why don't you send out Clique memorandums from the Clique, save the rest of us from having to go through regurgitated bile, it really is sad, maybe even pitiful that your stuck in your failed past. I'm sure no one believed you would even say let's see how it actually goes, we knew you'd be steaming in behind what JC has say, was not an even, "well that was better than I expected".

Ohhh, nearly forgot, was it mentioned that BJ told a lie or two, I'm sure it was but wont bother going back to check. What a sad little Clique to be a member of, it really is but it's nice to see how they all protect each other and like each others posts, plus at least they are all singing from the same hymn sheet, which should keep the cozy in the collective blinkered clique.

[Lowbankclaret]

Understand what you are saying, however I believe electric vehicles are a stepping stone and don't help the climate that much. Hydrogen will be the power of the future for vehicles, this has been proven and the UK Gov and way behind in this and I would have liked to see a push to introduce this in the UK. Simularly Solar PV is taking off and has new/better methods which has reduced cost/KW, however Wind is the Power of the future, for Wind there were $60 Billion worth of projects released for 2019 only and it is increasing it's share of world wide power generation against all other forms.

My company set its greatest brain on developing a hydrogen fuel cell. They did invest a lot of money, time and brains into it.

The whole project got canned, though I don’t know the details of why, but it must have been a good reason.

I agree on solar PV, I have thought it should be compulsory for new builds, that way the planners would orientate the roofs for best advantage. I think we are missing massive savings by not doing this.

Wind turbines are still fairly inefficient and I believe with the right investment and brains behind it could double their efficiency.

So yes in main I agree with you, but there must be a good reason RR ditched the hydrogen fuel cell.

[bfccrazy]

Key phrase buried on page 25 of budget, "if debt interest to revenue ratio is forecast to remain over 6%, the government will take action to ensure the debt-to-gdp ratio is falling."


I read 'take action' as more austerity.

[Cryssys]

How predictable are Andrew and his clique with his wing men Gordy & Crysilis, why don't you send out Clique memorandums from the Clique, save the rest of us from having to go through regurgitated bile, it really is sad, maybe even pitiful that your stuck in your failed past. I'm sure no one believed you would even say let's see how it actually goes, we knew you'd be steaming in behind what JC has say, was not an even, "well that was better than I expected".

Ohhh, nearly forgot, was it mentioned that BJ told a lie or two, I'm sure it was but wont bother going back to check. What a sad little Clique to be a member of, it really is but it's nice to see how they all protect each other and like each others posts, plus at least they are all singing from the same hymn sheet, which should keep the cozy in the collective blinkered clique.

Crysilis? Was that an attempt at humour or just childish ignorance?

If you had bothered to read my initial post you would have seen that I said that the budget had much to recommend it

As for cliques, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. How would you class yourself, Ringo, claretandy, hotlyclaret et al? I'd say you were a clique, all spouting the same happy clappy ten bob tory bull.

What is wrong with highlighting the fact that Johnson is a proven liar and has now set about breaking the promises he made in the election campaign. Is it OK for him to lie because your a supporter?

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

[KateR]

My company set its greatest brain on developing a hydrogen fuel cell. They did invest a lot of money, time and brains into it.

The whole project got canned, though I don’t know the details of why, but it must have been a good reason.

I agree on solar PV, I have thought it should be compulsory for new builds, that way the planners would orientate the roofs for best advantage. I think we are missing massive savings by not doing this.

Wind turbines are still fairly inefficient and I believe with the right investment and brains behind it could double their efficiency.

So yes in main I agree with you, but there must be a good reason RR ditched the hydrogen fuel cell.

totally agree there will be a good reason, there was a good reason the Chairman of IBM rejected the windows offer from Gates & Co, didn't make it right. However there are numerous vehicles running of Hydrogen but perhaps at this time making a jet engine to run of Hydrogen is just not feasible economically.

Have a think about this, the Netherlands Gov has passed a law that no new homes can be built with gas piped in to them, they can use Hydrogen, in the South of the country there are two Hydrogen fueling stations for vehicles, totally unmanned self service. The Dutch believe so strongly that Hydrogen is the fuel of the future and that while natural gas is so much better than coal/diesel/wood etc. that they are making it compulsorily. I do know there have been meetings between the Dutch and British Gov's but we are in the, well let's see how well these guys do before we start pushing this.

The city of Aberdeen buses run on Hydrogen, I was informed of this only in the last few days so have not fact checked that one.

Production of Hydrogen is a factor as it is costly if made in the usual way, however you can make hydrogen from electrolysis while using Solar PV.

Hydrogen is a long way behind electric vehicles and clearly not at the mass production stage, yet! What I was trying to say regarding the budget was that I would like to have seen some funding going to this development, one of BJ & Co's drivers, which I was liking very much, was the encouragement of new idea and bringing them to market. Hydrogen is not a new idea but it needs funding/help to get it the point of mass use, it will be the future in my opinion.

[KateR]

Crysilis? Was that an attempt at humour or just childish ignorance?

If you had bothered to read my initial post you would have seen that I said that the budget had much to recommend it

As for cliques, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. How would you class yourself, Ringo, claretandy, hotlyclaret et al? I'd say you were a clique, all spouting the same happy clappy ten bob tory bull.

What is wrong with highlighting the fact that Johnson is a proven liar and has now set about breaking the promises he made in the election campaign. Is it OK for him to lie because your a supporter?

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

awww, did we touch a nerve, never mind am sure name calling will make you feel better, it's your default position.

I'll tell you what I have told Andrew a billion times, we all agree with you, he has told lies, will he tell lies in the future, yes, so it's so boring and it's irrelevant to any form of debate/argument you wish to take part in. No one says it's ok to lie, we would all prefer he and anyone else did not do it.

ten bob tory, another futile attempt to label people, it's like the working man.

You and the rest of your clique need to get past what you don't like, it's like when your mother gave you sprouts with your meal when young, push it to one side and ignore it. Not asking anyone to change there mind and certainly would never even intimate that all things Tory are good, they are not, but the bottom line you don't seem to be able to understand in any way or fashion is that BJ with all his know lies & Co won an election against all other parties regardless of JC and his attempt to buy the population.

I could understand and agree with you if you said many of the things let in the budget were similar/same as Labour because they were, it's definitely a good budget, it is not an austerity budget so that should please everyone, particularly your crew so surely it's a step in the right direction for the country.

Will it please everyone, no, will it repair the years of austerity, no but it is a step in the right direction and it means a lot of borrowing , which is a worry to me but if you're going to borrow now is the time, unfortunately the amount of borrowing the Labour manifesto required was a step to far to me.

[AndrewJB]

It looks as though KateR is pushing aside inconvenient facts, such as Johnson's dishonesty as though they're sprouts on a plate. She is right that time will tell, though. No doubt the raving Johsonites on here will continue to fasten their hands to their ears, and refuse to listen to reason - such as Johnson's proven track record of wasting vast quantities of public money. In the Cult of Johnson, belief is everything.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Wonder how many years it is going to take Andrew getting over the hammering little jeremy took.

[Holtyclaret]

It looks as though KateR is pushing aside inconvenient facts, such as Johnson's dishonesty as though they're sprouts on a plate. She is right that time will tell, though. No doubt the raving Johsonites on here will continue to fasten their hands to their ears, and refuse to listen to reason - such as Johnson's proven track record of wasting vast quantities of public money. In the Cult of Johnson, belief is everything.

The cult of Johnson??

Re-read this thread and see which side is ranting the same boring shite over and over and over again. Sounds like a) poor losers who can’t move on like the country is apace b) some attempt at a form of radicalisation, cult like behaviour c) not listening to the views of others because they don’t conform to their own, cult like behaviour.

[Holtyclaret]

Wonder how many years it is going to take Andrew getting over the hammering little jeremy took.

Sadly I don’t think he ever will

[KateR]

It looks as though KateR is pushing aside inconvenient facts, such as Johnson's dishonesty as though they're sprouts on a plate. She is right that time will tell, though. No doubt the raving Johsonites on here will continue to fasten their hands to their ears, and refuse to listen to reason - such as Johnson's proven track record of wasting vast quantities of public money. In the Cult of Johnson, belief is everything.

how on earth do I push inconvenient facts to the side, I admitted, continually such that I'm boring myself that he has lied and will again. The sprouts analogy were not just BJ and lies it was everything you dislike about BJ, Tories and Brexit and am sure you know it. Your clique is just like the opposing party, regardless of what maybe a step in the right direction you will bring it back to the past and appropriate blame and say to little to late.

Cult of Johnson, lol, good one, yet I agree belief is everything and your world must be a very dark sad place to live, so can I plagiarize and say the Cult of JC & Losers.

I love the bit about refusing to listen to reason, ohhh the irony of it all, please, please I have implored you so many times to give rationale reasoning from your own brain rather than the links of doom, which continually fall to the wayside.

Anyway regarding the thread I think the clear consensus believes it is a positive one and that's what counts, but do appreciate you and your cliques input to the thoughts. You of course neglect that the budget as laid out is the long awaited change from austerity for your own reasons, my thoughts are because it doesn't fit with your narrative and dogma, but in the end it's irrelevant.

[basil6345789]

Couldn't agree more.

Two major banks caused the 2007 financial crisis according to a report by the US government. One was Deutche Bank and the other Goldman Sachs. Rishi Sunak (Our Chancellor) worked for Goldmann Sachs and his predecessor Sajid Javid worked for Deutch Bank where he was involved in a tax haven scandal involving the Cayman Islands. Are they really the sort of people to be looking after the poor? I think not.

In 2010, the when interest rates were as low as they are now, the Labour Party wanted to borrow money and rebuild the country's infrastructure. They were howled down by the Tories who said same old Labour, borrow and wreck the country. Instead, they embarked on a political choice of ten years of austerity which destroyed thousands of lives and led to thousands of unnecessary deaths. It also left our infrastructure another ten years out of date.

Now, the Tories are borrowing so much, that the country is likely to be in big trouble in the next few years, especially if interest rates rise again. (And they're unlikely to fall from .25%) After ten years, they still haven't paid back the debt the financial crisis left them with, even though they promised to pay it back in one parliament, and now they're adding hundreds of billions to it.

Why doesn't the electorate learn something?

The root cause of the 2007 crisis was greed in pursuance of crazy levels of credit - live now, pay tomorrow. We're still at it. Gordon Brown was in the elite world group championing this model.

[Gordaleman]

The root cause of the 2007 crisis was greed in pursuance of crazy levels of credit - live now, pay tomorrow. We're still at it. Gordon Brown was in the elite world group championing this model.

George Brown and Alistaire Darling both wanted to borrow whilst interest rates were low, to rebuild Britains infrastructure. The tories crucified them for wanting to borow and put Britain in debt. Instead they gave Britain ten years of austerity and a Health Servive that hasn't a chance of dealing with the Covid-19 outbreak.

Now, after ten years of imposed misery, they think it's OK to steal Labour's clothes and spend, spend, spend.

So what's changed and why were Labour wrong and the Tories are right?

[TVC15]

The root cause of the 2007 crisis was greed in pursuance of crazy levels of credit - live now, pay tomorrow. We're still at it. Gordon Brown was in the elite world group championing this model.

That is fundamentally correct but it’s actually a lot darker and more complex than this.

In simple terms the greed of bankers and shareholders was allowed to get completely out of control as a new economic model was invented which resembled a pyramid scheme of lending.
It was allowed to happen by governments who at best were incompetent as they failed to regulate and at worst they were part of the scam as they saw their own tax revenues go through the roof from the illicit profits being made.

At the bottom of the pile was a whole part of society who were provided with credit and mortgages that everybody knew they had no ability to repay.
But what did the greedy bankers care ? They had found a way to sell on the debt in the disgraceful world of derivatives.

And then not surprisingly a whole financial market built on sand came crashing down.

A sorry sorry tale of greed and sheer stupidity - it was one of the biggest crimes and scams ever seen in the financial sector....and how many people went to prison for these crimes ? Just the one !!
Why just the one ? Because they were all in on it.

[Cryssys]

awww, did we touch a nerve, never mind am sure name calling will make you feel better, it's your default position.

I'll tell you what I have told Andrew a billion times, we all agree with you, he has told lies, will he tell lies in the future, yes, so it's so boring and it's irrelevant to any form of debate/argument you wish to take part in. No one says it's ok to lie, we would all prefer he and anyone else did not do it.

ten bob tory, another futile attempt to label people, it's like the working man.

You and the rest of your clique need to get past what you don't like, it's like when your mother gave you sprouts with your meal when young, push it to one side and ignore it. Not asking anyone to change there mind and certainly would never even intimate that all things Tory are good, they are not, but the bottom line you don't seem to be able to understand in any way or fashion is that BJ with all his know lies & Co won an election against all other parties regardless of JC and his attempt to buy the population.

I could understand and agree with you if you said many of the things let in the budget were similar/same as Labour because they were, it's definitely a good budget, it is not an austerity budget so that should please everyone, particularly your crew so surely it's a step in the right direction for the country.

Will it please everyone, no, will it repair the years of austerity, no but it is a step in the right direction and it means a lot of borrowing , which is a worry to me but if you're going to borrow now is the time, unfortunately the amount of borrowing the Labour manifesto required was a step to far to me.

You're a bit lacking in self awareness or objectivity aren't you?. Here is a man who got himself elected as Prime minister by telling lies and spreading misinformation. But that's OK with you because he's your man. Win at any cost. Lie, cheat, steal do what you want. The ends justifies the means.

As for cliques, I'm in the one that includes the 56% of the country that didn't want a Tory government lead by Boris Johnson

It's also apparent that you have not read my earlier post. The one in which I welcomed the budget and said many of the measures were the same as Labours. In fact the borrowing plans in the budget exceed those proposed in the Labour party manifesto so how you can say the labour party manifesto was step to far for you is beyond me.

[KateR]

your lack of understanding of all things, please please try to read your own posts and have some sense of how bombastically righteous you come across to most people.

No one and I mean no one who posts like you and your clique in terms of everything Tory is bad and only labour down the decades have got it right, I am incredulous with your mantra, because the way every post is a dig and blame at others is quite astounding in the terms, that if you think someone, you, who continuously blames a particular group, and when continually proven wrong and in a minority still stick to the same belief.

I know we are far apart in our thinking and for me that is a good thing as I don't like group thinking, when you say this budget exceeds those items in manifesto proposed by Labour then we are even further apart than I thought.

As for your 56% that is BS unless you want to qualify it as being the population that actually voted, even then you and everyone knows the voting rules and Labour had a tremendous defeat. Go back to the war years and look at the number of times a Labour Gov has been voted in and try to explain the why, since I am constantly told the are the party of the working man, yet the working constantly rejects them time and again. Of course you could revert to your clique line of the people don't know what they are doing, they were duped and stupid enough to listen to the media who were anti JC and Labour and it had nothing to do with the politics in the HoC.

And for the umpteenth and last time BJ is not my man, however, he is the duly democratically elected PM of the UK and I look to him as to what is happening, what I think will happen and more than happy to call him out when I think he is wrong, I have already stated within this thread something I am not happy about and could be better. All I continue to ask you and others is to look at things in the same way, all what he does is not bad, and I can totally agree not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but at the root of it all, which is a fact, is that he and the Tories were deemed better to run the country in face of all the other parties.

[Cryssys]

Kate R said: "As for your 56% that is BS unless you want to qualify it as being the population that actually voted."

What kind of a statement is that ? What else would I base it on, those that didn't vote?

You need to get your head round the fact that less than 44% voted conservative. You need to get your head round the fact that the Tories have lied and cheated their way into power. You need to get your head round the fact that the Tories do not command the respect or support of the majority of the country. In a democracy I have every right to voice my concerns and highlight what I consider to be the inadequacies of government.

I am no more a member of a clique that you are, I'm just one of 15 million plus of British people who are deeply concerned about the direction in which this country is heading.

Re the budget I said that the Tories spending plans will cost more than those proposed by labour. That is a fact. The Tories are going to borrow more money than Labour would have borrowed. I don't see how that puts us even further apart?

[TVC15]

It’s always a “clique” when you are one of those who don’t like Johnson...if it’s not denying democracy or what the good British people have voted for it’s some kind of secret club people have joined.
To say it’s beyond tedious is a massive understatement.

If people who dislike Johnson are in a clique what’s the name for the group who like him ? I can think of a few names but wondered what the technical terms is.

Anyway I’m proud to be in this clique who think he is a lying, cheating racist upper class womanising sh-it house of a father Tory c-unt. Now I realise that maybe a bit of a specialist clique but I’m the honorary chairman and actively recruiting for more members.

[Gordaleman]

It’s always a “clique” when you are one of those who don’t like Johnson...if it’s not denying democracy or what the good British people have voted for it’s some kind of secret club people have joined.
To say it’s beyond tedious is a massive understatement.

If people who dislike Johnson are in a clique what’s the name for the group who like him ? I can think of a few names but wondered what the technical terms is.

Anyway I’m proud to be in this clique who think he is a lying, cheating racist upper class womanising sh-it house of a father Tory c-unt. Now I realise that maybe a bit of a specialist clique but I’m the honorary chairman and actively recruiting for more members.

Can I join please?

[TVC15]

Can I join please?

Of course.
That’s 2....which now meets the criteria for a clique.

[Gordaleman]

Of course.
That’s 2....which now meets the criteria for a clique.

Can I just add that borrowing billions of pounds is OK for the Tories, so how come it was so bad when Labour wanted to do it in 2007?

[AndrewJB]

Sadly I don’t think he ever will

This is a thread about the budget, and I've commented on it. I've been critical of Johnson for a long time (he was my mayor for eight years), but it's likely the only criticism you hear of him is from me and a few others on here - so it's not like you're bombarded by it. And in my defence I'm at least consistent - not like the weathervanes on here who claimed only a few months ago that spending on public infrastructure would bankrupt the country, and now champion it as a great budget.

I've said before I'm not really bothered who delivers it, but the end result that counts. I'd like to see a better Britain - more generally prosperous (wealth more spread around), better public services, decent jobs, affordable housing, a country that takes the problem of global warming seriously, and a country that puts ethics at the forefront of foreign and domestic policy - much of which I'd imagine you agree with. So if Johnson's government goes in this direction that's a good thing in my opinion.

[KateR]

Kate R said: "As for your 56% that is BS unless you want to qualify it as being the population that actually voted."

What kind of a statement is that ? What else would I base it on, those that didn't vote?
you have on numerous occasions wanted facts/clarifications and things not open to interpretation, hence why I mentioned the 56%, so you and I and everyone else has no idea what the none voting population wanted but irrelevant.

You need to get your head round the fact that less than 44% voted conservative. You need to get your head round the fact that the Tories have lied and cheated their way into power. You need to get your head round the fact that the Tories do not command the respect or support of the majority of the country. In a democracy I have every right to voice my concerns and highlight what I consider to be the inadequacies of government.
my head is around the fact, 44% voted (I don't know this and am taking you at your word here) however 56% did not vote for labour did they? I'm sure not otherwise I "think" labour would be in power, but please advise me to the truth in that regard, if fact do you actually have a percentage of how many people voted labour versus the 44% who voted the lying tory party in? Can you get your head around the fact that 44% percent meant a landslide win for the Tory party and the worst result for the labour party for a very very long time, can actually agree to this?


I am no more a member of a clique that you are, I'm just one of 15 million plus of British people who are deeply concerned about the direction in which this country is heading.
when I first mentioned clique, you were not part of it but as a jonny come lately who jumped on the Andrew/Martin bandwagon it was easy to put you there, because as I said you all sing from the same songsheet. There are numerous, lots of people on this site, this thread who don't vote tory, who vote labour but have never been mentioned as in the clique, and for good reason, they don't have the dogma you preach, they don't have the fanatical hatred of all things tory like you. Lancaster for example used to post a lot pre-election and I feel we had good rationale dialogue where he made me think and question my own thoughts, yet he was never in the clique but skirting around the edges occasionally. I really really don't like the dogma that comes from you and the clique and admit to trying to use "the clique" terminology twofold, one to put a few people with what I would call almost fanatically views into a single box such that when I use it for anyone of you then the others also know I'm referring to them. I could have used the term Marxist/Comrades but decided I liked clique better, and secondly yes child like to try and get under all your skins

Re the budget I said that the Tories spending plans will cost more than those proposed by labour. That is a fact. The Tories are going to borrow more money than Labour would have borrowed. I don't see how that puts us even further apart?

In my humble opinion and as someone who is supposed to know nothing the budget and the manifesto are separate in this unique situation, the virus alone has contributed a sizeable chunk of money to the overall budget that was never envisaged by any party manifesto. So it is not a simple apples to apples comparison of what is in the actual budget and what was in the labour manifest, I hope you agree to this and can see a difference and detailed complex costings would be required to get a true comparison. Things in the labour manifesto were not costed properly, not just me saying that, there is a huge difference in Labour, free broadband for everyone policy and what the Tory budget has proposed. Additionally Labour just as one example stated they would take over that particular area and run it (plus numerous others) and when asked how they could afford it, the answer was simple. We will take everything from the shareholders but give them Gov. Bonds in return. This is how we are further apart, because labour were not going to borrow for it, they were simply going to steal it from the owners who would have no say, just one example, so if they had to borrow instead of stealing then the actual final sum of borrowing by labour would have been a factor above this budget, just in my simple thought process.

I would add that I saw the two main manifestos as separate (obviously) and did say the early days of the labour one that it was good, I just felt they kept adding to suit and buy the vote of every group within the land, a step to far and I think it backfired and hurt them immensely. I also thought that the Tory one had things that pointed to trying to male things better after we left the EU in terms of funding for new ideas and businesses where I did not see that in the labour one, I may have missed it.

I like that you've joined a new clique with TV, that one I suspect will be a very abusive one with lots of name calling, at least you're branching out and trying to learn new things

I found funny on a separate thread the mention of clique from someone obviously reading and made it humouruous, however being put in a clique with Ringo is not something I really want and would like to disclaim myself from that clique but I suppose if one supports certain views once could be tarred with the same brush. Therefore I will try to stay away from that potential label but maybe to late

I was not even going to reply to your post as I think we can agree we are far apart, however when I saw the football cancelled I thought ohhh no, my Saturday and Sunday ruined, what am I going to do, so along with probably eating and drinking more over the weekend I thought I could talk with my friends on the forum

[KateR]

well that got all messed up, 3 out ten for presentation and can do much better would be the best score I could give myself!! SORRY

[KateR]

just to add another point I don't like is that it appears the carbon capture regarding the environment has a budget a third of the size of the pothole repair! Now potholes do get me angry but I think the balance here is wrong and the drive regarding the environment is more important than it looks to the Chancellor/Gov. if we just assume priority purely on monetary terms within the budget.

[Cryssys]

Kate R

There is much in your post that I agree with. The Labour Party did not read the mood of the country and in JC they had a leader who was unelectable. I know that and it makes me despair. That despair is only deepened when I look at the majority the Tories have, who they are lead by and where they are leading us.

I care about the future of this country and it's people. The bottom line is I do not believe that the the Tories have the best interests of the ordinary person at heart. Sure, they splashed a bit of cash in the recent budget and I welcome that but after 10 years of austerity and economic mismanagement during which time our public services have been stressed to breaking point don't expect me to be grateful.

It was the ordinary person who bore the brunt of austerity. It didn't have to be that way. They could have done more. They should have done more. They didn't. Now, they've suddenly found lots of magic money trees.

As for the future, I hope things get better. They could hardly be much worse than the last 10 years.

Trouble is I do not believe that the policies that this government will pursue will benefit the wider population. I can confidently predict that If that is the case, I will be certain to remind you

[KateR]

Cryssys,
well I must say I found myself reading your post wondering when the "but' and the argument would come, I am very pleasantly surprised with what you say and can not argue/contradict any of it as it is understandable as a separate opinion coming from a different angle.

I would expect nothing less than you reminding me but pray and hope you don't have to but we both know not everything will be perfect and I am 100% in agreement regarding the results must be to the benefit of the wider population.

Have a great weekend

[Volvoclaret]

Cryssys and Kate get a room together.

[Cryssys]

Cryssys and Kate get a room together.

Jealousy is such an ugly emotion.

[AndrewJB]

In my humble opinion and as someone who is supposed to know nothing the budget and the manifesto are separate in this unique situation, the virus alone has contributed a sizeable chunk of money to the overall budget that was never envisaged by any party manifesto. So it is not a simple apples to apples comparison of what is in the actual budget and what was in the labour manifest, I hope you agree to this and can see a difference and detailed complex costings would be required to get a true comparison. Things in the labour manifesto were not costed properly, not just me saying that, there is a huge difference in Labour, free broadband for everyone policy and what the Tory budget has proposed. Additionally Labour just as one example stated they would take over that particular area and run it (plus numerous others) and when asked how they could afford it, the answer was simple. We will take everything from the shareholders but give them Gov. Bonds in return. This is how we are further apart, because labour were not going to borrow for it, they were simply going to steal it from the owners who would have no say, just one example, so if they had to borrow instead of stealing then the actual final sum of borrowing by labour would have been a factor above this budget, just in my simple thought process.

I would add that I saw the two main manifestos as separate (obviously) and did say the early days of the labour one that it was good, I just felt they kept adding to suit and buy the vote of every group within the land, a step to far and I think it backfired and hurt them immensely. I also thought that the Tory one had things that pointed to trying to male things better after we left the EU in terms of funding for new ideas and businesses where I did not see that in the labour one, I may have missed it.

I like that you've joined a new clique with TV, that one I suspect will be a very abusive one with lots of name calling, at least you're branching out and trying to learn new things

I found funny on a separate thread the mention of clique from someone obviously reading and made it humouruous, however being put in a clique with Ringo is not something I really want and would like to disclaim myself from that clique but I suppose if one supports certain views once could be tarred with the same brush. Therefore I will try to stay away from that potential label but maybe to late

I was not even going to reply to your post as I think we can agree we are far apart, however when I saw the football cancelled I thought ohhh no, my Saturday and Sunday ruined, what am I going to do, so along with probably eating and drinking more over the weekend I thought I could talk with my friends on the forum

Some thoughts on your post: If nationalising a company or industry below "market value" is theft, then it's also theft when a company or industry is privatised below market value. When Royal Mail was sold off - for arguably a fraction of its value - nobody raised a stink. It was an absolute rip-off for the people of Britain. Look at this (minor example):
https://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/04/ ... oyal-mail/

I wasn't invited to buy shares. They were only sold to a select few (which included Osborne's best man's company).

[KateR]

Andrew Andrew, shaking head in dismay,
no one has said anything, everyone has done in Gov; was perfect, no one has said everything was good, we all know things that were not right, people make decisions and sometimes they turn out ok, or even quite good, often they don't make a lot of difference or are definitely a mistake. It would be very easy to come up with counter arguments for everything, I am never going to try and justify RM being sold off nor any other thing but these are way back in the past. I am trying to look to the future and it was in regard to the Budget, which this thread was about and the manifestos provided by all parties. I was merely trying to point out something very pertinent and recent regarding the broadband.

Maybe you should try an new thread, maybe your "Tory Grievances Over the Years" that way you could just post these thing that seem to be burning issues for you to your hearts content and any one can add or discuss/reply as they want.