Let's not forget homeless people in all this

[Spijed]

They deserve as much care and attention as anyone else:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-520271 ... e-pandemic

[Jakubclaret]

I feel sympathy for the genuine ones, but some will be that inebriated or off there heads, there won’t be conscious of the virus & numb to any side effects, when you live on the streets you become hardened to it all, I expect the hostels & refuges will have awareness campaigns in motion, to be honest fighting a damaging drug addiction for some the virus will be the least of there problems.

[FactualFrank]

I feel sympathy for the genuine ones.

Me too.

[boatshed bill]

How can they be anything but "genuinely" homeless?

[Jakubclaret]

How can they be anything but "genuinely" homeless?

It’s a Pandora’s box, some prefer that way of life & can never fit into normal society through whatever reasons often troubling upbringings & drugs, it’s extremely complex, some not all prefer living on the streets & have done for that long there know no different.

[Cirrus_Minor]

I feel sympathy for all of them.

[boatshed bill]

It’s a Pandora’s box, some prefer that way of life & can never fit into normal society through whatever reasons often troubling upbringings & drugs, it’s extremely complex, some not all prefer living on the streets & have done for that long there know no different.

Yes, but they are still genuinely homeless. Some of these poor people don't see the choice.
Now, genuine travellers (there are very few now) are different, and certainly don't need sympathy.

[Jakubclaret]

Yes, but they are still genuinely homeless. Some of these poor people don't see the choice.
Now, genuine travellers (there are very few now) are different, and certainly don't need sympathy.

It’s difficult for me to feel sorry for people who do choose a way of life which isn’t beneficial, for 1s that don’t choose I do. I wouldn’t feel sorry for a serial shoplifter choosing to steal to benefit. Some homeless people even if you was to offer them a house there would turn it down, there choose to live that way not all do.

[boatshed bill]

It’s difficult for me to feel sorry for people who do choose a way of life which isn’t beneficial, for 1s that don’t choose I do. I wouldn’t feel sorry for a serial shoplifter choosing to steal to benefit. Some homeless people even if you was to offer them a house there would turn it down, there choose to live that way not all do.

So often through mental issues. Don't judge these people by what you see.

[Taffy on the wing]

I feel sympathy for the genuine ones, but some will be that inebriated or off there heads, there won’t be conscious of the virus & numb to any side effects, when you live on the streets you become hardened to it all, I expect the hostels & refuges will have awareness campaigns in motion, to be honest fighting a damaging drug addiction for some the virus will be the least of there problems.

If you lived on the streets you'd get inebriated too! Try to put yourself in their shoes.

[No Ney Never]

As they say, some people are only a wage away from being homeless. Let's see what the aftermath of this lockdown brings.

[MalaysiaMo]

Must be difficult to self-isolate in a refugee camp. I haven't seen much on the news recently about the incidence of COVID-19 among refugees cramped together in refugee camps. Or much on the news about refugees in general, despite only a few months ago being given the distinct impression by some news channels that refugees were the greatest imaginable threat to civilisation as we know it .....

[Bfcboyo]

How can they be anything but "genuinely" homeless?

If you watched the BBC documentary last year there are fake homeless people pretending mixed with the genuine homeless on the streets. In this case they are not genuinely homeless obviously.

[mdd2]

Terrible to make value judgements BUT some of the pics from Piccadilly gardens yesterday show folks not social distancing, not single or in twos, but making personal contact. In fact doing all that has to be avoided. I recognise some of them as homeless I have met and they will be more likely to get this bug and more likely to spread it around to others including the people who are there to help them because many do not comply with the medical care they need and are offered. They are and will remain difficult to care for and will by their multiple co-morbidities including poor nutrition suffer disproportionately to their age matched folk who have a home. Giving them a home will not alter those stats.

[NottsClaret]

Spare a thought for the nation’s drug dealers. Going to be feeling it more than anyone. Hopefully Rishi Sunak announces something for them today.

[Jakubclaret]

If you lived on the streets you'd get inebriated too! Try to put yourself in their shoes.

I doubt it'd get too that stage & don't think imagining myself in there shoes is helpful, I'm not a callous ba**ard with them, in past when I've had money I've bought them a pasty & coffee from Gregg's, as already mentioned elsewhere on this thread, some aren't genuine & just trying it on, watching 1 programme I think 1 of them used to park his mercedes for the day change into scruffy clothes & then beg, you can't tar all with the same brush & I help when I can.

[Heathclaret]

I doubt it'd get too that stage & don't think imagining myself in there shoes is helpful, I'm not a callous ba**ard with them, in past when I've had money I've bought them a pasty & coffee from Gregg's, as already mentioned elsewhere on this thread, some aren't genuine & just trying it on, watching 1 programme I think 1 of them used to park his mercedes for the day change into scruffy clothes & then beg, you can't tar all with the same brush & I help when I can.

I understand what you’re saying Jakub, but the topic is the homeless, not beggars.

A couple of years ago I visited the local police station, to lodge a complaint against someone who was harassing me, my wife and I met a homeless woman there, my wife started talking to her, we found out that she had been released from prison with no provision of accommodation and was living in a tent on common ground. She was at the police station trying to get help as she was extremely frightened, she was being attacked by homeless men on a daily basis. Her tent had been targeted the previous night by two men. The police knew her and were extremely sympathetic to her situation and were doing their best to find somewhere for her to stay. She was trying to turn her life around, but with no address she had no future.
I realise that some are so far down the line of addiction and lawlessness that it would take a monumental effort and cost to get them back to civilised life but the increase of homeless people is not just their fault, but the fault of a careless society. There are many ex servicemen on the streets, some who suffer from PTSD, that, surely, is a shameful statistic.

[Devils_Advocate]

The fake ones by definition are not homeless then and are not at risk cos they can just stop pretending to be homeless. These people have nothing to do with the OPs original post and are just being used by some to held defend their ignorance and/or complete lack of empathy towards the homeless

[boatshed bill]

If you watched the BBC documentary last year there are fake homeless people pretending mixed with the genuine homeless on the streets. In this case they are not genuinely homeless obviously.

Then those are not homeless are they?

[Jakubclaret]

I understand what you’re saying Jakub, but the topic is the homeless, not beggars.

A couple of years ago I visited the local police station, to lodge a complaint against someone who was harassing me, my wife and I met a homeless woman there, my wife started talking to her, we found out that she had been released from prison with no provision of accommodation and was living in a tent on common ground. She was at the police station trying to get help as she was extremely frightened, she was being attacked by homeless men on a daily basis. Her tent had been targeted the previous night by two men. The police knew her and were extremely sympathetic to her situation and were doing their best to find somewhere for her to stay. She was trying to turn her life around, but with no address she had no future.
I realise that some are so far down the line of addiction and lawlessness that it would take a monumental effort and cost to get them back to civilised life but the increase of homeless people is not just their fault, but the fault of a careless society. There are many ex servicemen on the streets, some who suffer from PTSD, that, surely, is a shameful statistic.

The 2 usually go hand in hand, I think I'll have a wet shave without using a shaving stick/foam.

[Jakubclaret]

Then those are not homeless are they?

The point I think he's making the general public aren't aware either way, he could have a car parked around the corner & a nice residential home equally he could be sleeping rough in shop doorways or under bridge's, the public are none no wiser either way & just assume. The public give without knowing the truth.

[boatshed bill]

Like the OP says, "let's not forget the homeless" they must be having a really bad time.
The OP is not talking about beggars, con men etc, just the genuinely homeless.

[Jakubclaret]

The fake ones by definition are not homeless then and are not at risk cos they can just stop pretending to be homeless. These people have nothing to do with the OPs original post and are just being used by some to held defend their ignorance and/or complete lack of empathy towards the homeless

You must be blessed with some sort of supernatural powers if you can honestly assess & differentiate between genuine people & non genuine people whilst out & about in the cities/towns, it's part of the OP explaining the reluctance for people to help & why people are cautious towards the homeless/beggars, the fact that some are funding a drug habit is why I buy food for them knowing that I'm not paying for heroin/spice ect. You could go on all day why people have a variety of different attitudes towards the homeless/beggars.

[Devils_Advocate]

You must be blessed with some sort of supernatural powers if you can honestly assess & differentiate between genuine people & non genuine people whilst out & about in the cities/towns, it's part of the OP explaining the reluctance for people to help & why people are cautious towards the homeless/beggars, the fact that some are funding a drug habit is why I buy food for them knowing that I'm not paying for heroin/spice ect. You could go on all day why people have a variety of different attitudes towards the homeless/beggars.

I don't need to assess and differentiate anything to have some concern and compassion towards homeless people. There are charities and people out there who work closely with the homeless and understand them a lot better than me and you.

When we look at where we can direct our effort, resources and money to protect people this is one set of people that we should not forget about.

I remember previous posts involving you on the homeless problem and you are just very ignorant on the subject. This discussion however isn't about the homeless issue per se, its just about making sure those who have the expertise to help and protect them through this crisis are given our support and not forgotten.

With that in mind when it comes to this topic just do us all a favour and have a day off

[Jakubclaret]

I don't need to assess and differentiate anything to have some concern and compassion towards homeless people. There are charities and people out there who work closely with the homeless and understand them a lot better than me and you.

When we look at where we can direct our effort, resources and money to protect people this is one set of people that we should not forget about.

I remember previous posts involving you on the homeless problem and you are just very ignorant on the subject. This discussion however isn't about the homeless issue per se, its just about making sure those who have the expertise to help and protect them through this crisis are given our support and not forgotten.

With that in mind when it comes to this topic just do us all a favour and have a day off

I've worked helping the homeless people (over 20years ago) back then in terms of recreational drugs the selection of was limited, the butane gas & tipp ex has been replaced with the spice & other synethic drugs, some of the problems are still the same, at the moment there's nothing much we can do help them we aren't even allowed out of our homes unless it's essential, we aren't even supposed to be visiting close friends nevermind contact with strangers, when this is all over we'll all be in a better position to help them the genuine people who need our help.

[Devils_Advocate]

Look up key workers you idiot, it isn't gonna be me or you going anywhere near them.

[Heathclaret]

The 2 usually go hand in hand, I think I'll have a wet shave without using a shaving stick/foam.

I think you’re being unnecessarily argumentative. No one has said that there aren’t fake beggars, the topic is about the homeless. There are a lot of genuine homeless people, they are vulnerable to the virus. I believe that some homeless have been offered rooms in a hotel in London during this crisis.

Sometimes a softening of the heart can be a good experience, but always keep a healthy pinch of cynicism for balance.

Balance is the key.

[Jakubclaret]

Look up key workers you idiot, it isn't gonna be me or you going anywhere near them.

I realise that, but the fact remains non key workers complying with current rules wouldn't be in a position to help, assuming you are a non key worker I know i am.

[Dy1geo]

The report on the news of homeless in London yesterday was frightening and you feel sorry for them as they have major issues and no one chooses to live like that and I will help.

It is those people like the guy in Burnley who sits in the coldest spot near the old Leo’s car park who begs only “when the shops are open” that I quite frankly will not help and should be moved on.

[Devils_Advocate]

I realise that, but the fact remains non key workers complying with current rules wouldn't be in a position to help, assuming you are a non key worker I know i am.

You've not been asked to help apart from to have some compassion for them and help keep up awareness of their plight.

[Jakubclaret]

You've not been asked to help apart from to have some compassion for them and help keep up awareness of their plight.

Never said I did

[AndrewJB]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus - Not sure whether this has been rectified yet, as there was talk the government were in discussion with Travelodge, but beyond closing, doing so with only a few hours notice is bad form.

[Taffy on the wing]

I think you’re being unnecessarily argumentative. No one has said that there aren’t fake beggars, the topic is about the homeless. There are a lot of genuine homeless people, they are vulnerable to the virus. I believe that some homeless have been offered rooms in a hotel in London during this crisis.

Sometimes a softening of the heart can be a good experience, but always keep a healthy pinch of cynicism for balance.

Balance is the key.

I don't think he has a heart!.........His mind has been made up for him by one TV program, & that's that.

[Jakubclaret]

I don't think he has a heart!.........His mind has been made up for him by one TV program, & that's that.

If I didn't have a heart I wouldn't be buying them occasional pastys & coffees, it's extremely complex the situation involving homeless people every individual is different to why & how they've ended up on the streets, mental health plays a massive part & more does need to be done on a government & local level to tackle the problem, believe it or not the weather we will be approaching soon some wouldn't swap for all the tea in China come winter it's far different.

[Devils_Advocate]

I don't think he has a heart!.........His mind has been made up for him by one TV program, & that's that.

I think he's more of a scarecrow than a tinman

[thatdberight]

All to be housed by local authorities by the weekend. Not sure that'll work but probably has to be said.

Most of those people didn't end up there through some freak combination of family, work or personal circumstances. They ended up there because their lives are chaotic, a chaos which has its roots in their behaviour. That's without getting into an argument about whether that behaviour is their responsibility or whether everything can be medically explained.

[AndrewJB]

All to be housed by local authorities by the weekend. Not sure that'll work but probably has to be said.

Most of those people didn't end up there through some freak combination of family, work or personal circumstances. They ended up there because their lives are chaotic, a chaos which has its roots in their behaviour. That's without getting into an argument about whether that behaviour is their responsibility or whether everything can be medically explained.

People bang on about personal choice, but often forget circumstance.

[thatdberight]

People bang on about personal choice, but often forget circumstance.

People bang on about circumstance, but often forget personal responsibility. One not very useful generalisation begets another.

[AndrewJB]

People bang on about circumstance, but often forget personal responsibility. One not very useful generalisation begets another.

Yet it’s the first generalisation we most often see practised by people commenting on issues like poverty. People who actually work with the disadvantaged fully know that to get someone (or a community) back on their feet, building self esteem (and anti-addiction toolkit) to the point at which the person no longer makes bad choices is absolutely key to that persons future success. Nobody who works with the poor bangs on about circumstance without considering personal responsibility.

[thatdberight]

Yet it’s the first generalisation we most often see practised by people commenting on issues like poverty. People who actually work with the disadvantaged fully know that to get someone (or a community) back on their feet, building self esteem (and anti-addiction toolkit) to the point at which the person no longer makes bad choices is absolutely key to that persons future success. Nobody who works with the poor bangs on about circumstance without considering personal responsibility.

My point was narrow - that this will be very difficult to make work. Very few, if any, of these people have not been through some sort, or several rounds, of intervention that could have seen them in a different place now. Housing those people together is likely to be very difficult and potentially fruitless.