Coronavirus and the response

[Quickenthetempo]

But I think that’s one of the failings. The fairly mild messages coming from ‘government spokespeople’ didn’t emphasise the seriousness of the situation soon enough.

I don't know if we're equipped to deal with strong warnings straight away. The police don't have the powers of other nations to keep people inside or give them a walloping like some are doing o back them up.
If the country rebelled against strong measures straight away we might never of recovered.

I can see a case for all timings though.

[martin_p]

C4411CE9-1EF0-4F79-A3E2-F80C4FBF870C.jpeg (148.15 KiB) Viewed 1917 times

[martin_p]

I don't know if we're equipped to deal with strong warnings straight away. The police don't have the powers of other nations to keep people inside or give them a walloping like some are doing o back them up.
If the country rebelled against strong measures straight away we might never of recovered.

I can see a case for all timings though.

I don’t think it necessarily needed the police, just a stronger message earlier, delivered by the PM.

[TVC15]

Some idiot who lives on Cog Lane - 22 or 23 year old - has just got a 1 year prison sentence for repeatedly spitting at the police and telling them he had the virus.
And those police are having to deal with this without any PPE....you are right though in a lot of other countries he would have got the living sh-it kicked out of him and then prison for longer.

[thatdberight]

Some idiot who lives on Cog Lane - 22 or 23 year old - has just got a 1 year prison sentence for repeatedly spitting at the police and telling them he had the virus.
And those police are having to deal with this without any PPE....you are right though in a lot of other countries he would have got the living sh-it kicked out of him and then prison for longer.

I'm surprised the court isn't still "awaiting reports" before giving him a pat on the head.

[Jakubclaret]

Some idiot who lives on Cog Lane - 22 or 23 year old - has just got a 1 year prison sentence for repeatedly spitting at the police and telling them he had the virus.
And those police are having to deal with this without any PPE....you are right though in a lot of other countries he would have got the living sh-it kicked out of him and then prison for longer.

On that particular issue nobody should be without, it’s a problem with the bus drivers as well having no Perspex shields & other workers, You are actually well within your rights refusing to do actual jobs without adequate protection. The young person spitting will be a isolated case far & few but nevertheless completely unacceptable I’m glad the law are going down hard on this, on LBC last night it was mentioned somebody got 6mths but that was for coughing.

[TVC15]

On that particular issue nobody should be without, it’s a problem with the bus drivers as well having no Perspex shields & other workers, You are actually well within your rights refusing to do actual jobs without adequate protection. The young person spitting will be a isolated case far & few but nevertheless completely unacceptable I’m glad the law are going down hard on this, on LBC last night it was mentioned somebody got 6mths but that was for coughing.

A bus driver might refuse to work but it’s easier for them to socially distance and they are not getting threatened either.
For the police they are kind of in the same position as nurses / doctors and refusing to work would be a very tough decision for them which is why so few if any have done so out of the millions on the frontline.
In terms of the number of cases they are not as isolated as you think - all forces are getting examples but it’s only the ones that get to court are getting the publicity. If somebody spat or coughed at the police deliberately in the knowledge that they may be spreading the virus then that in itself without mentioning they have the virus would probably not end up in court or if it did would not receive a prison sentence even if the intention was clear (of course they don’t know whether they have the virus or not when doing this)

[AndrewJB]

https://www.ft.com/content/3c9cf7d0-3d1 ... 11b333fd72

I’ve searched and searched and found nothing to suggest Gove was being honest when he claimed we don’t have enough reagents.

[Jakubclaret]

A bus driver might refuse to work but it’s easier for them to socially distance and they are not getting threatened either.
For the police they are kind of in the same position as nurses / doctors and refusing to work would be a very tough decision for them which is why so few if any have done so out of the millions on the frontline.
In terms of the number of cases they are not as isolated as you think - all forces are getting examples but it’s only the ones that get to court are getting the publicity. If somebody spat or coughed at the police deliberately in the knowledge that they may be spreading the virus then that in itself without mentioning they have the virus would probably not end up in court or if it did would not receive a prison sentence even if the intention was clear (of course they don’t know whether they have the virus or not when doing this)

You can’t socially distance when you are boxed in a cab dealing with change, without adequate protection all workers are at some degrees of risk, more contactless forms of payment are now encouraged, on the just eat website for takeaways if it’s a cash payment envelopes are requested leave on the doorstep, the 1s that are still open. Regarding the front line workers being exposed & abused & needing to work, people offending super strict punishments as we are seeing & hopefully keep seeing need to be consistently dished out, it will soon stop & reduce.

[thatdberight]

https://www.ft.com/content/3c9cf7d0-3d1 ... 11b333fd72

I’ve searched and searched and found nothing to suggest Gove was being honest when he claimed we don’t have enough reagents.

You're on the wrong thread now.

[TVC15]

You can’t socially distance when you are boxed in a cab dealing with change, without adequate protection all workers are at some degrees of risk, more contactless forms of payment are now encouraged, on the just eat website for takeaways if it’s a cash payment envelopes are requested leave on the doorstep, the 1s that are still open. Regarding the front line workers being exposed & abused & needing to work, people offending super strict punishments as we are seeing & hopefully keep seeing need to be consistently dished out, it will soon stop & reduce.

Let’s hope so.
Police are in that pretty unique position though of having to deal with idiots where it often impossible to socially distance given you often have to arrest them and you need them close to you to do this or they will run off !
Plus many of them are drunk or high on drugs - a number of them wanting to fight the police, resisting arrest etc. The very last thing on their mind is socially distancing from the police. These type of incidents are far from rare - they make up the majority of the day to day work of frontline police and they have not reduced during the crisis.

[aggi]

It just highlights the fact we as human beings have flaws, in immediate danger we shouldn't need the government to force us to do things.

I think it was less about the employees though and more about the employers. I know people at my place were complaining that they had to go in but there was no choice as the firm still had the offices open because they were relying on the government guidance on when to shut the office.

EDIT: I'm not saying that this should have been an enforced lockdown as we have now, just firmer guidance to cut down on the number of people interacting and commuting sooner.

[RingoMcCartney]

Just a quick reminder folks-

A lever , over which , a sign saying-

" FOR PERFECTION, IN CASE OF UNPRECEDENTED PANDEMIC, PULL HERE "

Does not exist. Repeat, it does not exist.


Thanks very much , as you were ladies and gents.

[TsarBomba]

Some idiot who lives on Cog Lane - 22 or 23 year old - has just got a 1 year prison sentence for repeatedly spitting at the police and telling them he had the virus.
And those police are having to deal with this without any PPE....you are right though in a lot of other countries he would have got the living sh-it kicked out of him and then prison for longer.

This is becoming a daily occurrence. For once, I am heartened by the custodial sentences being dished out.

We just don’t have the numbers to enforce the lockdown effectively at the moment. Especially now we’re getting slammed with domestics and mental health calls.

There are groups everywhere, certainly in my part of London, and there isn’t the resources to disperse them. Two of us were surrounded by about 8-10 gang members the other day, so i had to withdraw before I got my head kicked in.

The legislation has been rushed through, which I accept is indicative of the circumstances we are in, but there are loopholes and interpretations which make it weak, and in practical terms, difficult to enforce. It’ll be enforced to some degree and hopefully it’s enough!

We still don’t have any PPE, but I accept there are challenges in getting it, and I’d much prefer it go to frontline NHS staff first.

Hope everyone is doing ok in the lockdown. Stay safe.

[TVC15]

This is becoming a daily occurrence. For once, I am heartened by the custodial sentences being dished out.

We just don’t have the numbers to enforce the lockdown effectively at the moment. Especially now we’re getting slammed with domestics and mental health calls.

There are groups everywhere, certainly in my part of London, and there isn’t the resources to disperse them. Two of us were surrounded by about 8-10 gang members the other day, so i had to withdraw before I got my head kicked in.

The legislation has been rushed through, which I accept is indicative of the circumstances we are in, but there are loopholes and interpretations which make it weak, and in practical terms, difficult to enforce. It’ll be enforced to some degree and hopefully it’s enough!

We still don’t have any PPE, but I accept there are challenges in getting it, and I’d much prefer it go to frontline NHS staff first.

Hope everyone is doing ok in the lockdown. Stay safe.

Yep that’s pretty much spot on with what my daughter who is also in the police tells me for those out on response.
Thanks for what you do every day and stay safe too.

[Taffy on the wing]

I'm genuinely interested to hear peoples views on what the government should of done sooner?

Would the country have gone into lock down a month earlier with no reported cases?
I don't think they would considering the likes of window cleaners and other non essential jobs are still working (money needed/priority)
Cost of billions to the economy every day not functioning properly.

Order more PPE for the NHS?
I presume the high paid managers who purchase stock had the same warning?

Testing kits? The controversial one.
They decided most people could just get better at home by self isolating and not pass it on, if they had it or not wasn't really an issue. Serious cases would go to hospital anyhow.
Testing NHS or keyworkers would be beneficial but would they have to be tested after every shift or just the ones coming back into work who thought they had it?

I don't think we will be able to judge until it's over but It's a massive job they have got on their hands.

Compare the UK and US death rates to Germany's......they have a well funded health system & they prepared in advance, set up testing sites, trained staff in how to deal with a Pandemic etc etc....Oh and PPE for Hospital staff. All done without the Draconian lockdown which became necessary in the UK due to Boris's waffling and lying.

[Quickenthetempo]

Compare the UK and US death rates to Germany's......they have a well funded health system & they prepared in advance, set up testing sites, trained staff in how to deal with a Pandemic etc etc....Oh and PPE for Hospital staff. All done without the Draconian lockdown which became necessary in the UK due to Boris's waffling and lying.

Are German hospitals private and if so will Corona Virus sufferers get free treatment?

[Devils_Advocate]

Are German hospitals private and if so will Corona Virus sufferers get free treatment?

The German system ensures free healthcare for all so yes everyone who suffers from Corona Virus in Germany will get free treatment covered by whatever policy they are on

[Paul Waine]

It's clear that the Government's pathological dislike of funding NHS resources responsibly, whether materials or humans, is now coming back to bite them - and us - on the arse.
Still, a bit of clapping tonight should make it all OK.

Should we change our health system after this? Move to a set up similar to Germany and some of the other major European countries?

[Paul Waine]

The German system ensures free healthcare for all so yes everyone who suffers from Corona Virus in Germany will get free treatment covered by whatever policy they are on

German health care is insurance based. Yes, everyone has compulsory insurance. I was in a hospital in Austria last month. You visit the accounts department on the way out. I had a bill for overnight stay/food (about £25). EHIC card covered the rest. It would have been covered by my travel insurance if I didn't have EHIC (or next year).

There was information in the Austrian hospital's "brochure" about how patients from Germany would pay for their treatment - reference to insurance policy and such.

Similar system in Netherlands, where I lived some years back. First question and greeting, on entering "Erste Hulpe" (A&E) was "how are you going to pay?"

Don't fall for this idea that people in other countries get their health care for free.

[Paul Waine]

Are German hospitals private and if so will Corona Virus sufferers get free treatment?

I put a link on the covid-19 thread that explained how German health are works.

There is no government run "national health system." Provision is organised around individual states. Major hospitals are linked to universities. There are also private hospitals. Health insurance is compulsory. Some costs are paid directly by the patient.

I'm sure Germany has responded a lot faster to some of the covid-19 issues because they don't have a centralised Dept of Health telling the hospitals/doctors what to do, when to do it, what not to do etc.

Yes, health insurance plus patient direct payments results in higher funding, overall for the German system.

And, I'm pretty sure when Germany counts their ventilators and all other resources they don't make a distinction between "state owned" and "non-state owned" whether the latter is "charity" run or run "for profit." In the UK we just count the NHS and seem to forget about the resources in private heath care.

[Devils_Advocate]

German health care is insurance based. Yes, everyone has compulsory insurance. I was in a hospital in Austria last month. You visit the accounts department on the way out. I had a bill for overnight stay/food (about £25). EHIC card covered the rest. It would have been covered by my travel insurance if I didn't have EHIC (or next year).

There was information in the Austrian hospital's "brochure" about how patients from Germany would pay for their treatment - reference to insurance policy and such.

Similar system in Netherlands, where I lived some years back. First question and greeting, on entering "Erste Hulpe" (A&E) was "how are you going to pay?"

Don't fall for this idea that people in other countries get their health care for free.

Steady on there youre reading a little to deeply into my simple post. Based on the fact everyone has compulsory insurance then everyone as part of that insurance will get free treatment for Coronavirus.

I didnt state or imply anything else and have no interest in the dissection of the German healthcare system so please bugger off and leave me alone

[Taffy on the wing]

Are German hospitals private and if so will Corona Virus sufferers get free treatment?

The difference is Germany funds it's healthcare system properly.

[Quickenthetempo]

The difference is Germany funds it's healthcare system properly.

Tell me more. I'm listening.

How?

[Funkydrummer]

Speaking of idiots and of large gatherings, as well as the violent conduct :-

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... eet-brawl/

[aggi]

Hancock jumping on the Premier League Footballers should take a pay cut bandwagon was pretty pathetic today. Hopefully that isn't an indicator that they will be taking a more populist approach.

[taio]

Hancock jumping on the Premier League Footballers should take a pay cut bandwagon was pretty pathetic today. Hopefully that isn't an indicator that they will be taking a more populist approach.

He was asked a specific question so he answered it - he didn't bring it up.

[Taffy on the wing]

Tell me more. I'm listening.

How?

They give their health service the money it needs to do the job PROPERLY.
Why is this hard for you to understand?

[aggi]

He was asked a specific question so he answered it - he didn't bring it up.

Indeed, but given how many other times he'd avoided answering a question there wasn't any real need for this to be the one he gave a definitive answer to.

[aggi]

Is it the governments job to order PPE though? The NHS is overloaded with management, why are they not being brought to task about shortages?

On this point, I was talking to someone (online) who knows a lot more about it than me.

The basic principle seems to be that each Trust has a procurement team who manage ordering, supply delivery and storage of products in the hospital. Most routine stuff comes from NHS Supply Chain from a national catalogue so if a hospital carries 2 weeks of stock on average they would have a weekly delivery of a weeks stock so that there was always a local buffer to prevent any chance of stocks running out.

For pandemic preparedness stuff this would be done on a national basis as that ensures that there is resilience nationally.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

The whole thing has seen the disappearance of a lot of the front bench. What’s happened to the Home Secretary?

[tim_noone]

The whole thing has seen the disappearance of a lot of the front bench. What’s happened to the Home Secretary?

All safe in a Bunker somewhere...

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

All safe in a Bunker somewhere...

Wearing full protective suits!

[evensteadiereddie]

As more NHS staff die, the less we'll see of the front bench, I'm afraid.

[kritichris]

On a different note I've been going out on my pushbike for a hour every afternoon and up until today the roads have been very quiet, however this afternoon there has been a marked increase in vehicular activity. Looks like people are getting fed up staying in and its only been 2 weeks.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

On a different note I've been going out on my pushbike for a hour every afternoon and up until today the roads have been very quiet, however this afternoon there has been a marked increase in vehicular activity. Looks like people are getting fed up staying in and its only been 2 weeks.

I’ve been taking the dog out on the daily walk and also noticed the increase in traffic today. Doesn’t bode well with a warm weekend coming up.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

They give their health service the money it needs to do the job PROPERLY.
Why is this hard for you to understand?

Maybe you should answer the question properly instead.
The German healthcare system isn't funded like the NHS, its mainly funded through health insurance etc.

See link.

https://www.expatica.com/de/healthcare/ ... 2020-03-23

[dougcollins]

A some have already said we were in a position to follow China and South Korea, but we chose the path of Italy and Spain.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

A some have already said we were in a position to follow China and South Korea, but we chose the path of Italy and Spain.

China are lying over their numbers...
Culturally Korea and China are different to the West.

We are having gradual lockdown changes and people are refusing to follow the rules, filming themselves challenging police and claiming we are turning into a police state....
Instant lockdown in the UK was not going to work.

[Taffy on the wing]

Maybe you should answer the question properly instead.
The German healthcare system isn't funded like the NHS, its mainly funded through health insurance etc.

See link.

https://www.expatica.com/de/healthcare/ ... 2020-03-23

Germans have a modern, well funded healthcare system! If you are as poor as dirt, you are still covered. You pay approx 15% of your gross pay into the national fund and it's matched by your employer. This was the case in the UK when i worked there (i think). If you are wealthy you can go private.
Germany set up testing sites early and widely and can now do 160,000 per week ...way ahead of other countries including the US and UK.....Testing catches the Asymptomatic positives who are spreading the Virus unknowingly and catching people before the get very ill. They are doing a better job of it!

They also don't have Matt Hancock lying and blathering his way out of explaining why people can't get tested in the UK....not even frontline workers.
It's like watching a shell game, 30,000 respirators becomes 80 or "our target" is 250,000 tests per week .....when they haven't conducted that many in total. They are making it up as they go along......the **** is hitting the fan, they are unprepared..... and a lot of people are going to die because of it!

[Bordeauxclaret]

Where is Priti Patel? Shouting at herself in the mirror?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 46381.html

[Taffy on the wing]

Unbelievably stupid!........Dereliction of duty?

[Taffy on the wing]

https://nyti.ms/2JEVPH6
For the attention of Godisadeejay
Here is some reportage on the same, from a real Newspaper......with real reporters.

[aggi]

As the other Coronavirus thread appeared to have gone a bit mental when I looked at it yesterday I thought I'd resurrect this.

Interesting to see some calls for an end to the triple lock on pensions to help fund this. It's a thorn that will have to be grasped at some point and this may be the most politically opportune time.

[Jakubclaret]

It’s got it’s place for people specialising in the science of the subject.

[thatdberight]

As the other Coronavirus thread appeared to have gone a bit mental when I looked at it yesterday I thought I'd resurrect this.

Interesting to see some calls for an end to the triple lock on pensions to help fund this. It's a thorn that will have to be grasped at some point and this may be the most politically opportune time.

Definitely. Should have been done before.

"Politically opportune" is a bit loaded but certainly making sure some of the burden is borne by pensioners is sensible.