HahaYeah wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:22 pm

He/she has pushed someone over.

So you're OK with the government being violent with non-violent protesters? What a bootlicker.

PeterWilton wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:06 pm

So you're OK with the government being violent with non-violent protesters? What a bootlicker.

Oh it's one of those non violent my little pony riots.


Ok.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-charged ... d=73263067

This has been happening to protesters a lot.

HahaYeah wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:19 pm

Oh it's one of those non violent my little pony riots.


Ok.

Well what act or violence do you see in that video? It all from the police. Violently shoving people to the ground.

Its.literally the police brutality that they're protesting against.

I notice you never seem to have a problem with police brutality. I wonder if you like it as much as your orange icon.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:24 am

This is how barbaric some supporters of Trump are:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... ns-n993171

Wtf!!!!!!!!
Sickeningly anything is possible under Trump

mkmel wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:34 pm

Wtf!!!!!!!!
Sickeningly anything is possible under Trump

he's taken the country back 60 years in less than 4

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:11 pm

he's taken the country back 60 years in less than 4

Genuine question because I don't know how it works.

This is a state rule, can it be overridden by the federal gov?
Say they'd done it with Obama in charge for example.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:16 pm

Genuine question because I don't know how it works.

This is a state rule, can it be overridden by the federal gov?
Say they'd done it with Obama in charge for example.

No, the president cannot simply order state and local officials to change their policies but the Republicans are clearly doing everything he says as has been proven hundreds of times already

BUT

The constitutional order has a federal structure, meaning that (a) federal powers are supreme, yes, but limited in scope and (b) the state governments are independent entities, not mere subordinate layers under and within the federal government (that is, the federal-state relationship is not similar to the way that counties and cities are subordinate layers under the state governments).

As noted above, federal law is supreme over state law in the US system. And so, if there is an otherwise-constitutional federal law compelling an outcome that runs contrary to a state or local rule, the federal law prevails. But it does not follow that President Trump can therefore override state and local rules on matters like shelter-in-place.

So basically it all depends on circumstance

What his rhetoric has done is enable the backwards thinking people in his party to pretty much do whatever the **** they want.

Had the same applied under Obama I would be just as disgusted

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:25 pm

No, the president cannot simply order state and local officials to change their policies but the Republicans are clearly doing everything he says as has been proven hundreds of times already

BUT

The constitutional order has a federal structure, meaning that (a) federal powers are supreme, yes, but limited in scope and (b) the state governments are independent entities, not mere subordinate layers under and within the federal government (that is, the federal-state relationship is not similar to the way that counties and cities are subordinate layers under the state governments).

As noted above, federal law is supreme over state law in the US system. And so, if there is an otherwise-constitutional federal law compelling an outcome that runs contrary to a state or local rule, the federal law prevails. But it does not follow that President Trump can therefore override state and local rules on matters like shelter-in-place.

So basically it all depends on circumstance

What his rhetoric has done is enable the backwards thinking people in his party to pretty much do whatever the **** they want.

Had the same applied under Obama I would be just as disgusted

So if Biden became President and had control of both houses, could he introduce a law that makes abortion legal in the US, thus nullifying the anti-abortion state laws?

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:30 pm

So if Biden became President and had control of both houses, could he introduce a law that makes abortion legal in the US, thus nullifying the anti-abortion state laws?

hmm honestly not 100% sure but I would say no because State law is still there - if Texas remains a Red state then the Republicans have the rule over it so I'm guessing (and it is a guess) that the same rules I quoted would apply. If Texas goes to the Democrats and they take both the house and senate and have the Presidency then 100% they can change it.

There is a lot riding on this election for women and LGBT community etc etc. It's not as basic as "I don't like Trump he's a dick", if he gets back in then America will go back to the dark ages and will be no better than a North Korea imho

I still find it unfathomable that 350 million people has come down to Trump v Biden

It's pathetic

mkmel wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:34 pm

Wtf!!!!!!!!
Sickeningly anything is possible under Trump

Compare and contrast. Imagine the outrage from the western world when women get executed for having abortions in parts of the Middle East.

Whereas there is silence when some in America want women to suffer the same fate for doing exactly the same thing!

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:40 pm

hmm honestly not 100% sure but I would say no because State law is still there - if Texas remains a Red state then the Republicans have the rule over it so I'm guessing (and it is a guess) that the same rules I quoted would apply. If Texas goes to the Democrats and they take both the house and senate and have the Presidency then 100% they can change it.

There is a lot riding on this election for women and LGBT community etc etc. It's not as basic as "I don't like Trump he's a dick", if he gets back in then America will go back to the dark ages and will be no better than a North Korea imho

Surely the way around that Vegas is to just make it a federal law against abortion. Like they did with Prohibition, Slavery etc.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:37 pm

Surely the way around that Vegas is to just make it a federal law against abortion. Like they did with Prohibition, Slavery etc.

yeah but you need those in power to want to pass that.......

What you need in every government is a strong opposition... weights and measures. It stops the sh1t ideas every party dreams up without enough thought and prevents it becoming an oligopoly.... the kind that cost Britain the colonies... and the mass reform movements triggered by “The Rights of Man”. Does not bare thinking about what would happen in the US....

Abortion was always a states right to legislate and if Roe-Wade is repealed the issue will revert to each individual state.

Roe Wade has always lacked legitimacy because it was tenuously justified under a constitutional right to privacy. As a result it has never gained legitimacy, something even Ruth Bader Ginsburg acknowledged

Congress does not have the authority and will never have a right to legislate on abortion for all states because it a states rights issue.

I listened with interest to a one on one interview with Grand Master Jay of NFAC, was very telling his thoughts on BLM and was very derogatory of them in terms of rioters and looters and that NFAC would have no affiliation with them. Watching them drill with those weapons and faces covered to protect them and GMJ being the spokesperson and willing to show his face was for me a quite sinister thing and as always as I listened I agreed with some and not other points. However, he lost me when he stated they wand the US Gov. to hand over the state of Texas so they can be an independent state, it's certainly a scary funny old world at the moment.

KateR wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:57 pm

I listened with interest to a one on one interview with Grand Master Jay of NFAC, was very telling his thoughts on BLM and was very derogatory of them in terms of rioters and looters and that NFAC would have no affiliation with them. Watching them drill with those weapons and faces covered to protect them and GMJ being the spokesperson and willing to show his face was for me a quite sinister thing and as always as I listened I agreed with some and not other points. However, he lost me when he stated they wand the US Gov. to hand over the state of Texas so they can be an independent state, it's certainly a scary funny old world at the moment.

I lived in Texas for 6 and a half years. Met some great people but they all wanted Texas to be it's own country. You may have a different experience (not sure where you live ?) but I found Texas to be bat **** cray cray

Home in Houston for years, LA before that, I should say our main home is in Houston because we have spent time being based in other countries but with company housing. Always coming home to Houston, hubby is also assigned overseas a lot so it's a lottery where we end up and for how long. However, it's been a nomadic life style for decades and have loved it but obviously you miss certain things from home but we have no plans to move back.

It's strange in how often people we meet/talk to, way more than 50% in Texas are not born/bred Texas but ended up here, growing/sprawling city and a lot going for it, but very flat and of course the hurricanes are no fun at all. I do love a good road trip though and we have done quite a few epic trips over the years, always wanted to do on in Europe and maybe we will one day.

Been to Vegas a few times and always enjoyed but never for more than a long weekend, our eldest used to get up at 4 am and drive to Vegas from LA with friends sometimes and arrive back around 1/2 am next morning, they were late teens and thought they were crazy but I always felt somewhat safe in that they could not legally drink.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:16 pm

I lived in Texas for 6 and a half years. Met some great people but they all wanted Texas to be it's own country. You may have a different experience (not sure where you live ?) but I found Texas to be bat **** cray cray

The state motto tells you all you need to know about Texas. It took all Huston’s power of persuasion to get the, the join the US... and they were amongst the most robust in the State Rights argument once the civil war began. It was even where they imagined the Confederacy could survive with an independence rebellion by Texas for a while.... so it is nothing knew. Lol

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:50 pm

The state motto tells you all you need to know about Texas. It took all Huston’s power of persuasion to get the, the join the US... and they were amongst the most robust in the State Rights argument once the civil war began. It was even where they imagined the Confederacy could survive with an independence rebellion by Texas for a while.... so it is nothing knew. Lol

also maybe why it's a great state, definitely interesting areas that are so diverse in climate/weather and how they look and feel all within a single state but definitely a "red" state.

On a slightly more sober note, I think the Trump presidency has highlighted some of the problems with a written constitution when compared to an unwritten constitution such as we have in Britain. Edmund Burke put forward the view that the constitution should evolve slowly and organically to avoid radical change but at the time be able to update itself to keep pace with changes in the state. A couple of issues come particularly to mind:

1. When the constitution was written, the United States was a much looser confederation of thirteen states, which were given a good degree of independence from the federal government. Over the years, the union between the states has become much closer and the US as a whole is much more of unified state. The idea of electing a president via the Electoral College reflects the original condition of the US, but not the present-day condition, and as a result you have the ridiculous and undemocratic situation whereby a person such as Trump who loses the election by a good margin can still be elected as President.

2. The legislature branch of government is represented by the judges of the Supreme Court, and they are supposed by independent arbiters of the constitutionality or otherwise of legislation passed by the President and Congress. This worked very well in earlier years, but now with the ever-increasing role of political parties, the rule that Supreme Court judges are appointed by the President means that the legislature is no longer an independent arbiter. It has become politicised to an extent that was not envisioned by those who devised the constitution.

3. The President is both the Head of State as well as the Head of Government, whereas in Britain the Queen is the Head of State (a titular and ceremonial role) whilst the Prime Minister is the Head of Government. In Ireland, as another example, the President is Head of State but not Head of Government. The problem is that someone like Trump not only has a role in government, but is also the representative of the nation. That means his being a rather sleazy and immoral individual brings disgrace on the nation as a whole. I would think that's Trump's supporters favour his policies, but very few admire him as a person, and that is a problem when he is the Head of State, fulfilling the role of representing the nation in the way that the Queen does in Britain.

KateR wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:05 pm

also maybe why it's a great state, definitely interesting areas that are so diverse in climate/weather and how they look and feel all within a single state but definitely a "red" state.

Yep a big old chunk of land is Texas. I’ve dealt with a few Texans about various business things over the years.... I find them very easy to get on with. I like them.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:40 pm

hmm honestly not 100% sure but I would say no because State law is still there - if Texas remains a Red state then the Republicans have the rule over it so I'm guessing (and it is a guess) that the same rules I quoted would apply. If Texas goes to the Democrats and they take both the house and senate and have the Presidency then 100% they can change it.

There is a lot riding on this election for women and LGBT community etc etc. It's not as basic as "I don't like Trump he's a dick", if he gets back in then America will go back to the dark ages and will be no better than a North Korea imho

The Dems can pass laws protecting abortion rights, and states would legally have to obey them. But it won't matter. Republicans intend to break any law that protects a woman's right to choose with the purpose being to challenge the law through the courts. That's why they want this religious nut on the supreme court, because when they challenge a law protecting women's reproductive rights the supreme court can decide its unconstitutional and then any state is entirely free to force women to carry all babies to term, no matter what.

I'm still shocked that somebody uses 'lol' and expects other people to take them seriously.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:37 pm

Surely the way around that Vegas is to just make it a federal law against abortion. Like they did with Prohibition, Slavery etc.

No. They want to pack the supreme court with anti-choicr judges so that any law protecting abortion rights can be litigated to the supreme court where they can then declare it unconstitutional.

Uwe Noble wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:45 pm

Abortion was always a states right to legislate and if Roe-Wade is repealed the issue will revert to each individual state.

Roe Wade has always lacked legitimacy because it was tenuously justified under a constitutional right to privacy. As a result it has never gained legitimacy, something even Ruth Bader Ginsburg acknowledged

Congress does not have the authority and will never have a right to legislate on abortion for all states because it a states rights issue.

Like slavery, right?

For those who aren't aware, there's no such thing as a "states rights issue". Federal law is supreme. "states rights" don't exist outside of that.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:24 pm

What you need in every government is a strong opposition... weights and measures. It stops the sh1t ideas every party dreams up without enough thought and prevents it becoming an oligopoly.... the kind that cost Britain the colonies... and the mass reform movements triggered by “The Rights of Man”. Does not bare thinking about what would happen in the US....

The problem in American is that its an actual tyranny pretending to be a democracy.

3 million more people voted for Trump's opponent and 25 million more people voted for sitteng Democratic senators but because the electoral system is rigged you have Republicans controlling the White House and the Senate.

Democrats need to win by a landslide just to win.

$750

BurningBeard wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:45 pm

$750

I pay more in tax in a month that the President of the United States paid in his first year in office!

martin_p wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:53 pm

I pay more in tax in a month that the President of the United States paid in his first year in office!

You seem shocked?

PeterWilton wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:04 pm

The problem in American is that its an actual tyranny pretending to be a democracy.

3 million more people voted for Trump's opponent and 25 million more people voted for sitteng Democratic senators but because the electoral system is rigged you have Republicans controlling the White House and the Senate.

Democrats need to win by a landslide just to win.

I suspect that is a historical problem created by the fracturing of the democrat party along Mason Dixon basis, just as republicanism hit the big time; though I may be wrong.

Needless to say his supporters are calling the tax dodge fake news - I mean, it's not like he didn't promise his taxes nearly 4 years ago, and not like he hasn't been asked about them 1000 times - only one thing fake and that is the orange turd pretending to be a President

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:33 am

Needless to say his supporters are calling the tax dodge fake news - I mean, it's not like he didn't promise his taxes nearly 4 years ago, and not like he hasn't been asked about them 1000 times - only one thing fake and that is the orange turd pretending to be a President

I can't read all the thread as I normally prefer to stay out of politics, but he clearly didn't know what the bible meant.

Let that sink in again - he had no idea of what the bible actually meant, or why it existed. I've an 8 year old nephew who isn't in the least bit religious who knows more.

He thought Covid could be cured by injecting people.

There's a thought that eventually, Earth will be taken over by Zombies. Is this the beginning?

FactualFrank wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:39 am

I can't read all the thread as I normally prefer to stay out of politics, but he clearly didn't know what the bible meant.

Let that sink in again - he had no idea of what the bible actually meant, or why it existed. I've an 8 year old nephew who isn't in the least bit religious who knows more.

He thought Covid could be cured by injecting people.

There's a thought that eventually, Earth will be taken over by Zombies. Is this the beginning?

And his supporters will tell you he was only joking, you misinterpreted what he said and it's all fake news.Honestly Frank, when he got in I thought it might be something different so give him a chance. How wrong was I ?!

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:50 am

And his supporters will tell you he was only joking, you misinterpreted what he said and it's all fake news.Honestly Frank, when he got in I thought it might be something different so give him a chance. How wrong was I ?!

His supporters are senile. They must be. They cannot think for themselves and must feel part of some sort of club, where they all get together.

FactualFrank wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:57 am

His supporters are senile. They must be. They cannot think for themselves and must feel part of some sort of club, where they all get together.

Republicult

Federal judge just blocked his Tik Tok ban - just waiting for his meltdown on twitter

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:59 pm

I suspect that is a historical problem created by the fracturing of the democrat party along Mason Dixon basis, just as republicanism hit the big time; though I may be wrong.

Not really.

Sure, a part of the problem always existed since the formation of the electoral college and the decision that all states get 2 senators regardless of population, but the Republicans are the ones who chose to exploit that for power. The southern strategy they came up was extremely racist, but also a lot of these states also have fewer people, which means as well as having to convince fewer voters in these more racist states to elect a senator, because all states start off with two electoral college votes and then the rest are divided proportionally on population it also means a vote for president in a state with 10 EC votes is worth more than a vote for president in a state with 20 EC votes. (CGP Grey has an excellent video about this on YouTube that's worth checking out).

So while it's true that the electoral system is the root of the problem, it can't be ignores and should be highlighted who it is exactly that is exploiting this flaw in order to get around the will of the voters.

But its not just historical flaws they're exploiting. They're creating new ones and have been for decades. The voting rights act, which protected the voting rights of minorities (who tend to vote Democratic), has been defanged by the Republican SCOTUS which has allowed states with Republican leaders to close polling places in minority populated areas as long as - and this is amazing - as long as they are explicitly doing it to hurt Democrats and not based on racism.

Same with voter ID laws. These are intended, explicitly, to allow Republicans to win because poorer people can afford them less which means they can't afford the ID required to vote. There are other tricks involved here too, like gun licences are acceptable forms of ID but not college ID.

There was also a federal consent decree which required the Republican Party to receive consent if they wanted to recruit and deplot poll watchers because 40 years ago they recruited an army of poll watchers who then went on to deliberately intimidate people who voted. This consent decree was allowed to lapse recently when Trump-appointed judges refused to renew it and now Trump's campaign is recruiting another voter intimidation army. And I'm not exaggerating when I say "army", that's literally how they're marketing their recruitment. As an "army" to protect "election security".

On top of all this election rigging and voter suppression, they're planning to win the election in the courts, because they know they can't win with just the votes. That's why Trump is saying that mail-in votes are fraudulent, without evidence, because he's trying to legitimise the obviously anti-democratic means by which his campaign is actually going to try and win.
His campaigns legal team is preparing to have Republican controlled legislatures in battleground states replace their electors (the people who cast the electoral college votes) with Trump loyalists who will accept Trump's argument that the voting was corrupted and cast their electoral college votes not for who wins the popular vote in their state, but for Trump no matter what. And that might be entirely legal. It might actually be constitutional to do that. And who decides what is and isn't constitutional? The supreme court.
And if you think "well, clearly Peter's just being an alarmist about this electors thing", no. A Trump campaign lawyer has literally said this is what they're working on.
This si why Biden needs to absolutely bury Trump in the electoral college, because if its close enough where one or two Republican controlled states can swing the election by disregarding the votes then they might actually pull it off. And that's when the country will just blow up.

it could be about to come crashing down for Trump and his associates

Big old Donnie seemed such a stand up guy as well.


Fingers in the ears job for his supporters.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:04 am

it could be about to come crashing down for Trump and his associates

To be fair to Kushner I don’t think he had any tweets to delete did he?

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:04 am

it could be about to come crashing down for Trump and his associates

how many times have we heard that before? despite the establishment throwing everything at it Big Don will be elected again.

PeterWilton wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:50 pm

The Dems can pass laws protecting abortion rights, and states would legally have to obey them. But it won't matter. Republicans intend to break any law that protects a woman's right to choose with the purpose being to challenge the law through the courts. That's why they want this religious nut on the supreme court, because when they challenge a law protecting women's reproductive rights the supreme court can decide its unconstitutional and then any state is entirely free to force women to carry all babies to term, no matter what.

This guy does not understand what he is talking about.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:04 am

it could be about to come crashing down for Trump and his associates

I can’t stand the guy but nothing will happen. He’s had far worse than this thrown at him and come up smelling of roses thanks to the deranged element among his support.

So what if he’s completely desecrated the office of President, at least he’s owning the Libs!!! It’s insane but then it has been for over four years.

FactualFrank wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:39 am

I can't read all the thread as I normally prefer to stay out of politics, but he clearly didn't know what the bible meant.

Let that sink in again - he had no idea of what the bible actually meant, or why it existed. I've an 8 year old nephew who isn't in the least bit religious who knows more.

He thought Covid could be cured by injecting people.

There's a thought that eventually, Earth will be taken over by Zombies. Is this the beginning?

So reminiscent of the1980s when the brainless left were fulminating about how stupid Reagan was. History repeating itself.

Uwe Noble wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:30 am

This guy does not understand what he is talking about.

I think if you're someone who thinks that partial birth abortion is "killing newborn babies" then you should remain quiet on any issue remotely related to abortion. And you certainly shouldn't be claiming that far more informed people than you "does not understand" what they're talking about.

Uwe Noble wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:33 am

So reminiscent of the1980s when the brainless left were fulminating about how stupid Reagan was. History repeating itself.

To be fair he makes Regan look like Stephen Hawking!

martin_p wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:53 pm

I pay more in tax in a month that the President of the United States paid in his first year in office!

Typical of much of the inaccurate comment about Trump on this board. The NY Times article was about federal income tax. People also pay state income tax and other local taxes.