MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

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TVC15
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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:12 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:56 pm
You’re straying off point though. I criticised the pillorying of footballer numerous times on here, particularly from people on relative high salaries themselves. That really has little to do with the issue in hand.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable that any employees, whether they be public servants or working in the private sector, are able to claim for additional costs incurred when working away from the office.

I see where you’re coming from but why should the MP’s have to pay for new IT, stationery etc? Even the electricity you mention, if it costs an MP a measly additional £20 more per month and their two staff the same then why shouldn’t they be able to claim for that £60 per month?

I didn’t have a desk at home. My bedrooms are all used as bedrooms and with a child at home our open plan kitchen/dining room wasn’t ideal. So I worked for a week using an ironing board as a desk!! Why shouldn’t I have the correct equipment to be able to perform my job properly?
Last word from me as it’s obviously fine to disagree.
I mentioned footballers because Hancock - an MP and member of the government did - days before they grant this expense....if he is taking about high earners making sacrifices then I’m sure MPs and their staff can afford a few quid for electricity especially as they have to be at home anyway and are saving money from not travelling.
But not only are they not prepared to sacrifice - they get the opportunity to claim expenses for it.

As for a desk - I’ll say it again it’s not 1988. I’m sure they have a table from one of their houses or 2 knees to rest their laptop on.
Maybe they can put in a claim for an extra pair of corduroy trousers as their knees will be worn out from the computer in a few days time ?

It’s completely the wrong message and if one of their staff genuinely had to buy an extra piece of equipment then they could have done this without the additional budget announcement - and there travel costs should be reduced to an extent that it would probably be easily covered. The first class train fare to London is several hundred a day, hotel fees, food - all being saved. More than enough to cover any necessary costs from working at home which at a very worst case scenario would not be more than £50 extra a month.

No need to respond - I get your position.

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by Rileybobs » Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:21 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:12 pm
Last word from me as it’s obviously fine to disagree.
I mentioned footballers because Hancock - an MP and member of the government did - days before they grant this expense....if he is taking about high earners making sacrifices then I’m sure MPs and their staff can afford a few quid for electricity especially as they have to be at home anyway and are saving money from not travelling.
But not only are they not prepared to sacrifice - they get the opportunity to claim expenses for it.

As for a desk - I’ll say it again it’s not 1988. I’m sure they have a table from one of their houses or 2 knees to rest their laptop on.
Maybe they can put in a claim for an extra pair of corduroy trousers as their knees will be worn out from the computer in a few days time ?

It’s completely the wrong message and if one of their staff genuinely had to buy an extra piece of equipment then they could have done this without the additional budget announcement - and there travel costs should be reduced to an extent that it would probably be easily covered. The first class train fare to London is several hundred a day, hotel fees, food - all being saved. More than enough to cover any necessary costs from working at home which at a very worst case scenario would not be more than £50 extra a month.

No need to respond - I get your position.
I’ll respond in any case. If they’re saving on travel etc then they won’t be claiming for this so in essence their expense bill will be reduced. But this allowance seems to be specifically for additional expenses incurred for setting up and office and working from home.

So overall they will probably be claiming for less, but have been given a budget to cover expenses due to these unforeseen circumstances.

I’m sure there are lots of costs that neither of us know about because, presumably, neither of us work in government. You’ve simplified it a lot by suggesting they can just work from their laptop. Well, I could use a laptop for my job for a day or two at best. It’s an option for occasional use but not a viable full time solution. MP’s need to access and share sensitive information so the correct, secure IT infrastructure will have to be put in place.

Anyway, happy to disagree, but rather like those who demanded that footballers take a pay cut, it seems like some people are jumping at the headline without putting much thought into the complexities.
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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:53 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:21 pm
I’ll respond in any case. If they’re saving on travel etc then they won’t be claiming for this so in essence their expense bill will be reduced. But this allowance seems to be specifically for additional expenses incurred for setting up and office and working from home.

So overall they will probably be claiming for less, but have been given a budget to cover expenses due to these unforeseen circumstances.

I’m sure there are lots of costs that neither of us know about because, presumably, neither of us work in government. You’ve simplified it a lot by suggesting they can just work from their laptop. Well, I could use a laptop for my job for a day or two at best. It’s an option for occasional use but not a viable full time solution. MP’s need to access and share sensitive information so the correct, secure IT infrastructure will have to be put in place.

Anyway, happy to disagree, but rather like those who demanded that footballers take a pay cut, it seems like some people are jumping at the headline without putting much thought into the complexities.
Ok - you sucked me in with the assumptions and little digs.

I was working from a laptop with remote access more than 10 years ago - it was for a company with just as much security requirements as MPs - probably more. It costs virtually nothing to set that up and that was in the days before browser based access to networks which is a lot easier / cheaper to set up.

We had teams of people already set up to deal with a contingency situation of having to work from home anyway. You would think with all that high security / vital work MPs have to do that they would have also done this years ago - especially with recent terror attacks etc.

I am not jumping on any headlines and I have more than a good idea of the complexities of IT - sounds like quite a bit more than you from the examples you have given about the potential extra costs.

The way you are describing your examples they are having to do a load of set up work - with “software”, extra security, hardware etc....really ? You don’t they already have that ? And if they don’t who do you think would be doing all this work during lockdown.

There is just no need for this IMHO but I do expect some people to do well from it - the expensive mahogany desk businesses will be booming as will leather office chair retailers. There will be a few painters and decorators benefiting too as the copy Kitty Usher and take the opportunity to get rid of artex in their shiny new offices. And I wish I was actually being sarcastic.

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by KateR » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:03 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:54 pm
That's the £64,000 question..
why is it a question at all, people who are told to work from home do so on full salary, nobody is being asked to go on a furlough which is why the 80% would kick in, if you really have a question ask read and people will try and help you answer it. Actually making obviously false statements is just trying to add fuel to the fire that a few playing the blame game want. Hopefully this answers your question, which was clearly answered further up by others but you might of missed

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by Rileybobs » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:03 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:53 pm
Ok - you sucked me in with the assumptions and little digs.

I was working from a laptop with remote access more than 10 years ago - it was for a company with just as much security requirements as MPs - probably more. It costs virtually nothing to set that up and that was in the days before browser based access to networks which is a lot easier / cheaper to set up.

We had teams of people already set up to deal with a contingency situation of having to work from home anyway. You would think with all that high security / vital work MPs have to do that they would have also done this years ago - especially with recent terror attacks etc.

I am not jumping on any headlines and I have more than a good idea of the complexities of IT - sounds like quite a bit more than you from the examples you have given about the potential extra costs.

The way you are describing your examples they are having to do a load of set up work - with “software”, extra security, hardware etc....really ? You don’t they already have that ? And if they don’t who do you think would be doing all this work during lockdown.

There is just no need for this IMHO but I do expect some people to do well from it - the expensive mahogany desk businesses will be booming as will leather office chair retailers. There will be a few painters and decorators benefiting too as the copy Kitty Usher and take the opportunity to get rid of artex in their shiny new offices. And I wish I was actually being sarcastic.
Look, you’re taking this completely the wrong way. I’m not making any digs, in the same way that I wasn’t being arsey in my first post. I’m simply disagreeing with you.

You may be right that this could be abused by some, although I would have thought with the scrutiny that MP’s expenses now come under that it would be a very foolish one to abuse the system at this time. If caught they would lose their job. Not to say that some won’t.

I’m sure you do know more about IT than me. But if an MP and his two staff all need a new desktop PC then the £10k has been pretty much spent up. Obviously not all MP’s will have two staff, not all will need desktop PC’s but it’s just an example. To act like there won’t in any circumstance be significant costs associated with working from home is bonkers.

Nobody has said that it will cost MP’s £10,000 to set up offices from home, that’s just what the claimable expenses are capped at.

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by Rileybobs » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:03 pm

KateR wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:03 pm
why is it a question at all, people who are told to work from home do so on full salary, nobody is being asked to go on a furlough which is why the 80% would kick in, if you really have a question ask read and people will try and help you answer it. Actually making obviously false statements is just trying to add fuel to the fire that a few playing the blame game want. Hopefully this answers your question, which was clearly answered further up by others but you might of missed
Whooooooooooooooooosh.

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:05 pm

KateR wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:03 pm
why is it a question at all, people who are told to work from home do so on full salary, nobody is being asked to go on a furlough which is why the 80% would kick in, if you really have a question ask read and people will try and help you answer it. Actually making obviously false statements is just trying to add fuel to the fire that a few playing the blame game want. Hopefully this answers your question, which was clearly answered further up by others but you might of missed
I hope this is a wind up :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by KateR » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:11 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:05 pm
I hope this is a wind up :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
ok, I'll play the game, I simply do not understand the wooooosh and the laughter, perhaps you would kindly explain t to me, hopefully without the insults

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by Elizabeth » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:11 pm

This is why I think every poster has something to offer if you give them time, 8x8=64 was pretty smart

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:17 pm

KateR wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:11 pm
ok, I'll play the game, I simply do not understand the wooooosh and the laughter, perhaps you would kindly explain t to me, hopefully without the insults
It was a joke by Tall Paul. 80% of £80k is £64k and the 64k dollar question was an American game show and is now a popular saying for an important question.

I thought you may have been deliberately acting like you didn't realise to get a few nibbles

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by KateR » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:22 pm

ahhhhhh yes thank you and no I missed it, my bad, and obviously my apologies for definitely showing my ignorance, I remember the game show vaguely and thought it was a reference to that but completely missed the 8x 8 doh. Yes it was a good one, no excuses got me good and definitely a whooooosh :)
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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:22 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:03 pm
Look, you’re taking this completely the wrong way. I’m not making any digs, in the same way that I wasn’t being arsey in my first post. I’m simply disagreeing with you.

You may be right that this could be abused by some, although I would have thought with the scrutiny that MP’s expenses now come under that it would be a very foolish one to abuse the system at this time. If caught they would lose their job. Not to say that some won’t.

I’m sure you do know more about IT than me. But if an MP and his two staff all need a new desktop PC then the £10k has been pretty much spent up. Obviously not all MP’s will have two staff, not all will need desktop PC’s but it’s just an example. To act like there won’t in any circumstance be significant costs associated with working from home is bonkers.

Nobody has said that it will cost MP’s £10,000 to set up offices from home, that’s just what the claimable expenses are capped at.
You had me at desktop PC and it costing pretty much £10k for 3 !!! We are now talking 1978 type costs

I’m acting like it’s not significant costs associated from working from home because firstly it really isn’t and secondly I’ve already said a few times that they should already be set up for remote access.

And third whatever extra costs they do incur - like the extra few quid electricity (if that really is a thing) should be more than accommodated in their existing expenses budgets which should be benefiting from significantly less travel costs.

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:25 pm

KateR wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:22 pm
ahhhhhh yes thank you and no I missed it, my bad, and obviously my apologies for definitely showing my ignorance, I remember the game show vaguely and thought it was a reference to that but completely missed the 8x 8 doh. Yes it was a good one, no excuses got me good and definitely a whooooosh :)
That’s the second wooosh in 2 days.
One more and you will be officially nationalised as a fully fledged American !!

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by Rileybobs » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:32 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:22 pm
You had me at desktop PC and it costing pretty much £10k for 3 !!! We are now talking 1978 type costs

I’m acting like it’s not significant costs associated from working from home because firstly it really isn’t and secondly I’ve already said a few times that they should already be set up for remote access.

And third whatever extra costs they do incur - like the extra few quid electricity (if that really is a thing) should be more than accommodated in their existing expenses budgets which should be benefiting from significantly less travel costs.
When I buy PC’s for our company they cost the thick end of £2k a piece for a decent spec. Of course cheaper ones are available but not always fit for purpose.

Their existing expense budget may be specific in what it allows for eg. Travel, food, accommodation costs. It seems to me like a specific expense budget has been allowed for to enable MP’s to claim for costs associated with setting up from home. They will be claiming far less expenses, if any, from their normal expense budget as you say, but they will be making exceptional claims that they may in normal circumstances not be permitted to claim.

I’m not sure why you’re bringing their normal expenses into it as they will not be claiming for them so in essence you can substitute one for another.

It’s naive to say that there aren’t expenses associated with working from home, particularly in that line of work. And if there isn’t then why has this been approved?

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:44 pm

I am bringing up their normal expenses for pretty obvious reasons - the money they save on these means they still have enough expenses budget to pay for any working from home expenses...so they do not need an additional £10k a year expenses budget.

And then this also does not get in the news at a time when most people are facing cuts in wages, budgets etc
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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by claretspice » Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:12 pm

Let's kill this thread on the false premise its based on.

MPs are NOT getting an extra 10k. Not personally, or indeed necessarily at all.

They've had their expenses limit- the amount their can spend on all costs of being a constituency MP - raised by 10k. But as usual, they'll still have to justify those costs when they try and claim them.

If MPs have the necessary kit, they wont be able to claim. More likely it will be used to ensure their constituency operations can function and they can continue to employ and kit out, constituency staff who typically earn very modest wages for doing plenty of good work on the MPs behalf. Fortunately all expenses are public so if they are being allowed to buy plasma TVs it will all come out in the wash and the MPs concerned will presumably have it held against them at the next election.

The rush to demonize MPs is one of the more egregious examples of our current sensationalist culture. There are some bad lazy ones for sure. There are a few who get a profile to top up their wages either in or outside parliament. But an awful lot - I'd venture a majority - are doing a decent job for what they believe in, and being paid a relatively modest amount for what is an all-consuming, 7 day a week role with limited job security. On this occasion, its pretty obvious from this thread that most judgements have been passed without looking st the facts. All of which is bad news for the future calibre of MPs, because if we demonize even the decent ones now, they'll not hang around too long, and you can guarantee that increasingly it will be the narcissistic types who populate the queue to take over.
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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:16 pm

I don’t know anybody on this thread who has said they are getting an extra £10k.
I’m aware it’s an extra budget.

I don’t think it’s needed and it I think it sends out the wrong message too.

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by claretspice » Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:19 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:16 pm
I don’t know anybody on this thread who has said they are getting an extra £10k.
I’m aware it’s an extra budget.

I don’t think it’s needed and it I think it sends out the wrong message too.
If it's not needed, it wont - indeed can't- be spent. So until you have evidence of the claims that have been allowed that are spurious you're complaining about a possibility borne out of cynicism, not a reality.

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by TVC15 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:22 pm

claretspice wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:19 pm
If it's not needed, it wont - indeed can't- be spent. So until you have evidence of the claims that have been allowed that are spurious you're complaining about a possibility borne out of cynicism, not a reality.
Thanks for telling me what I am complaining about - very good of you....respectfully you are wrong but thanks all the same.

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by Rileybobs » Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:46 pm

claretspice wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:12 pm
Let's kill this thread on the false premise its based on.

MPs are NOT getting an extra 10k. Not personally, or indeed necessarily at all.

They've had their expenses limit- the amount their can spend on all costs of being a constituency MP - raised by 10k. But as usual, they'll still have to justify those costs when they try and claim them.

If MPs have the necessary kit, they wont be able to claim. More likely it will be used to ensure their constituency operations can function and they can continue to employ and kit out, constituency staff who typically earn very modest wages for doing plenty of good work on the MPs behalf. Fortunately all expenses are public so if they are being allowed to buy plasma TVs it will all come out in the wash and the MPs concerned will presumably have it held against them at the next election.

The rush to demonize MPs is one of the more egregious examples of our current sensationalist culture. There are some bad lazy ones for sure. There are a few who get a profile to top up their wages either in or outside parliament. But an awful lot - I'd venture a majority - are doing a decent job for what they believe in, and being paid a relatively modest amount for what is an all-consuming, 7 day a week role with limited job security. On this occasion, its pretty obvious from this thread that most judgements have been passed without looking st the facts. All of which is bad news for the future calibre of MPs, because if we demonize even the decent ones now, they'll not hang around too long, and you can guarantee that increasingly it will be the narcissistic types who populate the queue to take over.
Sums up my feelings exactly, and far more succinctly than I’d be able to without a couple of afternoon light ales.

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by KateR » Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:57 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:25 pm
That’s the second wooosh in 2 days.
One more and you will be officially nationalised as a fully fledged American !!
as long as it keeps making people laugh and happy I will at least be completing part of the reason for being here and trying to offering some sensible contributions, NOTE I did say trying.

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Re: MPs getting £10,000 to work from home

Post by Burnley Ace » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:52 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:19 pm

I can’t remember being given additional expenses for working from home and I don’t know anyone else who has got these either.
My work had to buy a fairly significant number of laptops. In addition if you are home working your employer is legally obligated to ensure you have a safe working environment- desk chair etc etc. Anyone who has to use the phone (call centre operator) will also need headsets.

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