Care Homes

[conyoviejo]

There seems to be an awful lot of deaths in care homes due to the corona virus as well as natural causes.Are the elderly getting the care and protection they need or are the government overlooking them to care for the less elderly people in hospital.Seems to be more and more care homes are having to cope with many deaths.. Also are the careers being given the help and equipment required ? Have we any carers posting on here who can enlighten us on their position . . ?

[tim_noone]

There seems to be an awful lot of deaths in care homes due to the corona virus as well as natural causes.Are the elderly getting the care and protection they need or are the government overlooking them to care for the less elderly people in hospital.Seems to be more and more care homes are having to cope with many deaths.. Also are the careers being given the help and equipment required ? Have we any carers posting on here who can enlighten us on their position . . ?

Posted regards care Homes on other threads.theres one in Colne registered no deaths of any description in two months....maybe they're doing something right. Or is it the calm b4 the storm? Hopefully not.

[Steve1956]

Posted regards care Homes on other threads.theres one in Colne registered no deaths of any description in two months....maybe they're doing something right. Or is it the calm b4 the storm? Hopefully not.

Are you a resident in the said care home Timmy?

[Chester Perry]

It has been a well known issue for weeks

[Quickenthetempo]

I presume they are just less able to fight it off. But most cases seem to be people dying with other illnesses as well as covid 19.

Journalists should be finding these things out instead of asking stupid questions to the government every day.

[Spijed]

I presume they are just less able to fight it off. But most cases seem to be people dying with other illnesses as well as covid 19.

Journalists should be finding these things out instead of asking stupid questions to the government every day.

It seems Germany is trying to attribute the cause of death to other illnesses where it can, rather than just the virus if they have it.

Would explain why they have fewer deaths from COVID 19

[Chester Perry]

I presume they are just less able to fight it off. But most cases seem to be people dying with other illnesses as well as covid 19.

Journalists should be finding these things out instead of asking stupid questions to the government every day.

It is more about doctors not sending them to hospital and journalists have been writing about it for weeks

[Dy1geo]

Before he passed away my father had care in his home and it would be nigh on impossible for the carers to have met his needs in full PPE. For someone “like my father” the chances of him having it and passing on would be virtually nil as he never left his home so PPE for the carers is not needed for people like him.

The problem with this virus is the asymptomatic nature of some carriers and sadly there will be carers with Covid but with no symptoms who will pass on this virus to the vulnerable.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

My brother is is working on behalf of care workers in respect of the lack of protective kit etc. Imagine there will be some grim figures from care homes once it all comes out.

[Devils_Advocate]

It is more about doctors not sending them to hospital and journalists have been writing about it for weeks

Impossible, journalists cant ask questions at the daily govt press conferences and investigate and write about other stuff as well.

[Top Claret]

I am more concerned about the carers not having the appropriate protective clothing etc

[Dy1geo]

I am more concerned about the carers not having the appropriate protective clothing etc

Care homes in the main are virtually quarantined so risk from residents is minimal, so surely the main danger is the carers unknowingly bringing in the virus.

[thatdberight]

This has been repeatedly covered in both print and broadcast media overthe last couple of weeks. The suggestion that it isn't is just wrong.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Care homes in the main are virtually quarantined so risk from residents is minimal, so surely the main danger is the carers unknowingly bringing in the virus.

Or relatives visiting before they were put on lockdown.

[Top Claret]

Care homes in the main are virtually quarantined so risk from residents is minimal, so surely the main danger is the carers unknowingly bringing in the virus.

People in care homes are always going to and throw from home to hospital. The only people under complete isolation are residents in nursing

[elwaclaret]

Family work in various homes up and down. Almost all deaths are being categorised as ‘natural’ with possible corona symptoms... to be officially diagnosed later.... funnily enough no reports have yet confirmed any even from the first cases.

So at a guess they are not too keen on that information causing panic, and so are sitting on cases outside the NHS

[thatdberight]

Care homes in the main are virtually quarantined so risk from residents is minimal, so surely the main danger is the carers unknowingly bringing in the virus.

Unless, as often happens, there are agency staff in ... one comes in asymptomatic... elderly person gets it... gets passed around... all of a sudden a care worker or workers is/are exposed.

I have no idea what the answer is - I despair of those who give easy answers to difficult problems so I'm not going to give one myself - but it must be a very challenging cirumstance for people who - by definition - deal with death regularly but didn't sign up for this. I admire those who are continuing to pitch up for work to deal with this when it would be possible to hide away.

[thatdberight]

Family work in various homes up and down. Almost all deaths are being categorised as ‘natural’ with possible corona symptoms... to be officially diagnosed later.... funnily enough no reports have yet confirmed any even from the first cases.

So at a guess they are not too keen on that information causing panic, and so are sitting on cases outside the NHS

Take me through that process, please. Are you saying doctors are not completing death certificates and just writing "TBC" effectively on them?

[Chester Perry]

Care homes in the main are virtually quarantined so risk from residents is minimal, so surely the main danger is the carers unknowingly bringing in the virus.

and family members before the lockdown - once it is in there though it can ravage the whole community as it spreads before symptoms are visible.

As for the figures and registrations showing other causes - that is just plain cover-up of real numbers. Having the virus has caused the death if it has shortened life expectancy of anyone by a even a few days irrespective of underlying issues.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Unless, as often happens, there are agency staff in ... one comes in asymptomatic... elderly person gets it... gets passed around... all of a sudden a care worker or workers is/are exposed.

I have no idea what the answer is - I despair of those who give easy answers to difficult problems so I'm not going to give one myself - but it must be a very challenging cirumstance for people who - by definition - deal with death regularly but didn't sign up for this. I admire those who are continuing to pitch up for work to deal with this when it would be possible to hide away.

Agree saw first hand when my mum was in a care home the amazing work these carers carry out. Hats off to them.

[Bosscat]

Unless, as often happens, there are agency staff in ... one comes in asymptomatic... elderly person gets it... gets passed around... all of a sudden a care worker or workers is/are exposed.

I have no idea what the answer is - I despair of those who give easy answers to difficult problems so I'm not going to give one myself - but it must be a very challenging cirumstance for people who - by definition - deal with death regularly but didn't sign up for this. I admire those who are continuing to pitch up for work to deal with this when it would be possible to hide away.

Look at what happened in Spain a few weeks ago Army called in when the residents were found abandoned... Questions will have to answered by the owners of those homes.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... e-52014023

[elwaclaret]

Take me through that process, please. Are you saying doctors are not completing death certificates and just writing "TBC" effectively on them?

All I am willing to say staff at more than one care home daily report to us suspected cases locally in Several (more than a couple) care homes between Burnley and Darwen, where staff are warned that corona virus is likely, but none has told staff of one case where the diagnoses is confirmed... and it remains a sacking offence for them to talk about how many are being carted out as of last week, when they were again warned from above.

[tim_noone]

Are you a resident in the said care home Timmy?

No....And Neither is my 89 year old Mother... fortunately in our family,care homes aren't really for us though I can count on more than one hand how many family members work in some capacity in hospitals..maternity units..hospices..and care homes. They're there at the start AND The End.

[Chester Perry]

I know someone who lost their mum at the weekend, died with Covoid symptoms in a care home. Not been able to visit for the previous few weeks as a result of lockdown - my heart goes out to them, it is an awful way to lose a loved one, knowing they are dying and not being able to be with them.

It is being repeated across the world in care homes and hospitals and I feel for those on the frontline who watch these people die while providing all the care they can and then have to give the news to grieving families, no doubt with many personal questions. All repeated many times a day for some, the toll must be horrendous.

[Burnley Ace]

How many residents in care homes would die of “normal” flu and the complications thereof?

[Chester Perry]

I suspect they may be a few questions about this in todays briefing - from the BBC Coronavirus: Older people being 'airbrushed' out of virus figures

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52275823

[dsr]

and family members before the lockdown - once it is in there though it can ravage the whole community as it spreads before symptoms are visible.

As for the figures and registrations showing other causes - that is just plain cover-up of real numbers. Having the virus has caused the death if it has shortened life expectancy of anyone by a even a few days irrespective of underlying issues.

In the same way as if a man is dying of lung cancer, and he has a week to live but catches a cold that finishes him off in two days, he has died of a cold, not of cancer, presumably. Would you accept cancer as a contributory cause, or would it be entirely because of the cold?

If people who die with virus infections are to be categorised as dying because of that infection, then the virus infection death rates must be vastly understated.

[dsr]

How many residents in care homes would die of “normal” flu and the complications thereof?

About 4,000 care home residents die per week. There are 410,000 care home residents and life expectancy is two years.

[Steve1956]

No....And Neither is my 89 year old Mother... fortunately in our family,care homes aren't really for us though I can count on more than one hand how many family members work in some capacity in hospitals..maternity units..hospices..and care homes. They're there at the start AND The End.

Ok...im sorry if i offended you it wasnt my intention.

[Jakubclaret]

How many residents in care homes would die of “normal” flu and the complications thereof?

That’s not really a issue, well it is but it’s more accepted everybody dies eventually, what’s more disturbing is the virus exacerbating already existing problems, without the virus it’d be more manageable & in some cases recovery, but the virus is ending some people life’s shorter than normally you would expect.

[elwaclaret]

How many residents in care homes would die of “normal” flu and the complications thereof?

That is the point... care workers are being told to keep their mouths shut... but at least two careers I know work in end of life care... they are not counted, at all. Others are used to seeing ‘normal wastage’ as part of the job... they are not idiots, they know but are being muffled.

[thatdberight]

I suspect they may be a few questions about this in todays briefing - from the BBC Coronavirus: Older people being 'airbrushed' out of virus figures

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52275823

As callous as it might seem, there are good reasons for that. Care homes aren't geared up to get coherent reliable information for daily briefings. Hospitals are. It's not true to say that they're not being counted. The ONS figures are the best we have and are published weekly and, as you'd expect, other countries struggle with that too.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-healt ... KKBN21L2TN

Bluntly, when health resources are stretched and you've got lots of old, frail people dying who were in their latter years, where's the resource going to come from to determine what exactly killed them? We can (and as far as I know do) test for this virus, but as to what actually killed them? Would a cold or flu have done the same? Sadly, at some point that becomes about statistical analysis of death rates and not the individual who has died.

[Jakubclaret]

That’s why some posters on the other thread have been saying the figures are too low & the mortality rate is higher than the statistics suggest.

[tim_noone]

Ok...im sorry if i offended you it wasnt my intention.

It's fine ....I know that.

[thatdberight]

And there goes this thread... one of the band of three, no four, no - actually it was just three... but now it's two (unless they're the same person) has arrived with their baffling mixture of inanities, conspiracy theories, bad statistical commentary and foretelling of the apocalypse. Shame - this one could have been quite useful.

[Chester Perry]

In the same way as if a man is dying of lung cancer, and he has a week to live but catches a cold that finishes him off in two days, he has died of a cold, not of cancer, presumably. Would you accept cancer as a contributory cause, or would it be entirely because of the cold?

If people who die with virus infections are to be categorised as dying because of that infection, then the virus infection death rates must be vastly understated.

Exactly - I have the underlying condition of Asthma, along with a heart murmur - which I have managed via diet and exercise for the last 30 years after deciding to give up the inhalers I had been on for a decade because I didn't want to use steroids anymore. If I get the virus I am more susceptible, if I die it will be the virus not the underlying issue (I fully expect to live another 30+ years in normal circumstances)

and yes that is the point the numbers are vastly understated - hence the asterisk next to them

[Chester Perry]

As callous as it might seem, there are good reasons for that. Care homes aren't geared up to get coherent reliable information for daily briefings. Hospitals are. It's not true to say that they're not being counted. The ONS figures are the best we have and are published weekly and, as you'd expect, other countries struggle with that too.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-healt ... KKBN21L2TN

Bluntly, when health resources are stretched and you've got lots of old, frail people dying who were in their latter years, where's the resource going to come from to determine what exactly killed them? We can (and as far as I know do) test for this virus, but as to what actually killed them? Would a cold or flu have done the same? Sadly, at some point that becomes about statistical analysis of death rates and not the individual who has died.

Not questioning the reasons for the understatement, just the general lack of public understanding of the asterisk next to the public figures,

[rayzer]

My wife works in a care home. Even today she still has no PPE. Its a private care home and my guess is because of finance. I won't go into details but she is a walking wreck and it's affecting all the family. If she quits her job she will get zero financial help. Its a terrible situation we are in.

[thatdberight]

Exactly - I have the underlying condition of Asthma, along with a heart murmur - which I have managed via diet and exercise for the last 30 years after deciding to give up the inhalers I had been on for a decade because I didn't want to use steroids anymore. If I get the virus I am more susceptible, if I die it will be the virus not the underlying issue (I fully expect to live another 30+ years in normal circumstances)

and yes that is the point the numbers are vastly understated - hence the asterisk next to them

If someone died in hospital in those circumstances, that would be counted immediately. I haven't seen anything persuasive that doctors are failing (in material numbers of cases) to record the virus on deaths in the community. So, I don't think we've yet got clear sight to say that this is a source of major under-reporting.

Stay safe.

[Jakubclaret]

And there goes this thread... one of the band of three, no four, no - actually it was just three... but now it's two (unless they're the same person) has arrived with their baffling mixture of inanities, conspiracy theories, bad statistical commentary and foretelling of the apocalypse. Shame - this one could have been quite useful.

Not really, we are consistently hearing reports of people dying from the virus & not being included in the count, hence understandably so doubts appearing. You can dismiss the reports or you can believe them, but if you believe them you can’t believe the official numbers, they conflict with each other.

[thatdberight]

My wife works in a care home. Even today she still has no PPE. Its a private care home and my guess is because of finance. I won't go into details but she is a walking wreck and it's affecting all the family. If she quits her job she will get zero financial help. Its a terrible situation we are in.

[elwaclaret]

And there goes this thread... one of the band of three, no four, no - actually it was just three... but now it's two (unless they're the same person) has arrived with their baffling mixture of inanities, conspiracy theories, bad statistical commentary and foretelling of the apocalypse. Shame - this one could have been quite useful.

Not sure if that was aimed at me... I’m no conspiracy theorist, if so . How are people to go into detail when careers jobs are on the line? It is not conspiracy theories that stop detail... it is the livelihoods of those directly involved, and the threats they are working under that makes it impossible to talk figures and locations. Not the wish to be cloak and dagger.

I see the daily ambulance and police at the one at the end of our street... take it or leave it as you desire.

[thatdberight]

Not sure if that was aimed at me... I’m no conspiracy theorist, if so . How are people to go into detail when careers jobs are on the line? It is not conspiracy theories that stop detail... it is the livelihoods of those directly involved, and the threats they are working under that makes it impossible to talk figures and locations. Not the wish to be cloak and dagger.

I see the daily ambulance and police at the one at the end of our street... take it or leave it as you desire.

Not aimed at you at all. I'm absolutely taking your insight as your genuine experience which is interesting to read.

With that, I'll pop off this thread entirely as it has unfortunately come to jakubclaret's attention so you'll get the benefit of his wisdom.

[tim_noone]

My wife works in a care home. Even today she still has no PPE. Its a private care home and my guess is because of finance. I won't go into details but she is a walking wreck and it's affecting all the family. If she quits her job she will get zero financial help. Its a terrible situation we are in.

Some sections of the caring industry are treated shockingly in terms of conditions and very poorly paid.good Luck in a difficult situation.

[thatdberight]

Some sections of the caring industry are treated shockingly in terms of conditions and very poorly paid.good Luck in a difficult situation.

It's a very poor situation that we have for social care - no government over many years (but since Conservatives are most often in power they take most of the blame) has dealt with this properly. The craven capitulation to those who own their own houses and somehow feel they're entitled to pass on the hundreds of thousands they made on it (through nothing other than geography, timing, luck and having had a bit of money to begin with) was shameful. The Conservatives should have told these people it was happening and if they didn't like it, they were welcome to vote for Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party and see if that protected their assets any better.

[Mala591]

My wife works in a care home. Even today she still has no PPE. Its a private care home and my guess is because of finance. I won't go into details but she is a walking wreck and it's affecting all the family. If she quits her job she will get zero financial help. Its a terrible situation we are in.

This is a serious and unnecessary situation to be in. She should contact her MP immediately. Any decent MP should have this sorted within a few days.

[evensteadiereddie]

Any decent MP wouldn't have been complicit in allowing this fiasco to build up over the last few years.

[TVC15]

Social care and the care home sector has been a scandal for years now.
Anybody who does not think the government is currently sweeping this under the carpet in terms of what is happening during the virus is naive.
I know of at least one care home in burnley where every resident has got the virus and a number of patients have already died and so has a member of staff.
This is actually a very nice (and very expensive) care home and they have had significant problems getting hold of PPE and in the first few weeks there was virtually none for the staff.

[thatdberight]

Anybody who does not think the government is currently sweeping this under the carpet in terms of what is happening during the virus is naive.

Not just government then. Supposedly independent scientists, medical officers and medical staff.

[TVC15]

Not just government then. Supposedly independent scientists, medical officers and medical staff.

Not sure what you are referring to by I am talking about what is actually happening at care homes is not being shared by the government - probably because it is would be too shocking / upsetting for the public.