Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

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Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by HunterST_BFC » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:43 am

Times past if you saw Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence it would have meant shame.

But given the choice today (min 3 weeks to happen) it might be about actually living / living longer.
Not a longer schlonga.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52043767

Everything is going even more Heath Robinson lately.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Burnley1989 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:52 am

I’ve visited the site and they’re in a fantastic position to manufacture something like this due to the way the lines set up, very good choice

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:05 am

Any idea when they'll shift production out to the far east like he's done for a lot of his products?

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:14 am

Seen a lot of comments of twitter by remainers that this is just a way to funnel money to brexit companies and they are really not happy about it.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by evensteadiereddie » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:29 am

I tripped, honest.
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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Tricky Trevor » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:29 am

Not sure about the brexit comment above but Dyson will make plenty with what he charges.

And are they being made in Asia? Where all this sh!t started.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by mdd2 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:55 am

Read it is being made in Wiltshire

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by dsr » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:10 am

How badly do you have to hate someone to have a go at him for supplying life-saving equipment?
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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:11 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:14 am
Seen a lot of comments of twitter by remainers that this is just a way to funnel money to brexit companies and they are really not happy about it.
On the back of that Newsnight programme apparently last night. Some guy who’s company makes Ventilators claims he asked them if he needs to make more and they didn’t get back to him originally.

Surely the solution would be to ask both his company and Dyson to start making as many as possible as soon as possible seeing as we are so short?
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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Burnley1989 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:49 am

dsr wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:10 am
How badly do you have to hate someone to have a go at him for supplying life-saving equipment?
:shock: Exactly! There are people in life that will find fault in everything.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Silkyskills1 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:57 am

Sorry, but I'm an older fan and when I saw the thread title I thought immediately of Spurs' Terry Dyson and his confrontation with Adam Blacklaw back in '63. Could have been nasty had Adam caught him.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by TVC15 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:57 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:11 am
On the back of that Newsnight programme apparently last night. Some guy who’s company makes Ventilators claims he asked them if he needs to make more and they didn’t get back to him originally.

Surely the solution would be to ask both his company and Dyson to start making as many as possible as soon as possible seeing as we are so short?
I saw the same type of story on the news about the manufacturer of PPE who had contacted the government and been declined and they are making PPE for lots of other countries.
But then I took a step back and thought there is probably 2 sides to the story and there could be a good reason why the government are not prepared to deal with these companies.
Dyson have the skills, resources and infrastructure to do this better than any British Company - we know the initial volume to be made is 10k but I am sure they are in discussions with Dyson and maybe other companies about making more.

It’s a good thing - and not sure Dyson should be criticised for moving some of their manufacturing to China when most of the world has done the same. The people having a dig probably have no idea how many people Dyson employ in the UK and the size of their offices in the UK - they are an incredible company...a world leader in research and dev
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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by LeadBelly » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:05 pm

Dyson has a site site at Hullavington (near Malmesbury) , it was the HQ until that, controversially, moved to Singapore a year or so ago. That's where these ventilators would be made.
The idea is to quickly make 10,000 for NHS and also donate 5000 to health services worlwide (including 1000 to UK).
Hopefully this goes ahead (they'll have to skip round patents/licences etc I guess) and, if so, his company will deserve to make a few bob.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:23 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:57 am
I saw the same type of story on the news about the manufacturer of PPE who had contacted the government and been declined and they are making PPE for lots of other countries.
But then I took a step back and thought there is probably 2 sides to the story and there could be a good reason why the government are not prepared to deal with these companies.
Dyson have the skills, resources and infrastructure to do this better than any British Company - we know the initial volume to be made is 10k but I am sure they are in discussions with Dyson and maybe other companies about making more.

It’s a good thing - and not sure Dyson should be criticised for moving some of their manufacturing to China when most of the world has done the same. The people having a dig probably have no idea how many people Dyson employ in the UK and the size of their offices in the UK - they are an incredible company...a world leader in research and dev
Good post, TVC.

If I was a businessman. with something to sell and, maybe, just maybe, what I was selling wasn't very good or was just very expensive, maybe I would find a journalist to report that I'm ready to make and sell.... so why isn't the gov't buying? We all know that some of our media will be very quick to jump on this angle...

I'm happy to let the gov't/NHS procurement get on with buying what they need and making their decisions about the terms of purchases and who the suppliers are.

We all know Dyson makes hand dryers, vacuum cleaners and other "air movement" stuff. It seems it's a "natural fit" that Dyson is able to make ventilators, if they are in short supply. Let's hope these plans "go well." Many may be familiar with a 1980s/90s business expression: "no one ever got fired for buying IBM." If any of us is in need of a ventilator, I'm sure we'd want the quality to be "the best."

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:29 pm

LeadBelly wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:05 pm
Dyson has a site site at Hullavington (near Malmesbury) , it was the HQ until that, controversially, moved to Singapore a year or so ago. That's where these ventilators would be made.
The idea is to quickly make 10,000 for NHS and also donate 5000 to health services worlwide (including 1000 to UK).
Hopefully this goes ahead (they'll have to skip round patents/licences etc I guess) and, if so, his company will deserve to make a few bob.
I know nothing about ventilators, but maybe the "concept" of a ventilator can't be patented and, maybe, Dyson, already has the patents for the "internal workings" that are required to move the air around and make the ventilator work...

It would be an interesting "case study" to look at how Dyson has the ability, as a business, to quickly add the capability to build ventilators, whereas some other manufacturing business may have more hurdles to get over before they could do the same. From the outside, we might think that F1 car engineers, maybe car manufacturers, maybe aero engine manufactures amongst others could all be in this space. If Dyson has been picked, maybe they had an early advantage.

Just a thought, maybe one of the learnings from this is the ability of businesses to switch from their "day-to-day" activity to provide resources needed "in an emergency..."

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by LeadBelly » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:39 pm

I'm not sure how big the sites are for the F1-involved companies (who obviously have huge engineering expertise) but the Malmsbury site is very big and probably underutilised currently (given the move to SE Asia). A photo of the site in this article (reporting the HQ move early 2019)
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/new ... singapore/

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:52 pm

LeadBelly wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:39 pm
I'm not sure how big the sites are for the F1-involved companies (who obviously have huge engineering expertise) but the Malmsbury site is very big and probably underutilised currently (given the move to SE Asia). A photo of the site in this article (reporting the HQ move early 2019)
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/new ... singapore/
I think this site was earmarked for the research & development for Dyson's electric car - and they've now cancelled this project.

I doubt the ventilator manufacturing will be in the ex-HQ building - unless they cleared out all the offices etc.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:10 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:23 pm
Good post, TVC.

If I was a businessman. with something to sell and, maybe, just maybe, what I was selling wasn't very good or was just very expensive, maybe I would find a journalist to report that I'm ready to make and sell.... so why isn't the gov't buying? We all know that some of our media will be very quick to jump on this angle...
Interesting take Paul. With regards to Dyson then reports today suggest that Dyson have not had the regulatory approvals needed and unless they get them then no govt money will go to Dyson to secure this contract.

Its is thought that Dyson are putting out their plans to supply the NHS with thousands of ventilators into the media to put pressure on the govt to give them the approval so they can get the contract

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander hey Paul?

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by LeadBelly » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:19 pm

I also doubt they'll be using offices but, as you can see on the picture in the previously linked article, there are two ex-hangars there. I'd guess the smaller one is admin/ restaurants etc and the larger where they planned to do development/manufacture/testing etc. They'd planned a lot of activity at that site; from August 2018:
"Although only recruiting about 300 more automotive workers at present, planning details show the 45,000-square-metre site will ultimately have space for more than 2,000 people. In addition to the testing track, there will be a cafe, sports centre, recreation space and supporting technical facilities.

You can see from googlemaps that its a decent sized area (and far from maximum utilisation since the SE Asia move)
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Mal ... d-2.102834
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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:38 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:10 pm
Interesting take Paul. With regards to Dyson then reports today suggest that Dyson have not had the regulatory approvals needed and unless they get them then no govt money will go to Dyson to secure this contract.

Its is thought that Dyson are putting out their plans to supply the NHS with thousands of ventilators into the media to put pressure on the govt to give them the approval so they can get the contract

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander hey Paul?
Are you suggesting that I've been "mugged" by BBC News - that this is just "Dyson" puffery, DA?

Coronavirus: Government orders 10,000 ventilators from Dyson

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52043767

The order is still subject to the devices passing stringent medical tests but that is expected to happen quickly.

Dyson has had hundreds of engineers working round the clock to design the ventilators from scratch.

It is thought that even if regulatory approval is forthcoming, it could take a couple of weeks to move from prototype to the device being made in significant scale.


"It could take a couple of weeks....." A fantastic achievement if anyone can go from reg approval for prototype to ramp up to "significant scale." Two months, nay, 6 months, would often be a fantastic achievement.

EDIT: and, I'll post the report in The Times, below.
So long as Dyson is only getting paid for what is delivered - and works when delivered - what's not to like?

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:51 pm

The Times

Dyson to make 10,000 ventilators for NHS

Sir James Dyson will begin production within weeks of a new medical ventilator for coronavirus patients after signing a contract to produce 10,000 for the NHS.

Dyson is redirecting staff and resources to set up two production lines at a former wartime RAF base at Hullavington, Wiltshire, where the company had previously planned to manufacture an electric car.

The new CoVent machines, which can be used both in hospitals and by ambulance paramedics, will draw heavily on existing Dyson technology, including its digital motors and air purifier products.

More than 3,000 companies have responded to a call from Boris Johnson to produce thousands of ventilators to tackle the Covid 19 emergency.

Downing Street said that Britain was focusing on increasing domestic production, acquiring machines from private hospitals and importing ventilators from overseas suppliers. Britain is not part of an EU partnership to source ventilators and protective equipment.

Dyson in partnership with the technology group TTP and a large consortium under the banner VentilatorsChallenge UK are the lead manufacturing options.

Sir James announced his contract in a message to staff around the world yesterday evening. His research and design teams in different locations have been working round the clock with designers in one part of the world handing over to teams in other locations overnight.

Sir James told his workforce: “Since I received a call from Boris Johnson ten days ago we have refocused resources at Dyson and worked with TTP, The Technology Partnership, to design and build an entirely new ventilator.

“This new device can be manufactured quickly, efficiently and at volume. It is designed to address the specific clinical needs of Covid-19 patients and it is suited to a variety of clinical settings. The core challenge was how to design and deliver a new, sophisticated medical product in volume and in an extremely short space of time. The race is now on to get it into production.”

He said that the Dyson digital motor was “at the heart of the new device”. The new ventilator would “achieve a high-quality air supply to ensure its safety and effectiveness, drawing on our air purifier expertise which delivers high-quality filtration” in mass-produced products.

Dyson and the other makers have to work closely with the medical and healthcare regulator to ensure that the new machine is completely safe and suitable for clinical use. NHS experts and regulators have been involved in the project throughout.

Under the terms of the contract the government will cover much of the cost of getting the operation started as quickly as possible but the company stresses that it is not seeking to make a profit. Sir James is making a personal donation of 5,000 ventilators — 1,000 for the UK and 4,000 for the international effort to combat the virus.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:00 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:38 pm
Are you suggesting that I've been "mugged" by BBC News - that this is just "Dyson" puffery, DA?

Coronavirus: Government orders 10,000 ventilators from Dyson

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52043767

The order is still subject to the devices passing stringent medical tests but that is expected to happen quickly.

Dyson has had hundreds of engineers working round the clock to design the ventilators from scratch.

It is thought that even if regulatory approval is forthcoming, it could take a couple of weeks to move from prototype to the device being made in significant scale.


"It could take a couple of weeks....." A fantastic achievement if anyone can go from reg approval for prototype to ramp up to "significant scale." Two months, nay, 6 months, would often be a fantastic achievement.

EDIT: and, I'll post the report in The Times, below.
So long as Dyson is only getting paid for what is delivered - and works when delivered - what's not to like?
Im not being critical of Dyson or the govt on this but you seemed quick to defend the govt with the notion that a businessman with something to sell could well go to the media and use them to their advantage. I am just pointing out that it has been reported from govt sources that Dyson have to some extent done the same thing.

A minister stated that based on what they had seen from Dyson's proposal it was by no means certain they would get the approvals but by going to the press as per the BBC story it is going to be very hard for the govt to say no to Dyson and for them not to relax the standards a little to get them their approvals

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by IanMcL » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:16 pm

If anyone watched Newsnight, last night, there was the main man from a maker of media equipment, inc ventilators. He said that he was asked weeks ago, to fill in a form online, by Gov, in anticipation of this crisis. He has heard nothing since!

One of the 'consortia' awarded the Excel conversion to hospital contracts has sub contracted provision of lots of medical stuff inc tubing etc, from his company, so he is flat out.

His problem is getting some parts, from his suppliers! They decided to close, as the workers got 80%!! He has persuaded them to supply him and stay working.

He said that had he been approached by Government after the survey, by now he could have secured spa e, workers and already providing thousands of the ventilators he makes!

Dyson and other 'consortia' will not be able to produce anything, for some weeks!

Money for the boys!

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:18 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:57 am
I saw the same type of story on the news about the manufacturer of PPE who had contacted the government and been declined and they are making PPE for lots of other countries.
But then I took a step back and thought there is probably 2 sides to the story and there could be a good reason why the government are not prepared to deal with these companies.
Dyson have the skills, resources and infrastructure to do this better than any British Company - we know the initial volume to be made is 10k but I am sure they are in discussions with Dyson and maybe other companies about making more.

It’s a good thing - and not sure Dyson should be criticised for moving some of their manufacturing to China when most of the world has done the same. The people having a dig probably have no idea how many people Dyson employ in the UK and the size of their offices in the UK - they are an incredible company...a world leader in research and dev
I get that, It’s a logical step to ask our biggest engineering companies to help out on this as they, hopefully, have the capability to mass produce.
I’m not sure why they are not utilising their existing companies in conjunction with this though.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:22 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:00 pm
Im not being critical of Dyson or the govt on this but you seemed quick to defend the govt with the notion that a businessman with something to sell could well go to the media and use them to their advantage. I am just pointing out that it has been reported from govt sources that Dyson have to some extent done the same thing.

A minister stated that based on what they had seen from Dyson's proposal it was by no means certain they would get the approvals but by going to the press as per the BBC story it is going to be very hard for the govt to say no to Dyson and for them not to relax the standards a little to get them their approvals
Hi DA, my comments weren't defending the gov't - I was saying that the media is too quick to believe every business person's story without verifying. Unfortunately, too much of the media is looking to criticise the gov't and not looking to "cross-check" and verify before they report.

BBC and Times is reporting that Dyson has a contract. It's reported that gov't is paying for "set up" costs. Yes, there are qualifications, the design has got to get approvals etc. But, this is an emergency, everything is very urgent.

General rule in business is "no publicity" without the agreement of both parties to an publicise the agreement. If Dyson has put out a press release about having a contract to supply gov't then, either (a) he has got a contract - and the details of press release have been agreed with the gov't or b) he hasn't got a contract - and by putting out an incorrect press release he has just burnt whatever chance he hoped to have to win a contract.

I'm going with (a). What is your choice?

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:26 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:22 pm
Hi DA, my comments weren't defending the gov't - I was saying that the media is too quick to believe every business person's story without verifying. Unfortunately, too much of the media is looking to criticise the gov't and not looking to "cross-check" and verify before they report.

BBC and Times is reporting that Dyson has a contract. It's reported that gov't is paying for "set up" costs. Yes, there are qualifications, the design has got to get approvals etc. But, this is an emergency, everything is very urgent.

General rule in business is "no publicity" without the agreement of both parties to an publicise the agreement. If Dyson has put out a press release about having a contract to supply gov't then, either (a) he has got a contract - and the details of press release have been agreed with the gov't or b) he hasn't got a contract - and by putting out an incorrect press release he has just burnt whatever chance he hoped to have to win a contract.

I'm going with (a). What is your choice?
c) Dyson realises that at this time there's no chance the government will be able to ditch that promise of 10,000 ventilators without looking incredibly bad so will suck it up.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:31 pm

Guardian's report is also worth a read:

Dyson and Airbus expect green light to start making ventilators
The companies will start making up to 30,000 ventilators from next week to help the NHS fight Covid-19


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:32 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:22 pm
Hi DA, my comments weren't defending the gov't - I was saying that the media is too quick to believe every business person's story without verifying. Unfortunately, too much of the media is looking to criticise the gov't and not looking to "cross-check" and verify before they report.

BBC and Times is reporting that Dyson has a contract. It's reported that gov't is paying for "set up" costs. Yes, there are qualifications, the design has got to get approvals etc. But, this is an emergency, everything is very urgent.

General rule in business is "no publicity" without the agreement of both parties to an publicise the agreement. If Dyson has put out a press release about having a contract to supply gov't then, either (a) he has got a contract - and the details of press release have been agreed with the gov't or b) he hasn't got a contract - and by putting out an incorrect press release he has just burnt whatever chance he hoped to have to win a contract.

I'm going with (a). What is your choice?
I haven't got a clue but if you want me to guess based on the info I have seen then I would say they have some kind of contract in principle agreed pending meeting certain standards but have done what they can through the media to make it as difficult as possible for the govt to back out if Dyson cannot meet the normal required standards.

I would guess the logic behind Dyson's motives if my initial guess was correct is that it will be easier, quicker and cheaper for them if standards are relaxed and in the current climate getting the public and media onboard about needless red tape costing time and lives wouldnt be difficult and would not be a road the govt would want to venture down

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:32 pm

On this chat, it's interesting that the UK turned down the offer to be part of the EU joint procurement scheme (and possibly explains why we're looking at left-field options such as a company with no history of making medical equipment getting a major contract).

I've no idea as to whether this was a strategic or ideological decision as the government seem to be keeping schtum about it.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:33 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:26 pm
c) Dyson realises that at this time there's no chance the government will be able to ditch that promise of 10,000 ventilators without looking incredibly bad so will suck it up.
No, (c) is a nonsense choice.

If you don't like BBC or Times reports, read the Guardian - there's more in there.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:36 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:32 pm
On this chat, it's interesting that the UK turned down the offer to be part of the EU joint procurement scheme (and possibly explains why we're looking at left-field options such as a company with no history of making medical equipment getting a major contract).

I've no idea as to whether this was a strategic or ideological decision as the government seem to be keeping schtum about it.
Which company is that? Take a look at the Guardian report, it will explain all these things for you.

EDIT: and, if any of this stuff is urgent, which way would you expect to get the quickest results? A big committee? or a smaller one?
Last edited by Paul Waine on Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:36 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:32 pm
On this chat, it's interesting that the UK turned down the offer to be part of the EU joint procurement scheme (and possibly explains why we're looking at left-field options such as a company with no history of making medical equipment getting a major contract).

I've no idea as to whether this was a strategic or ideological decision as the government seem to be keeping schtum about it.
Might be getting this mixed up with something else but was this the one in the news some weeks ago when it was reported Johnson didn't want to take up the free invite to work jointly with the EU as it would risk weakening his Brexit position in the future?

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:38 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:33 pm
No, (c) is a nonsense choice.

If you don't like BBC or Times reports, read the Guardian - there's more in there.
It's probably less nonsensical than your option b) was the point. The suggestion that the government would cancel any chance of a contract due to early release.

Reading the Guardian report definitely doesn't seem to suggest they have a solid contract and there is a lot of talk of them meeting the regulations.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:44 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:36 pm
Which company is that? Take a look at the Guardian report, it will explain all these things for you.

EDIT: and, if any of this stuff is urgent, which way would you expect to get the quickest results? A big committee? or a smaller one?
I've read the Guardian report. I can't see anything saying that Dyson have a history of making medical equipment.

The point is that rather than being part of the big group buying up ventilators we're now competing with them which may explain that why we're looking at left-field options.

Well the EU procurement scheme has already signed deals for PPE so they seem to be moving at a decent pace. Which customer would you expect to get priority, the big one or the little one?

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:44 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:36 pm
Might be getting this mixed up with something else but was this the one in the news some weeks ago when it was reported Johnson didn't want to take up the free invite to work jointly with the EU as it would risk weakening his Brexit position in the future?
It may well be. This is the only government quote I've found on it. Asked why the Government had chosen not to join the EU scheme, the PM's spokesman replied: "Because we're no longer members of the EU."

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:47 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:44 pm
It may well be. This is the only government quote I've found on it. Asked why the Government had chosen not to join the EU scheme, the PM's spokesman replied: "Because we're no longer members of the EU."
I remember a discussion on here about something the EU invited us to join but we turned down for what seemed like Brexit ideology. I remember it because DSR completely misunderstood that they wasn't any strings attached and argued the EU were trying to pull a fast one.

Might have been something different though

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:47 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:38 pm
It's probably less nonsensical than your option b) was the point. The suggestion that the government would cancel any chance of a contract due to early release.

Reading the Guardian report definitely doesn't seem to suggest they have a solid contract and there is a lot of talk of them meeting the regulations.
Hi aggi, no major business would make the mistake of saying they have a contract when they don't have a contract. Yes, there can be "conditions precedent" i.e stuff that needs to be done before the contract becomes a firm "purchase and sale" contract. One of those things will be getting regulatory approval.

Note also that Dyson is working with The Technology Partnership, a Cambridge-based group of science and innovation companies with expertise in medical equipment. (Guardian)

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:52 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:44 pm
I've read the Guardian report. I can't see anything saying that Dyson have a history of making medical equipment.

The point is that rather than being part of the big group buying up ventilators we're now competing with them which may explain that why we're looking at left-field options.

Well the EU procurement scheme has already signed deals for PPE so they seem to be moving at a decent pace. Which customer would you expect to get priority, the big one or the little one?
I think you are mixing up a large committee where there will be long discussions about who's design to follow, the German one? the French one, the Netherlands one? (though, if Germany already has all the ventilators they need.... maybe not the German one).

Your idea about "big customer" or "little one" misses the point, I fear - unless you will now be suggesting that Dyson will cancel the contract with the UK and instead sell to the EU because they will offer a higher price? :( ;)

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:54 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:52 pm
I think you are mixing up a large committee where there will be long discussions about who's design to follow, the German one? the French one, the Netherlands one? (though, if Germany already has all the ventilators they need.... maybe not the German one).

Your idea about "big customer" or "little one" misses the point, I fear - unless you will now be suggesting that Dyson will cancel the contract with the UK and instead sell to the EU because they will offer a higher price? :( ;)
As I say, they seem to be progressing pretty quickly. Just assuming they'll be slower doesn't seem to be much of an argument. Plus, that isn't the reason the UK gave, it seemed to be an ideological decision from the only response they've given.

I'm suggesting that the big customer may be buying from established ventilator makers. If we had a choice I think most would prefer that route rather than hoping a proposed design passes the tests.

I don't know either way whether we'd be better in or out of the Joint Procurement Scheme but I'd like the decision to be based on something other than "we're not in the EU".

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by IanMcL » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:23 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:32 pm
On this chat, it's interesting that the UK turned down the offer to be part of the EU joint procurement scheme (and possibly explains why we're looking at left-field options such as a company with no history of making medical equipment getting a major contract).

I've no idea as to whether this was a strategic or ideological decision as the government seem to be keeping schtum about it.
Money for mates

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:11 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:54 pm
As I say, they seem to be progressing pretty quickly. Just assuming they'll be slower doesn't seem to be much of an argument. Plus, that isn't the reason the UK gave, it seemed to be an ideological decision from the only response they've given.

I'm suggesting that the big customer may be buying from established ventilator makers. If we had a choice I think most would prefer that route rather than hoping a proposed design passes the tests.

I don't know either way whether we'd be better in or out of the Joint Procurement Scheme but I'd like the decision to be based on something other than "we're not in the EU".
"We're not in the EU" is a straightforward and diplomatic answer. "We don't want to get stuck with a decision to buy this bit from France, that bit from Spain another part from Germany and the wings from UK..." as Airbus works and there isn't time for, is a less diplomatic response, though maybe closer to the truth.

So far as "established ventilator makers" goes, isn't the issue that whoever manufactures the existing ventilators can only make so many and cannot produce XXX thousand extra at a few weeks notice. So, there's always been the need to access new manufacturing capacity. If they are set up to assemble and ship 10 per week, how many weeks are required before an order for, say, 10,000 can be satisfied?

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by tarkys_ears » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:12 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:23 pm
Money for mates
When the NHS has calmed down, will you go get your head seen to.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by IanMcL » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:36 pm

Struck a nerve there then!
I bet when these 'consortia' come under scrutiny, there will be some very clear links and the known favoured few, who know absolutely nothing about 'ventilators' etc but can bankroll (via Government loan) the new business.

A 'consortium' of businessmen got planning permission for 82 homes in my neck of the woods, when it was land for Employment. Turns out it was Lord Marland, big Tory 'fundraiser' and former chairman.

Beware of 'consortia', it means someone is a mate and someone who shouldn't be, is usually found to have a slice, in some removed way.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by tarkys_ears » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:40 pm

As I said lad... get down there when you can.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by TVC15 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:44 pm

Mmmm ?
And has there not been several proven cases of councils and councillors agreeing planning after taking payments from developers ?

Anyhoo - we digress. I’m not sure there is anyone better placed than Dyson to move so quickly and adapt his workforce, infrastructure etc to meet the urgent demand for ventilators.
If there was / is another company capable of this then the government would surely be dealing with them. I’m no supporter of any Tory government and they have a history of dodgy commercial deals but I do believe that in this crisis their only priority is to minimise the number of deaths in this country.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by JarrowClaret » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:54 pm

Government apparently didn’t turn down the EU deal they didn’t get told about it, didn’t get the mail, but can join at a later date if needed.

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by IanMcL » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:59 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:44 pm
Mmmm ?
And has there not been several proven cases of councils and councillors agreeing planning after taking payments from developers ?
Yes there have been cases in the past.

I have had loads and loads of development in my parish and come across all the main developers.

Never been offered anything by them and they probably all think I have been a major thorn, in their side, in requiring community benefits from developments!

I have never, personally, come across anyone who has been offered anything and If I had evidence that someone had, I would turn them in. It is not a nice thing at all!

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by groove » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:01 pm

I like Dyson. Them Air-blade hand dryers they have in bogs are beltin!

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:04 pm

JarrowClaret wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:54 pm
Government apparently didn’t turn down the EU deal they didn’t get told about it, didn’t get the mail, but can join at a later date if needed.
aka The dog ate my homework

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Re: Dyson and Hospital in the same sentence...

Post by TVC15 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:08 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:59 pm
Yes there have been cases in the past.

I have had loads and loads of development in my parish and come across all the main developers.

Never been offered anything by them and they probably all think I have been a major thorn, in their side, in requiring community benefits from developments!

I have never, personally, come across anyone who has been offered anything and If I had evidence that someone had, I would turn them in. It is not a nice thing at all!
Believe me it’s rife across the country - more subtle than brown paper bags these days but nonetheless still very prevalent....and that includes the local councils round these parts who have been in the back pockets of a certain local developer for many years now.

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