Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

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Woodleyclaret
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Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by Woodleyclaret » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:19 am

Andy Pilling ,Chairman of Fleetwood ,is raising the idea of going to a regionalisation of football leagues
He cites the nonsense of a Tuesday away game at Portsmouth or Gillingham as being an issue
In the 50s and early 60s we had Div 3 North and South with the reorganisation then into Div3 and Div 4
I have often questioned this long distance travel
In midweek.With computer databases its easy to put all these fixtures on on a Saturday
Sky is a different animal with a live game of Saints v Newcastle screened on a Monday
These Sky games rearranged to suit Sky and not supporters is ,I feel a price too high despite the money clubs get.
I enjoy Saturday games despite our 6 am start to home games.
Regionalising may work but where do you place the likes of Port Vale ,top of the South or bottom of the North league

FactualFrank
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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by FactualFrank » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:29 am

That would be going backwards, for me.

Using the computer algorithm to take distance into account would sound the more sensible option. Sky would just need to also be sensible. A computer programme could easily only have long distant fixtures on the weekend and keep Mondays for games involving clubs nearer to each other - not necessarily a derby game, as they'll attract more on the weekends, but clubs slightly further apart than that.

Foulthrow
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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by Foulthrow » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:06 am

I thought clubs requested long distance midweek games in many cases?

And haven’t some non league clubs argued for an east west split rather than north/south as they currently have?

Claretforever
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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by Claretforever » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:22 am

The trouble with regionalising the lower divisions is that you’d have to revamp the Conference too. Didn’t it used to be northern alliance and southern league?

Regarding long midweek fixtures it was what clubs wanted. They’re more likely to get bigger crowds against local clubs, especially on a weekend, so wanted those days reserved for games where they’d get more income.

Tricky Trevor
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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by Tricky Trevor » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:39 am

I’ve long thought that, because of the risk of postponements, clubs should play their distance matches at the beginning and end of the season and more local games over Winter.
Sounds daft in a mild Winter but would you want to travel down to Plymouth or Exeter and on arrival find out it’s off and you’ll have to do it all again?
The days of regionalisation have probably gone.

Blackrod
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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by Blackrod » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:55 am

Not sure it will do anything for popularity even though there would be more ‘local’ games. Just weakens the strength of the league system we have imo.

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by jrgbfc » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:04 am

I'd leave League 1 as it is, then maybe have a League 2 North and South, using the teams in the National League. There isn't much difference in standard between those two leagues now, the teams who get promoted never struggle. Would mean lower travelling costs and increased revenue through bigger crowds, more local derbys etc.

dsr
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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by dsr » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:08 am

Travelling costs aren't huge. The difference between the cost of hiring a coach for a day to travel 500 mile round trip isn't vastly different from the cost of hiring one for 200 miles. IT has been said in the past - I presume it's still true - that lower league teams that can't afford hotels prefer long distance matches to be midweek, because they can set off after a full night's sleep and still travel same day. They can sleep on the coach coming back.

Incidentally, the Northern Premier second division is split into north-west and south-east. Novel, but common sense.

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by conyoviejo » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:14 am

If you are going to do that why not regionalise the Premier league,we could have a Northern Premier league and Southern softees Premier league ,with the top four of each going into. Play off.. the championship could be split between the premier league north and south..

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by houseboy » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:29 am

Regionalisation always had one major flaw I think (as non-league still has to a degree), and that is there is no control over relegation and promotion, meaning that you can wind up with the ridiculous situation were a northern club winds up in a southern league, or vice versa, which means for that club regionalisation is actually worse financially than national because there is no mix, every game (or most) is a long journey. And there doesn't seem to be a way around the problem. It comes about when the two promoted teams, one from each region, get promoted but the teams relegated are from the same region, one has to go into the 'wrong' league.
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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by Claretforever » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:23 am

Aren’t certain teams moveable though, so could be bumped to the north or south to make way for other sides? So a team in the midlands could be in the north one season but the south the next?

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by Tricky Trevor » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:04 am

houseboy wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:29 am
Regionalisation always had one major flaw I think (as non-league still has to a degree), and that is there is no control over relegation and promotion, meaning that you can wind up with the ridiculous situation were a northern club winds up in a southern league, or vice versa.
You only have to look at the National League North to see this anomaly.
Hereford, Kidderminster, Kings Lynn, Gloucester, etc.,
E699002C-1260-480C-93E9-B1BFEE934925.jpeg
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Enty1974
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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by Enty1974 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:08 am

You look.forward.to different towns no matter how far

Hes talkin shite

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:22 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:19 am
Andy Pilling ,Chairman of Fleetwood ,is raising the idea of going to a regionalisation of football leagues
He cites the nonsense of a Tuesday away game at Portsmouth or Gillingham as being an issue
In the 50s and early 60s we had Div 3 North and South with the reorganisation then into Div3 and Div 4
I have often questioned this long distance travel
In midweek.With computer databases its easy to put all these fixtures on on a Saturday
Sky is a different animal with a live game of Saints v Newcastle screened on a Monday
These Sky games rearranged to suit Sky and not supporters is ,I feel a price too high despite the money clubs get.
I enjoy Saturday games despite our 6 am start to home games.
Regionalising may work but where do you place the likes of Port Vale ,top of the South or bottom of the North league
It's Andy Pilley by the way and he might cite the nonsense of a Tuesday game at Portsmouth or Gillingham but a lot of lower division clubs prefer the midweek games to be long distance. I know Burnley were in favour of them a few years ago and to use a couple of examples, we travelled to Ipswich midweek in both 2002/03 and 2003/04. Burnley FC preferred that because there were no overnight expenses, there and back on the day. Had we played those games on a Saturday afternoon we would have had to travel down on the Friday.

Those long midweek games never suit supporters but don't be fooled into believing the clubs give a damn about it.

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:23 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:04 am
You only have to look at the National League North to see this anomaly.
Hereford, Kidderminster, Kings Lynn, Gloucester, etc.,
Was it Walsall who used to jump from Division 3 North to Division 3 South on a regular basis dependent on who was going up and down to and from Division 2?

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by Tricky Trevor » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:33 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:23 am
Was it Walsall who used to jump from Division 3 North to Division 3 South on a regular basis dependent on who was going up and down to and from Division 2?
Sorry CT. just too young to remember but it happens too often at the levels mentioned above, for midlands teams. Has the benefit, for fans, of seeing different teams regularly but I would have thought it frustrating for a manager, having to assess opponents from scratch each year.

The major problem over recent years has been the financial clout of the Southern non-league clubs. This is why so many of them are in that Northern league. It would have been good to get Barrow back in Div2 but unlikely now.

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:38 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:33 am
Sorry CT. just too young to remember but it happens too often at the levels mentioned above, for midlands teams. Has the benefit, for fans, of seeing different teams regularly but I would have thought it frustrating for a manager, having to assess opponents from scratch each year.
I can't remember the regionalised DIvision 3, was Divisions 3 & 4 when I started but I'm sure I read once that Walsall were the club who had to move from one to the other. It's logical that if anyone did it would be them given where Walsall is geographically.
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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by thatdberight » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:57 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:38 am
I can't remember the regionalised DIvision 3, was Divisions 3 & 4 when I started but I'm sure I read once that Walsall were the club who had to move from one to the other. It's logical that if anyone did it would be them given where Walsall is geographically.
Yes, Walsall were usually the team that changed (but not the only one obviously).

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:31 pm

We have this at Hockey, north west, north and then national leagues.

Works an absolute treat and means we only travel nationally when you get into the higher leagues.

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by Herts Clarets » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:44 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:22 am
I know Burnley were in favour of them a few years ago and to use a couple of examples, we travelled to Ipswich midweek in both 2002/03 and 2003/04. Burnley FC preferred that because there were no overnight expenses, there and back on the day. Had we played those games on a Saturday afternoon we would have had to travel down on the Friday.

Those long midweek games never suit supporters but don't be fooled into believing the clubs give a damn about it.
Was one of those the horror show when I had tickets in a box? I think I set a land speed record on the way back from that game on the A12. Took me an hour and 15 minutes to drop the first guy off in WGC - Touchline may have been his user name on the old board. Bedfords was with us too.

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:47 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:44 pm
Was one of those the horror show when I had tickets in a box? I think I set a land speed record on the way back from that game on the A12. Took me an hour and 15 minutes to drop the first guy off in WGC - Touchline may have been his user name on the old board. Bedfords was with us too.
That was the second of them, the 6-1 defeat. We'd drawn 2-2 in the previous season.

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by Petersa » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:59 pm

Swings and roundabouts with regionalisation. I had a friend years ago who was a big Walsall fan. Said his dad used to tell him that one year they were in the south and didn't play Shrewsbury or Port Vale but had to travel to Torquay, Exeter and Colchester then next year in the north and didn't play other Midlands teams but had to go to Hartlepool and Carlisle, all to "save on transport costs"

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Re: Is a regionalising of Div 1 and 2 the way forward

Post by timshorts » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:29 am

Petersa wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:59 pm
Swings and roundabouts with regionalisation. I had a friend years ago who was a big Walsall fan. Said his dad used to tell him that one year they were in the south and didn't play Shrewsbury or Port Vale but had to travel to Torquay, Exeter and Colchester then next year in the north and didn't play other Midlands teams but had to go to Hartlepool and Carlisle, all to "save on transport costs"
It also messes up your team at lower levels. Boston united had quite a few players based in Rotherham and Sheffield area that drove south for home games easily enough and didn't have to go too far for away games when they were in the northern Premier before conference 2 was invented. Then they moved to the southern Premier and the squad had to be changed. It matters more to semi pro's who have real jobs elsewhere.
The FA intervention seriously messes clubs up, and that can be severe now that they can ignore financial consequences for teams that move. Its probably OK to forcibly move them to step 3 level, but after that getting moved can result in a club going into liquidation as a result.

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