UK media & Lockdown

[KateR]

further more another example of our young people, these should not see daylight this summer, just my opinion of course:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-52219080

[Burnley1989]

I walked passed the allotments today near my house and there’s a community garden at the bottom, there was 8 people all over 65 years old sat together. I’ve been impressed with the very few people on the roads and out and about near me but that was alarming, especially when you consider their ages. Also on my dog walk, 3 lads in their 20/30s walking with beers. Neighbours grandson and Son turned up to their house today with fish and chips and walked in their house.

Also spoke to my 85 year old grandad today who has been told on a daily basis he must not leave his house due to his issues to go to the shops, the whole family have waited on him hand and foot. Informed me not to mention it to anyone else in the family but he’d been to the shops for a newspaper and rice pudding today.

I’d been wondering what all the fuss was about people flouting the rules but today made me realise people are still doing it. I’ve been going out for about half an hour a day for a run with the dog and haven’t seen anybody in my friends or family since lockdown, why is it so difficult to follow rules?

[HieronymousBoschHobs]

the weather really does add the complication that might otherwise have really helped had it been the heavy persistent rain I would imagine people going out to be very low.

Many countries have gone full lockdown, some just cities or hotspots, armed forces have been out and about, personally I think that is not a problem, they are not shooting anyone, its not an army/military take over and would be for a short (relative) time. If people had listened to the Gov. day one regarding warning we would have far few deaths by now but it's the nature of the beast, but it has to be beaten one way or another, you have a couple of choices and we will never all agree to the one selected.

I think if they go down that route it needs to be very light touch. Whenever you hear cops on the news they always talk about the tradition in Britain of 'policing by consent'. In Spain, France, Italy things are a bit different - politically they have a different history, so the forceful part of the state culturally has a different role to what it does here. If you look at reports of fan trouble when English teams play in Madrid there's always reports of the cops being a bit heavy handed (albeit mostly with idiots). Johnson talked about the tradition of British liberty in one of his press conferences and it is there - we're the country of Locke, Smith and Mill.

He's got a very different political outlook than me but we've never had a revolution in this country or a dictator (well Cromwell maybe, or the Royals if one were to be argumentative). This isn't English exceptionalism on my part, it's just that for better for worse we've got a different history and when you get crises like this - where the state needs to take drastic action - old memories come to the fore (just look at us with the comparison between this and the Blitz). So I think any PM would be really reluctant to bring the army onto the streets of Britain to enforce rules. Has that ever even happened in this country?

Then again unprecedented times call for unprecedented measures so I really don't know. At this point I'm just sharing some thoughts out of boredom - quite possibly talking absolute ********

[KateR]

why is it so difficult to follow rules?

A universal mystery to me and have no idea.

[KateR]

on a lighter note:

I realized today in regard to my wonderful 4 legged best friend who sadly passed away 10 years ago, when I recently jumped up and excitedly started pointing through the window shouting, look look a racoon, now it's getting to the point of when anything moves I am getting excited just like he used to do, although he didn't bark at what he saw. You get the idea though I'm sure.

[KateR]

Then again unprecedented times call for unprecedented measures so I really don't know. At this point I'm just sharing some thoughts out of boredom - quite possibly talking absolute ********

I think most of us are just sharing thoughts and obviously a wide variety, left field thoughts I always enjoy, I like to ask why and play "what if" etc. At the best we have educated guesses and totally agree with your comparisons with Europe, we are different and have mentioned a couple of times that cultural differences play a part in all of this tragedy.

[tiger76]

I walked passed the allotments today near my house and there’s a community garden at the bottom, there was 8 people all over 65 years old sat together. I’ve been impressed with the very few people on the roads and out and about near me but that was alarming, especially when you consider their ages. Also on my dog walk, 3 lads in their 20/30s walking with beers. Neighbours grandson and Son turned up to their house today with fish and chips and walked in their house.

Also spoke to my 85 year old grandad today who has been told on a daily basis he must not leave his house due to his issues to go to the shops, the whole family have waited on him hand and foot. Informed me not to mention it to anyone else in the family but he’d been to the shops for a newspaper and rice pudding today.

I’d been wondering what all the fuss was about people flouting the rules but today made me realise people are still doing it. I’ve been going out for about half an hour a day for a run with the dog and haven’t seen anybody in my friends or family since lockdown, why is it so difficult to follow rules?

That's anecdotal but it's alarming that so many people are still not realising the urgency of observing social distancing,or simply remaining indoors,if the restrictions are tightened then it'll be actions like this that'll cause that decision to be made,the government thus far have tried the softly,softly approach,and the majority have complied,but it only takes a small minority to mar the copybook of the majority,

[Wile E Coyote]

its just the **** that dont follow the rules during this crisis, same pigswill that we all encountered before. But nowadays they stand out a little more.

[tiger76]

its just the **** that dont follow the rules during this crisis, same pigswill that we all encountered before. But nowadays they stand out a little more.

Dingbats like these for example

Cumbria Police say a family of six from Lancashire were ordered to return home after driving up to the county for a day out.

Two adults and four children were travelling in the car pictured above from Leigh in Lancashire.

Police stopped them at Windermere, in the Lake District, and escorted them back to the motorway.

Another driver of a camper van was also told to head home.

Assistant Chief Constable Andy Slattery says people living in the Lake District have tipped off police about visitors seen moving into holiday homes.

He warns of the risk of tensions between visitors and locals, saying: "Animosity between sections of the community is counterproductive and we all need to work together if we are to beat this virus."

All routes into the Lake District are being policed and tourist website Visit Cumbria is telling the public to stay away.

[AndrewJB]

It doesn't surprise me. It's a huge city and, although I don't know that park, I spent quite a bit of time in some of London's other parks in those fondly remembered summers! I don't know what what can be done at this point, short of, as you say, army on the streets (even the Met might struggle to police all of London's parks) The weather is lovely at the moment here in the north west and if it's like this over the bank holiday I do worry.

Speaking for my area of London, some families have no garden, and live in cramped accommodation. Getting out once a day and going up to the flats for exercise is important for them. I’ve been jogging up there quite a few times, and never seen people not keeping distance. It’s a big area, so not hard to keep apart.

As for the media, they were all over Italy’s death rate, but although we’re looking set to surpass them, the media aren’t holding our government to account.

[CombatClaret]

"The language around Covid 19 has sometimes felt trite and misleading, you do not survive the disease through fortitude and strength of character whatever the Prime Ministers colleagues will tell us. And the disease is not the great leveler, the consequences of which everyone rich or poor suffers the same.

This is a myth which needs debunking, those suffering on the front line right now; bus drivers & shelf stackers, nurses, care home workers, hospital staff and shopkeepers are disproportionately the lowest paid members of our workforce. They are more likely to catch the disease because they are more exposed, those who live in tower blocks and small flats will find the lockdown tougher, those in manual jobs will be unable to work from home.

This is a health issue with huge ramifications for social welfare and it's a welfare issue with huge ramifications for public health.
Tonight as France goes into recession and the World Trade Organisation warns the pandemic could provoke the deepest economic downturn of our lifetimes we ask ourselves what kind of social settlement might need to be put in place to stop the inequality becoming even more stark."
- Emily Maitlis, Newsnight

Truth to power.

[Jakubclaret]

Speaking for my area of London, some families have no garden, and live in cramped accommodation. Getting out once a day and going up to the flats for exercise is important for them. I’ve been jogging up there quite a few times, and never seen people not keeping distance. It’s a big area, so not hard to keep apart.

As for the media, they were all over Italy’s death rate, but although we’re looking set to surpass them, the media aren’t holding our government to account.

It's only due to the timing & sensitivity the media are more neutral & forgiving regarding the governments approach, it's more preferable the united front at the moment due to the pandemic & the complete package, it will be completely different after the lockdown when assessing the economic damage & the aftermath of the problems surface, it's just akin to a stay of execution, everybody appears onside at the moment & staying central to the governments message, you can't do much with something buried until it resurfaces, it's in the post & on hold.

[ChorltonCharlie]

The thing is I think most people are following the rules. When we see people out and about they make up a very small minority. The roads are much quieter than usual. I'm pretty sure that the streets in residential areas will also be much quieter than they would be in school holidays. When I'm out and about running I'm seeing the vast majority do all they can to observe the 2 metre distance. We shouldn't let the odd idiot lose our sense of perspective about how many are following the rules and the collective effort the vast majority have gone to in reducing the spread of the virus.

My one bugbear is when the media keep saying they expect this weekend to be the biggest challenge so far to the lockdown. If that's what the authorities think, then why not announce that you'll be applying zero tolerance and if you're out and clearly flouting the rules dish out on the spot fines rather than just politely asking people to go home?

[Spijed]

Meanwhile, at the passport office:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52219930

There are also claims among staff and their trade union that advice from a government official at the meeting was out of step with government policy.

According to the transcript, the Home Office deputy scientific adviser, Rupert Shute, told those listening that staying at home was important but "we also have to keep functioning our lives".

"You are no more at risk at the workplace as you would be in your home or at the supermarket. It is about minimising it," he said.

"We are working on the assessment that 80% of us, if we haven't already, will get the virus."

He added: "We cannot hide away from it forever."

[Pimlico_Claret]

further more another example of our young people, these should not see daylight this summer, just my opinion of course:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-52219080

5 years wouldn't be enough for these oxygen thieves.

[Conroy92]

further more another example of our young people, these should not see daylight this summer, just my opinion of course:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-52219080

People need to stop with the "young people" bashing. These are men.

IMO most of the people I have seen flaunting the rules are parents with family's.

[AndrewJB]

It's only due to the timing & sensitivity the media are more neutral & forgiving regarding the governments approach, it's more preferable the united front at the moment due to the pandemic & the complete package, it will be completely different after the lockdown when assessing the economic damage & the aftermath of the problems surface, it's just akin to a stay of execution, everybody appears onside at the moment & staying central to the governments message, you can't do much with something buried until it resurfaces, it's in the post & on hold.

No. It’s due to the fact most of our newspapers are owned by billionaires, and the government is very kind to billionaires, and billionaire owners of newspapers are therefore very kind to the government.

[Jakubclaret]

No. It’s due to the fact most of our newspapers are owned by billionaires, and the government is very kind to billionaires, and billionaire owners of newspapers are therefore very kind to the government.

If you feel you know the answer already why are you asking the question, are you trying to seek reassurances that you are right or genuinely interested in other answers or doubtful upon your own answer, there's probably some truth to what you have stated & it will be contributing to the media giving the government a easy time, I was answering the question from a different angle & offering additional reasons for the media's actions.

[tiger76]

Meanwhile, at the passport office:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52219930

There are also claims among staff and their trade union that advice from a government official at the meeting was out of step with government policy.

According to the transcript, the Home Office deputy scientific adviser, Rupert Shute, told those listening that staying at home was important but "we also have to keep functioning our lives".

"You are no more at risk at the workplace as you would be in your home or at the supermarket. It is about minimising it," he said.

"We are working on the assessment that 80% of us, if we haven't already, will get the virus."

He added: "We cannot hide away from it forever."

Forgive me but why on earth is the passport office considered a critical service,according to Myrtle Lloyd, the HMPO chief operating officer.it is,who is going to be applying/renewing passports at the moment,for a start there's hardly anybody travelling.

This is a consequence of the government not being clear enough in their guidance of which industries can remain open,if there's ambiguity,then situations such as this will arise.I'd have thought the passport office might well have been one of the businesses that would be able to enable home working fairly easily,and then people wouldn't have to risk taking public transport for their commute,which is one of the higher breeding grounds for the virus,hence why so many transport employees are sadly losing their lives.

I also wonder how long Rupert Shute will remain in his post,surely he can't brief against the government's own policy,and expect to keep his job.

[tiger76]

There's no chance of the lockdown being loosened with prats like these.

Parties with DJs, fireworks, and bouncy castles were among 660 house and street gatherings reported to have taken place in Greater Manchester last weekend.

Another 122 groups of people playing sport were also reported to police.

Famous faces from across the region - including England footballers Marcus Rashford and Steph Houghton, Coronation Street actor Daniel Brocklebank and Happy Mondays singer Shaun Ryder - appeared in a video to urge people to stay inside.

"I'm pleading with you all to please stay at home and stay isolated," said Brocklebank, who plays Billy Mayhew in the long-running soap. England captain Houghton said: "If your mates are asking for a game of football please say no."

Great Manchester Chief Constable Ian Hopkins warned officers will use legislative powers on those who break the rules over Easter weekend.

[nil_desperandum]

People need to stop with the "young people" bashing. These are men.

IMO most of the people I have seen flaunting the rules are parents with family's.

Thanks for posting that. I've been promising myself not to join in these threads and was hoping that someone else would state the obvious.
By and large young people are handling this fantastically. I can't imagine what it must be like for young people in their teenage years locked up with parents 24 hours a day. It's a long time since I was in my teens but I'm not sure that I could / would have tolerated it. (Of course we were all used to a lot more freedom in those days anyway. I just came home from school, (parents still at work) and then went out with mates. No mobile phone, no one knowing where I was till I got home. [That was pretty normal at the time].

[AndrewJB]

If you feel you know the answer already why are you asking the question, are you trying to seek reassurances that you are right or genuinely interested in other answers or doubtful upon your own answer, there's probably some truth to what you have stated & it will be contributing to the media giving the government a easy time, I was answering the question from a different angle & offering additional reasons for the media's actions.

I didn’t ask a question.

[Jakubclaret]

I didn’t ask a question.

Quite correct you didn't & more surprisingly you answered a question you hadn't even asked in the first place, brilliant

[Elizabeth]

My experience this afternoon is that it is more than the odd person not following the rules.
I had to go out to pick up a prescription in town at 2pm. The number of people driving and walking about that I saw on my 3 mile journey did not reflect well.
It was a lovely warm afternoon and I think this will have been repeated in all parts of the UK. With a good weather forecast for the Easter weekend I would not be surprised if the way things are going more restrictions will follow soon.

[tiger76]

No imminent change in the lockdown strategy,that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

Lockdown well into May is best-case scenario

David Shukman

Science editor, BBC News

Amid all the speculation about when and how the UK’s lockdown may be relaxed, it’s worth looking back at the original scientific advice that led to the measures in the first place.

It makes clear that nothing is likely change soon.

The government’s scientific advisory committee SAGE has always suggested that a 13-week programme of interventions will be needed.

And although that sounds like very precise timing, it all depends on how the British public respond.

The scientists made a fairly pessimistic assumption: that only 50% of households would observe the requirements.

So what might a timetable look like? Once the peak in daily deaths has been reached – possibly in the next week or so – even the best-case scenario suggests that it will take a month or two for the numbers dying to fall to low levels.

That gets us well into May and maybe to early June, and it’ll be a brave political decision to ease the restrictions any earlier if there’s a risk of a "second peak", a resurgence of the virus.

[tiger76]

Strictly Robert Jenrick is abiding by the lockdown regulations,and his argument's a valid one,he's delivering essential supplies,but it yet again sends the wrong message to the public,i don't know all the details but travelling 40 miles seems excessive for such a task,unless the medication couldn't be locally sourced by the local community his parents reside in,which having watched the news item on the evening bulletin regarding shortages of some medicines is possible,but alas many people will just see the headlines,and think it's another example of do what i say,not do what i do.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... App_Tweet

[Heathclaret]

New Zealand lifting restrictions in a weeks time. Fewer than a thousand cases and only one death so far.

Amazing.

[KateR]

interesting and will of course get worse the longer it goes on I won't mention the Y word as it obviously offends some of our more sensitive PC souls

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52228169

[chipbutty]

New Zealand lifting restrictions in a weeks time. Fewer than a thousand cases and only one death so far.

Amazing.

Uk and New Zealand cover a similar area, whereas 64 million people live in UK and less than 5 million live in New Zealand. Much easier to stop the spread of a virus over that area.

[Heathclaret]

Uk and New Zealand cover a similar area, whereas 64 million people live in UK and less than 5 million live in New Zealand. Much easier to stop the spread of a virus over that area.

I wasn’t comparing really. They also closed their border on March the 20th, something that hasn’t happened in Britain.

I understand your point about the differing size of population, but there are still cities with high concentration of people in New Zealand. I was actually thinking they’ve been lucky.

[TsarBomba]

I’ve seen a huge increase in people out and about in the last 3 days. Yesterday, i was on a late turn, and we had at least 30-40 calls to house parties, gatherings in parks, and groups of people blatantly disregarding the lockdown. We didn’t have officers to send to any of them.

Domestic Violence and Mental Health calls have gone through the roof, there are no ambulances which would normally come out and take over at MH calls, and this is all being down with limited resources. My team is at least 30% under strength with officers at home self isolating.

Cumbria Police May be able to escort families back to the motorway, but in London, we can’t even meet our 999 call demand.

And people want tighter measures? I’m sorry, but it’s just not going to happen.

We’re getting hammered.

[NewClaret]

I’ve seen a huge increase in people out and about in the last 3 days. Yesterday, i was on a late turn, and we had at least 30-40 calls to house parties, gatherings in parks, and groups of people blatantly disregarding the lockdown. We didn’t have officers to send to any of them.

Domestic Violence and Mental Health calls have gone through the roof, there are no ambulances which would normally come out and take over at MH calls, and this is all being down with limited resources. My team is at least 30% under strength with officers at home self isolating.

Cumbria Police May be able to escort families back to the motorway, but in London, we can’t even meet our 999 call demand.

And people want tighter measures? I’m sorry, but it’s just not going to happen.

We’re getting hammered.

Would personally put the army on the streets. Can not understand why it hasn’t been done.

[tim_noone]

Would personally put the army on the streets. Can not understand why it hasn’t been done.

Well I'm sure that's in the pipeline...

[Tribesmen]

Uk and New Zealand cover a similar area, whereas 64 million people live in UK and less than 5 million live in New Zealand. Much easier to stop the spread of a virus over that area.

Where as here in Ireland same amount of people well close and we have 230 deaths and 6,000 who have contacted it .

[jrgbfc]

In NZ outside of Auckland they have large parts of the country where hardly anyone lives, particularly the South Island. Still, they've done well to contain it in Auckland, which has a big population density and could have been a big problem.

[FactualFrank]

I’ve seen a huge increase in people out and about in the last 3 days. Yesterday, i was on a late turn, and we had at least 30-40 calls to house parties, gatherings in parks, and groups of people blatantly disregarding the lockdown. We didn’t have officers to send to any of them.

Domestic Violence and Mental Health calls have gone through the roof, there are no ambulances which would normally come out and take over at MH calls, and this is all being down with limited resources. My team is at least 30% under strength with officers at home self isolating.

Cumbria Police May be able to escort families back to the motorway, but in London, we can’t even meet our 999 call demand.

And people want tighter measures? I’m sorry, but it’s just not going to happen.

We’re getting hammered.

I walked to the pharmacy on Wednesday and on one of the roads, I'd say it wasn't much quieter than it normally is, pre-lockdown.

I also saw one chap walking with his son, carrying a rugby ball - clearly been out for the afternoon for a fun day out.

I've not heard of a single person yet being fined for breaking the rules. They should start fining people, raise the price so it's a lot, and put the fear in people not to take the ****.

[CombatClaret]

Would personally put the army on the streets. Can not understand why it hasn’t been done.

I am often accused of being in the 'bleeding hearts and artists' category but I cannot see why army personnel cannot be used in areas which would only require minor re-training.

Putting unarmed army personnel under civilian police control essentially makes them policemen. Don't give them the powers to arrest but to respond as a first port of call to see if there is compliance. If a house party refuses to disperse at the request of 4 uniformed squaddies then the next step can be to dispatch police to issue fines/arrest etc.

Same goes for road checks into scenic areas, why can't army personnel be tasked with asking people with canoes to turn around and go home and leave the police to do more important enforcement.

[TsarBomba]

I am often accused of being in the 'bleeding hearts and artists' category but I cannot see why army personnel cannot be used in areas which would only require minor re-training.

Putting unarmed army personnel under civilian police control essentially makes them policemen. Don't give them the powers to arrest but to respond as a first port of call to see if there is compliance. If a house party refuses to disperse at the request of 4 uniformed squaddies then the next step can be to dispatch police to issue fines/arrest etc.

Same goes for road checks into scenic areas, why can't army personnel be tasked with asking people with canoes to turn around and go home and leave the police to do more important enforcement.

I can only speak for London, but there isn’t the Police to respond, to either issue fines or make arrests. There’s not enough cells in London to police a lockdown properly because Police Stations have been sold off. Any reserve that the Police, and the wider public services did have was lost with 10 years of Tory cuts.

We can think up all the ideal scenarios about how we should Police this lockdown, but there just isn’t the resources. We can’t do it effectively. We’ll certainly try, but I can already see it’s not enough. Not remotely.

Not with officers being exposed to Covid like we are, and juggling the huge rise in DV and MH calls.

[CombatClaret]

I can only speak for London, but there isn’t the Police to respond, to either issue fines or make arrests. There’s not enough cells in London to police a lockdown properly because Police Stations have been sold off. Any reserve that the Police, and the wider public services did have was lost with 10 years of Tory cuts.

We can think up all the ideal scenarios about how we should Police this lockdown, but there just isn’t the resources. We can’t do it effectively. We’ll certainly try, but I can already see it’s not enough. Not remotely.

Not with officers being exposed to Covid like we are, and juggling the huge rise in DV and MH calls.

I'm completely see your point of view and the struggles you face with greatly under resourced and understaffed outfit. Question though from your professional view point; is there any way extra manpower eg: army personnel acting under police command, would help the situation? If not just to free you from the task of walking around parks asking people to stop sunbathing?

[AndrewJB]

I can only speak for London, but there isn’t the Police to respond, to either issue fines or make arrests. There’s not enough cells in London to police a lockdown properly because Police Stations have been sold off. Any reserve that the Police, and the wider public services did have was lost with 10 years of Tory cuts.

We can think up all the ideal scenarios about how we should Police this lockdown, but there just isn’t the resources. We can’t do it effectively. We’ll certainly try, but I can already see it’s not enough. Not remotely.

Not with officers being exposed to Covid like we are, and juggling the huge rise in DV and MH calls.

It’s like we’ve spent all our emergency money on an artificial snow machine, and now a blizzard is coming.

I remember all those conversations ten years ago (and longer) about “efficiency savings” - often undertaken by a consultant on a six figure salary. Back then someone described it as a weight loss program in which you cut off a limb.

[Jakubclaret]

I can only speak for London, but there isn’t the Police to respond, to either issue fines or make arrests. There’s not enough cells in London to police a lockdown properly because Police Stations have been sold off. Any reserve that the Police, and the wider public services did have was lost with 10 years of Tory cuts.

We can think up all the ideal scenarios about how we should Police this lockdown, but there just isn’t the resources. We can’t do it effectively. We’ll certainly try, but I can already see it’s not enough. Not remotely.

Not with officers being exposed to Covid like we are, and juggling the huge rise in DV and MH calls.

With the way things are & the way things are going, you should be in a position to ignore the DV & MH calls & prioritise the Covid-19, it's impossible for anybody to be in 2 places at once & if there's a lack of resources it as to boil down to which is most important as a overall public concern. It's a sad state of affairs to begin with when the need to police the lockdown is needed with looking at the bigger picture & all the deaths that are occurring as a result, but I understand that's the reality & the police are faced with tough challenges in all manners of criminal activity, at the end of the day you can only do your best & work accordingly to the short resources.

[Elizabeth]

To help the police, maybe closure of all parks will be the next step forward. Possibly with an expansion on the number of retail shops not allowed to open.
It will be a bigger restriction on our freedom however proactively reduces reasons for people to go out.
Removing the opportunity to exercise in my opinion would be a step too far and might be the restriction that tips the situation over the edge enough for the army to get involved.

[Jakubclaret]

To help the police, maybe closure of all parks will be the next step forward. Possibly with an expansion on the number of retail shops not allowed to open.
It will be a bigger restriction on our freedom however proactively reduces reasons for people to go out.
Removing the opportunity to exercise in my opinion would be a step too far and might be the restriction that tips the situation over the edge enough for the army to get involved.

It would tip the situation over the edge, exercise means so much for some people & it's the only opportunity for some people to go outdoors, exercise is all about promoting good health & to take that away would be a dagger in the hearts to some people, to be honest people simply wouldn't accept it & in my opinion it'd be impossible to stop.

[KateR]

It would tip the situation over the edge, exercise means so much for some people & it's the only opportunity for some people to go outdoors, exercise is all about promoting good health & to take that away would be a dagger in the hearts to some people, to be honest people simply wouldn't accept it & in my opinion it'd be impossible to stop.

In the end the issue is people and failure to comply, it started in the beginning when people were being requested to take it seriously, for what ever reasons the Gov. decided to allow people/businesses to continue, one would think due to the know effect on the economy but that was not taken seriously enough so the decision to shut things down. Now it's not a lockdown, it's close but it is not like Italy or Spain, some freedom from a real lockdown has been allowed, it's irrelevant what anyone thinks, that's where we are but again people/the public (all be it a minority) are not taking it seriously enough. We will see what transpires this weekend, many of course fear the worst, if it is bad then it well be the tipping point where the decision is made to go in to full lockdown, no exercise, I certainly don't think it would be impossible to stop people will have to accept or there will be consequences but I do understand your thinking, it's back to the cultural thing again.

[Heathclaret]

Would personally put the army on the streets. Can not understand why it hasn’t been done.

Would that be martial law?

[nil_desperandum]

Would that be martial law?

I think that that would depend on what powers they had, and whether they were armed. I'm all in favour of the army helping out, so long as they can't use military weapons against civilians.

[AndrewJB]

In the end the issue is people and failure to comply, it started in the beginning when people were being requested to take it seriously, for what ever reasons the Gov. decided to allow people/businesses to continue, one would think due to the know effect on the economy but that was not taken seriously enough so the decision to shut things down. Now it's not a lockdown, it's close but it is not like Italy or Spain, some freedom from a real lockdown has been allowed, it's irrelevant what anyone thinks, that's where we are but again people/the public (all be it a minority) are not taking it seriously enough. We will see what transpires this weekend, many of course fear the worst, if it is bad then it well be the tipping point where the decision is made to go in to full lockdown, no exercise, I certainly don't think it would be impossible to stop people will have to accept or there will be consequences but I do understand your thinking, it's back to the cultural thing again.

There are ways of accomplishing it through community organisation. Ration out recreation areas and times.

[KateR]

There are ways of accomplishing it through community organisation. Ration out recreation areas and times.

I totally agree.

However, the issue would be will the public agree to this if as they have demonstrated they can not stick to other guidelines, it's like having children, you tell them things and they push the boundaries until you finally do something they are definitely not going to like.

I am in many ways coming around to some of your statements around the public which, I completely disagreed with a year ago, regarding the pubic, I am mystified why it even has to be discussed.

[Jakubclaret]

There are ways of accomplishing it through community organisation. Ration out recreation areas and times.

Nothing would work, some people would just do what they want & when they wanted, you only have to look at the post regarding a policeman himself admitting there are struggling & don’t have the resources to tackle the problem effectively, you can’t watch all the population every single second, every single minute, every single hour, 24/7, accomplishing it requires an acceptance that’s it’s going to happen & instead of trying prevent the impossible, concentrate efforts towards finding ways to reducing the problem & accept it’s not a problem that’s disappearing anytime soon. Some People will never listen & keep on spreading the virus, the police shouldn’t be tasked with this really, it’s unacceptable that a minority of people are refusing to listen.

[Heathclaret]

I think that that would depend on what powers they had, and whether they were armed. I'm all in favour of the army helping out, so long as they can't use military weapons against civilians.

Can’t say I’m too keen on the idea of martial law. I realise people should be doing as recommended by the government, none of my kids have been beyond the drive since a week before the schools were closed, except my eldest son, who works with me.

I do feel sorry for people with no space to relax in, must be very difficult for those in flats, even with the allowed time to exercise.

I don’t envy any government having to contend with this situation, limiting the populations civil liberties, I bet the lawyers can’t wait to get going.