Clarets in the black

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levraiclaret
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Clarets in the black

Post by levraiclaret » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:34 am


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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by deanothedino » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:37 am

wHeRe hAs aLl tHe mOnEy gOnE?

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:39 am

Wage bill increased to £87 million.

We were told on here that it was only as high as £82 million because of the bonuses for finishing in a European place.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Bosscat » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:40 am

deanothedino wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:37 am
wHeRe hAs aLl tHe mOnEy gOnE?
I was wondering that, after all a Football club costs nowt to run does it, and they don't pay tax or owt like that do they, or pay wages to staff.....
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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:45 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:39 am
Wage bill increased to £87 million.

We were told on here that it was only as high as £82 million because of the bonuses for finishing in a European place.
Probably told by people who think they know the club's financial status better than those running it.

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Burnley announce profit of £4.3m for year to June 2919

Post by paulatky » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:45 am

Pre-tax €5.0m

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by deanothedino » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:52 am

There's also an monthly average of 71 more staff on the books.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:55 am

It was Dyche in interview that stated the wage bill was only 59m and the rest bonuses straight after it came out.

Edited to not spread wrong information
Last edited by Quickenthetempo on Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:57 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:55 am
It was Dyche in interview that stated the wage bill was only 59m and the rest bonuses straight after it came out.

We have spent 31m more than we have received in the last year of accounts. Slightly worrying with players expected to leave for no fees.

But while we have Pope, McNeil, Tarky and Taylor we should be alright
You look at the accounts and then see people on here demanding we loosen the purse strings and go out and spend. The minute we do that then we are running at losses. We can only make profits when we sell players.

I think it is common knowledge that the wages are structured like that with bonus payments. I'd have assumed that the wage bill at £59 million would have been the case had we been relegated with no bonuses paid.

I think the only players who, at the moment, can leave without a fee are Hendrick, Lennon & Bardsley.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Burnley1989 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:00 am

Haven’t really ever taken too much of an interest in our accounts. At a glance all seems good to me

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Tall Paul » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:01 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:55 am
We have spent 31m more than we have received in the last year of accounts.
Are you sure? Where do you get that figure from?

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by deanothedino » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:03 am

Tall Paul wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:01 am
Are you sure? Where do you get that figure from?
:lol: :lol:

Impressive accounting to post a profit and also spend £31m more than your income.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Clarets4me » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:03 am

deanothedino wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:37 am
wHeRe hAs aLl tHe mOnEy gOnE?
£37,516,000 in amortization of player contracts for a start .... accounting convention, not actual expenditure ..

These are good figures, £41.6m in the Bank, ( as at 30/6/19 ) and debt free. I would expect one player to depart for a sizable fee in the Summer ..
Last edited by Clarets4me on Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by NottsClaret » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:04 am

We'll still find negatives. We're pretty much spending all we can without losing money, and still competing well at the highest level.

There's a reason that won't be good enough though, and I'm sure we'll find it here.
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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Buxtonclaret » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:10 am

Wonder how many other Prem clubs will post a profit?
In fact, wonder how many professional clubs in any English league will post a profit.
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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:10 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:57 am
You look at the accounts and then see people on here demanding we loosen the purse strings and go out and spend. The minute we do that then we are running at losses. We can only make profits when we sell players.

I think it is common knowledge that the wages are structured like that with bonus payments. I'd have assumed that the wage bill at £59 million would have been the case had we been relegated with no bonuses paid.

I think the only players who, at the moment, can leave without a fee are Hendrick, Lennon & Bardsley.
It's certainly a tough balancing act.

In hindsight I don't think improving the bench has helped the club as much as everyone thought it would and has been quite expensive for us.

Looking forward we probably have to get the bench filled from the U23s with maybe one first team gamechanger. Or sell our star player every couple of seasons for big money.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by JTClaret » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:12 am

As long as we are in the Premier League, plus flirting with Europe I'm happy, very happy.

It always seems to me that those that complain we don't sign enough players (I say enough, because sometimes the lack of a player is obvious, such as central midfield after Defour and before Brownhill,) are the same people that complain we spent too much on a player, complain at 'wasted money on signings' and harp on about us being a selling club that sells cheap...we don't.

If we just signed world class players that fit straight into the team with the right attitude then nobody would complain... sounds easy to me :lol:
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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:13 am

Edited
Last edited by Quickenthetempo on Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:16 am

deanothedino wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:03 am
:lol: :lol:

Impressive accounting to post a profit and also spend £31m more than your income.
I hope I have made a pigs ear of it and we have got over 40m in the bank.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by deanothedino » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:17 am

Clarets4me wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:03 am
£37,516,000 in amortization of player contracts for a start .... accounting convention, not actual expenditure ..

These are good figures, £41.6m in the Bank, ( as at 30/6/19 ) and debt free. I would expect one player to depart for a sizable fee in the Summer ..
whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Gordaleman » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:17 am

The big worry here is the yet to come effect of Covid 19. We obviously don't have any reserves and yet we are still paying wages during the shutdown.

The big clubs will just ask their backers for more money and will probably get it, whereas Burnley don't have anyone like that. I think a lot of hard work over the last few years could be lost and we could be forced to sell to survive again. What happens then though? Let's say we sell McNeil and Pope in the summer and raise 60 to £80 million? We end up with Hart in goal and no attacking threat. It would be so easy to slide into trouble.

The board have done fantastic over the last few years but even they couldn't have forseen the current situation.

Hard times ahead I fear. :(

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by deanothedino » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:18 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:13 am
Basing it on we started out the year with 36m and now have 4.3m.

I'm no accountant like.
It shows.

The year before we made a profit of £36m and that is in the bank. This last year we made a profit of £4m and that's now also in the bank for a total of £40m in the bank.
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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by deanothedino » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:19 am

Gordaleman wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:17 am
The big worry here is the yet to come effect of Covid 19. We obviously don't have any reserves and yet we are still paying wages during the shutdown.

The big clubs will just ask their backers for more money and will probably get it, whereas Burnley don't have anyone like that. I think a lot of hard work over the last few years could be lost and we could be forced to sell to survive again. What happens then though? Let's say we sell McNeil and Pope in the summer and raise 60 to £80 million? We end up with Hart in goal and no attacking threat. It would be so easy to slide into trouble.

The board have done fantastic over the last few years but even they couldn't have forseen the current situation.

Hard times ahead I fear. :(
We have £40m in the bank...

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:21 am

deanothedino wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:18 am
It shows.

The year before we made a profit of £36m and that is in the bank. This last year we made a profit of £4m and that's now also in the bank for a total of £40m in the bank.
That's brilliant news then.

I should look at things more closely.
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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Tall Paul » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:22 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:16 am
I hope I have made a pigs ear of it and we have got over 40m in the bank.
You have and we do.
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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Ric_C » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:26 am

So I don't go too deep into finances, but in a nutshell we have:

£35 million profit tax year 17/18
5 million profit for tax year 18/19

So roughly £40 million in the bank + squad value of around £250 million ?

Plus a £10-15 million pound training facility, don't owe any money to anyone, are gradually improving our scouting network...
And we own our own ground :)

Not bad for where we were 10 years ago
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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Clarets4me » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:27 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:13 am
Basing it on we started out the year with 36m and now have 4.3m. I'm no accountant like.
Quite, page 17 of the accounts , cash at bank £41,647,000 ( 30/6/19 ) as opposed to £34,412,000 ( 30/6/18 ) ...
Last edited by Clarets4me on Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by JohnMac » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:28 am

What's with the 'we'?

:lol:

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:29 am

Gordaleman wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:17 am
The big worry here is the yet to come effect of Covid 19.
Three scenarios regarding the 2019/20 season.

Wait and play it to a conclusion under normal conditions - no concerns financially
Play the games behind closed doors - some loss of match day revenue from the four remaining games
End the season - much more serious because of a loss of TV revenue

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Mala591 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:33 am

Why don't the shareholders (the owners of the club) get a dividend?

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Tall Paul » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:37 am

Mala591 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:33 am
Why don't the shareholders (the owners of the club) get a dividend?
Because the board have decided not to pay one, to keep the money in reserve.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by ZizkovClaret » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:39 am

Tall Paul wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:37 am
Because the board have decided not to pay one, to keep the money in reserve.
I think if you want a dividend you'd be best investing elsewhere for sure haha

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by MACCA » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:40 am

Dont forget the flop signings and wages going straight down the drain.
Will be a scary figure.

Hindsight a wonderful thing, however I doubt we would want to be making those mistakes again.
The approach and plan has changed now.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:40 am

Ric_C wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:26 am
So I don't go too deep into finances, but in a nutshell we have:

£35 million profit tax year 17/18
5 million profit for tax year 18/19

So roughly £40 million in the bank + squad value of around £250 million ?

Plus a £10-15 million pound training facility, don't owe any money to anyone, are gradually improving our scouting network...
And we own our own ground :)
Yeh, but apart from that, what has the board ever done for us
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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by claretdj » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:41 am

Are the new corner stands factored into these figures also? They must of both cost a substantial amount, but they well worth it, look great & are fantastic additions for all our disabled fans.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by ClaretLoup » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:42 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:57 am

I think the only players who, at the moment, can leave without a fee are Hendrick, Lennon & Bardsley.
In 2021 Westwood, JBG, Lowton and Long will also be in that situation.

So what does the club do, particularly with Westwood? Bearing in mind that he is 30 years old, I think at the moment he would command a relatively nominal fee, £5 million, but to replace him with a mid table-EPL-experienced midfielder would cost circa £15/20 million.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Gordaleman » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:47 am

It seems there aren't too many concerns because we have circa £40 million in the bank, but that won't last long in the current environment and I imagine that some of it is already accounted for with the way the Burnley board plan ahead. I imagine that any further development of the ground may now be put on hold and player purchases may be scaled back too.

All that means we will be at a disadvantage over the big clubs in the PL who will just ask their backers for more money. (And get it.) Covid 19 is certainly not helping the situation, that's for sure.

Our board have done fantastic, but it's always been a delicate balancing act. Covid 19 could be a massive setback for all concerned.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:47 am

"We are confident that this increased investment will slowly but surely develop our ability to identify and sign players that can improve our first-team squad, whilst at the same time helping to maintain our financial sustainability as a club for generations to come.”

The most important paragraph of the whole statement.
The 40million in the bank could be crucial should we go down, as would the infrastructure built up in the background.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Mala591 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:52 am

Tall Paul wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:37 am
Because the board have decided not to pay one, to keep the money in reserve.
So, the employees of the business/company are paid increasingly obscene amounts of money and the owners of the business/company are paid nothing!

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Tribesmen » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:52 am

The word is profit how much of a loss would we make if we were in the championship ?

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by tim_noone » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:56 am

JohnMac wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:28 am
What's with the 'we'?

:lol:
Glad no one has access to my "account". :roll:
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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by TVC15 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:57 am

Wage bill and net profit pretty much as I predicted months ago.
Again our directors have not taken a penny out in dividends or salaries.
Someone commented above that we will be one of the only clubs in the league posting a profit - I doubt that given most clubs in the league posted profits the year before. What is unique however is that we maybe the only club who owe nothing to the bank or their owners.

We are still very clearly in a completely different league to the majority of other clubs in terms of finances, revenue generation, commercial sponsorship and most importantly wealth of owners / access to being subsidised. Which should make us even more proud that we are going to spend yet another season pretty comfortably in the same league as them on the pitch.

Corvid 19 is of course a big risk to our finances but it is to the whole of football and our balance sheet shows we are in a better position than most of the 92 teams to cope.
If we can avoid much of an impact from Corvid then there should be some money available to spend on the team. With the players out of contract and if we also sell Gibson we are looking at a saving in wages of around £10m which gives us some room to bring in players. Any transfer fees we spend will likely to be paid over the next few years as they usually are and we have the reserves we have built up from previous profits.

So not fortunes to spend but we are in no way skint just because we have only made £5m profit (and we’ve saved a load on corp tax this year !)

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by TVC15 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:00 am

Mala591 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:52 am
So, the employees of the business/company are paid increasingly obscene amounts of money and the owners of the business/company are paid nothing!
Yes - but they have other jobs and are wealthy in their own right. This should be something you are happy with. If you are unsure / a bit sceptical maybe google Blackpool and the Oystons.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Tall Paul » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:06 am

Mala591 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:52 am
So, the employees of the business/company are paid increasingly obscene amounts of money and the owners of the business/company are paid nothing!
Yes. Would you rather they took it out and left the club in financial difficulties if there was a drastic fall in income caused by relegation or a worldwide pandemic, for example?

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:07 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:39 am
Wage bill increased to £87 million.

We were told on here that it was only as high as £82 million because of the bonuses for finishing in a European place.
Yep that was true for the 2017/18 season based on the Dyche quip

- since then we have had the previously unmentioned massive increase in backroom staff (tripled according to the club - Rigg has been busy) and the new deals for existing players plus new wages for among others Hart, Vydra and Gibson. One has to assume last season that baseline wages came in at 70m - 75m (and that did not include full years for all those backroom staff).

It is obvious that the club are investing heavily in the backroom/academy, which many fans believe we need and want, but the wage to earnings ratio is starting to get dangerously out of kilter

I am struck by this though - the only reason the club posted a profit last year was the sale of Sam Vokes and signing of Crouch
Last edited by Chester Perry on Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Clarets4me » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:10 am

claretdj wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:41 am
Are the new corner stands factored into these figures also? They must of both cost a substantial amount, but they well worth it, look great & are fantastic additions for all our disabled fans.
Note 11 to the accounts show expenditure of £5,007,000 on " Freehold land & buildings ", and £96,000 on " Fixtures & Fittings ", so I would guess so ..

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Tall Paul » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:10 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:07 am
I am struck by this though - the only reason the club posted a profit last year was the sale of Sam Vokes and signing of Crouch
It's not really the only reason, but I get the point that you're making.

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:12 am

TVC15 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:57 am

Someone commented above that we will be one of the only clubs in the league posting a profit - I doubt that given most clubs in the league posted profits the year before. What is unique however is that we maybe the only club who owe nothing to the bank or their owners.

@Kieran Maguire posted this yesterday - underlines the point

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 7785616384

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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by Clarets4me » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:15 am

Mala591 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:52 am
So, the employees of the business/company are paid increasingly obscene amounts of money and the owners of the business/company are paid nothing!
Claret Tony or others will perhaps know better, but I don't think the Club shares have paid a dividend since the late 1960's ....

tim_noone
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Re: Clarets in the black

Post by tim_noone » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:15 am

Personally I've always gone on the turf to watch Burnley play football. I think the club is in Good hands. Long gone are the collection buckets.
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