All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:43 pm

Wouldn’t say Blacklaw was a shoe-in as we also had Harry Thompson. Doug Collins earlier in the thread wouldn’t get anywhere near the squad. Never saw any memorable examples from Gordon Harris but he was usually first to come to the rescue when any of our lads were coming off second best. Maybe some team selections would be more useful, blending hard with skilful as I’d still want to win the game. So I’m gonna get my thinking head on to decide on the system, probably either 3-5-2 or 2-3-5. Depends on my final team selection.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Burnley1989 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:43 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:07 pm
We didn’t see it whilst at Burnley but by all accounts John Walters is known to be a bit tasty.
Supposed to be solid, every player that played with him seems to label him the hardest player. Certainly has no fear of Roy Keane

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Hapag Lloyd » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:44 pm

I read somewhere that Super Johnny Francis was quite a handy lad.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Buxtonclaret » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:49 pm

Dyched wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:36 pm


I’d say Ben Mee. Not one for diving in but can handle a rough tackle. Barton? Nah, he whinges like a right bitch when on the receiving end

Know what you mean in his pre Burnley days. He did sometimes bleat a bit.

Not here he didn't though. Only time I saw him come close to chucking his toys out was v Lincoln in the cup.
Time and again in most matches early on he was cynically targeted by the oppos trying to get a bite.
Time and again he just laughed, got up and got on with the game.
He's got to be credited, along with SD, for that.
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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Dyched » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:54 pm

Buxtonclaret wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:49 pm
Know what you mean in his pre Burnley days. He did sometimes bleat a bit.

Not here he didn't though. Only time I saw him come close to chucking his toys out was v Lincoln in the cup.
Time and again in most matches early on he was cynically targeted by the oppos trying to get a bite.
Time and again he just laughed, got up and got on with the game.
He's got to be credited, along with SD, for that.
I’m probably letting that Lincoln game overshadow everything else he did here tbh.
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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:58 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:22 pm
It depends what criteria you judge on. These two would put the eeby jeebies up anyone and would better most people in a fight.

I can't give an opinion on the older generation players but maybe nostalgia plays a big part? They certainly didn't look built enough to take on the ultra fit players of today.
Although you would say they should of been more mentally tough.
but you quote Ade who was anything but a hard man. If you consider one incident when he was wound up, or sheer pace to make a hard man then so be it but he wouldn't be within a country mile of getting into a hard man team for me.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:03 pm

Blacklaw

Angus
Waldron
Mee
Newton

Summerbee
Noble
O’Neill
Ball

Hankin
Lochhead
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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Claret Toni » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:09 pm

I'd always thought of Dobo as being a hard player, i.e. not a dirty player.

I remember a game against the Villa when he challenged for a header, the ball went out for a corner, and he had treatment for the head injury. Resultant corner and he scored with a thumping header - that's a hard player to me.

He could put in a challenge too. Recall at Elland Road him putting in a strong 50/50 challenge on Norman Hunter and leaving Hunter slow to get up. There appeared a sharp intake of breath from the Leeds fans as much to say you can't do that to our Norman. Perhaps a less hard player would have avoided the challenge.

Respect the earlier views from that 70s team, but to me Dobo was the epitome of that oft miss used phrase "Hard but Fair".

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Silkyskills1 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:28 pm

Darnhill Claret wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:43 pm
Wouldn’t say Blacklaw was a shoe-in as we also had Harry Thompson. Doug Collins earlier in the thread wouldn’t get anywhere near the squad. Never saw any memorable examples from Gordon Harris but he was usually first to come to the rescue when any of our lads were coming off second best. Maybe some team selections would be more useful, blending hard with skilful as I’d still want to win the game. So I’m gonna get my thinking head on to decide on the system, probably either 3-5-2 or 2-3-5. Depends on my final team selection.
Have to disagree with you on Gordon Harris. Formed a formidably tough and skilful partnership with Brian O'Neil but as you say he was always available to his team mates when things got a.little naughty. The FA cup tie at White Hart Lane on a frozen pitch in '63 and for myself a game at Turf Moor on my birthday in'66 v Liverpool. First half after Willie Irvine put us 1 up Tommy Smith committed a dreadful challenge on Willie. The game continued and we went 2. up in the second half. Just after that goal, Bomber, who had bided his time, exacted sweet revenge on Smith leaving him writhing on the wet pitch and calmly collected the ball for a throw in which he was expecting as a result of the challenge.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by claretblue » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:44 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:00 pm
On the subject of which one of the four told me, it would be unfair to say to be honest but you might just find him on the picture below.

Image
Dennis Law? :?

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Elizabeth » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:49 pm

Here's a side Darnhill's team might look forward to playing against

David Seaman
Danny Rose
Gordon McQueen
Mustafi
Ashley Young

James Maddison
Guendouzi
Dele Alli
Wilfred Zaha

Jamie Vardy
Didier Drogba

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:51 pm

Always classed ‘Bomber’ as a hard man but as I say I had only the evidence of him always being first to the rescue. Whereas with John Angus saw him teach Terry Paine a lesson after he’d niggled and moaned from the kick-off. Paine noticeably quieter for the rest of the game (unless he went off). Glad to hear about Gordon putting one on Smith as whenever ‘Taffy’ played against Liverpool, Smith would target him from the off.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Lord Beamish » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:55 pm

When the WYC met in Bradford, last year, Roger Eli, who met up with us, said that John Francis was the hardest player he ever played with. He was a nice guy but really didn’t take any messing when the gloves came off.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:07 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:55 pm
When the WYC met in Bradford, last year, Roger Eli, who met up with us, said that John Francis was the hardest player he ever played with. He was a nice guy but really didn’t take any messing when the gloves came off.
And Roger Eli wasn’t far wrong either - tough player was John Francis

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by FCBurnley » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:09 pm

Blacklaw
Angus
Mee
Blant
Newton

Billy Elliot
Ball
O’Neill
Harris

Lochhead
Francis

Subs

Hankin
Barton
Docherty
Nulty

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Elizabeth » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:12 pm

Wish I could remember where I heard the story from where Smith kicked James up in the air repeatedly in the early stages of a game.
Taffy complaints to the referee led to the referee taking some action.
The next time it happened the ref had words with Taffy to the effect that he should stop complaining and if he wasn't happy to play on the other wing

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Tricky Trevor » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:14 pm

Dyched wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:54 pm
I’m probably letting that Lincoln game overshadow everything else he did here tbh.
The whole team were rattled by the weak ref and JBGs injury. Filthy side Lincoln but as the senior side we should have handled it better.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Bigvince » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:21 pm

Dazzler wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:57 am
"Na na na na na Big Vince,Big Vince"
:D

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:23 pm

I've got a "tough" 10 who could play in a 4-4-2, but I'm really struggling to find a left back who comes into the category of these. Ben Mee played quite a bit at left back though so we'll go with him
Blacklaw
Angus Merrington Blant ??? (Ben Mee?)

Harris O'Neill Miller Elliot

Lochead Hankin

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Stockbrokerbelt » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:39 pm

Ray Hankin & lets not forget John Pender & Duff.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by djemba-djemba » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:24 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:00 pm
On the subject of which one of the four told me, it would be unfair to say to be honest but you might just find him on the picture below.

Image
Was going to say. Definitely Mick Docherty that told you that.
Remember Frank Casper being the pre-match speaker about 15 years back Mick was also there.
Frank was telling the story of the Norman Hunter tackle and said that he's only ever bumped into him twice since that tackle. On one of the occasions he asked Norman why he did it. Norman's response was "That's just how we were told to play Frank".
I spoke to Mick afterwards and asked him if they were scared going onto the pitch with sides like that who were told to play in such a way and ended careers. He said "No, we were all at it. I was as bad as anybody. You just had to get them before they got you".

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:26 pm

djemba-djemba wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:24 pm
Was going to say. Definitely Mick Docherty that told you that.
Remember Frank Casper being the pre-match speaker about 15 years back Mick was also there.
Frank was telling the story of the Norman Hunter tackle and said that he's only ever bumped into him twice since that tackle. On one of the occasions he asked Norman why he did it. Norman's response was "That's just how we were told to play Frank".
I spoke to Mick afterwards and asked him if they were scared going onto the pitch with sides like that who were told to play in such a way and ended careers. He said "No, we were all at it. I was as bad as anybody. You just had to get them before they got you".
I haven't seen Doc in ages but it was Waldo who told me. He named three of the back four and Nulty as the likely lads. He also said Keith Newton didn't because he was so good he didn't need to. Top, top man is Waldo.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by djemba-djemba » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:29 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:26 pm
I haven't seen Doc in ages but it was Waldo who told me. He named three of the back four and Nulty as the likely lads. He also said Keith Newton didn't because he was so good he didn't need to. Top, top man is Waldo.
I didn't look at the photo closely enough!!!!!

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by djemba-djemba » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:33 pm

Was the Leeds game in 74 at Elland Road the same one that Paul Fletcher referenced in his book. The one where he said Leeds targeted every Burnley apart from Doug Collins because Jimmy Adamson spoke the referee before the match in front of Don Revie and said the Leeds players had been saying they were going to break Doug Collins' legs?

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by djemba-djemba » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:35 pm

Fletcher said every Burnley player came off the pitch battered and bruised from head to toe except Collins who didn't have a scratch on him.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Nonayforever » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:43 pm

I don't know about hard, but the centre half we sold to Southampton that Cotterill bought in as Captain was certainly dirty.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Claretlad » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:47 pm

Gordon Harris .Adam Blacklaw..Andy Lochhead...and Brian O'Neil ... who took no prisoners...

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:24 pm

no mention of Lenny Johnrose ??????????????!!!!!!!!
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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:36 pm

Claretlad wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:47 pm
Gordon Harris .Adam Blacklaw..Andy Lochhead...and Brian O'Neil ... who took no prisoners...
Imagine a midfield with O’Neil & Harris

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Aclaret » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:44 pm

Not sure how we class a goalkeeper as a hard man ?

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Elizabeth » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:49 pm

Anyone who dives at the feet of onrushing forwards with studs flying has to be either hard or mental

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:52 pm

Aclaret wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:44 pm
Not sure how we class a goalkeeper as a hard man ?
So you reckon this team is "hard" enough not to need a 'keeper?
Anyway, Adam Blacklaw was definitely a "hard" man, but as someone else posted / implied, you wouldn't have bet against Harry Thompson in a scrap.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Aclaret » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:54 pm

Elizabeth, all goalkeepers should dive at the feet of onrushing forwards so probably mental rather than hard.

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Tribesmen » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:34 pm

Bomber Harris and Joey Barton for me

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Re: All time Burnley " Hard men " XI ....

Post by Funkydrummer » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:37 pm

Take a look at Mick Docherty on 37 seconds v Coventry away in 1975/76 season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZHCyrPh1Bc

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