UK media & Lockdown
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UK media & Lockdown
Sick to death of our media pushing for dates on the relaxation of lockdown. They’re not happy with ‘same old, same old’ & are only interested in headline news. Don’t these thick ###%### realise that a massive proportion of our population hangs on their every word & this will only stress them out (despite the media supposedly being pc with their sanctimonious concern regarding mindfulness).
It will be relaxed only when infection rates are low enough - what is so difficult to understand??
It will be relaxed only when infection rates are low enough - what is so difficult to understand??
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
The cynic in me says that the increased scrutiny of the govt strategy from the likes of Sky News may be because they stand to lose money the longer lockdown goes on (no football, or sport generally). Pure speculation mind.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Quite agree with both points made above. However the media's obsession may be counter productive. With intense scrutiny of high profile victims such as Boris Johnson the date for a relaxation of restrictions is likely to go back. It may be minor in the scheme of things but him contracting the virus could have put the resumption of football etc back a few weeks. Should someone high profile die that could be months.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
It’s time we were locked down properly.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
I’m sick of the international death tolls being produced as if it were a competition.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Planned date for coming out of lockdown is mid-May.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
If at all ..it creates only tension.Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:15 amI’m sick of the international death tolls being produced as if it were a competition.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Why? According to people in the government the lockdown is working and having the desired affect. I'd just rather there was zero tolerance on the people who are clearly not respecting the lockdown.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
That seems highly optimistic. Letting everybody out all at once unless the virus is eradicated from the UK by then or there is a vaccine or cure will just take us to where we were 3 or 4 weeks ago.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Because that’s what it is going to take. Look at China Italy Spain etc. We’ve not enough police to crack down on the retards who keep playing the rules.ChorltonCharlie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:30 amWhy? According to people in the government the lockdown is working and having the desired affect. I'd just rather there was zero tolerance on the people who are clearly not respecting the lockdown.
Lock us in, give us slots when we can go for shopping, only 1 adult allowed in a car etc, unfortunately that’s what is needed.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Don’t see the benefit of stages. Nobody knows who they are setting free.
Re: UK media & Lockdown
And why do we need someone telling us what the weather is going to be like in another part of the country. We are not meant to be travelling. So just have someone off screen say in my case the weather in Fleet Hampshire will be scattered showers.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
But if it's working why do they need to make things more strict?Granny WeatherWax wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:02 amBecause that’s what it is going to take. Look at China Italy Spain etc. We’ve not enough police to crack down on the retards who keep playing the rules.
Lock us in, give us slots when we can go for shopping, only 1 adult allowed in a car etc, unfortunately that’s what is needed.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Sometimes think people have forgotten about what the government are trying to achieve. The purpose of the lockdown isn't to eradicate Covid-19. They know that isn't achievable anytime soon, and keeping everyone locked up until it is would be far too long. The purpose is to slow the spread of the virus and alleviate pressure on the NHS. Once that's achieved, then the lockdown in it's current format will be over. The changes though will be staged to try and delay the next lockdown as long as possible. Other western countries are a good guide to what's likely. Shops and industry may be the first to allowed back, but pubs and restaurants will be further down the line. Mass gatherings for sport and music are probably still a long way off. The government have to relive pressure on the economy of the country just like they have done with the NHS, and for the next couple of years they'll be trying to carefully balance those off against each other.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Planned by whom?
How would you know anyway, are you a cabinet minister?
Re: UK media & Lockdown
Without a doubt it's going to be extended until the end of April. The next few weeks you'd like to think they're going to try and come up with some kind of exit strategy. Obviously this all depends on us hitting some kind of peak death rate and the NHS not being completely swamped.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
They're being very wary about getting peoples hopes up too much, but the signs so far are good. I've heard there's also some evidence that a fair proportion of people may be naturally immune to the virus. There's no reason to think that by May we won't start to see some positive changes, but it's unlikely to be back to normality and there may be other lockdowns to come in the future, especially in the winter when the NHS faces significant pressures anyway.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
They need an exit plan and a good one. People demanding an ever tighter lockdown.. what for? Infections are slowing down, that's the plan, it's working. No lockdown is going to eradicate this virus. I sometimes think there's a good proportion of people who yearn for a 1970s East German police state. It's a public health issue, not a military coup.
Also, there's a huge health cost to lockdown too, which seems to be overlooked for the financial one. When you reach a point where you're damaging the health prospects of people for the next 10 years because of action taken to save lives this month, you have to start doing some painful sums.
Covid19 will still be here in 2021 and 2022.. You can't just hide in your basement eating grass and hoping it goes away.
Also, there's a huge health cost to lockdown too, which seems to be overlooked for the financial one. When you reach a point where you're damaging the health prospects of people for the next 10 years because of action taken to save lives this month, you have to start doing some painful sums.
Covid19 will still be here in 2021 and 2022.. You can't just hide in your basement eating grass and hoping it goes away.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
But by 2021 2022 hopefully there will be 1) a significant minority with some immunity 2) a vaccine offering some benefit at least 3)some form of treatment other than supportive care. We have many illnesses around today which damage health for 10 years and more but that is compared with the past having died
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Nice to finally read a thread with people that know what they are talking about.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
I really don't understand the logic for that. I've stuck by all the rules.Granny WeatherWax wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:02 am
....... only 1 adult allowed in a car etc, unfortunately that’s what is needed.
My wife shops for my dad (almost 90) twice a week. She then picks me up and we drive over the hills behind Colne to deliver his shopping - about a 10 mile round-trip. She puts it on his door step and returns to the car.
A couple of minutes later he opens the door shouts a thank you to us, we give him a wave and drive back home.
I enjoy the scenery and being out of the house for half an hour, my dad enjoys seeing me (us), and then when we get home we ring and have a chat.
Everyone benefits and so far as I can see it doesn't present any additional risk to anyone.
Why do you think that what we do is wrong and needs stopping?
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
A few Sun and Times people have been on Twitter, begging people to buy a newspaper. One of the reasons given is that they speak truth to power, and hold the government to account. How I laughed.
Re: UK media & Lockdown
If anything I thought sales of newspapers might have gone up a bit during lockdown. A good way of passing some time, and an excuse to have a walk to the local shop/newsagents.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Parents taking kids to the countryside due to it being sunny, picnicking etc that’s what needs stopping, not you.nil_desperandum wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:11 amI really don't understand the logic for that. I've stuck by all the rules.
My wife shops for my dad (almost 90) twice a week. She then picks me up and we drive over the hills behind Colne to deliver his shopping - about a 10 mile round-trip. She puts it on his door step and returns to the car.
A couple of minutes later he opens the door shouts a thank you to us, we give him a wave and drive back home.
I enjoy the scenery and being out of the house for half an hour, my dad enjoys seeing me (us), and then when we get home we ring and have a chat.
Everyone benefits and so far as I can see it doesn't present any additional risk to anyone.
Why do you think that what we do is wrong and needs stopping?
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
I will tell you how I know when I get out of this intensive care unit and back into no 10.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Not sure what evidence you’ve seen that suggests it’s working?ChorltonCharlie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:14 amBut if it's working why do they need to make things more strict?
And even if it was there are still people out there flouting the rules which is putting people’s lives at risk, needs stoping.
Unbelievable the amount of people out and about when we are in lockdown. Basically a big **** off to all those people risking their lives to save others.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Basically, these media folk believe that they have a better ‘handle’ on events than everyone else. Reports are made with emphasis on specific words, meant to lead you to their own (or their employer’s) point of view. These journos are all too happy to appear as experts in a field that is completely alien to them. Just report the info - and don’t inject any inflections - is that too much to ask?
Any reporting of exit strategies, lockdown relaxation will only raise our hopes and will inevitably lead to disappointment (at the best) and possibly insurrection (at the worst).
Sit tight, enjoy your space & reflect.....please. UTC
Any reporting of exit strategies, lockdown relaxation will only raise our hopes and will inevitably lead to disappointment (at the best) and possibly insurrection (at the worst).
Sit tight, enjoy your space & reflect.....please. UTC
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
I don’t realistically see how the government could enforce stricter controls than what what we have now without bringing the army in and making people feel not just like we were living through a war but that we were living in a war zone. The reason the government have been listening to behavioural scientists is because they were aware of the possibility that if they handled the emergency incorrectly (I.e. by introducing the wrong guidelines or by being seen to enforce them too strictly), the public could turn, leading to noncompliance , and, in time, the virus taking a heavier toll. This is what the UK’s Scientific Pandemic Influenza group on Behaviour has said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/sc ... 9-response
The media are aware they have a role to play in this. It seems that, finally, social media services are waking up to their own public duties also. People can still say what they like, but, even the father of British liberalism JS Mill said that a man before a baying crowd, pitchforks and torches aloft, rearing to go, should not be free to incite them without a shred of evidence. ‘The culprit is in there, he ruined your crops and stole your chickens’ - but this man is an utter gobshite, he knows nothing and is just trolling for his own gratification. So too with the egotistical fools claiming the disease is all caused by 5G. Simple arrogance: I’m better than everyone else so the common belief isn’t good enough for me.
We’ve got to be vigilant with any encroachment on civil liberties. The Hungarian government has disgracefully used this crisis as an opportunity to impose further anti-democratic measures. The EU loses credibility everyday it allows them to remain a member state at this point. But there is nothing else to be done now, we need to accept it. It’s ****. It takes a toll on everyone. I consider the hardship of many right now and count myself though. My main hope is that we do all come out of this more caring people.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... sorder.pdfSPI-B recommends that, in order to limit the risk of public disorder, Government should:
• Provide clear and transparent reasons for different strategies: The public need to understand the purpose of the Government’s policy, why the UK approach differs to other countries and how resources are being allocated. SPI-B agreed that government should prioritise messaging that explains clearly why certain actions are being taken, ahead of messaging designed solely for reassuring the public.
This should also set clear expectations on how the response will develop, e.g. ensuring the public understands what they can expect as the outbreak evolves and what will happen when large numbers of people present at hospitals. The use of early messaging will help, as a) individuals are likely to be more receptive to messages before an issue becomes controversial and b) it will promote a sense the Government is following a plan.
• Promote a sense of collectivism: All messaging should reinforce a sense of community, that “we are all in this together.” This will avoid increasing tensions between different groups (including between responding agencies and the public); promote social norms around behaviours; and lead to self-policing within communities around important behaviours.
https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/sc ... 9-response
The media are aware they have a role to play in this. It seems that, finally, social media services are waking up to their own public duties also. People can still say what they like, but, even the father of British liberalism JS Mill said that a man before a baying crowd, pitchforks and torches aloft, rearing to go, should not be free to incite them without a shred of evidence. ‘The culprit is in there, he ruined your crops and stole your chickens’ - but this man is an utter gobshite, he knows nothing and is just trolling for his own gratification. So too with the egotistical fools claiming the disease is all caused by 5G. Simple arrogance: I’m better than everyone else so the common belief isn’t good enough for me.
We’ve got to be vigilant with any encroachment on civil liberties. The Hungarian government has disgracefully used this crisis as an opportunity to impose further anti-democratic measures. The EU loses credibility everyday it allows them to remain a member state at this point. But there is nothing else to be done now, we need to accept it. It’s ****. It takes a toll on everyone. I consider the hardship of many right now and count myself though. My main hope is that we do all come out of this more caring people.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
HieronymousBoschHobs wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:00 pmI don’t realistically see how the government could enforce stricter controls than what what we have now without bringing the army in and making people feel not just like we were living through a war but that we were living in a war zone. The reason the government have been listening to behavioural scientists is because they were aware of the possibility that if they handled the emergency incorrectly (I.e. by introducing the wrong guidelines or by being seen to enforce them too strictly), the public could turn, leading to noncompliance , and, in time, the virus taking a heavier toll.
Are these the same behavioral scientist that thought the British public would not accept any kind of lockdown so there was no point in trying, helping to lead us down the deadly path toward the 'herd immunity' idea?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN21P1VF
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Once read an article on "the media" that suggested they (Newspapers and TV News) start with a completely blank sheet of paper each day and 'create' the news. At present, with only one story on the agenda, they're struggling but still need to 'find an angle'.
The media must be careful in these times. The wrong story at the wrong time could create panic, public disorder, and even insurrection.
Pity we can't return to the days of "Careless talk costs lives"
The media must be careful in these times. The wrong story at the wrong time could create panic, public disorder, and even insurrection.
Pity we can't return to the days of "Careless talk costs lives"
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Plenty in the briefing yesterday and in the governments responses to people flouting the lockdown over the weekend. Not sure why I'm bothering responding though, as knowing you you're probably on a wind up.Granny WeatherWax wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:36 pmNot sure what evidence you’ve seen that suggests it’s working?
And even if it was there are still people out there flouting the rules which is putting people’s lives at risk, needs stoping.
Unbelievable the amount of people out and about when we are in lockdown. Basically a big **** off to all those people risking their lives to save others.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Quite possibly. A group of behavioural scientists wrote to the government mid-late March criticising its strategy, as did a group of computer scientists and mathematicians criticising its modelling. Academics disagree by nature and governments are likely to choose the opinion which suits their purposes. There will be an inquiry after this and many books written. I think it is just reality that a country with our policing infrastructure and (relatively) liberal culture will only be able to follow government guidance with careful stage management. China can do things we can't. But despite the **** going on in the UK, I'm still glad I live here rather than there.CombatClaret wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:06 pmAre these the same behavioral scientist that thought the British public would not accept any kind of lockdown so there was no point in trying, helping to lead us down the deadly path toward the 'herd immunity' idea?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN21P1VF
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
They'll be a one big difference. We'll hopefully have all the "nightingale" makeshift hospitals up and running by that time.
Remember, we're keeping the number of cases low so its under the NHS capacity to deal with said number of cases. This capacity is increasing each day.
Frankly, and I realise this might not be a popular opinion, but if the lockdown goes on much past May, the "cure" will be more harmful than the disease.
Once capacity is up, then keep a lockdown on retired people, give them priority of home deliveries etc and get the rest moving /working again.
Re: UK media & Lockdown
I said the other day in the context of outdoor exercise if there needs to be further tightening to limit to single adults alone rather than full lockdown. There would obviously be exceptions. But the point being that some people are clearly out and about together when not part of the same household. Applying such a rule would mean it clear and more visible of when the rules are being ignored. The point about being part of the same household becomes irrelevant. Not needed if the current position is having the desired impact but would be preferable to full lockdown.nil_desperandum wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:11 amI really don't understand the logic for that. I've stuck by all the rules.
My wife shops for my dad (almost 90) twice a week. She then picks me up and we drive over the hills behind Colne to deliver his shopping - about a 10 mile round-trip. She puts it on his door step and returns to the car.
A couple of minutes later he opens the door shouts a thank you to us, we give him a wave and drive back home.
I enjoy the scenery and being out of the house for half an hour, my dad enjoys seeing me (us), and then when we get home we ring and have a chat.
Everyone benefits and so far as I can see it doesn't present any additional risk to anyone.
Why do you think that what we do is wrong and needs stopping?
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
I sense what is going to happen is:
1. Lockdown will be slowly eased
2. They'll monitor the impact it has and whether it remains under the NHS capacity.
3. After X days, it'll be eased again
4. They'll monitor the impact it has and whether it remains under the NHS capacity.
Rinse and repeat.
How they ease it will depend on the levels they have everybody at with regards to their role in the community, their age, any illnesses etc.
1. Lockdown will be slowly eased
2. They'll monitor the impact it has and whether it remains under the NHS capacity.
3. After X days, it'll be eased again
4. They'll monitor the impact it has and whether it remains under the NHS capacity.
Rinse and repeat.
How they ease it will depend on the levels they have everybody at with regards to their role in the community, their age, any illnesses etc.
Re: UK media & Lockdown
It will help that Austria and potentially other countries will ease their lockdown before us. We can look at how well it works and potentially use the same ideas, assuming everything goes to plan.
Re: UK media & Lockdown
summed up my thoughts quite well and as they say a picture tells a thousand words, Park in Hackney on Saturday, goodness knows what Easter weekend will be like if there is good weather!
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
They need to up the fines. If it was £60 it needs to be £1000. The police would get loads this coming weekend.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Your probably not a million miles off in that prognosis,the reality is this virus will still be a danger,until either a vaccine emerges,that's at least a year away,or more likely there's mass anti-body testing that's reliable,in the absence of any of those government's worldwide face some stark choices,it's not viable to continue the lockdown indefinitely,as the impact on both people's mental health,and more crucially the economy will be severe and long lasting.SonofPog wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:45 pmThey'll be a one big difference. We'll hopefully have all the "nightingale" makeshift hospitals up and running by that time.
Remember, we're keeping the number of cases low so its under the NHS capacity to deal with said number of cases. This capacity is increasing each day.
Frankly, and I realise this might not be a popular opinion, but if the lockdown goes on much past May, the "cure" will be more harmful than the disease.
Once capacity is up, then keep a lockdown on retired people, give them priority of home deliveries etc and get the rest moving /working again.
A hint of Germany's strategy has been revealed,i doubt some of those ideas could work in the UK just now,firstly their mortality rates are far lower,and vitally they've been testing a lot more than other European nations.
A draft document seen by Reuters details Germany's multi-step plan to end its lockdown, and that its government assumes the global pandemic will last into 2021.
Germany's lockdown laws are set to expire in just under two weeks.
Shops will be allowed to reopen, as well as schools in select regions, though strict social-distancing measures will still be in place.
Border controls will be relaxed, but large events and private parties will remain forbidden.
And as soon as enough protective masks are available, it will be made compulsory to wear them on trains and in buses as well as in factories and public buildings
The draft action plan says the measures should be enough to keep the average number of people infected by one person below 1.
The country has been under lockdown since March 22.
Germany has a low mortality rate among coronavirus patients compared to other European nations, which experts say is due to a high number of testing.
The document predicts a staged return to normality, backed by mechanisms that will make it possible to track more than 80% of people an infected person had contact with, within 24 hours of diagnosis.
Infected people and those they had contact with will be quarantined, either at home or in hotels.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Wind up? I’m deadly serious.ChorltonCharlie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:35 pmPlenty in the briefing yesterday and in the governments responses to people flouting the lockdown over the weekend. Not sure why I'm bothering responding though, as knowing you you're probably on a wind up.
People are dying including people risking their lives to save others, yet we have retards sunbathing in the park.
Full lockdown needed.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Yep a total lockdown would hopefully teach these selfish, mindless tossers to respect life itself, if they are caught flouting the rules they should be penalised by forfeiting their benefits or the governments 80% payout deal that may keep them at home for a while.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Even if HMG introduced a full lockdown,the retards would still flout the rules,and realistically how can the police patrol everywhere they can't,so if you genuinely want a full luckdown,you'll have to get used to seeing plenty of squaddies on Britain's streets,does anybody really want that?i certainly don't.Granny WeatherWax wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:32 pmWind up? I’m deadly serious.
People are dying including people risking their lives to save others, yet we have retards sunbathing in the park.
Full lockdown needed.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
I've got a lot of sympathy with younger people (i.e. late teens to early 20s) because those are often the best summers of your life (certainly true for me) and a lot is being asked of them for something which, statistically, is unlikely to affect them. It's unlikely to affect me also, but it could affect my parents. I do think most younger people are following the guidance because they are thinking on the same lines. Even in the photo above, those people could all be flatmates: it's not uncommon for Londoners to flatshare into their 40s because rent/property prices are so high. I see a lot of people out and about when I go for a walk but I tend to think that's because far less people are 'at' work (i.e. working from home) so they're just doing as I am: getting some fresh air. I don't doubt there are people taking the **** though, having massive BBQs etc. I saw a helicopter circling over Burnley earlier on and was wondering whether the cops are looking for large gatherings.
Re: UK media & Lockdown
I understand what you are saying, remember my summers of freedom very fondly, but now it will affect them if parents/siblings GF/BF gets it and dies, more importantly in my opinion is if they affect others and continue to spread, NHS have enough to do without this.HieronymousBoschHobs wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:46 pmI've got a lot of sympathy with younger people (i.e. late teens to early 20s) because those are often the best summers of your life (certainly true for me) and a lot is being asked of them for something which, statistically, is unlikely to affect them. It's unlikely to affect me also, but it could affect my parents. I do think most younger people are following the guidance because they are thinking on the same lines. Even in the photo above, those people could all be flatmates: it's not uncommon for Londoners to flatshare into their 40s because rent/property prices are so high. I see a lot of people out and about when I go for a walk but I tend to think that's because far less people are 'at' work (i.e. working from home) so they're just doing as I am: getting some fresh air. I don't doubt there are people taking the **** though, having massive BBQs etc. I saw a helicopter circling over Burnley earlier on and was wondering whether the cops are looking for large gatherings.
The park is London Fields just at the top of Broadway Market in Hackney, a park I know very well and also saw the same park was absolutely full and am sorry but these people are putting many in danger and they should be punished accordingly. Punishment such that it is a deterrent and not force a harder lockdown on the whole nation and as mentioned armed forces on the street, plenty of countries/cities gone that way, this Easter weekend may be the one that pushes it that way.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
Boris's water cannons would have been ideal but snowflake Khan got rid of them
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
KateR wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:06 pmI understand what you are saying, remember my summers of freedom very fondly, but now it will affect them if parents/siblings GF/BF gets it and dies, more importantly in my opinion is if they affect others and continue to spread, NHS have enough to do without this.
The park is London Fields just at the top of Broadway Market in Hackney, a park I know very well and also saw the same park was absolutely full and am sorry but these people are putting many in danger and they should be punished accordingly. Punishment such that it is a deterrent and not force a harder lockdown on the whole nation and as mentioned armed forces on the street, plenty of countries/cities gone that way, this Easter weekend may be the one that pushes it that way.
It doesn't surprise me. It's a huge city and, although I don't know that park, I spent quite a bit of time in some of London's other parks in those fondly remembered summers! I don't know what what can be done at this point, short of, as you say, army on the streets (even the Met might struggle to police all of London's parks) The weather is lovely at the moment here in the north west and if it's like this over the bank holiday I do worry.
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Re: UK media & Lockdown
the weather really does add the complication that might otherwise have really helped had it been the heavy persistent rain I would imagine people going out to be very low.HieronymousBoschHobs wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:20 pmIt doesn't surprise me. It's a huge city and, although I don't know that park, I spent quite a bit of time in some of London's other parks in those fondly remembered summers! I don't know what what can be done at this point, short of, as you say, army on the streets (even the Met might struggle to police all of London's parks) The weather is lovely at the moment here in the north west and if it's like this over the bank holiday I do worry.
Many countries have gone full lockdown, some just cities or hotspots, armed forces have been out and about, personally I think that is not a problem, they are not shooting anyone, its not an army/military take over and would be for a short (relative) time. If people had listened to the Gov. day one regarding warning we would have far few deaths by now but it's the nature of the beast, but it has to be beaten one way or another, you have a couple of choices and we will never all agree to the one selected.