Non league football

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dpinsussex
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Non league football

Post by dpinsussex » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:18 pm

Season has been terminated.

There will be no promotions or relegations between steps 3 and 6 of the non league set up.
There will also be no relegations from step 2.

No decision has been made with step 1 and 2 as yet.

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Re: Non league football

Post by claret2018 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:30 pm

I can't see how the PL and FL can go any other way. It's going to be a long time before they can start playing games again, I'd be amazed if the 20/21 season started on time regardless of what happens with this season.

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Re: Non league football

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:47 pm

claret2018 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:30 pm
I can't see how the PL and FL can go any other way.
I could see at least 1 other way - completing the season, regardless of when that is.

So if it was October, then it would be next season that could be cancelled, and the time used to complete this season.
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Re: Non league football

Post by wilks_bfc » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:47 pm

My mate will be gutted
He's a South Shields fan, who are/were 12pts clear at top of the Northern Premier

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Re: Non league football

Post by dsr » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:02 pm

If the PL doesn't complete the season, then they need either to persuade Sky to pay the TV money anyway, or they need to persuade the players to do without their contracted pay for a year. Or a combination of both. And neither seems likely.

IMO, they'll play.

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Re: Non league football

Post by dsr » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:04 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:47 pm
My mate will be gutted
He's a South Shields fan, who are/were 12pts clear at top of the Northern Premier
It could bankrupt them. They spent a shedload of money. I have heard that one player (who I won't name) was on £800 per week, and from I source that I think is at least 80% likely to be true; even if that isn't accurate, they have certainly made significant signings.

(If it doesn't bankrupt them, it's a big kick in the teeth for whoever is bankrolling them.)

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Re: Non league football

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:08 pm

claret2018 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:30 pm
I can't see how the PL and FL can go any other way. It's going to be a long time before they can start playing games again, I'd be amazed if the 20/21 season started on time regardless of what happens with this season.
The PL won’t unless there becomes no other way.

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Re: Non league football

Post by Dyched » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:11 pm

claret2018 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:30 pm
I can't see how the PL and FL can go any other way. It's going to be a long time before they can start playing games again, I'd be amazed if the 20/21 season started on time regardless of what happens with this season.

It’ll get very congested at some point.

Finishing the 19/20 season
Playing the 20/21 season
Playing the 21/22 whilst the World Cup is in the middle of the season.

I agree with what Rooney said. Finish this season even if it means writing off next season. It’ll be silly not playing the remaining games and starting over again. Right one off that hasn’t started to one that is 75/80% complete.
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Re: Non league football

Post by ecc » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:17 pm

The PL can amend its own rules (I imagine) i.e. 2020/21 could start late. The PL doesn't give a damn about fixture congestion. Right now, it's only concern is keeping its paymasters happy.

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Re: Non league football

Post by Dy1geo » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:26 pm

Direct Debits for season 20/21 start next month and if it turns out that it doesn’t start until later in the year when will it end?

Clubs could be asking for 21/22 season ticket money with only a fraction of 20/21 played.

I think now the EPL and Football Leagues should be stating what there contingencies are I.e

If season restarts on 1st June 19/20 will be concluded on x date and season 20/21 as normal

If it starts on say 1st July 19/2O will end whenever and season 20/21 will start whenever and Carabao Cup will be U23 for EPL and Championship as an example

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Re: Non league football

Post by dpinsussex » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:31 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:47 pm
My mate will be gutted
He's a South Shields fan, who are/were 12pts clear at top of the Northern Premier
Jersey bulls in the combined counties played 27 won 27. Already promoted.
Not now

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Re: Non league football

Post by Spijed » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:42 pm

It's impossible to start next season in August, so you might as well finish this one and write off next year.

If this season gets cancelled then the 20/21 will have to be played under different circumstances as well to get it finished.
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Re: Non league football

Post by jrgbfc » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:07 pm

Finish this season at all costs and then worry about next season. Drastic measures might have to be taken though, like doing away with all domestic cups for a season, and UEFA could make the Champions league and Europa league a straight knockout from the start.

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Re: Non league football

Post by tiger76 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:21 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:07 pm
Finish this season at all costs and then worry about next season. Drastic measures might have to be taken though, like doing away with all domestic cups for a season, and UEFA could make the Champions league and Europa league a straight knockout from the start.
That makes sense to me,domestic cups are a sideshow for a lot of clubs anyway,including us,so i could see them being sacrificed for a season.

The European comps are a different matter,the big boys won't like a straight KO format,and whether we like it or not they call the shots.

There's also the small matter of the Euro's to consider,a lot will hinge on when top-level footy can commence again.

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Re: Non league football

Post by ecc » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:33 pm

"Results for the 2019-20 season will be expunged for non-league divisions below the National League and National League North and South, the Football Association has announced."

It's below National League (just to clarify).

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -be-voided

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Re: Non league football

Post by Goobs » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:40 pm

The only need to cancel this season I can see is if it isn't possible to fit in the remaining games before contracts start to expire.

IF that happens then to me you would have to cancel this season and start fresh in August (or whenever) with the new season and play twice weekly if required, maybe getting rid of the league cup for one year.

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Re: Non league football

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:43 pm

If it means Leeds not coming up, then I guess I could just about stand it if this season was cancelled. Although at this moment in time, I do not think that is the most sensible or fair option.

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Re: Non league football

Post by Enty1974 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:47 pm

The football season is irrelevant at the minute
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Re: Non league football

Post by dpinsussex » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:02 pm

ecc wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:33 pm
"Results for the 2019-20 season will be expunged for non-league divisions below the National League and National League North and South, the Football Association has announced."

It's below National League (just to clarify).

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -be-voided
My original post clarified step 3 to 6.
Given the thread is titled non league football thought should be pretty obvious ;)

Then again lol
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Re: Non league football

Post by timshorts » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:58 pm

I can't see there not being some sort of Bury effect. They need to be replaced so there will be some promotion somewhere. Perhaps if Macclesfield or someone else crashes the national league will drop to 22 sides.

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Re: Non league football

Post by Hibsclaret » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:15 pm

As said above the football season is irrelevant at the minute. However, the decisions made at the top level should definitely filter through all leagues. You can’t have some leagues voided and others completed. There’s also significant impact on season long bets.

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Re: Non league football

Post by paulatky » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:26 pm

Continue this season in March 2021 and call it season 19/21.

How can football restart with crowds when vital medical personnel and equipment are required at grounds, That resource will still be needed within the NHS
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Re: Non league football

Post by Jimmymaccer » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:49 pm

Totally totally appreciate we are where we are etc...

Increasingly given the reality and severity of it all........

Liverpool should be given the title....but whatever happens now even their parade will be muted/respectful whatever, or even one to bring the country together.....

Everything else starts again.....sod last season....sky shouldn’t lose out, just carry on with next season etc....lawyers will be vultures whatever but f’kem, true football fans surely will just be glad we’ve come out alive,and maybe society and football will be better for it (for a while no doubt).

I maybe totally deluded but even if we were running away in the championship......I’d accept a start again result given circumstances and just what people have given us to keep us safe.

So go on first response “deluded”.

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Re: Non league football

Post by Claretforever » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:21 am

With the way things are going it’ll be October or beyond before we can get back to football, so why not write off next season completely?

Let’s say it starts in October just have cup competitions between then and March, open transfer window, and then resume this season next March at the point it finished. It becomes a 2019-20-21 season.

I realise by just having cup competitions it means we won’t play from November to March. :(

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Re: Non league football

Post by dsr » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:52 am

Claretforever wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:21 am
With the way things are going it’ll be October or beyond before we can get back to football, so why not write off next season completely?

Let’s say it starts in October just have cup competitions between then and March, open transfer window, and then resume this season next March at the point it finished. It becomes a 2019-20-21 season.

I realise by just having cup competitions it means we won’t play from November to March. :(
Two reasons. One is money, of course. The other is public interest - if we get started in October, after 7 months or so with no football, you want to arrange a season with 9 more league games in the next 10 months? Everybody - players, fans, referees, TV viewers - will want to get on with it.

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Re: Non league football

Post by Gp8419 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 am

Be For me personally I thinks it’s best to call it null and void if it doesn’t have any footy by end of June.Its as bad as it gets the world at the minute there is more to life than football and it’s just pure greed is the premier league all about money. We are all equal the national league have done the right thing fair play.There should be no moaning thousands have lost life’s get on with it! Also we was on a roll we could finished 6th who knows?! But who gives a damn in this current situation! There’s more to life than bloody football!
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Re: Non league football

Post by NottsClaret » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:11 am

There's no right answer, but looks to me like they're wanting to void all the leagues, just testing out reaction on the non-leagues.

Aim to start again in September. There's a temptation to cancel everything this year but life will go on and although things look bleak now it won't last forever. A week seems a lifetime at the moment, so a few months from now is a long time, the situation will improve.

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Re: Non league football

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:20 am

I'm sure we can all agree that wiping out this season wouldn't be fair on the winners, but money will decide it.

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Re: Non league football

Post by ecc » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:28 am

Hi dpinsussex,

I'm sorry. I wasn't functioning properly yesterday (not sure I ever do though :) ).

No offence intended.
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Re: Non league football

Post by Spijed » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:59 am

NottsClaret wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:11 am
There's no right answer, but looks to me like they're wanting to void all the leagues, just testing out reaction on the non-leagues.

Aim to start again in September. There's a temptation to cancel everything this year but life will go on and although things look bleak now it won't last forever. A week seems a lifetime at the moment, so a few months from now is a long time, the situation will improve.
There is no chance any football could start in September. Even if it did as soon as another player tests positive they'd have to completely shut down the league again due to the fear it might spread.

If they cancel this season I suspect we won't be having any football next season either.
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Re: Non league football

Post by NottsClaret » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:22 am

Spijed wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:59 am
There is no chance any football could start in September. Even if it did as soon as another player tests positive they'd have to completely shut down the league again due to the fear it might spread.

If they cancel this season I suspect we won't be having any football next season either.
Not sure about that. Covid19 is always going to be around from now on. Everybody is going to be exposed to it at some point, the world can't standstill forever. Same for football, people will be off ill and they'll have to cope as will everyone else.

Right now we're trying to stop health services being overwhelmed but as this goes on, football will just have to deal with it like every other industry. Bearing in mind footballers are probably as low risk as you'll get when it comes to the effects of Covid19.

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Re: Non league football

Post by paulatky » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:31 am

NottsClaret wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:22 am
Not sure about that. Covid19 is always going to be around from now on. Everybody is going to be exposed to it at some point, the world can't standstill forever. Same for football, people will be off ill and they'll have to cope as will everyone else.

Right now we're trying to stop health services being overwhelmed but as this goes on, football will just have to deal with it like every other industry. Bearing in mind footballers are probably as low risk as you'll get when it comes to the effects of Covid19.
The main issue to me is where the medical resources are going to come from if football is played with an audience.

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Re: Non league football

Post by NottsClaret » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:49 am

paulatky wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:31 am
The main issue to me is where the medical resources are going to come from if football is played with an audience.
How many are there now? Does every match have ambulances on standby? I've never seen them.

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Re: Non league football

Post by wilks_bfc » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:54 am

NottsClaret wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:49 am
How many are there now? Does every match have ambulances on standby? I've never seen them.
Pretty sure there has to be at least one ambulance crew at every premier league game. Not sure about league games but there will definitely be members of St Johns there

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Re: Non league football

Post by ChorltonCharlie » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:25 pm

We have no idea how this will play out, but when you think about it from a money point of view if it comes to cancelling next season OR voiding this one the latter is the only option. Sky, BT, etc have already been able to show 3 quarters of games for this season and have received income from subscriptions and advertising for this, so therefore the clubs can still receive money for that. Cancelling a full season of the PL wipes out at least £120m for all clubs and much more for the bigger ones.

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Re: Non league football

Post by wembley94 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:26 pm

Don't always agree with Gary Neville.but just play games every other day.over two or three weeks.and next season cancel international breaks and one of the cup competitions

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Re: Non league football

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:32 pm

ChorltonCharlie wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:25 pm
We have no idea how this will play out, but when you think about it from a money point of view if it comes to cancelling next season OR voiding this one the latter is the only option. Sky, BT, etc have already been able to show 3 quarters of games for this season and have received income from subscriptions and advertising for this, so therefore the clubs can still receive money for that. Cancelling a full season of the PL wipes out at least £120m for all clubs and much more for the bigger ones.
the cost of voiding the season is known and has been discussed at length it is around £750m to media rights holders - PL Clubs received a stage payment in late February - the remaining chunk - including the merit and TV appearance payments- was scheduled to be paid in June. - If you want more detail it is in the Magic Money Tree thread over the last 3 weeks

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Re: Non league football

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:34 pm

wembley94 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:26 pm
Don't always agree with Gary Neville.but just play games every other day.over two or three weeks.and next season cancel international breaks and one of the cup competitions
Not if you care about competitive integrity or player welfare

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Re: Non league football

Post by ChorltonCharlie » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:34 pm

Chester, if that loss was passed onto clubs it would average out at £37.5m a club. Much less than they'd stand to lose for a full season disappearing from the calendar.

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Re: Non league football

Post by ChorltonCharlie » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:36 pm

wembley94 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:26 pm
Don't always agree with Gary Neville.but just play games every other day.over two or three weeks.and next season cancel international breaks and one of the cup competitions
The problem with that suggestion is a) not knowing when we can actually restart and b) even as restrictions are lifted there's a good chance we'll have them all again further down the line. Football authorities will need to take into account the lack of certainty that will be around our lives until the impact on health services can be reduced for the long term.

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Re: Non league football

Post by Spijed » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:37 pm

But surely the best way is to use next season to tie up all the loose ends from this?

If you cancel this season and next season starts late you have two seasons effectively damaged, because we can't play midweek games every week unless the European competitions are cancelled as well.

Then what about international breaks for the Euro's? Should teams who have more international players be made to lose out, compared to those who don't?

By letting this season run over into next season, one will be damaged, not two.

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Re: Non league football

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:39 pm

ChorltonCharlie wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:34 pm
Chester, if that loss was passed onto clubs it would average out at £37.5m a club. Much less than they'd stand to lose for a full season disappearing from the calendar.
indeed - but they have so far refused to contemplate (in public at least) the fact that a whole season would disappear and is symptomatic of the short termism endemic in the way the game is run

remember losses for voiding would also include European competition, Matchday and hospitality, sponsorship and even commercial/retail sales - for some PL clubs it could approach £100m+ of lost revenues

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Re: Non league football

Post by ChorltonCharlie » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:13 pm

Indeed, sooner or later there's going to be some huge losses but football needs to remember it's not alone and is not privileged. This could well change football as we currently know it. You've got to think the next time a TV deal is up for negotiation that the sums offered will be hugely reduced.

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Re: Non league football

Post by dpinsussex » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:18 pm

ChorltonCharlie wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:13 pm
Indeed, sooner or later there's going to be some huge losses but football needs to remember it's not alone and is not privileged. This could well change football as we currently know it. You've got to think the next time a TV deal is up for negotiation that the sums offered will be hugely reduced.
Thankfully no tv deals need negotiating in non league step 3 and below.
Still massive losses though.

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Re: Non league football

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:24 pm

ChorltonCharlie wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:13 pm
Indeed, sooner or later there's going to be some huge losses but football needs to remember it's not alone and is not privileged. This could well change football as we currently know it. You've got to think the next time a TV deal is up for negotiation that the sums offered will be hugely reduced.
not necessarily
- the audiences for games on pay tv (globally) are small anyhow - this has been discussed at length on the Magic Money Tree thread - forget the much quoted audience of billions - even the biggest games are rarely watched by 20m around the world
- viewing numbers could increase post pandemic in the same way attendances did post war
- The Premier League have already one territory deal for the next cycle signed up - the Nordic region (4 countries) will be paying the equivalent of about 22% of the current global overseas rights value on their own - it is more than double the current deal

In the longer term there is a different issue which is the current generation of kids do not engage in the game the same way, and the pandemic is accelerating their preference for e-sports

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Re: Non league football

Post by ChorltonCharlie » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:02 pm

I'd have thought the bigger issue was people cancelling TV subscriptions if times are hard and the amount of money companies like Sky might have lost by then. I'm no business expert, just would expect people to tighten their belts for a bit including huge media companies.

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Re: Non league football

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:35 pm

ChorltonCharlie wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:02 pm
I'd have thought the bigger issue was people cancelling TV subscriptions if times are hard and the amount of money companies like Sky might have lost by then. I'm no business expert, just would expect people to tighten their belts for a bit including huge media companies.
there will be a lot of change in the market, of that there is no doubt, there will also be different approaches to packaging by organisations like Sky and possibly in the offering from the Premier League to rights holders - what we will see is a period where audiences will have to prioritise it's decision making on spend and that will show where football stands.

for now the biggest financial hurdle that the PL is facing is the next round of transfer payments for players they have previously signed - that is in the hundreds of millions of pounds and due June/July

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Re: Non league football

Post by paulatky » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:41 pm

NottsClaret wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:49 am
How many are there now? Does every match have ambulances on standby? I've never seen them.
There is none so blind as those who can not see

dsr
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Re: Non league football

Post by dsr » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:44 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:34 pm
Not if you care about competitive integrity or player welfare
I don't see where competitive integrity comes in - after all, it's the same for all teams - but player welfare? I realise football and tennis are different games, but if tennis players can play 6-hour games two days apart, I would have thought footballers could do it too.

Or here's another thought - there are 25 men in each squad. Use some of them.

Chester Perry
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Re: Non league football

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:04 pm

dsr wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:44 pm
I don't see where competitive integrity comes in - after all, it's the same for all teams - but player welfare? I realise football and tennis are different games, but if tennis players can play 6-hour games two days apart, I would have thought footballers could do it too.

Or here's another thought - there are 25 men in each squad. Use some of them.

I posted about this a few weeks back on the Magic Money Tree thread - it is a real issue especially when teams are not truly match fit

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