Wan-Bissaka vs McNeil With Rio Ferdinand

[nyclaret]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hesUKwDsPQY
Our boy Dwight interviewed by Rio Ferdinand from his family home. Interesting watch!

[tim_noone]

Can't stand Ferdinand's juvenile street talk Sh!t bro .....grow up you plank.

[Spiral]

Can't stand Ferdinand's juvenile street talk Sh!t bro .....grow up you plank.

Cannot express how much I absolutely do not want to make this thread political, tim, but that is respectability politics right there. Let me digress. People who speak with our accent (assuming you're from the north yourself) are often denied a kind of respect and consideration of viewpoint which is afforded without condition to a posh arsehole saying, in practical terms, the exact same thing in a fashion which is considered by our culture to be less coarse. A grand keynote speech, for instance, would be better received if delivered in a southern accent, with all the gesture and intonation expected by a British public conditioned to feel more comfortable being spoken down to by posh folks, than if word-for-word delivered in a northern, Scottish or Welsh accent. Extreme example: some toffee nosed posh boy with his classics degree invoking Cicero to make someone feel small, when flat-out calling someone a f.ucking w@nker would have had the same practical effect. Generally speaking, one line of attack might considered an intelligent polemic, the other a vulgar slur. But the end result is the same. One arsehole feels big, the other is made to feel small.

The chauvinism and snobbery you're showing towards Ferdinand's vernacular is but a different flavour of the brand of snobbery which comparatively presses down folk with our accent and denies them the kind of opportunities in life that more 'polished' people are granted, even if those with more polish are (as they sometimes turn out to be) morons, psychopaths and chancers. I know Ferdinand has done well for himself and he almost certainly won't care for your opinion, or mine, or anyone's for that matter, but in general, at the risk of sounding like an overbearingly didactic preacher, you should consider if your behaviour and attitudes are entrenching a type of classist snobbery. Sure, he talks differently to us, but by saying 'STOP', or expressing discontent or annoyance tantamount to it, you're telling him to get in a box - the same kind of box we're effectively told to get into when we're told we're not good enough because we say 'reyt' and 'nowt'. We're given patronising platitudes like "they're honest" and "they're nice and friendly up north", "salt of the earth". But deviate from the stereotype for just one second any you're an aggressive, uncultured pleb, or even a chav. A lot of people are asking for judgement on account of their behaviour, sure, but don't ever judge a person by their language.

/end of rant

[Aclaret]

I say old boy, that's one super rant.

[Spiral]

I say old boy, that's one super rant.

I feel better already for it!

[Claretmatt4]

I was fully behind it until i read 'didactic'.

Reckon my vocabulary is decent but cba looking that one up.

[superdimitri]

McNeils favourite players on Fifa are Taylor and Long

[Darnhill Claret]

I interpreted that as being the two best players of the game at our club as I thought Rio responded by saying he’d have to get them on board, as in , invite them to play.

[Heathclaret]

Cannot express how much I absolutely do not want to make this thread political, tim, but that is respectability politics right there. Let me digress. People who speak with our accent (assuming you're from the north yourself) are often denied a kind of respect and consideration of viewpoint which is afforded without condition to a posh arsehole saying, in practical terms, the exact same thing in a fashion which is considered by our culture to be less coarse. A grand keynote speech, for instance, would be better received if delivered in a southern accent, with all the gesture and intonation expected by a British public conditioned to feel more comfortable being spoken down to by posh folks, than if word-for-word delivered in a northern, Scottish or Welsh accent. Extreme example: some toffee nosed posh boy with his classics degree invoking Cicero to make someone feel small, when flat-out calling someone a f.ucking w@nker would have had the same practical effect. Generally speaking, one line of attack might considered an intelligent polemic, the other a vulgar slur. But the end result is the same. One arsehole feels big, the other is made to feel small.

The chauvinism and snobbery you're showing towards Ferdinand's vernacular is but a different flavour of the brand of snobbery which comparatively presses down folk with our accent and denies them the kind of opportunities in life that more 'polished' people are granted, even if those with more polish are (as they sometimes turn out to be) morons, psychopaths and chancers. I know Ferdinand has done well for himself and he almost certainly won't care for your opinion, or mine, or anyone's for that matter, but in general, at the risk of sounding like an overbearingly didactic preacher, you should consider if your behaviour and attitudes are entrenching a type of classist snobbery. Sure, he talks differently to us, but by saying 'STOP', or expressing discontent or annoyance tantamount to it, you're telling him to get in a box - the same kind of box we're effectively told to get into when we're told we're not good enough because we say 'reyt' and 'nowt'. We're given patronising platitudes like "they're honest" and "they're nice and friendly up north", "salt of the earth". But deviate from the stereotype for just one second any you're an aggressive, uncultured pleb, or even a chav. A lot of people are asking for judgement on account of their behaviour, sure, but don't ever judge a person by their language.

/end of rant

Load of rubbish, if he wanted to speak English properly, he has enough money to learn. He wants to talk the way he does because he thinks it keeps him in touch with where he’s from and the people he was friends with.

Just because you speak English properly, doesn’t mean you’re posh.

[Quickenthetempo]

I watched it with my lad.

Too much Man United theme for me.

Shows the worlds apart lifestyle though. AWB was showing off his steam room and gym whilst Dwight had just moved back home and was sharing a bedroom with his brother.

[Corky]

Spiral is completely correct, sadly, Heathclaret is wrong. The beauty of the English language is its ability to evolve. We don't have people saying words like thee and thou anymore. No longer do people put your obedient servant at the end of official letters. The list is as they say endless.

But you do get people adapting their language to suit or fit an occasion. Nothing wrong with that. In this instance it will put the two young players at their ease. Init.

[Heathclaret]

Spiral is completely correct, sadly, Heathclaret is wrong. The beauty of the English language is its ability to evolve. We don't have people saying words like thee and thou anymore. No longer do people put your obedient servant at the end of official letters. The list is as they say endless.

But you do get people adapting their language to suit or fit an occasion. Nothing wrong with that. In this instance it will put the two young players at their ease. Init.

Your arrogance in assuming I’m wrong astounds me.

Perhaps we just disagree. I understand that language evolves, but to say “bruv” and “innit” and other atrocities doesn’t enhance our beautiful language, it destroys it.

I’ve changed my mind, happily, you are wrong.

[tim_noone]

Spiral is completely correct, sadly, Heathclaret is wrong. The beauty of the English language is its ability to evolve. We don't have people saying words like thee and thou anymore. No longer do people put your obedient servant at the end of official letters. The list is as they say endless.

But you do get people adapting their language to suit or fit an occasion. Nothing wrong with that. In this instance it will put the two young players at their ease. Init.

Tha's wrong and Th'a knows it.

[Jakubclaret]

Your arrogance in assuming I’m wrong astounds me.

Perhaps we just disagree. I understand that language evolves, but to say “bruv” and “innit” and other atrocities doesn’t enhance our beautiful language, it destroys it.

I’ve changed my mind, happily, you are wrong.

It does, there’s no need for it, you should be able to to articulate yourself properly without all the hoodlum gangster talk.

[bobinho]

Yeah all this “gangsta” talk is more than a little tiring. It’s not natural like an accent is natural - it’s forced, false and juvenile. When delivered by a middle aged man it’s just sad.

And for the record “your obedient servant” IS still used today....

[TheFamilyCat]

And for the record “your obedient servant” IS still used today....

It's how Ringo signs off his letters to Boris.





Just a bit of fun Ringo, no need to quote an opinion poll.

[tim_noone]

Yeah all this “gangsta” talk is more than a little tiring. It’s not natural like an accent is natural - it’s forced, false and juvenile. When delivered by a middle aged man it’s just sad.

And for the record “your obedient servant” IS still used today....

Yes..it's the juvenile aspect of it. Dialect is surely a different thing regards words like thee and thou. To the programme it was good to see how grounded Dwight was at his parents place.yes he's probably got a posh House somewhere.But he seems very grounded.

[Greenmile]

Do all the people complaining about “gangsta” talk also hate it when folk drop their “h”s or “t”s, or is it just dialects associated with ethnic minority communities that you all have an issue with?

[tim_noone]

Do all the people complaining about “gangsta” talk also hate it when folk drop their “h”s or “t”s, or is it just dialects associated with ethnic minority communities that you all have an issue with?

Mr Ferdinand is British.

[evensteadiereddie]

It's the same deliberate thing in a lot of cases. There's a young lass doing voice-overs on Channel 4 who deliberately and sometimes inconsistently drops het "t"s - oooe, missus - and her artificiality grates just as much as the gangsta crap or folk beginning any sentence or response to a question with "so".
As someone mentioned earlier, the English language is evolving and adapting constantly either at local level or worldwide. Some linguistic fads stick, others fade but race doesn't or shouldn't come into it.

[tim_noone]

It's the same deliberate thing in a lot of cases. There's a young lass doing voice-overs on Channel 4 who deliberately and sometimes inconsistently drops het "t"s - oooe, missus - and her artificiality grates just as much as the gangsta crap or folk beginning any sentence or response to a question with "so".
As someone mentioned earlier, the English language is evolving and adapting constantly either at local level or worldwide. Some linguistic fads stick, others fade but race doesn't or shouldn't come into it.

I had you down as a BBC 4 Geezer? Geezer!

[Greenmile]

Mr Ferdinand is British.

Correct but irrelevant, unless you don’t believe BAME people can be British, in which case subconscious prejudice is the least of your problems.

[Blackrod]

Once you wouldn’t have been anywhere near broadcasting if you couldn’t speak properly or at least clearly. It seems to be the in thing for radio and tv to give them coverage now. I can’t understand half the boxers on the radio so I just turn over.

[Stanbill05]

Middle class white kids talk like Rio round here. I live in the cotswolds. Do you get me cuz? ...Or something. Each to their own...unless your my son then you can leave it on the doorstep!

[Stanbill05]

Of course that should be you’re if I cared about the queen’s england

[bobinho]

Do all the people complaining about “gangsta” talk also hate it when folk drop their “h”s or “t”s, or is it just dialects associated with ethnic minority communities that you all have an issue with?

Really? We are all racist because we find this made up chat juvenile?

[Aclaret]

Eh up, wheres this thread heading to.

[Clarets4me]

Rio Ferdinard has reinvented himself .... He won't want us to remember the 4 driving bans, the ban for missing drug tests, the 10 affairs he allegedly had whilst married, the sex video taken in Ayia Napa, swearing at and kicking a female steward at Chelsea, and the heavy fines for his social media posts .... as for the accent, don't get me started ... mind you, it winds me off the clock when people say " Haitch " instead of H ..

[Bfcboyo]

Do all the people complaining about “gangsta” talk also hate it when folk drop their “h”s or “t”s, or is it just dialects associated with ethnic minority communities that you all have an issue with?

Ahhhh the old offended for anyone by anything crew is out.

It's made up street slang but you wouldn't know that as your out of touch wiv reality bro.

[Greenmile]

Really? We are all racist because we find this made up chat juvenile?

All chat is made up. If you only have an issue with chat made up by ethnic minorities, maybe that’s something for you to think about.

[Greenmile]

Ahhhh the old offended for anyone by anything crew is out.

It's made up street slang but you wouldn't know that as your out of touch wiv reality bro.

Who’s offended here? Looks like it might be you.

Again, all slang (all language, in fact) is “made up”. Why do some folk on here only have a problem when it’s been made up by a certain type of person?

[Rileybobs]

How is using the terms ‘bruv’ or ‘cuz’ any different than mate or pal?

Got to love the fine folk of Burnley, a town renowned for having a very strong regional dialect, criticising someone for not speaking correctly. Ironic beyond belief.

[chipbutty]

"His name is Rio and he drives when he`s ******"
Simon Le Bon

[tim_noone]

How is using the terms ‘bruv’ or ‘cuz’ any different than mate or pal?

Got to love the fine folk of Burnley, a town renowned for having a very strong regional dialect, criticising someone for not speaking correctly. Ironic beyond belief.

I Like People from Manchester saying Manchestaaar..very regional I'm sure innit?

[Hapag Lloyd]

Who’s offended here? Looks like it might be you.

Again, all slang (all language, in fact) is “made up”. Why do some folk on here only have a problem when it’s been made up by a certain type of person?

Stop looking for something that’s not there.

[Rileybobs]

I Like People from Manchester saying Manchestaaar..very regional I'm sure innit?

Not everyone from Manchester speaks the same. People’s dialect is largely formed by the people that they grew up around.

[Heathclaret]

Just for the record, I am not racist, I am married to a white English woman who is originally from Pollards Hill, my father was born in Weir and my mother, she is Dutch, was born in Indonesia and spent the first few years of her life in a Japanese concentration camp. I was born in Ghana and lived in Nigeria for the first sixteen years if my life, we then came to England and then moved to the Isle of Man.

I may not speak English perfectly, but I try my best.

[tim_noone]

Not everyone from Manchester speaks the same. People’s dialect is largely formed by the people that they grew up around.

Exactly that's why most people from Burnley speak with a strong regional accent as you say..I've known guys from Manchester for many years..... Manchestaaar is made up "POP" chat not a regional thing. A bit Like middle aged RIO Talking Like a Young impressionable kid.

[Jakubclaret]

Just for the record, I am not racist, I am married to a white English woman who is originally from Pollards Hill, my father was born in Weir and my mother, she is Dutch, was born in Indonesia and spent the first few years of her life in a Japanese concentration camp. I was born in Ghana and lived in Nigeria for the first sixteen years if my life, we then came to England and then moved to the Isle of Man.

I may not speak English perfectly, but I try my best.

I think most of us realise you aren’t I certainly do, you’ve said nothing racist no one as to be fair, some people are just trying to drag racism & prejudice into the subject when it’s not necessary, it’s got nothing to do with whether somebody can speak English properly or not.

[bobinho]

Just for the record, I am not racist, I am married to a white English woman who is originally from Pollards Hill, my father was born in Weir and my mother, she is Dutch, was born in Indonesia and spent the first few years of her life in a Japanese concentration camp. I was born in Ghana and lived in Nigeria for the first sixteen years if my life, we then came to England and then moved to the Isle of Man.

I may not speak English perfectly, but I try my best.

Isle of Man? That’s just weird.

[Heathclaret]

Isle of Man? That’s just weird.

Never said I wasn’t sexist.




Just kidding.


Not there anymore, we now live in The Shire of Lincoln, but recently spent fourteen years in France.

Truly am a person of the global village

[Greenmile]

Just for the record, I am not racist, I am married to a white English woman who is originally from Pollards Hill, my father was born in Weir and my mother, she is Dutch, was born in Indonesia and spent the first few years of her life in a Japanese concentration camp. I was born in Ghana and lived in Nigeria for the first sixteen years if my life, we then came to England and then moved to the Isle of Man.

I may not speak English perfectly, but I try my best.

What is this perfect form of English that you are striving for?

RP / “The Queens English” sounds pretty ridiculous to my ears, unless it’s coming from someone in a period drama or something. It’s certainly no more perfect than any regional dialect, or even a more cultural one like we’re discussing.

Language is just a tool to impart meaning, and a word like “innit” for example, is a very succinct and efficient way of imparting quite a bit of meaning in two short syllables.

Oh, and just for the record, I haven’t suggested you, or anyone else, is a racist (on this thread, at least).

[Greenmile]

I think most of us realise you aren’t I certainly do, you’ve said nothing racist no one as to be fair, some people are just trying to drag racism & prejudice into the subject when it’s not necessary, it’s got nothing to do with whether somebody can speak English properly or not.

See my post above. There’s no such thing as speaking English “properly”.

[Heathclaret]

See my post above. There’s no such thing as speaking English “properly”.

I don’t really think you believe your own drivel, but if you do.

You is talking shite mate. ( I’m sure you will understand the sentence as it is succinct and efficient in showing your ignorance)

Only in my opinion, of course.

[Greenmile]

I don’t really think you believe your own drivel, but if you do.

You is talking shite mate. ( I’m sure you will understand the sentence as it is succinct and efficient in showing your ignorance)

Only in my opinion, of course.

Maybe you could try answering my question instead of hurling unwarranted abuse?

Just a thought.

[Jakubclaret]

Best ignored, file under troublemaker.

[Heathclaret]

Best ignored, file under troublemaker.

Me?

[Heathclaret]

Maybe you could try answering my question instead of hurling unwarranted abuse?

Just a thought.

Hurling abuse? Really. Is that what I did. I apologise.

I don’t think I can really explain what speaking properly is without you being able to hear me, it would take too long and I’m not sure you would understand.

[Jakubclaret]

Me?

No, I'm on about the other poster causing trouble or trying to.

[Heathclaret]

No, I'm on about the other poster causing trouble or trying to.