Wheres Boris...

[dsr]

They were somewhat in a dilemma with the nightingale hospital. The government was likely to get criticised if they built it and it doesn't get used and also criticised if they didn't build it and it was needed. Forecasting demand with something unknown like this isn't easy.

However, the area where it seems there are struggles, as was predicted, is the staffing. I was talking to someone who is working at nightingale who was saying that it's being run with a skeleton staff and they don't really know where they'll be able to get more staff from (obviously pulling them out of other hospitals is a bit pointless). This article seems to suggest similar https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... s-treated/

If coronavirus cases explode to the point where the Nightingale hospital is full, it will be staffed. Staffing levels and staffing expertise will be a long way short of the norm, because obviously it's a lot quicker to build a hospital than to train a nurse, but in extremis, better a partially trained nurse or a trained-to-do-one-job nurse or even a just-stand-there-and-shout-if-the-machine-makes-a-noise nurse will be better than nothing.

[tiger76]

Back in Downing Street.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52431913

[ElectroClaret]

Probably out buying nappies. His partner Carrie Symonds has given birth to a baby boy.

[Pimlico_Claret]

Probably out buying nappies. His partner Carrie Symonds has given birth to a baby boy.

Paternity leave beckons....

[Gordaleman]

Probably out buying nappies. His partner Carrie Symonds has given birth to a baby boy.

Which means he'll probably miss today's Question Time.

Another excuse to hide.

[TVC15]

How many is that then now ?
Between 5 and 10 ?

[Loyalclaret]

Good luck to them both--it is a weird time to have a baby.

If you stay in hospital there are distancing rules, outside families member can't visit. Shopping for extra bits you need is harder and no places where young families go are open.

[Gordaleman]

At least Boris won't need parenting skills. No doubt the poor little sprog will be nannied until it's old enough to go to boarding school. I bet they've already been on to Eton to guarantee it a place.

Actually, I'm amazed that the little boy was born in an (Unnamed) NHS hospital, but no doubt that was a political decision in the current climate.

[Steve1956]

How many is that then now ?
Between 5 and 10 ?

A proper shagger is Boris, i love a bloke with balls!

[evensteadiereddie]

Mmmmm, OK, whatever floats your boat.


He's probably counting the kids and checking the injunction's small print...

[ElectroClaret]

As someone just mentioned on the telly, if it was born at St Thomas's hospital, he's certainly had his moneys worth out of that place....

[RingoMcCartney]

In the last year -

They said he didnt have enough support in parliament to get on the shortlist for Tory leadership. He did and he walked it.

He then lead the Tories to an 80 seat majority .

He inflicted the worst electoral result the labour has suffered for decades and decades.

He got Brexit done!

He nearly died.

When he's not been on his death bed, hes been running the country during an unprecedented global pandemic.

He's fathered a baby boy.

Bloody hell he's been busy. Fair play to him.

[Bosscat]

Congratulations Boris and Carrie on the birth of your son.

[Volvoclaret]

Strange that Remainers attack Boris for his prolific love life when it almost compulsive that leaders of France, Italy et al have mistresses. Just a thought.

[dpinsussex]

As someone just mentioned on the telly, if it was born at St Thomas's hospital, he's certainly had his moneys worth out of that place....

At least he is paying tax to pay for it

Congrats Boris and Carrie

[Silkyskills1]

In the last year -

They said he didnt have enough support in parliament to get on the shortlist for Tory leadership. He did and he walked it.

He then lead the Tories to an 80 seat majority .

He inflicted the worst electoral result the labour has suffered for decades and decades.

He got Brexit done!

He nearly died.

When he's not been on his death bed, hes been running the country during an unprecedented global pandemic.

He's fathered a baby boy.

Bloody hell he's been busy. Fair play to him.

Preparation, organisation, direction, contingency planning leave a sour taste for many.
Edit: great little article.in HuffPost on reasons not to clap tonight.

[Devils_Advocate]

Johnson & Cummings - A Timeline of Failure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twDYflcq1ls

[AndrewJB]

“Lie lie lie” is business as usual. Johnson blaming care homes for the high number of Covid deaths in them, and Raab claiming the EU sent invites to their procurement scheme “to old email addresses.” More concerned with exonerating themselves that acknowledging reality and dealing with the issues.

[kentonclaret]

Boris claiming that Care Homes "didn't really follow the procedures" after he contracted the disease shaking hands with patients in a Covid19 ward for a photo opportunity during a hospital visit really takes the biscuit.

I heard an American commentator saying at the weekend that if it wasn't for Trump attracting so much ridicule Boris would be the world leader viewed as an utter buffoon. Like father like son it would appear.

[Grumps]

“Lie lie lie” is business as usual. Johnson blaming care homes for the high number of Covid deaths in them, and Raab claiming the EU sent invites to their procurement scheme “to old email addresses.” More concerned with exonerating themselves that acknowledging reality and dealing with the issues.

As I've said before, whilst other care homes were complaining that they had no PPE, no information etc, one I knew had all the PPE they required, all the information they needed, followed that advice and have not had one case of the virus, like every business, there are some good managers, and some bad ones, so he will be right in respect of some care homes.

[Buxtonclaret]

Boris claiming that Care Homes "didn't really follow the procedures" after he contracted the disease shaking hands with patients in a Covid19 ward for a photo opportunity during a hospital visit really takes the biscuit.

I heard an American commentator saying at the weekend that if it wasn't for Trump attracting so much ridicule Boris would be the world leader viewed as an utter buffoon. Like father like son it would appear.

That post just about sums things up as they are.
Two rabid World Leaders with versions of what's going on that contradict reality.
Yet they both demand we believe them.

[AndrewJB]

As I've said before, whilst other care homes were complaining that they had no PPE, no information etc, one I knew had all the PPE they required, all the information they needed, followed that advice and have not had one case of the virus, like every business, there are some good managers, and some bad ones, so he will be right in respect of some care homes.

Judging by the anger his claim has generated, and the fact we all know hospitals were sending untested patients to care homes (again the government not having enough testing kits) I’d say Johnson is ducking responsibility and resorting to lies.

Now they’ve even called a halt to announcing the number of new tests, because they can’t even get that together. It’s a clown car, and to think they’re now in charge of bringing the country out of this.

[Grumps]

Judging by the anger his claim has generated, and the fact we all know hospitals were sending untested patients to care homes (again the government not having enough testing kits) I’d say Johnson is ducking responsibility and resorting to lies.

Now they’ve even called a halt to announcing the number of new tests, because they can’t even get that together. It’s a clown car, and to think they’re now in charge of bringing the country out of this.

Perhaps the anger is coming from those who got it wrong?
Do you think that every care home in the country managed this crisis correctly
A simple yes or no is fine.

[evensteadiereddie]

As correctly as they could - so yes.

[BenWickes]

Staying off politics but have to say anyone who blames the Government needs to take a long, hard look at themselves. I know several 'care workers' who breached lockdown and then went back to work at care homes. Also know a member of NHS staff, with an 'I am a key worker' sticker on her car. Who blatantly broke every rule of lockdown weeks before it was allowed. She even knocked on my door and invited me to her house for a Bingo Night. Nurse - Key Worker-Bingo Night in a lockdown. She was out clapping every Thursday night though. That's just the people I know and I am pretty much in a small network of friends. I do know that at least three 'carers/nurses' totally ignored lockdown rules.

[evensteadiereddie]

You're not a mate of Dom the Dwarf too, I hope...

[BenWickes]

You're not a mate of Dom the Dwarf too, I hope...

If that's aimed at me. 3 carers/nurse who broke lockdown and went to work in an environment with very vulnerable people. Look at those people before blaming. That's just from my street and my work. If that's the same across every street in the country. That's a lot of nurses and carers who put their patients at risk!

[Zlatan]

Staying off politics but have to say anyone who blames the Government needs to take a long, hard look at themselves. I know several 'care workers' who breached lockdown and then went back to work at care homes. Also know a member of NHS staff, with an 'I am a key worker' sticker on her car. Who blatantly broke every rule of lockdown weeks before it was allowed. She even knocked on my door and invited me to her house for a Bingo Night. Nurse - Key Worker-Bingo Night in a lockdown. She was out clapping every Thursday night though. That's just the people I know and I am pretty much in a small network of friends. I do know that at least three 'carers/nurses' totally ignored lockdown rules.

Fantastic start to the post, kept up that lie for at least a fraction of a second. It’s no wonder you can’t see what this bunch of incompetent idiots have done.

All of your individual examples are wrong, I agree. However how can you expect the public to do the right thing when those who are in power don’t, and they also don’t know their ar5e from their elbow either.

[BenWickes]

Listen! I don't agree with a lot of what the Government has done, but then would any other party have done differently? It's new for everyone. One expects at the very least that people are responsible. You cannot go throwing accusations at the Government when a nurse who CLEARLY is making the point she is a 'key worker' then breaks lockdown rules several times.
I am not here for politics but that hypocrite three doors up prompted my anger. You cannot rule a country by consensus and by allowing people to use common sense. We all know that people aren't capable of making sensible decisions.
Could things be done differently? Yes. People are just selfish. When carers and nurses are breaking lockdown rules and endangering lives. Don't blame the Government. Look at people in society and just admit. People are not capable of thinking for themselves.

[Zlatan]

Listen! I don't agree with a lot of what the Government has done, but then would any other party have done differently? It's new for everyone. One expects at the very least that people are responsible. You cannot go throwing accusations at the Government when a nurse who CLEARLY is making the point she is a 'key worker' then breaks lockdown rules several times.
I am not here for politics but that hypocrite three doors up prompted my anger. You cannot rule a country by consensus and by allowing people to use common sense. We all know that people aren't capable of making sensible decisions.
Could things be done differently? Yes. People are just selfish. When carers and nurses are breaking lockdown rules and endangering lives. Don't blame the Government. Look at people in society and just admit. People are not capable of thinking for themselves.

...exactly - which is why we needed clear and concise instructions, not shaking hands with Covid-19 patients; going to castles for a birthday picnic etc. The government have been very weak, and idiotic. I can’t stand people who defend them and I get triggered by it I’m afraid.

[Rowls]

Just popping in to say "hello" to all the Boris watchers on here.

Hello!

[Zlatan]

Just popping in to say "hello" to all the Boris watchers on here.

Hello!

TRIGGERED.....!!!!

[Rowls]

I don't even know if Boris is actually "in the headlines" right now.

Obviously as the PM he's likely to be but it's very, very easy for me to avoid the British press when I want to.

All I can say is he's not in the news in France.

[Grumps]

As correctly as they could - so yes.

All care homes are inspected, and the results are on the Internet

In normal times a lot of these homes get poor marks for the management of the home

Are you suggesting that these normally poorly managed homes, all suddenly improved massively from March?

[BenWickes]

...exactly - which is why we needed clear and concise instructions, not shaking hands with Covid-19 patients; going to castles for a birthday picnic etc. The government have been very weak, and idiotic. I can’t stand people who defend them and I get triggered by it I’m afraid.

I'll defend the Government because it's pretty bloody obvious! If you need a guiding hand on from a Government what to do then it's amazing you wake up in the morning. Government issues guidelines, it's up to the moronic public to take it on board. Protests, pub brawls, no social distancing, Liverpool fans. Nurses, carers not caring. How is this the Government's fault if people are just thick?!
I'll reiterate this. No party would have had a clue how to deal with this. It's a learning curve. The government has been very lenient. Maybe should have been a harder crackdown. It really is simple to understand. If carers and nurses are ignoring the welfare of their own patients, then bragging that they're key workers. While morons protest and celebrate on the streets. Is that the Government's fault? Labour would be the first to complain if the police started using live rounds and interning people who broke the rules. As I say. People are not capable of being sensible or thinking for themselves.
For the record. I'd have done things a lot differently. I don't think they have handled it well but I don't think any party would have done any different.

[TVC15]

Listen! I don't agree with a lot of what the Government has done, but then would any other party have done differently? It's new for everyone. One expects at the very least that people are responsible. You cannot go throwing accusations at the Government when a nurse who CLEARLY is making the point she is a 'key worker' then breaks lockdown rules several times.
I am not here for politics but that hypocrite three doors up prompted my anger. You cannot rule a country by consensus and by allowing people to use common sense. We all know that people aren't capable of making sensible decisions.
Could things be done differently? Yes. People are just selfish. When carers and nurses are breaking lockdown rules and endangering lives. Don't blame the Government. Look at people in society and just admit. People are not capable of thinking for themselves.

The vast majority of nurses risked their lives during their crisis. The way you are talking about this you seem to be doing your own survey based on your street that most of them were breaking lockdown rules. My wife is an NHS nurse and nobody has been stricter about complying with lockdown than the doctors, nurses and staff where she works.....but of course out of the millions who work in the sector there will be a fraction that break guidelines. There is in all sectors of society but at least in the NHS sector when this minority are not breaking the rules they were risking their lives to protect the rest of us. These nurses were under more pressure and stress than the rest of us - that’s not excusing them for breaking the rules but it’s pretty easy for those not in the position they were to sit there and judge.

Those very predictable posters suggesting that Boris has got it right with his ridiculous accusations should maybe have a look at what the professional trade body for care homes have been saying for months now on the situation. Just because the odd care home managed to get hold of PPE at an early stage does not mean the others were badly managed.

The lack of testing of staff, the lack of PPE, sending patients from hospitals who clearly had a much bigger risk of carrying the virus back into the care homes etc etc were the reasons why so many people died in care homes.

Did the government and the health secretary not apologise to the sector several weeks into the crisis about the lack of focus given to the sector ? Did they not say they had let the sector down ?
Or have some people got a selective memory already ?

Boris is doing now exactly what Trump does - he trying to rewrite history to save his own skin.

[Grumps]

...exactly - which is why we needed clear and concise instructions, not shaking hands with Covid-19 patients; going to castles for a birthday picnic etc. The government have been very weak, and idiotic. I can’t stand people who defend them and I get triggered by it I’m afraid.

Just to remind you.... Nobody went to a castle

[BenWickes]

The vast majority of nurses risked their lives during their crisis. The way you are talking about this you seem to be doing your own survey based on your street that most of them were breaking lockdown rules. My wife is an NHS nurse and nobody has been stricter about complying with lockdown than the doctors, nurses and staff where she works.....but of course out of the millions who work in the sector there will be a fraction that break guidelines. There is in all sectors of society but at least in the NHS sector when this minority are not breaking the rules they were risking their lives to protect the rest of us. These nurses were under more pressure and stress than the rest of us - that’s not excusing them for breaking the rules but it’s pretty easy for those not in the position they were to sit there and judge.

Those very predictable posters suggesting that Boris has got it right with his ridiculous accusations should maybe have a look at what the professional trade body for care homes have been saying for months now on the situation. Just because the odd care home managed to get hold of PPE at an early stage does not mean the others were badly managed.

The lack of testing of staff, the lack of PPE, sending patients from hospitals who clearly had a much bigger risk of carrying the virus back into the care homes etc etc were the reasons why so many people died in care homes.

Did the government and the health secretary not apologise to the sector several weeks into the crisis about the lack of focus given to the sector ? Did they not say they had let the sector down ?
Or have some people got a selective memory already ?

Boris is doing now exactly what Trump does - he trying to rewrite history to save his own skin.

I've already stated the Government could have done things differently at least twice. In response to your NHS section. I brought up three people. Surely that's three people too many. I needn't go on. They're in the NHS by choice. Don't expect me to be happy clapping them. What I won't have is NHS staff expecting special notation when they're as bad as everyone else. My point is. If I can find three carers/nurses who flouted laws within one street and workplace. How many are there nationally? If you're choosing to take offence at that rather than worry about how many more flouted the laws at the expense of their patients. Then there's no hope for you. I am sure some NHS/Care staff do a wonderful job but don't paint them all as wonderful people. My fiancee left her work as a highly qualified carer because she was shocked how badly people in care homes were treated.

[TVC15]

If you're choosing to take offence at that rather than worry about how many more flouted the laws at the expense of their patients. Then there's no hope for you. I am sure some NHS/Care staff do a wonderful job but don't paint them all as wonderful people.

WTF are you talking about now ?
I said that out of millions employees some will have broken lockdown rules - just like in all sectors.

No hope for me ?!!! You sound disturbed.

[Gordaleman]

Well, we all know now after this week-ends little speech from Boris, that the care homes didn't follow procedures and that's why about 20,000 people died in them.

Not the governments fault, or Boris's fault because he didn't supply them with PPE quick enough. Or because he felt it was OK to send hospital patients back to care homes without testing them first. "Oh no, you can't blame me gov."

Sorry Boris, you can't make the rules, then say it's not my fault when things go wrong.

Trump is alive and well and living in No, 10 Downing Street.

[Spijed]

I've already stated the Government could have done things differently at least twice. In response to your NHS section. I brought up three people. Surely that's three people too many. I needn't go on. They're in the NHS by choice. Don't expect me to be happy clapping them. What I won't have is NHS staff expecting special notation when they're as bad as everyone else. My point is. If I can find three carers/nurses who flouted laws within one street and workplace. How many are there nationally? If you're choosing to take offence at that rather than worry about how many more flouted the laws at the expense of their patients. Then there's no hope for you. I am sure some NHS/Care staff do a wonderful job but don't paint them all as wonderful people. My fiancee left her work as a highly qualified carer because she was shocked how badly people in care homes were treated.

You are accusing some nurses and carers of acting recklessly. Do you believe that the government, whilst making mistakes, have acted honestly and sincerely for 100% of the time?

[Grumps]

Well, we all know now after this week-ends little speech from Boris, that the care homes didn't follow procedures and that's why about 20,000 people died in them.

Not the governments fault, or Boris's fault because he didn't supply them with PPE quick enough. Or because he felt it was OK to send hospital patients back to care homes without testing them first. "Oh no, you can't blame me gov."

Sorry Boris, you can't make the rules, then say it's not my fault when things go wrong.

Trump is alive and well and living in No, 10 Downing Street.

He actually said "some care homes" and that will be correct, whether he should have said it in public is another matter

A few weeks ago the figure was about 65% of care homes have had no infection, obviously they did things right, some homes will have had infections that nobody could have prevented, some will have been brought in from hospitals, but some will have occurred through mismanagement. Not the fault of the carers, but the management. Like I said above, the poorly managed homes didn't suddenly become world beaters in March.

[Gordaleman]

He actually said "some care homes" and that will be correct, whether he should have said it in public is another matter

A few weeks ago the figure was about 65% of care homes have had no infection, obviously they did things right, some homes will have had infections that nobody could have prevented, some will have been brought in from hospitals, but some will have occurred through mismanagement. Not the fault of the carers, but the management. Like I said above, the poorly managed homes didn't suddenly become world beaters in March.

And the poorly managed homes were the only ones without PPE? And the poorly managed homes were the only ones who had infected patients sent to them without being tested?

I think not. Boris's handling of this crisis has shone a very bright light on his complete incompetence. It won't be long before the 'Men in grey suits' get rid of him.

[taio]

And the poorly managed homes were the only ones without PPE? And the poorly managed homes were the only ones who had infected patients sent to them without being tested?

I think not. Boris's handling of this crisis has shone a very bright light on his complete incompetence. It won't be long before the 'Men in grey suits' get rid of him.

The well managed homes self isolated residents discharged from hospital for 14 days, in accordance with the government guidance, and managed their stock and ordering of PPE more effectively. That doesn't mean fault doesn't also lie elsewhere including the government obviously.

[mdd2]

There will have been faults on all sides. The answer to this virus is social distancing (SD) and meticulous hand washing. This will be very difficult in many care homes and the PPE even if all homes had it would only protect staff from catching or spreading the virus. Obviously I have not been in all care homes but the last one I visited would have had big problems with SD. A really difficult task made worse by a lack of PPE and a high death rate of those infected inevitable given the co-morbidities of those in most care homes, particularly nursing homes.
Hospitals will have had big problems too, as unless everyone wore PPE SD would be difficult, testing not fool proof so that Covid patients would end up in non-Covid wards. It is important people remember that testing will miss cases of Covid and certainly at the time the chances of the first swab being positive was around 70-80% and with self swabbing it is possible that would be even less.
This virus is alive and well, we won't be if we continue to behave the way it appears from the TV coverage.

[Devils_Advocate]

He actually said "some care homes" and that will be correct, whether he should have said it in public is another matter

A few weeks ago the figure was about 65% of care homes have had no infection, obviously they did things right, some homes will have had infections that nobody could have prevented, some will have been brought in from hospitals, but some will have occurred through mismanagement. Not the fault of the carers, but the management. Like I said above, the poorly managed homes didn't suddenly become world beaters in March.

And some as the reports show suffered because the relied on and followed the govts advice. The care homes that did best were the ones that recognised early the govts advice was short of what was needed and took it upon themselves to take their own initiative.

Fair play to the leaders in those care homes as they undoubtedly saved lives but that doesn't mean the care homes who followed govt advice or were not in the position as some of the others to be proactive were at fault.

I would expect that there will be care homes in places like Lancashire that did a lot better than places like London because the virus hit London first and it was there elderly people were being evicted from hospitals in to care homes at much greater numbers to protect the NHS being overwhelmed than in places like up here where we had much more advance warning

Also care homes are going to have a whole range of different finances, personel and supply chains at their disposal so through no fault of their own some were nowhere near as well placed to battle against a pandemic crisis.

Again this is where you hope the govt will provide support and leadership to help everyone through the crisis but no the care homes were given poor direction and therefore left to some extent on their own. Some managed and did brilliantly and some didnt but to hold up those who somehow got through it as a stick to beat the ones that struggled in order to defend a shambolic govt is unfortunately par for the course with some of the Tory apologists on here and throughout our country

[Gordaleman]

The well managed homes self isolated residents discharged from hospital for 14 days, in accordance with the government guidance, and managed their stock and ordering of PPE more effectively. That doesn't mean fault doesn't also lie elsewhere including the government obviously.

That may be true in some cases but even so, sending knowingly infected patients to care homes that clearly don't have the same isolation facilities as hospitals was a stupid idea. And even well run homes didn't get the PPE they required for weeks after they requested it, because the Tories had let emergency stocks run out. They then made a big news item about bringing in PPE from Turkey, only for it to be dumped when it was found to be unsuitable. Who was doing the procurement, Donald Trump?

[AndrewJB]

I'll defend the Government because it's pretty bloody obvious! If you need a guiding hand on from a Government what to do then it's amazing you wake up in the morning. Government issues guidelines, it's up to the moronic public to take it on board. Protests, pub brawls, no social distancing, Liverpool fans. Nurses, carers not caring. How is this the Government's fault if people are just thick?!
I'll reiterate this. No party would have had a clue how to deal with this. It's a learning curve. The government has been very lenient. Maybe should have been a harder crackdown. It really is simple to understand. If carers and nurses are ignoring the welfare of their own patients, then bragging that they're key workers. While morons protest and celebrate on the streets. Is that the Government's fault? Labour would be the first to complain if the police started using live rounds and interning people who broke the rules. As I say. People are not capable of being sensible or thinking for themselves.
For the record. I'd have done things a lot differently. I don't think they have handled it well but I don't think any party would have done any different.

I think even a Theresa May government would have done better than this one. As has been mentioned, the messaging was anything but clear. Johnson managed to stick to “get Brexit done” but couldn’t keep to pandemic advice. Johnson also got rid of any experienced MPs before the last election, and filled his cabinet with yes-people. So a group of substandard people led by a substandard entitled fat bloke. A government of Dianne Abbott’s would have got more right.

[Spijed]

Apparently worried about the Union.

So, off to Scotland he pops.....

[Bordeauxclaret]

On a Thursday? He must have swapped his days off this week.