How would you like to see the Premier League season end? - Voting Poll

[ClaretTony]

I think it does matter when. There has to be a point at which it becomes ludicrous to complete the season. We surely couldn't kick-off the 20 /21 season in autumn 21??
Admittedly, I'm being facetious there, but there would surely have to be a cut off point beyond which the only sensible option would be to void the 19 / 20 season. (Hope it doesn't happen though)

If it got to a year of a break or even close to it then that would alter the thinking but there is a real desire from the clubs to finish the season if only for purely financial reasons. It’s looking more and more likely that it will be completed at some point behind closed doors.

[ksrclaret]

Hopefully the rest of the current season will be completed behind closed doors in July, and then the 2020/21 season can kick off around September time with a full and vociferous backing.

If we're not back at the Turf come the autumn, I'll be going mad.

[KateR]

I don't know why you have to be so rude. Why wouldn't I read all your posts?
I said that I was specifically referring to the opening sentence of your post, (specifically because you referred to the season starting in August whereas I don't think it will). This doesn't mean that I didn't go on to read the rest.
October was just a for example. I could ave said mid Nov or whatever. The point still stands.

so I have to understand this, you didn't bother to read my post after I was trying to explain rationale, you didn't bother to read it and told me so, and then you accuse me of being rude, I have to say I am lost in your responses sorry Now your saying you did read it and yet responded to none of it except to bring October in to all this discussion around the 20/21 season, this is something I certainly have not considered at all.

The facts are no revenues coming in, money going out, I was of the opinion (maybe foolishly) that we were discussing abandon or complete, and this was around when deemed safe, to me, simplistically this is around June/July timeframe and 20/21 maybe gets pushed back to September start.

Anyway for absolute clarity, I am not bothered about being able to watch football, I am really bother about BFC and the effects of the stoppage and delays to stopping in terms of revenue, if you stop 2019/20 then the earliest you get revenues that count are August I would have thought, Oct would be a disaster IMO

[IanMcL]

Burnley in Europe.

[nil_desperandum]

so I have to understand this, you didn't bother to read my post after I was trying to explain rationale, you didn't bother to read it and told me so, and then you accuse me of being rude, I have to say I am lost in your responses sorry Now your saying you did read it and yet responded to none of it except to bring October in to all this discussion around the 20/21 season, this is something I certainly have not considered at all.

The facts are no revenues coming in, money going out, I was of the opinion (maybe foolishly) that we were discussing abandon or complete, and this was around when deemed safe, to me, simplistically this is around June/July timeframe and 20/21 maybe gets pushed back to September start.

Anyway for absolute clarity, I am not bothered about being able to watch football, I am really bother about BFC and the effects of the stoppage and delays to stopping in terms of revenue, if you stop 2019/20 then the earliest you get revenues that count are August I would have thought, Oct would be a disaster IMO

Despite my previous post you continue to adopt an unnecessarily confrontational and (IMO) rude response to my earlier post. As I pointed out - I did read your post in its entirety, but the point I made was that your "rationale" (set out in the final section of your post) was based on assumption that football would restart in August, and that my rationale is based on the opinion, (only my view, not a fact), that it won't.
Hence I said that I was clarifying my position in response to your opening sentences in which you incorrectly claimed that no-one had said that we wouldn't start in August. There are, in fact, many of us who don't foresee a restart as early as that. I pointed that out because the rest of your post, (though perfectly reasonable) was therefore based on the premise that we could restart in August.
Restarting the season / football ultimately is nothing to do with revenues, (though obviously the financial implications for many clubs are horrific). Football will restart when it is deemed safe for it to do so. I would love that to be late-July / August, (maybe it will), but along with many I don't see that happening.
You say that October would be a disaster. I think that many people will be really relieved if we get going as early as October, but as in all these posts, its just an opinion. We haven't been here before, so no one knows.
I could ask you what your rationale / evidence is for saying "when deemed safe, to me, simplistically this is around June/July timeframe , but I'll leave it there, because you obviously want to continue arguing about this, and I'm in no mood, nor are people in general in these difficult times. There's nothing "simple" about any of this.
If we do restart before August I'll be the first to celebrate, so long as its not putting people at risk. UTC.

[nil_desperandum]

If it got to a year of a break or even close to it then that would alter the thinking but there is a real desire from the clubs to finish the season if only for purely financial reasons. It’s looking more and more likely that it will be completed at some point behind closed doors.

I don't disagree with any of that, but there's a huge difference between a "real desire" to finish the season and the reality of where we are - unfortunately.
I think my "bottom line" is that I would be really happy if we could get the 20 / 21 season underway before mid-November - irrespective of whether we finish the current season or not. My current thinking is that I would not be enthusiastic about restarting the current season anytime after September thus effectively delaying the 20 / 21 season till after Christmas.
(i.e. about 10 weeks of football [inc play - offs] plus a 2 week closed season would take us to January if we don't restart till October and try to finish this season before starting the next.]

[ChorltonCharlie]

I agree with n_d that none of this is simple. A lot of views are very blinkered from PL/Burnley point of view and that continuing this season is vital because of finances. People are saying to allow this season to finish cancel the Euro’s, cancel the League Cup, cancel the FA Cup, cancel the European competitions, etc. This is the problem with the PL, it’s like it’s all that matters. The Euro’s are a huge spectator event and bring in loads of money to UEFA that’s passed onto FAs and find’s it’s way back into grass roots footballs. The league cup is one that could probably go without much fuss. The FA Cup is huge across the football pyramid and not having it could be the nail in the coffin for many clubs. European competition is also a huge money earner. Would be easy to look at clubs like Liverpool and their loss of earnings from the Champions League being cancelled, but what about all the smaller clubs across Europe who qualify for those competitions?

Then look at the EFL. It looks increasingly likely that the EFL can’t finish behind closed doors. Clubs are saying they would go to the wall if they had to pay players without income from match attending fans. If the EFL can’t finish, then relegation isn’t an issue for the PL. So no relegation and Liverpool as pretty much guaranteed winners. All teams would be playing for is differences in prize money and Euro qualification. Sky have already shown an indication that they’ll pay their remaining TV commitments for 19/20 in exchange for more games in future seasons, so finance may not be as big an issue as it could have been.

Of course none of this is ideal, there is no likely win situation for everyone here. It’s a time of complete unknowns and huge complex situations that can’t be resolved until we start to know what the situation is and not what it could be.

[Blackrod]

Don’t see how you can start another season til one is complete. I’d prefer the entire next season to be missed if it meant finishing this one behind closed doors. The whole competition is devalued otherwise.

If it had to end it would have to be based on current league positions with no promotion or relegation but then there will be legal battles. You can’t promote or relegate based on an incomplete season though. The league was scrapped for a few years during the war so I’m sure we can manage missing one full season ( but Sky will have their say). The Football League are being sensible wanting to complete it at all costs which preserved the integrity of that league and will help clubs.

[Spijed]

Then look at the EFL. It looks increasingly likely that the EFL can’t finish behind closed doors. Clubs are saying they would go to the wall if they had to pay players without income from match attending fans.

It is impossible to play the first few months of next season without playing games behind closed doors, so what do you suggest?

Whether we cancel this season or not football with crowds in attendance is a pipe dream without any suitable treatment or vaccine.

[ChorltonCharlie]

It is impossible to play the first few months of next season without playing games behind closed doors, so what do you suggest?

Whether we cancel this season or not football with crowds in attendance is a pipe dream without any suitable treatment or vaccine.

Exactly Spijed! That's my point, there's so many unknowns. I don't have the answers, I'm just posing the kinds of questions the whole of football faces. Decisions cannot be made in isolation and what suits one club/league/competition/country, might not be acceptable to another.

[KateR]

It is impossible to play the first few months of next season without playing games behind closed doors, so what do you suggest?

Whether we cancel this season or not football with crowds in attendance is a pipe dream without any suitable treatment or vaccine.

Personally I see football matches with crowds before there is a vaccine but it's just an opinion.

[Cirrus_Minor]

I can’t even see the league being ready to start next season never mind finishing this season.

[Top Claret]

Finish the season in the best interest of BFC, behind closed doors

[MalaysiaMo]

Given the amount of money involved, it is perhaps staggering that the Premier League appears to have had no contingency plans in place for the possibility of a season being ended prematurely, for whatever reason. Imagine if this season was to restart - with players having minimum preparation and all games behind closed doors - and Burnley losing all their games and ending up relegated? Perhaps not likely, but there again who at Christmas would have though that the US could be brought to its knees in a matter of a few weeks by something as simple as a virus - and our players are unlikely to be Dyche-fit without several weeks of training. In hindsight would those on here pushing for the season to restart be so keen? Because the Premier League involves so much money the programme of matches should only restart once all teams are able to compete fully, and when there is minimum risk to the population more generally. I value the lives of vulnerable people more highly than the bank balances of a few players, their agents and the owners of clubs. And if this causes problems for those that run and profit massively from the Premier League then tough - maybe in future they will use some of the massive profits that have previously lined their pockets to protect against these kinds of problems.

[claret2018]

I’m convinced that we won’t see football back before the start of the start of the 21/22 season, probably behind closed doors to begin with.

Anyone thinking this season will be finished by June is deluded.

[FactualFrank]

So far, 67 want the season to end. 149 want it to be completed.

[ClaretTony]

I’m convinced that we won’t see football back before the start of the start of the 21/22 season, probably behind closed doors to begin with.

Anyone thinking this season will be finished by June is deluded.

A lot of those you consider to be deluded are chief execs of Premier League clubs. Will be interesting what, if anything, comes out of the meeting today.

[mdd2]

Might start mid to late June behind closed doors.

[claret2018]

A lot of those you consider to be deluded are chief execs of Premier League clubs. Will be interesting what, if anything, comes out of the meeting today.

They are so desperate to resume asap they will say/do anything. The PL meetings are kind of irrelevant - it's not up to them when the restart. There's no way football is going to start up whilst everything else is shut down.

I hope I'm wrong obviously.

[ClaretTony]

They are so desperate to resume asap they will say/do anything. The PL meetings are kind of irrelevant - it's not up to them when the restart. There's no way football is going to start up whilst everything else is shut down.

I hope I'm wrong obviously.

I won't be up to them when they restart and that is something they've already agreed on. What they are determined to do is finish the season when it is safe to do so. It's the only course of action for me, I'm not sure how you can start a new season without finishing the previous one, no matter how long it takes.

[Hibsclaret]

The Scottish leagues from the Championship to league 2 have proven that you can stop a season with a club likely relegated with a game in hand and only 2 points from safety....the problem with all these sorts of things is that precedents can be set. They surely can’t just do something different for their premier league so I’m sure there’ll be a farcical restructure of league numbers to stop the said team getting relegated (along with a big club like Hearts most likely).

The last thing we need in England is any kind of similar restructure and we need to finish the season, one way or another, when it’s safe.

[nil_desperandum]

I'm not sure how you can start a new season without finishing the previous one, no matter how long it takes.

That appears to contradict what you posted (in reply to me) at the top of this page. In that post it appeared to me that you felt that if this went on for a year or more then it would change your view.

[mdd2]

Just been looking at the 61-62 season results. We can get this finished in a month once we get the go ahead. We played 11 games between April 3rd and 30th that season, 2 more than the 59-60 season. No problem at all as most only have 9 games to go and 4 have 10 to play

[nil_desperandum]

So far, 67 want the season to end. 149 want it to be completed.

Based on the poll that's a fact, but I think I speak for the 67 when I say 100% would really like it to be completed, but we just don't consider it to be very likely in the short term, and the longer it goes on then cancelling becomes the most likely and almost inevitable option.
Does anyone really want to complete this season starting say August 2021, when we could actually be starting a full season at that point?
That's an entirely hypothetical scenario of course before someone accuses me of speculating and pulling a random date out of the air.
But to be clear, I don't think any of the 67 actually "wants" the season to be voided.

[ClaretTony]

That appears to contradict what you posted (in reply to me) at the top of this page. In that post it appeared to me that you felt that if this went on for a year or more then it would change your view.

Doesn't contradict at all - more you looking for something that really isn't there, but the more I think about it, the more I think the season should be finished, no matter what.

[nil_desperandum]

Doesn't contradict at all - more you looking for something that really isn't there, but the more I think about it, the more I think the season should be finished, no matter what.

Fair enough. That's how your previous post read to me, but I must have misunderstood.
So just to be clear: if it came to it, (which I don't think it will to be fair), you'd prefer to restart the current 2019 / 20 season as late as the autumn of 2021 (or even beyond) rather than making a fresh start?
I just don't see that as an option myself for all sorts of reasons. For a start, a lot of clubs in the lower divisions would probably be out of business by then and therefore unable to complete the season. That would mean that lots of fixtures / results would be voided anyway. But I can think of lots of other reasons.

[ChorltonCharlie]

The problem with these discussions on this and other threads is that people are making assumptions and speculating on what might happen before they give an opinion on what should happen. It just sends the discussion around in circles. Similar to what nil says, you'd think the majority of decent football fans would have a Utopian view that this season should finish with match going fans and next season should also go ahead as normal. All of this of course with the health of the nation as paramount importance.

About the only thing that's certain though is that can't happen. Everything else has huge question marks.

[Dy1geo]

There has to be a cut off point put in to the 19/20 season here and in Europe. UEFA have provisionally put 29th August as the date of the final and I think if it’s not played then that will be it as the Champions League for 20/21 will be due to be started thus there needs to be a date when all the leagues around Europe will have to in place their qualified teams.

I expect this season to be finished probably behind closed doors but if there are pictures of numpties gathered around grounds or even in large groups the pressure from the non footballing community to put an end to the matches will be loud.

As for crowds back at matches it will depend on any spike and I would like the club to announce where we stand regarding our season tickets if a large part of 20/21 is played behind closed doors.

[ClaretTony]

The problem with these discussions on this and other threads is that people are making assumptions and speculating on what might happen before they give an opinion on what should happen. It just sends the discussion around in circles. Similar to what nil says, you'd think the majority of decent football fans would have a Utopian view that this season should finish with match going fans and next season should also go ahead as normal. All of this of course with the health of the nation as paramount importance.

About the only thing that's certain though is that can't happen. Everything else has huge question marks.

I'm sure now that when they do restart the season it will be behind closed doors. Goodness knows when it will be safe to do so.

[ChorltonCharlie]

The problem still remains Tony, that it's just assumed the authorities will let that happen. If you were the police chief of the force where Liverpool are expected to claim the first title for 30 years, what would you think about thousands of fans turning up in your city to watch a game they can't get access? Apart from the Covid 19 risks there when we'd still be under some kind of lockdown, there's other health and safety risks.

I'm sure they will find a way to play behind closed doors if it comes to that, but I don't think it's as simple as the PL saying we'll just play behind closed doors to get the season finished. There'll be public authorities and the government that will need to agree that the reward is worth the risk.

[AfloatinClaret]

None of the above.

I believe the fairest option is to treat the football season like a motorcycle race, so as we're past 2/3 distance, the standings at the end of the last completed lap/weekend are the final result; I accept that's perhaps what option-2 proposes, but in my scenario, there has to be some special proviso to avoid promoting the Bell Enders

[Darthlaw]

For a start, a lot of clubs in the lower divisions would probably be out of business by then and therefore unable to complete the season.

Some PL clubs will be to the wall if there is no PL sponsorship money or gate receipts until summer 2021.

[Spijed]

How do they allocate prize money if the season is voided and how are European places going to be decided?

[FactualFrank]

None of the above.

I believe the fairest option is to treat the football season like a motorcycle race, so as we're past 2/3 distance, the standings at the end of the last completed lap/weekend are the final result; I accept that's perhaps what option-2 proposes, but in my scenario, there has to be some special proviso to avoid promoting the Bell Enders

Fair or not, it would produce a legal nightmare, which would no doubt last longer than a football season and cause even more delays.

[Dy1geo]

Some PL clubs will be to the wall if there is no PL sponsorship money or gate receipts until summer 2021.

Sadly that’s how it is for many sectors in the Leisure industry, travel agents for instance will go the wall if no holidays are booked.

Even if crowds are allowed back in, those clubs that rely heavily on gate receipts should be preparing for lower attendance as people will stay away especially if this virus is still prevalent.

What will happen is that there will be a gradual adjustment on costs with wages being the highest proportion.

[FactualFrank]

Does anyone really want to complete this season starting say August 2021, when we could actually be starting a full season at that point?

I guess it depends what can and can't be done. As far as I'm aware, there's nothing stopping there being a roll on effect until we've caught up. So in your example, as unlikely as it is, I'd sooner we completed this season and then work on reducing the time it takes to complete next season - make domestic cup competitions 1 leg, play twice a week when it would normally be once a week, cancel winter break for 1 season, reduce summer break etc - that's just random examples, but I'm quite sure next season could be played quicker than it normally does and eventually, we'd catch up.

[Darthlaw]

What will happen is that there will be a gradual adjustment on costs with wages being the highest proportion.

In terms of PL teams, with player contracts being set in stone and no broadcasting money to pay them, there won't be opportunity for a 'gradual adjustment'. Simply enough, if broadcasting money is disrupted in any way plenty of clubs will be gone, BFC included.

For clubs lower down the pyramid, with dependence on gate receipts, I really can't see a way they'll be able to survive without the universal cancelling of player contracts which has been discussed.

[mdd2]

I guess it depends what can and can't be done. As far as I'm aware, there's nothing stopping there being a roll on effect until we've caught up. So in your example, as unlikely as it is, I'd sooner we completed this season and then work on reducing the time it takes to complete next season - make domestic cup competitions 1 leg, play twice a week when it would normally be once a week, cancel winter break for 1 season, reduce summer break etc - that's just random examples, but I'm quite sure next season could be played quicker than it normally does and eventually, we'd catch up.

And perhaps relax the 25 squad size

[nil_desperandum]

None of the above.

I believe the fairest option is to treat the football season like a motorcycle race, so as we're past 2/3 distance, the standings at the end of the last completed lap/weekend are the final result; I accept that's perhaps what option-2 proposes, but in my scenario, there has to be some special proviso to avoid promoting the Bell Enders

But in a motorcycle race you don't have teams with games in hand, so how do you legislate for that? How could it be fair?
How would Villa and Sheff U react?
In League 1 Wycombe W have 2 games in hand. Win one and draw one of those and they move up from 8th to 2nd.

[Dy1geo]

In terms of PL teams, with player contracts being set in stone and no broadcasting money to pay them, there won't be opportunity for a 'gradual adjustment'. Simply enough, if broadcasting money is disrupted in any way plenty of clubs will be gone, BFC included.

For clubs lower down the pyramid, with dependence on gate receipts, I really can't see a way they'll be able to survive without the universal cancelling of player contracts which has been discussed.

I am in agreement with you and I think that is why players especially those in Premier League in contract should think about taking a pay cut especially if this situation drags on. What would gripe me is if we carry on as though it’s business as normal with regards those out of contract offering large wages again only for the club to plead poverty in a few months time.

I was only young but I vaguely remember us paying what was considered to be large wages on players like Joe Gallagher only for us to nearly go to the wall a few years later.

The EPL should today vote on a Salary cap for the next three seasons.

[nil_desperandum]

I guess it depends what can and can't be done. As far as I'm aware, there's nothing stopping there being a roll on effect until we've caught up. So in your example, as unlikely as it is, I'd sooner we completed this season and then work on reducing the time it takes to complete next season - make domestic cup competitions 1 leg, play twice a week when it would normally be once a week, cancel winter break for 1 season, reduce summer break etc - that's just random examples, but I'm quite sure next season could be played quicker than it normally does and eventually, we'd catch up.

Well yes, but it would all have to be in sync with all the other European Leagues and our own lower leagues otherwise there's no promotion or relegation or European involvement. And that's the biggest problem (IMO). It's not like (e.g.) reopening cinemas or theatres where there' no inter-dependency).

[ChorltonCharlie]

Well yes, but it would all have to be in sync with all the other European Leagues and our own lower leagues otherwise there's no promotion or relegation or European involvement. And that's the biggest problem (IMO). It's not like (e.g.) reopening cinemas or theatres where there' no inter-dependency).

Exactly, and there's also the dependency on lower leagues and domestic cup competitions. For instance the FA Cup started this season on the 10th August. Appreciate that in general Frank is suggesting things that would appear to be mainly about what the PL can do, but everything is inter-dependent. It's not like the 2022/23 season when the impact of the winter World Cup can be factored in with plenty of planning.

[ClaretTony]

The problem still remains Tony, that it's just assumed the authorities will let that happen. If you were the police chief of the force where Liverpool are expected to claim the first title for 30 years, what would you think about thousands of fans turning up in your city to watch a game they can't get access? Apart from the Covid 19 risks there when we'd still be under some kind of lockdown, there's other health and safety risks.

I'm sure they will find a way to play behind closed doors if it comes to that, but I don't think it's as simple as the PL saying we'll just play behind closed doors to get the season finished. There'll be public authorities and the government that will need to agree that the reward is worth the risk.

Absolutely there will be authorities who will need to agree it but the new season can’t start until then so when it is clear the league can finish this season first, have a very short break and then start the new season.

When? We don’t know.

[ClaretTony]

Well yes, but it would all have to be in sync with all the other European Leagues and our own lower leagues otherwise there's no promotion or relegation or European involvement. And that's the biggest problem (IMO). It's not like (e.g.) reopening cinemas or theatres where there' no inter-dependency).

Nothing has to be in sync with other leagues. The FA have already shown that by voiding the season below the National Leagues while Belgium have done likewise with all their leagues.

[nyclaret]

From a source at Crystal Palace:

Premier league coming back end of May, all games played at neutral stadium in Birmingham, 3 games a day every day all on tv behind closed doors - 9 weeks

Next season supposed to start at normal time

[nil_desperandum]

Nothing has to be in sync with other leagues. The FA have already shown that by voiding the season below the National Leagues while Belgium have done likewise with all their leagues.

So, if PL doesn't sync with EFL then how can there be promotion or relegation?, and there has to be some element of sync with the major European Leagues otherwise how can our teams participate in Champs League and Europa League.
The example of Belgium that you give is a poor one. They only had one game left to play, so sensibly abandoned it, but to an extent they're already "in sync" because their season's finished and they know who's in Champs League etc, so they can now simply wait for the rest of Europe and they're ready whenever.

[FactualFrank]

From a source at Crystal Palace:

Premier league coming back end of May, all games played at neutral stadium in Birmingham, 3 games a day every day all on tv behind closed doors - 9 weeks

Next season supposed to start at normal time

Be good if all games are shown on tv!

[ClaretTony]

So, if PL doesn't sync with EFL then how can there be promotion or relegation?, and there has to be some element of sync with the major European Leagues otherwise how can our teams participate in Champs League and Europa League.
The example of Belgium that you give is a poor one. They only had one game left to play, so sensibly abandoned it, but to an extent they're already "in sync" because their season's finished and they know who's in Champs League etc, so they can now simply wait for the rest of Europe and they're ready whenever.

If PL doesn’t sync with the Football League it will have to sync in the same way as the National Leagues with the leagues below it.

[dsr]

So, if PL doesn't sync with EFL then how can there be promotion or relegation?, and there has to be some element of sync with the major European Leagues otherwise how can our teams participate in Champs League and Europa League.
The example of Belgium that you give is a poor one. They only had one game left to play, so sensibly abandoned it, but to an extent they're already "in sync" because their season's finished and they know who's in Champs League etc, so they can now simply wait for the rest of Europe and they're ready whenever.

Norway play in summer, most of Europe plays in winter. It doesn't stop their clubs playing in the European competitions.

[Spijed]

So, if PL doesn't sync with EFL then how can there be promotion or relegation?, and there has to be some element of sync with the major European Leagues otherwise how can our teams participate in Champs League and Europa League.
The example of Belgium that you give is a poor one. They only had one game left to play, so sensibly abandoned it, but to an extent they're already "in sync" because their season's finished and they know who's in Champs League etc, so they can now simply wait for the rest of Europe and they're ready whenever.

Belgium had one game to play before they started their play-offs, which seem complicated.