Today's budget

[tiger76]

no-one started a thread on this.

Bullet points are listed below.

Coronavirus response

£5bn emergency response fund to support the NHS and other public services
Statutory sick pay will be paid to all those who are advised to self-isolate, even if they have not presented with symptoms
Self-employed workers who are not eligible for sick pay will be able to claim contributory Employment Support Allowance
The ESA benefit will be available from day one, not after a week as now
£500m hardship fund for councils to help vulnerable people
Firms with fewer than 250 staff will be refunded for sick pay payments for two weeks
Small firms will be able to access "business interruption" loans of up to £1.2m
Business rates in England will be abolished for firms in the retail, leisure and hospitality sectors with a rateable value below £51,000

Personal taxation, wages and pensions

The tax threshold for National Insurance Contributions will rise from £8,632 to £9,500
The move, first announced in November, will take 500,000 employees out of the tax altogether
For those on salaries above £9,500, it will save them an average of £85 a year on average
5% VAT on women's sanitary products, known as the tampon tax, to be scrapped
No other new announcements on income tax, national insurance or VAT
Tax paid on the pensions of high earners, including doctors, to be recalculated

Alcohol, tobacco and fuel

Fuel duty to be frozen for the 10th consecutive year
Duties on spirits, beer, cider and wine to be frozen
Tobacco taxes will continue to rise by 2% above the rate of retail price inflation
This will add 27 pence to a pack of 20 cigarettes and 14 pence to a packet of cigars
Business rate discounts for pubs to rise from £1,000 to £5,000 this year

Business, digital and science

System of High Street business rates to be reviewed later this year
Firms eligible for small business rates relief will get £3,000 cash grant
Entrepreneurs' Relief will be retained, but lifetime allowance will be reduced from £10m to £1m
£5bn to be spent on getting gigabit-capable broadband into the hardest-to-reach places
Science Institute in Weybridge, Surrey to get a £1.4bn funding boost
An extra £900m for research into nuclear fusion, space and electric vehicles.
VAT on digital publications, including newspapers, books and academic journals to be scrapped from December

Environment and energy

Plastic packaging tax to come into force from April 2022
Manufacturers and importers whose products have less than 30% recyclable material will be charged £200 per tonne
Subsidies for fuel used in off-road vehicles - known as red diesel - will be scrapped "for most sectors" in two years' time
Red diesel subsidies will remain for farmers and rail operators
£120m in emergency relief for communities affected by this winter's flooding and £200m for flood resilience
Total investment in flood defences to be doubled to £5.2bn over next five years
£640m "nature for climate fund" to protect natural habitats, including 30,000 hectares of new trees

Transport, infrastructure and housing

More than £600bn is set to be spent on roads, rail, broadband and housing by the middle of 2025
There will be £27bn for motorways and other key roads, including new tunnel for the A303 near Stonehenge
£2.5bn will be made available to fix potholes and resurface roads over five years
Further education colleges will get £1.5bn in new investment in their buildings
£650m package to tackle homelessness, providing an extra 6,000 places for rough sleepers
Stamp duty surcharge for foreign buyers of UK properties to be levied at 2% from April 2021
New £1bn fund to remove all unsafe combustible cladding from all public and private housing higher than 18 metres

The state of the economy and public finances

Economy predicted to grow by 1.1% this year, revised down from 1.4% a year ago
The figure, which does not take into account the impact of coronavirus, would be the slowest growth since 2009
Growth predicted to rebound to 1.8% in 2021-22, 1.5% in 2022-23 and 1.3% in 2023-24
Inflation forecast of 1.4% this year, increasing to 1.8% in 2021-2022
Government to borrow £14.6bn more this year than previously forecast, equivalent to 2.1% of GDP
Total additional borrowing of £96.6bn forecast by 2023-2024 to pay for spending commitments
Debt as a percentage of GDP forecast to be lower at end of current Parliament than now

Nations and Regions

An extra £640m for Scotland, £360m for Wales, and £210m for Northern Ireland.
Treasury's Green Book rules to be reviewed to put regional prosperity at heart of spending decisions
Treasury to open new offices in Wales and Scotland
New civil service hub in the North of England, employing 750 staff

Thoughts anyone,and please try and keep the debate civil.

[Claret32yrs]

Was watching Mark Carney at lunchtime and he said the Bank of England has made up to and possibly more than £300 billion available. They'd already calculated into their sums occasions such as this. Should be enough to tide us over. Considering the circumstances the only thing I am unhappy about is giving Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland money. They have their own parliament's.

[ClaretEngineer]

Excellent news re transport infrastructure.

Would also like utility firms to shoulder some of the responsibility for the state of the roads, as its their poor reinstatement works that cause the surfaces to fail and break up.

[KateR]

thought about starting the thread and waited, I did expect numerous responses to the outcome but just maybe the virus is overshadowing virtually everything just now.

It seems on the surface to be a good budget but have not really digested it fully but seems better than previous years and going in the right direction on first blush.

[houseboy]

At this point I would normally be ranting about 'the bloody Tories' but to be fair this is not a bad looking budget. The change in national insurance won't help me though because even though I work I now get state pension so I don't pay NI any more, but that's my problem. Just hope they can fund it all but on balance not a bad budget.

Given my natural left-wing leanings this is indeed praise for the government but I have to be fair - decent job.

[KateR]

I think the spending on environmental and allocating money for electric cars is a big mistake and they have not looked far enough into the future as personally I don't see electric cars being the answer but it is a stepping stone and better that we move away from petrol & diesel as soon as possible.

[Colburn_Claret]

For a budget it looks a good one. For a Tory budget it looks excellent.
The biggest issue is will it meet the expected targets, so much especially the Coronavirus kitty, is an unknown cost, but I do trust the Tories to be more capable of balancing the budget than the other parties.
I think it also shows that Boris is his own man, and isn't in the pocket of any particular side of the Tory party, which hopefully is better for the country as a whole.
I like the idea of out branching the Treasury, it can only be a good thing for the country outside the southern bubble. It should enable all areas to be heard without having to shout so loudly.

[Erasmus]

I actually thought Jeremy Corbyn gave a very good response in which he highlighted the failure of austerity over the past ten years and the fact that the real hardship it had caused was a result of deliberate government policy. I didn't appreciate Johnson, Sunak and Priti Patel sitting there sniggering whilst he made his points, particularly when he referred to an individual who had starved to death on Universal Credit.

I also didn't know that Rishi Sunak had previously worked for Goldman Sachs, probably the most disreputable organisation operating in the financial sector. From what I have heard the employees of Goldman Sachs have a foul reputation for their lack of basic morality. Ask the Greeks.

[Cryssys]

There is a lot to be said for this budget. It shows that borrowing money when interest rates are low and spending it on infrastructure projects is the right thing to do. What’s disappointing is that it has taken 10 years for the government to realise this.

What they are now borrowing/spending dwarfs the spending plans put forward in the Labour manifesto. They've stolen the labour parties clothes and then some. If Labour had put forward the kind of borrowing plans the Tories are now proposing they would have been savaged.

Remember all those on here who ridiculed labours spending plans. Where will the money come from they cried, who is going to pay for it? Labour driving the country into debt. Labour, good at spending other people’s money. Labour, bankrupting the country.

Yet here we have a Tory party borrowing huge amounts of money and increasing debt and suddenly it’s a good idea.

Can’t wait to see the two faced, hypocritical headlines tomorrow.

[Holtyclaret]

Very good budget, thought the labour response was grabbing at straws, the country needs to be looking forward now.

[ewanrob]

Once again, done sod all for all the Carers out there, it's a disgrace.

[Cryssys]

Very good budget, thought the labour response was grabbing at straws, the country needs to be looking forward now.

And what did you have to say about Labours plan to borrow more money and spend it on infrastructure projects. Were you supportive?

Or were you one of those saying their plans were unrealistic, unaffordable and would bankrupt the country?

[TheFamilyCat]

"Transport, infrastructure and housing

More than £600bn is set to be spent"

That'll cover HS2.

[AndrewJB]

Cryssys has just covered a lot of what I was going to write. If the Mail, Telegraph, Express, etc were so concerned about the further accumulation of public debt under Labour, during the last election, then they should be foaming at the mouth about this budget. We know of course that they won't. Most newspapers don't inform their readers, but deliver Tory propaganda.

I've said before that infrastructure spending is a better way to get an economy going (than tax cuts), but balancing the books to a reasonable level is also good. I love the fact the Tories have done a U-turn on their flagship policy of the last ten years, finally coming to their senses on the issue (though how much of the austerity on the poor they'll reverse is still open to question). But their ruinous spending cuts of the last ten years were also combined with very big tax cuts for the rich - so how Johnson intends to fund his spending without reversing those tax cuts is a perfectly reasonable question. He has to hope that the stimulus created by the infrastructure spending is enough that the economy grows faster than the debt he creates. The rationale behind the tax cuts was that the money would be reinvested into our economy, but there's little evidence this happened. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to learn that most of it ended in offshore bank accounts. So the next part of Johnson's leftward journey will be to reverse those cuts to bolster the exchequer and at least break even on our day to day spending. That would be the real test of how much he's his "own man".

[Cirrus_Minor]

Cryssys has just covered a lot of what I was going to write. If the Mail, Telegraph, Express, etc were so concerned about the further accumulation of public debt under Labour, during the last election, then they should be foaming at the mouth about this budget. We know of course that they won't. Most newspapers don't inform their readers, but deliver Tory propaganda.

Absolutely spot on.

Also highlights a dismal failure of applying austerity over the last ten years and putting millions of people into unnecessary misery.

[Lowbankclaret]

I think the spending on environmental and allocating money for electric cars is a big mistake and they have not looked far enough into the future as personally I don't see electric cars being the answer but it is a stepping stone and better that we move away from petrol & diesel as soon as possible.

Whilst I agree.
I saw a feature on Bloomberg a few weeks ago.

The company who produce the propulsion system for formula E are set to release a new electric car.

They claim it will do 450 miles on one charge, to me that’s game changing.

Virtually nothing to service and you can go to the extents of the uk on one charge.

[bfcjg]

For all our sakes I hope the budget works. I like the chancellor he's definitely a one nation tory and I think this budget shows that.

[Holtyclaret]

And what did you have to say about Labours plan to borrow more money and spend it on infrastructure projects. Were you supportive?

Or were you one of those saying their plans were unrealistic, unaffordable and would bankrupt the country?
[/quote

I wouldn’t trust the current Labour Party with my own mediocre shopping budget.

[Cryssys]

Yet you trust the tories led by a egotistical liar who tells you what you want to hear. Not very bright are you?

[Vino blanco]

Cryssis wins the prize for being the first to pour out his vitriol on our Prime Minister. Well done, sir!

[Colburn_Claret]

Yet you trust the tories led by a egotistical liar who tells you what you want to hear. Not very bright are you?

A liar says one thing and does another.
Boris told the majority what they wanted to hear, and so far has stuck to his word.
I'm not saying you're not bright, but you're definitely blinkered. Time will tell us the truth, but since his election, as leader, which is all that matters to me, he hasn't made any promises that he hasn't stuck to. Whether on Brexit, dealing with the EU, or delivering a one nation Toryism.
At least remove the blinkers until you have something to call him on.

[AndrewJB]

You won't trust a party that costed its spending plans, which would have taken back control and made us owners of valuable assets (costed, apart from the WASPI women payout), yet you do trust a party that spent ten years cutting spending, selling off our assets, and is now proposing to borrow massively, to partially fix the damage it created in the first place?

To break it down, Labour planned to borrow up to £58 Billion to pay back women who had been basically ripped off on their pensions - so you don't trust them. But you think this Tory budget, which involves £600 Billion of borrowing is a good thing? At least with the Labour plan we'd own the things we're investing in. The billions the Tories are promising for broadband are going to make the companies that own the networks more profitable. Your tax money pays for the upgrade, and you pay again afterward!

In a nutshell: You don't trust the party that has stood against austerity for the last four and a half years, saying "it doesn't work"; but you do trust the party that brought in austerity, and now is turning full circle against it - four and a half years after the party you don't trust pointed all of this out?

When the NHS was created, it was far far more expensive than nationalising broadband and making it free at point of use. Thank goodness our ancestors had a better grasp of politics, the issues, and their own self interest than we do today. What is doubly galling for me is that many members of the current government are on record as wanting a more user-pay NHS. I would hate it, but it wouldn't surprise me to see part of the next election fought over bringing back sold off parts of the NHS to public ownership - and the press screaming about how it's "too expensive".

[Vino blanco]

Well done Andrew, you've written a lengthy four paragraph political post without mentioning the 'right wing press'. That's got to be a first for you.

[Stayingup]

I actually thought Jeremy Corbyn gave a very good response in which he highlighted the failure of austerity over the past ten years and the fact that the real hardship it had caused was a result of deliberate government policy. I didn't appreciate Johnson, Sunak and Priti Patel sitting there sniggering whilst he made his points, particularly when he referred to an individual who had starved to death on Universal Credit.

I also didn't know that Rishi Sunak had previously worked for Goldman Sachs, probably the most disreputable organisation operating in the financial sector. From what I have heard the employees of Goldman Sachs have a foul reputation for their lack of basic morality. Ask the Greeks.

Did you realize that Corbyn worked on Iranian TV? One of the most corrupt/ evil regines in the world?

Austerity as you call it might not have been needed had the last labour chancellor not announced , with truth, theres nothing left in the coffers. Do you recall Darling saying that. I do. He was telling the truth. Unusual but it was.

[Blackrod]

Good budget well delivered ( and particularly under the circumstances) by Rishi Sunak.

[Vino blanco]

Sunak could be a future PM.

[Gordaleman]

Was watching Mark Carney at lunchtime and he said the Bank of England has made up to and possibly more than £300 billion available. They'd already calculated into their sums occasions such as this. Should be enough to tide us over. Considering the circumstances the only thing I am unhappy about is giving Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland money. They have their own parliament's.

Well if Wales, N. Ireland and Scotland had total autonomy on spending, I might agree with you, but they don't.

[Holtyclaret]

Yet you trust the tories led by a egotistical liar who tells you what you want to hear. Not very bright are you?

Typical ‘manic lefty who thinks folk that don’t agree with you are all thick’ are you?

[AndrewJB]

A liar says one thing and does another.
Boris told the majority what they wanted to hear, and so far has stuck to his word.
I'm not saying you're not bright, but you're definitely blinkered. Time will tell us the truth, but since his election, as leader, which is all that matters to me, he hasn't made any promises that he hasn't stuck to. Whether on Brexit, dealing with the EU, or delivering a one nation Toryism.
At least remove the blinkers until you have something to call him on.

"I'd rather die in a ditch..." - we all remember that one surely. He made his promises about leaving the EU on 31st October during the Tory leadership election. Not a single one of his opponents would make the same guarantee, because they knew it would be a lie. He was willing to lie.

On Brexit - voting against Theresa May's deal, which maintained the unity of the UK, and instead bringing in his own deal which is much worse - border down the Irish Sea? He's since said "there will be no border down the Irish Sea", but there patently is! Do you want me to link the clip in which he said he's "never told a lie in politics"?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 25601.html

Okay - I just did, in case you needed evidence.

His "oven ready deal" was Theresa May's deal, but with a few more UK concessions to the EU.

He's a joke. You didn't have him as mayor, so you were unaware of his failings as a leader - but for you to dismiss them is odd, considering you always bring up the things Corbyn supposedly did when he was just the MP for a London constituency.

[Holtyclaret]

You won't trust a party that costed its spending plans, which would have taken back control and made us owners of valuable assets (costed, apart from the WASPI women payout), yet you do trust a party that spent ten years cutting spending, selling off our assets, and is now proposing to borrow massively, to partially fix the damage it created in the first place?

To break it down, Labour planned to borrow up to £58 Billion to pay back women who had been basically ripped off on their pensions - so you don't trust them. But you think this Tory budget, which involves £600 Billion of borrowing is a good thing? At least with the Labour plan we'd own the things we're investing in. The billions the Tories are promising for broadband are going to make the companies that own the networks more profitable. Your tax money pays for the upgrade, and you pay again afterward!

In a nutshell: You don't trust the party that has stood against austerity for the last four and a half years, saying "it doesn't work"; but you do trust the party that brought in austerity, and now is turning full circle against it - four and a half years after the party you don't trust pointed all of this out?

When the NHS was created, it was far far more expensive than nationalising broadband and making it free at point of use. Thank goodness our ancestors had a better grasp of politics, the issues, and their own self interest than we do today. What is doubly galling for me is that many members of the current government are on record as wanting a more user-pay NHS. I would hate it, but it wouldn't surprise me to see part of the next election fought over bringing back sold off parts of the NHS to public ownership - and the press screaming about how it's "too expensive".

Big bloody nutshell, time to get over the election result by now isn’t it?

No I don’t trust the absolute mess of a party labour are, must gall you watching the Torys getting stuff done.

[RingoMcCartney]

Typical ‘manic lefty who thinks folk that don’t agree with you are all thick’ are you?

The "liberal" Left-

Claim to LOVE diversity.

Yet, they HATE diversity of opinion.

[Gordaleman]

You won't trust a party that costed its spending plans, which would have taken back control and made us owners of valuable assets (costed, apart from the WASPI women payout), yet you do trust a party that spent ten years cutting spending, selling off our assets, and is now proposing to borrow massively, to partially fix the damage it created in the first place?

To break it down, Labour planned to borrow up to £58 Billion to pay back women who had been basically ripped off on their pensions - so you don't trust them. But you think this Tory budget, which involves £600 Billion of borrowing is a good thing? At least with the Labour plan we'd own the things we're investing in. The billions the Tories are promising for broadband are going to make the companies that own the networks more profitable. Your tax money pays for the upgrade, and you pay again afterward!

In a nutshell: You don't trust the party that has stood against austerity for the last four and a half years, saying "it doesn't work"; but you do trust the party that brought in austerity, and now is turning full circle against it - four and a half years after the party you don't trust pointed all of this out?

When the NHS was created, it was far far more expensive than nationalising broadband and making it free at point of use. Thank goodness our ancestors had a better grasp of politics, the issues, and their own self interest than we do today. What is doubly galling for me is that many members of the current government are on record as wanting a more user-pay NHS. I would hate it, but it wouldn't surprise me to see part of the next election fought over bringing back sold off parts of the NHS to public ownership - and the press screaming about how it's "too expensive".

Couldn't agree more.

Two major banks caused the 2007 financial crisis according to a report by the US government. One was Deutche Bank and the other Goldman Sachs. Rishi Sunak (Our Chancellor) worked for Goldmann Sachs and his predecessor Sajid Javid worked for Deutch Bank where he was involved in a tax haven scandal involving the Cayman Islands. Are they really the sort of people to be looking after the poor? I think not.

In 2010, the when interest rates were as low as they are now, the Labour Party wanted to borrow money and rebuild the country's infrastructure. They were howled down by the Tories who said same old Labour, borrow and wreck the country. Instead, they embarked on a political choice of ten years of austerity which destroyed thousands of lives and led to thousands of unnecessary deaths. It also left our infrastructure another ten years out of date.

Now, the Tories are borrowing so much, that the country is likely to be in big trouble in the next few years, especially if interest rates rise again. (And they're unlikely to fall from .25%) After ten years, they still haven't paid back the debt the financial crisis left them with, even though they promised to pay it back in one parliament, and now they're adding hundreds of billions to it.

Why doesn't the electorate learn something?

[RingoMcCartney]

Today's budget should be the start of cementing the Tories into what was Labour's "Red Wall" that turned Blue in December.

And looking at the predictable comments from our resident gaggle of lefties. The prevailing attitude amongst them, that those who had the temerity to vote Tory, are just , "thick" easily lead gullible "sheep" , who've been "radicalised" by the right wing media. Means , with attitudes like that. After already clocking up 10 years out of power. Labour can look forward to , probably, another 10 years in the political wilderness.

Reasons to be cheerful.

[Vino blanco]

Because the electorate aren't all left wing loonies, like some on here, Gordaleman.

[RingoMcCartney]

Because the electorate aren't all left wing loonies, like some on here, Gordaleman.

Steady! You'll be branded "a racist"

[AndrewJB]

Well done Andrew, you've written a lengthy four paragraph political post without mentioning the 'right wing press'. That's got to be a first for you.

Mr White Wine - your name loses part of its charm in the post brexit melieu - but this is where we are. You are the amazing person who supports the Tories having not read a right wing newspaper for a very long time. I suppose it must have been their manifesto - hardly anything, so you're probably appalled by their spending plans now.

How are you informed?

[Vino blanco]

Tv news programmes, which I watch from time to time.

[RingoMcCartney]

Tv news programmes, which I watch from time to time.

Tread carefully Vino. I believe you could be dealing with someone suffering from a clear case of chloephobia.

Go easy on the poor chap.

[Gordaleman]

Mr White Wine - your name loses part of its charm in the post brexit melieu - but this is where we are. You are the amazing person who supports the Tories having not read a right wing newspaper for a very long time. I suppose it must have been their manifesto - hardly anything, so you're probably appalled by their spending plans now.

How are you informed?

I think his Mummy must tell him Fairy stories before he goes to bed each night.

[Vino blanco]

I'm afraid my Mummy died some years ago, Gordaleman , but you'll be pleased to know she was a staunch Conservative supporter.

[Gordaleman]

I'm afraid my Mummy died some years ago, Gordaleman , but you'll be pleased to know she was a staunch Conservative supporter.

Well, I'm sorry to hear that. Who's telling you Fairy stories now then?

[AndrewJB]

Did you realize that Corbyn worked on Iranian TV? One of the most corrupt/ evil regines in the world?

Austerity as you call it might not have been needed had the last labour chancellor not announced , with truth, theres nothing left in the coffers. Do you recall Darling saying that. I do. He was telling the truth. Unusual but it was.

Austerity might not have been needed - had there been no world financial crisis? The Labour government already dealt with the crisis, and the economy was already doing better. Then came the tories and the country descended into crap. The cuts were aimed at poor people, and nobody else.

Iran is by no means perfect, but Corbyn was allowed to speak freely. When Johnson went to Saudi, do you think he was allowed to speak freely? Which country is more democratic, and which is more "our friend"? One guess!

[AndrewJB]

Big bloody nutshell, time to get over the election result by now isn’t it?

No I don’t trust the absolute mess of a party labour are, must gall you watching the Torys getting stuff done.

The Tories aren't actually getting anything done though, are they? Brexit? Far from done. And Austerity? Far from over. As for your trust - you put it in a party that wrecked the economy, and now say they'll fix it - let's see how that one goes.

[AndrewJB]

Today's budget should be the start of cementing the Tories into what was Labour's "Red Wall" that turned Blue in December.

And looking at the predictable comments from our resident gaggle of lefties. The prevailing attitude amongst them, that those who had the temerity to vote Tory, are just , "thick" easily lead gullible "sheep" , who've been "radicalised" by the right wing media. Means , with attitudes like that. After already clocking up 10 years out of power. Labour can look forward to , probably, another 10 years in the political wilderness.

Reasons to be cheerful.

What reasons are there in the Tory budget for us to be cheerful? And how will they pay for it?

[RingoMcCartney]

What reasons are there in the Tory budget for us to be cheerful? And how will they pay for it?

Another 10 years of labour in the political wilderness.

What's not to like!?

[Gordaleman]

What reasons are there in the Tory budget for us to be cheerful? And how will they pay for it?

Don't forget that a lot of today's spending plans, or at least the money for them, has been announced previously. It's an old trick of their's to make the electorate think they are doing more than they actually are. Hospital money, nurse money, HS2 money. I'll almost guantee that Northern Crossrail never gets off the ground.

[Cryssys]

Cryssis wins the prize for being the first to pour out his vitriol on our Prime Minister. Well done, sir!

Thank you, but I'm afraid I can't accept that accolade.

People have been pouring vitriol on Boris for many, many years now. I'm not the first and I certainly won't be the last.

Please try and keep up.

[Cryssys]

A liar says one thing and does another.
Boris told the majority what they wanted to hear, and so far has stuck to his word.

I'm not saying you're not bright, but you're definitely blinkered. Time will tell us the truth, but since his election, as leader, which is all that matters to me, he hasn't made any promises that he hasn't stuck to. Whether on Brexit, dealing with the EU, or delivering a one nation Toryism.
At least remove the blinkers until you have something to call him on.

I'm no more blinkered than you are. You support one team, I support another. If you removed your blinkers you would realise that

• He promised an independent inquiry into racism on the Tory Party and then shelved it.

• He promised to release the report into Russian interference in UK election - he hasn't.

• He promised EU residents living in the UK that nothing would change, that they would automatically be able to remain. They can't

• He promised to raise the minimum wage to £10.50/hr. by 2024 He has now said that will only happen if "economic conditions allow it"

That's four broken promises for you. There are more examples but the above amply demonstrate that he continues to lie and break his promises.

Boris is a serial liar and has twice been sacked for lying. Leopards don't change their spots.

[Cryssys]

Typical ‘manic lefty who thinks folk that don’t agree with you are all thick’ are you?

No. I think that people who refuse to acknowledge the truth are not very bright. That includes you by the way.

[Holtyclaret]

cant begin to tell you how sad that makes me, an opinionated shouty crank thinks I’m not bright