Pay cut

[Top Claret]

I will give the players and management until the 20th of this month to come forward with pay cut proposals. If not, I shall cancel my rolling direct debit with club, which pays for my season ticket.

We should take a stand against these greedy selfish bastards and let them and the club no exactly how we feel and vote with our feet.

[ksrclaret]

Poor cast

[Chester Perry]

I will give the players and management until the 20th of this month to come forward with pay cut proposals. If not, I shall cancel my rolling direct debit with club, which pays for my season ticket.

We should take a stand against these greedy selfish bastards and let them and the club no exactly how we feel and vote with our feet.

There are so many issues that need to be worked out for clubs - it takes time, and the players across the league appear to want a collective solution

Clubs are looking for a 12 month cut, how does that factor in to relegation clauses in contracts for example,

You are a player from a poorer part of the world, you want your health contribution to go back to the health service in your home country where your family and friends are

it is not straight forward, you want it to be but it isn't

[Top Claret]

Heard very few, if any players or managers come out in support of a pay cut.

The players have had 4 weeks to show willing and help the football club. I have heard nothing from Ben Mee our club captain and little from Dyche

[ChrisG]

Aye those greedy bastards paying circa £1m per annum in tax and NI contributions, each.

[Top Claret]

Aye those greedy bastards paying circa £1m per annum in tax and NI contributions, each.

I should bloody think so to.

They should take a hit like the rest of the country and not be paying hookers for home visits

[ksrclaret]

Heard very few, if any players or managers come out in support of a pay cut.

The players have had 4 weeks to show willing and help the football club. I have heard nothing from Ben Mee our club captain and little from Dyche

At this moment in time it’s not necessary for our players to take a pay cut. Staff have not been put on furlough and are being paid.

As mentioned, if you cut the players wages you lose government income in taxation, at a time when the government needs every penny it can get.

I’m the last person to rejoice in how much footballers earn, but your demand in the OP doesn’t make any sense at this moment.

[Chester Perry]

I should bloody think so to.

They should take a hit like the rest of the country and not be paying hookers for home visits

that was one of 500 first team squad players in the league - add Grealish it is still 0.2% of stupidity much less than we see in the street or on this board for example

[claretonthecoast1882]

Never a good idea to hit the booze before breakfast

[Top Claret]

I personally have invested time and money into our club over the last 50 plus years.
I don't want the club going back to how we were in the 80s and 90s. The long term future of our club is in jeapordy and we need the support of the players and management.
If the players can see that the fans are kicking up a fuss it may just prick their consunce and make them show willing

[Chester Perry]

I personally have invested time and money into our club over the last 50 plus years.
I don't want the club going back to how we were in the 80s and 90s. The long term future of our club is in jeapordy and we need the support of the players and management.
If the players can see that the fans are kicking up a fuss it may just prick their consunce and make them show willing

The club is their employer and they are on fixed term contracts not permanent, many will have a fondness for it but apart from Jay (who is doing fabulous things with Pendleside Hospice) none have been life long fans - your attachment is very different to theirs

[Top Claret]

I understand what you are saying Chester. I am just pleading to our players to do what is right, the way Leeds United players have done

[Rileybobs]

I understand what you are saying Chester. I am just pleading to our players to do what is right, the way Leeds United players have done

No you’re not. You’re throwing your toys out of the pram. Go ahead and cancel your direct debit, literally no one will care.

[Chester Perry]

I understand what you are saying Chester. I am just pleading to our players to do what is right, the way Leeds United players have done

very different financial situation - suspicion is that Leeds are running at a substantial loss already this situation before the pause

Our club budgets for a small profit and in normal circumstance I would have expected our cash position to be up close to £50m in the end of year accounts

[ChrisG]

I should bloody think so to.

They should take a hit like the rest of the country and not be paying hookers for home visits

Problem is, then the tax man will lose out too, and ergo the NHS.

Take an average salary of say £50k/week. That is £2.6m p/a. Call it 40% tax and NI to be on the conservative side, that is just over £1m a year to the Treasury.

Reduce that salary to 70% and the government is losing out on roughly £300k a year, per player.

Call it 20 players per club, 20 clubs in the league. That's over £100,000,000 a year that would be denied to the treasury...

[thatdberight]

I don't want the club going back to how we were in the 80s and 90s.

Wouldn't mind. It was cheaper, more fun and happened at 3pm every Saturday.

[Top Claret]

Problem is, then the tax man will lose out too, and ergo the NHS.

Take an average salary of say £50k/week. That is £2.6m p/a. Call it 40% tax and NI to be on the conservative side, that is just over £1m a year to the Treasury.

Reduce that salary to 70% and the government is losing out on roughly £300k a year, per player.

Call it 20 players per club, 20 clubs in the league. That's over £100,000,000 a year that would be denied to the treasury...

I get what you are saying. I know I am being selfish, all I care about is the future of Burnley fc.

If my club was the likes of Man City my thoughts would be different, they are owned by billionaires, we aren't

[Paul Waine]

Problem is, then the tax man will lose out too, and ergo the NHS.

Take an average salary of say £50k/week. That is £2.6m p/a. Call it 40% tax and NI to be on the conservative side, that is just over £1m a year to the Treasury.

Reduce that salary to 70% and the government is losing out on roughly £300k a year, per player.

Call it 20 players per club, 20 clubs in the league. That's over £100,000,000 a year that would be denied to the treasury...

Hi ChrisG, marginal rate of income tax and NI for an employee on £50k per week is 47%, 45% income tax and 2% NIC. On top of this the employer also pays 13.8% NIC. So, total tax/gov't share is 60.8%. So, £475,000 per player less to tax if players on £50k take 30% pay cut for 12 months. Just under £190 million using 20 players and 20 clubs.

[Paul Waine]

I've taken 100% pay cut from start of month.

I retired 31st March.

[Rileybobs]

It’s clear to me that this attack on the footballers is driven by bitterness. I’ve not seen anyone provide any calculations or even indicative figures as to what kind of financial benefit footballers taking pay cuts would have on the NHS etc. People just want to penalise footballers because they are jealous of the fortunate position they are in. I haven’t seen anybody on here claim that they would be happy to sacrifice even 1% of their earnings.

[Rileybobs]

Hi ChrisG, marginal rate of income tax and NI for an employee on £50k per week is 47%, 45% income tax and 2% NIC. On top of this the employer also pays 13.8% NIC. So, total tax/gov't share is 60.8%. So, £475,000 per player less to tax if players on £50k take 30% pay cut for 12 months. Just under £190 million using 20 players and 20 clubs.

Yes but at least the footballers would be penalised. Who cares about the loss of tax contributions when we can punish the players.

[jojomk1]

Players don't need to take a pay cut

They can keep their normal wages (paying the tax and NI)

It would go down well if they or the club then donated monies to their local hospitals or other charities

[KateR]

There are several ways to handle all this hysteria but they Players/Union/clubs) need to decide how it will be done first, players individually, players + club, All players via the union in agreement, all PL clubs + players. The final decision is then around do you take it from salary pre or post tax, when decided on the how much from where then you have to factor in in where does the money go. Is it to the government, a charity each player supports, a basket of charities or a collective charity, is there a mechanism where it can go direct to NHS, how would that work? Is it for equipment, is a bonus to all staff, do players really want to give a bonus to senior doctors/surgeons/consultants who are say over 100K/year with a long career, I wouldn't think so personally, I know I wouldn't be happy doing that.

All in all like herding cats for a while, bearing in mind even early March many were not taking this virus serious and PL talking about starting behind doors games, so how long in the end would this cut be for, a month, I wouldn't think it's a year, definitely if you want anything other than players making individual payments it takes quite a while plus like majority of Gov's. and businesses they have started late.

I'm in the wait and see mode for a little while and the big deal for me is our little club has not done the wrong thing with regard to none playing staff, we can't (I believe) ask the board to take a pay cut can we?

[evensteadiereddie]

Let's see our politicians take a pay cut first, after all they've done rather well at the hands of the er, independent pay body responsible for decreeing what they are worth.
The proposed culling of fifty or sixty MPs, a streamlining exercise, has been shelved too, I see.

[ChrisG]

Hi ChrisG, marginal rate of income tax and NI for an employee on £50k per week is 47%, 45% income tax and 2% NIC. On top of this the employer also pays 13.8% NIC. So, total tax/gov't share is 60.8%. So, £475,000 per player less to tax if players on £50k take 30% pay cut for 12 months. Just under £190 million using 20 players and 20 clubs.

That's a massive number. I was using a very conservative fag packet 40% factoring in some creative accounting, but yeah it's a lot of funding to lose...

[wilks_bfc]

It was well reported that all of the captains have been in discussions of the best way of supporting charities

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52151485

[TVC15]

I understand what you are saying Chester. I am just pleading to our players to do what is right, the way Leeds United players have done

What do you believe Leeds players have done ?

They have deferred their wages which is not a pay cut. It basically means that at some point they will get paid what they are owed - even if Leeds go bust they will get paid any wages they have deferred.
If our players did that it might help cash flow but any long term impact or permanent loss of a proportion of this years or next years TV revenue will mean at some point we will still be looking at a huge loss unless the players gave up part of the wage altogether.

99% of footballers in the world have not taken pay cuts at this stage. 99% of managers / coaches haven’t either. And whilst we are at it 99% of high earners in any industry haven’t.
Greed is not good.

Easiest thing is for the government to take the initiative rather than divide society like this is doing. Increase the tax rates above £200k per year by 20% for everyone. Fairest way to do it - it won’t happen of course because those who have to make these decisions are often motivated by exactly the same thing.

[Chester Perry]

Today's Ornstein and Champman podcast looks at the player salary wage cut negotiations - plenty of detail that has not previously been shared

https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0c ... IBxAE&ep=6

[Enty1974]

I will give the players and management until the 20th of this month to come forward with pay cut proposals. If not, I shall cancel my rolling direct debit with club, which pays for my season ticket.

We should take a stand against these greedy selfish bastards and let them and the club no exactly how we feel and vote with our feet.

Bet you dont

[ClaretDiver]

I think many people have jumped on the bandwagon against footballers due to some clubs furloughing their non-playing staff and using taxpayer monies to pay them whereas continuing to pay exhorbitant salaries to the players....

[Dy1geo]

This “treasury would lose x “ if players took a pay cut whilst being technically correct is a red herring in my opinion.

It could be argued then that if Sky Sports increased prices and the club put up prices for ST’s the players could be paid more and even more tax would be paid. Plus Sky would make more profit and even more tax.

The reality is football players are paid the market rate at the time and this is judged by near to full stadiums and TV revenues which has covered the wages and transfer values.

If those revenues fall as I expect them to do the players will have to accept lower salaries going forward

[No Ney Never]

Can't see the point if a pay cut is not benefiting the club.
I thought the idea is that it keeps clubs solvent while income has dropped.

[Rileybobs]

Can't see the point if a pay cut is not benefiting the club.
I thought the idea is that it keeps clubs solvent while income has dropped.

The point is that we can punish the players because they are more successful than us. Who cares about the solvency of the club?

[CoolClaret]

They've put more in to the pot than you could ever dream of doing.

Want someone to go after? Go after the multinational corps & people that have offshore bank accounts in tax havens, Branson etc

[Burnley1989]

The point is that we can punish the players because they are more successful than us. Who cares about the solvency of the club?

My thoughts exactly! The jealousy is ridiculous, there always has to be someone to blame and I guess the latest trend is footballers. I’ve not heard one friend or family complain about it though so I think it’s the press in the main

[Burnley1989]

Another I’ve seen is the national press stating the reason why people shouldn’t be out during in lock down and shows about a dozen people out exercising in a park.

Yet some young journalist with a camera thinks taking pictures is that important that he can flout the rules.

Glad I’ve got those two off my chest haha

[Jakubclaret]

It’s clear to me that this attack on the footballers is driven by bitterness. I’ve not seen anyone provide any calculations or even indicative figures as to what kind of financial benefit footballers taking pay cuts would have on the NHS etc. People just want to penalise footballers because they are jealous of the fortunate position they are in. I haven’t seen anybody on here claim that they would be happy to sacrifice even 1% of their earnings.

Spectacularly missing the point, money doesn't even factor it shouldn't do, you seem to have the obsession that people are singling footballers out & nobody else, the overriding crux point being it's about setting an example & nothing else, seriously underestimating just how far good will goes & potentially tapping into the next generation fanbase as a continued trend, irrespective of where the money ends up, at first impressions sincere intentions are set in stone, a young child doesn't understand about taxes & NI contributions & where the money will end up, he/she might understand a simple act of kindness towards a good cause, memories don't fade sometimes.

[boatshed bill]

It’s clear to me that this attack on the footballers is driven by bitterness. I’ve not seen anyone provide any calculations or even indicative figures as to what kind of financial benefit footballers taking pay cuts would have on the NHS etc. People just want to penalise footballers because they are jealous of the fortunate position they are in. I haven’t seen anybody on here claim that they would be happy to sacrifice even 1% of their earnings.

I'm sacrificing 100% of my earnings, and paying something like £700pm on top. Is that enough?

[Rileybobs]

Spectacularly missing the point, money doesn't even factor it shouldn't do, you seem to have the obsession that people are singling footballers out & nobody else, the overriding crux point being it's about setting an example & nothing else, seriously underestimating just how far good will goes & potentially tapping into the next generation fanbase as a continued trend, irrespective of where the money ends up, at first impressions sincere intentions are set in stone, a young child doesn't understand about taxes & NI contributions & where the money will end up, he/she might understand a simple act of kindness towards a good cause, memories don't fade sometimes.

Jakub, you keep responding to my posts with a load of waffle. I am quite happy to debate a point with you but your posts are illegible and totally irrelevant to the post that you quote.

[Rileybobs]

I'm sacrificing 100% of my earnings, and paying something like £700pm on top. Is that enough?

Is that enough for what? I’m not asking anyone to sacrifice any of their earnings so I’m not sure what you’re getting at? Are you sacrificing your earnings voluntarily or are you out of work? Because the two scenarios are totally different. If you are voluntarily giving up your salary to help ‘the cause’ then that’s hugely commendable, but I still wouldn’t expect it of anybody.

[Jakubclaret]

Jakub, you keep responding to my posts with a load of waffle. I am quite happy to debate a point with you but your posts are illegible and totally irrelevant to the post that you quote.

Can’t be so difficult to comprehend else you wouldn’t be replying, you do because you know valid reasons exists making the debate worthwhile, instead of questioning the essence of the authenticity you could counter my points regarding the pay cuts without digressing elsewhere.

[Rileybobs]

Can’t be so difficult to comprehend else you wouldn’t be replying, you do because you know valid reasons exists making the debate worthwhile, instead of questioning the essence of the authenticity you could counter my points regarding the pay cuts without digressing elsewhere.

You’ve just demonstrated the point I made in my previous response to you.

[Jakubclaret]

You’ve just demonstrated the point I made in my previous response to you.

Agree to disagree on this 1, I’m not going around the houses with you not tonight, I’ve stated my case & we don’t agree, simple as.

[TVC15]

Riley - I think a number of people have said that they would be happy for a temporary increase in income tax. I know I have said I’d be happy to.
That’s just the same impact as pay cuts - far easier to implement and collect, fairer and also gets round certain sectors like football being focused on.

Singling our footballers is inevitable though - they get paid obscene amounts of money and what other sector is so much in the public eye ?....and such a large proportion of the public seem to know their wages too !

People are also focusing on footballers because the bottom line is that they can afford to make a significant contribution to the cause more than most. The average premier league footballer giving up his salary for 5 or 6 months would equate to a million pounds plus.
If I was in a position to make such a contribution to the cause I would - and I would not be waiting for others to make their mind up either. But I’m not in this position but I would be happy to contribute via paying more tax.

[Rileybobs]

Riley - I think a number of people have said that they would be happy for a temporary increase in income tax. I know I have said I’d be happy to.
That’s just the same impact as pay cuts - far easier to implement and collect, fairer and also gets round certain sectors like football being focused on.

Singling our footballers is inevitable though - they get paid obscene amounts of money and what other sector is so much in the public eye ?....and such a large proportion of the public seem to know their wages too !

People are also focusing on footballers because the bottom line is that they can afford to make a significant contribution to the cause more than most. The average premier league footballer giving up his salary for 5 or 6 months would equate to a million pounds plus.
If I was in a position to make such a contribution to the cause I would - and I would not be waiting for others to make their mind up either. But I’m not in this position but I would be happy to contribute via paying more tax.

I haven’t seen many on here that I can recall saying that they would be happy with an increase in income tax that affects them. I may have missed them though. I have seen you suggest it however.

Footballers are of course in a very privileged position but do we know what individual players are donating towards the various worthy causes? The answer is no. Forcing them to take a pay cut is in my mind a crude suggestion, I can understand why people might not agree with me but that’s just my view.

It is also my view that of those people suggesting a pay cut for footballers, I am yet to see someone put some figures to this and demonstrate by how much it would help the cause. Especially bearing in mind the staggering loss of tax revenue.

I get that you’re talking about raising income tax but that’s not what I’m arguing against as this thread is about pay cuts.

[TVC15]

I haven’t seen many on here that I can recall saying that they would be happy with an increase in income tax that affects them. I may have missed them though. I have seen you suggest it however.

Footballers are of course in a very privileged position but do we know what individual players are donating towards the various worthy causes? The answer is no. Forcing them to take a pay cut is in my mind a crude suggestion, I can understand why people might not agree with me but that’s just my view.

It is also my view that of those people suggesting a pay cut for footballers, I am yet to see someone put some figures to this and demonstrate by how much it would help the cause. Especially bearing in mind the staggering loss of tax revenue.

I get that you’re talking about raising income tax but that’s not what I’m arguing against as this thread is about pay cuts.

Pay cuts or higher taxes or players donating some of their salary - it’s all the same principle but it’s not hard for someone to work out which of these is the one that raises the most money.

I’m aware what this thread is about but the public debate should really be about high earners / footballers contributing in the optimum and most beneficial way.

If cutting pay for footballers does mean less money for the government then the only real argument for doing this is to help the football club.
I am not sure with what we are going through that many people would consider it acceptable to help out your football team / employer at the cost of reducing tax revenues.

It does beg the question of how we have ended up here with this debate when you think there would be an optimum solution...unless there is resistance from some footballers to contribute (though once a few agreed to I think this would snowball pretty quickly)

[Rileybobs]

Pay cuts or higher taxes or players donating some of their salary - it’s all the same principle but it’s not hard for someone to work out which of these is the one that raises the most money.

I’m aware what this thread is about but the public debate should really be about high earners / footballers contributing in the optimum and most beneficial way.

If cutting pay for footballers does mean less money for the government then the only real argument for doing this is to help the football club.
I am not sure with what we are going through that many people would consider it acceptable to help out your football team / employer at the cost of reducing tax revenues.

It does beg the question of how we have ended up here with this debate when you think there would be an optimum solution...unless there is resistance from some footballers to contribute (though once a few agreed to I think this would snowball pretty quickly)

Agree with a lot of this in principle. Most comments on here demanding footballers’ pound of flesh don’t really seem to have as put as much thought into this though. It really does seem to be borne from spite and bitterness, which is in some ways understandable considering the circumstances, but still wrong in my opinion.

[claretdj]

If clubs are going to go bust then the players MUST take a reduction to ensure they dont go to the wall. Obviously if not, then keep paying them their 50k a week as I have no problem with it. I just dont want to see a load more Bury fc situations further down the line!

[Chester Perry]

If clubs are going to go bust then the players MUST take a reduction to ensure they dont go to the wall. Obviously if not, then keep paying them their 50k a week as I have no problem with it. I just dont want to see a load more Bury fc situations further down the line!

Most clubs at League 1 and League 2 level have already furloughed all their football staff

[Elizabeth]

This argument is a lot more complicated than some who talk about jealousy, bitterness and punishing players think