Will You Be Downloading the App?

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Steve1956
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Steve1956 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:24 am

IanMcL wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:44 am
PMQs should be interesting, again, today!

Bumble versus The Hornet!
Good to see you back Ian,bring Madge with ya...Tim Noone is trying to force an old slapper on us,its very disturbing.😤
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by martin_p » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:25 am

conyoviejo wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:23 am
Don't do it,the virus is being transmitted through the app ..
It’s ok, my phone isn’t 5G.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:27 am

Im waiting for Denise Welch to make a statement on Twitter about this before I make any rash decisions
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by claptrappers_union » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:32 am

My life-cycle at the moment, is home, office, sandwich shop, office then home again - thas pretty much it. I'm not mixing with many people at all.

I don't want to concern myself with infections in the area, I'm happy to socially distance myself and crack on without the risk of some 'app' telling me I can't work. I'm quite happy to 'stay safe' and keeping a polite wide berth with those around me.

I'm not considering downloading the app at the moment.
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Mala591 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:35 am

To use this new app - If you use a compact and lightweight smartphone (an old one) you will probably have to upgrade to a heavy modern one with a 6" screen which won't fit in your trouser pocket (i.e. a brick). Whatever happened to miniaturisation?

:-(

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by SingaporeClarets » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:49 am

Are workplaces in the UK mandating that you must have the app fully functioning before you can enter ?

Any plans for something similar to this for those who don't have smart phones or where battery life is a concern ?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54143015

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:50 am

fatboy47 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:15 am
Is it world class?
It's a game changer.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by jrgbfc » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:53 am

Don't think my smartphone is new enough, probably wouldn't download it anyway. The chances of it working properly are pretty slim if this government have had anything to do with it.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Fretters » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:56 am

claretburns wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:08 am
Got it downloaded this morning and if you fancy visiting a pub or restaurant over the next 6 months you will need the app to scan the QR code at the pub/restaurant entrance to enter your details.
This is genius - such a good idea.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by jrgbfc » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:26 pm

Don't think it's true that you'll need it to get in a pub or restaurant. You'll still be able to leave your details by filling out a form.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by wilks_bfc » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:29 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:26 pm
Don't think it's true that you'll need it to get in a pub or restaurant. You'll still be able to leave your details by filling out a form.
They want everywhere to be using them.

The club I coach at have even got the codes to scan for the park where we train/play our games

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by criminalclaret » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:49 pm

So I am a software developer and can tell you that there is nothing "fishy" or "data-collecting" about this app other than what you voluntarily submit (symptoms check in, etc). In fact for all your lot who are worried about it - here is the source code for both the backend, iOS app and Android app if you want to take a look https://github.com/nhsx. All publicly available for scrutiny and can even be compiled and installed manually if you so wished (with a bit of know how)

The reason this app has taken so long is that in the initial one, the government wanted to make something from scratch and the app could not take details of bluetooth id's when the phone was in sleep/background mode as per Apple / Google requirements. They then had to use the Bluetooth Exposure feature which Apple / Google released for their system which can only use anonymous decentralised data. This is the same with every Covid exposure app out there at this moment in time released by other countries. The Irish app is near identical to the NHS one and thats been out for 3 months. Germany uses the same architecture and that have been out even longer. They all rely on Google / Apple services to do the anonymous check, the government are only allowed reporting stats back from Google / Apple in terms of the tracing element.

From a tech point of view, what Apple and Google jointly came up with in such a short space of time is yet another example of how you can put great minds together to come up with and roll out a life saving solution in a short space of time. This would have probably taken years of tedious back and forth, yet a solution was able to be conceptualised, created, implemented and released in months. Just like the vaccine developments, it shows what we as humans can do when are being pushed to our limits.

So it's completely down yourself if you want to install it or not. Thats your choice. But at least have the sense to take opinions from people who know what they are talking about rather than reading it on a FB/twitter/next-door-neighbours-dog-walker. As pointed out, if you are on those social media platforms already then there should be no worry about the data you are submitting.

This might not save your life, but it will provide valuable evidence and insights into the trends of covid and potentially prevent another spread in your area. And for something thats installed once and sat in your pocket thats a pretty easy and helpful thing to be contributing to the fight of this thing.

EDIT: Spelling and grammar.
Last edited by criminalclaret on Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Eloise Laws
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Eloise Laws » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:00 pm

My iPhone 6s Plus not compatible apparently.....
Will you Siddo?

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by karatekid » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:08 pm

I’ve got it and it’s harmless ;)

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Zlatan » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:28 pm

Eloise Laws wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:00 pm
My iPhone 6s Plus not compatible apparently.....
Will you Siddo?
6S should be fine, anything prior to that will not run it. As a percentage of all currently running versions of iOS 80% are able to run it, only 20% are older models that wont run it.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:39 pm

criminalclaret wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:49 pm
So I am a software developer and can tell you that there is nothing "fishy" or "data-collecting" about this app other than what you voluntarily submit to (symptoms check in, etc). In fact for all your lot who are worried about it - here is the source code for both the backend, iOS app and Android app if you want to take a look https://github.com/nhsx. All publicly available for scrutiny and can even be compiled and installed manually if you so wished (with a bit of know how)

The reason this app has taken so long is that in the initial one, the government wanted to make something from scratch and the app could not take details of bluetooth id's when the phone was in sleep/background mode as per Apple / Google requirements. They then had to use the Bluetooth Exposure feature which Apple / Google released for their system which can only use anonymous decentralised data. This is the same with every Covid exposure app out there at this moment in time released by countries. The Irish app is near identical to the NHS one and thats been out for 3 months. Germany uses the same architecture and that have been out even longer. They all rely on Google / Apple services to do the anonymous check, the government are only allowed reporting stats back from Google / Apple in terms of the tracing element.

From a tech point of view, what Apple and Google jointly came up with in such a short space of time is yet another example of how you can put great minds together to come up with and roll out a life saving solution quickly. This would have probably taken years of tedious back and forth before, and a solution was managed to be created, implemented and released in months. Just like the vaccine developments, it shows what we as humans can do when it really comes down to being pushed to our limits.

So it's completely down yourself if you want to install it or not. Thats your choice. But at least have the sense to take opinions from people who know what they are talking about rather than reading it on a FB/twitter/next-door-neighbours-dog-walker. As pointed out, if you are on those social media platforms already then there should be no worry about the data you are submitting.

This might not save your life, but it will provide value evidence and insights into the trends of covid and potentially prevent another spread in that area. And for something thats installed once and sat in your pocket thats a pretty easy and helpful thing to be contributing to the fight of this thing.
Good post, even if it was from a 'criminalclaret'.

criminalclaret
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by criminalclaret » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:11 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:39 pm
Good post, even if it was from a 'criminalclaret'.
Yeah if you want any further information just email me your the last 4 digits of your credit card and your mothers maiden name and I'll get back to you quickly ;)

Everyone is certainly right to question this government, particularly after the Bernard Castle-gate, misinformation, confusing policy changes etc.

But it's also important to point out that the exposure and notification system they are using for this app is exactly the same as what other countries are using and has been tested by security experts and engineers alike over the last 5 months.

I don't know too much about this additional check-in / show to establishment QR code which someone mentioned earlier, but again this isn't part of the core functionality and is just there for convenience as part of the app. You can easily just write it down on a piece of paper at the establishment which is what I have done everywhere. Same with the symptoms checkin, you don't have to do this everyday (or at all).

As long as you have installed and have logged in once, it can send the random bluetooth id's automatically and allow you and others to be notified if there is a confirmed case that you may have been exposed to.

Having it sit there in your pocket is good enough for it to be having a positive impact.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Mala591 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:17 pm

Seems a bit of a pointless app if 20% of phones in use won't run it. Surely the specification should be (have been) for 100% of UK smartphones in use to run it.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:21 pm

Just listened on Talkradio. They had a guest from Germany on who has done a study of the equivalent German app, which , according to her is very similar.

She said that any privacy concerns that there were with the old app have been addressed. Interestingly, she said that it was estimated that if only 10% of the population adopt the app, you should expect to see an 8% drop in cases.

She was of the opinion that anything that helps has to be positive.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:30 pm

downloaded, no personal details needed.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Dyched » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:42 pm

I don’t even understand the argument people have about privacy. You know the types moaning will be the ones posting on twitter about, whilst having a chat with Alexa and checking in on facebook.

But on a serious note, 99.9% of those that get it will have Facebook on their phones whilst being constantly signed in.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by criminalclaret » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:55 pm

Mala591 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:17 pm
Seems a bit of a pointless app if 20% of phones in use won't run it. Surely the specification should be (have been) for 100% of UK smartphones in use to run it.
Does work like that I'm afraid - and more than likely it won't be the government deciding this but version restrictive.

Apple and Google have both had to make changes to their core operating system (iOS and Android) to allow the exposure settings to work. Due to a myriad of devices available and released in systems, they will only be able to go back so far into the past to allow this to happen.

Every big version update for iOS / Android mobile phones will make core changes, so you start implementing a solution to work with the newest software and work backwards. Anything after a certain which they deem unable to work consistently, they will call that their cut off point. So in this case, iPhone 6 is 5 years old, and the usage of that phone from that era will be low enough and the work to go into trying to make it work for that device will be diminishing returns. At that point, you'd rather have a team of smart people working to improve what they have for the majority of users than focusing on improving the small amount of users using outdate phones.

And also to state, they had 2/3 months to make, test and deploy this feature globally. It is an incredibly impressive feat.

I'd suggest if you are one of those with an outdated device either:

a) treat yourself to a new phone
b) go to a supermarket and buy a cheap new android phone and install it there.

I'd go with the first option.
Last edited by criminalclaret on Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:59 pm

Downloaded, no need for any personal data, just the first part of the postcode I live in.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by 1968claret » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:13 pm

downloaded this morning. dont see all the fuss tbh. if it only helps a bit surely it is worth it. Same with masks. Dont see why people create a fuss. Surely every little thing we do to tray and help save a few lives is worth it?

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by aclaretinstevenage » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:55 pm

We now need It for entry to our Clubhouse at the golf club, so downloaded the app simply today, no data required except first part of postcode. Don't see anything sinister here.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by pureclaret » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:26 pm

for criminalclaret my mothers maiden name full card number and dob alongside the 6 numbers of my pass code are below so you can help me .

But until then had already decided to down load it as for me if the powers that be want to spy on me they can do it without any additional help of this app. I have been to macdonalds used the app and it took seconds to comply with there need to register. A lady who did not wish to use her business phone had to do it on a cleaned tablet took her less than 2mins to do it as against the second for me. feel that if this is used for all businesses/ bars etc then any que will be small if you have the app as against manual registering.
For the people who dont want to do this, best bet is stay at home .

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by aggi » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:28 pm

I'm quite surprised that the Government hasn't spent part of its budget on making sure that this app is front and centre on the App stores for UK residents.

I ended up searching for NHS which brings up the wrong app and then finding another (not by the NHS) which is probably the right one but all of the reviews refer to the IoW implementation which was the old app.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Billy Balfour » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:43 pm

People would download it soon enough if they got a £5.00 shopping voucher from Lidl.
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Bainsyclaret » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:54 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 6:24 pm
Threatening death on someone you don't like real classy Eddie. :roll:
It was obviously a joke/ play on words not a threat

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Bainsyclaret » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:57 pm

I have deep reservations about this app but am already finding a few places - my gym. staff canteen and local pub insisting on you using it and its more time consuming in terms of queues and information you need to provide if you don't have it.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by martin_p » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:18 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:28 pm
I'm quite surprised that the Government hasn't spent part of its budget on making sure that this app is front and centre on the App stores for UK residents.

I ended up searching for NHS which brings up the wrong app and then finding another (not by the NHS) which is probably the right one but all of the reviews refer to the IoW implementation which was the old app.
It’s top of the home page on the Apple App Store at the moment to be fair.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Longsidebogs » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:36 pm

Yep. Already done.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by aggi » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:48 pm

martin_p wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:18 pm
It’s top of the home page on the Apple App Store at the moment to be fair.
Fair enough. This was Android where it wasn't obvious.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:31 am

I have read a comment from the NHS Covid App team that "If your test took place in a Public Health England lab or NHS hospital, or as part of national surveillance testing conducted by the Office for National Statistics, test results cannot currently be linked with the app whether they’re positive or negative."

You have to wonder how good this app is and how much crap will come to light over the coming weeks and months but hopefully this will be the exception and not the rule

As for the govts constant spin about this being an NHS app I did like the below forthright take on the matter

"So you have a test by NHS staff in an NHS hospital and yet it won't be linked to the App, HOW DARE they call the app the "NHS Covid19 App". It is clearly run by a private firm for profit, procured by the UK Govt, funded by the UK taxpayer. NOT run by the NHS at all."

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Grumps » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:35 am

If you use the app to sign in somewhere via the code scanning, how does it know when you leave? And therefore how does it know if you were there when someone who tested positive was. Does everyone who scanned in that day get a warning?

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Whitgord » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:36 am

As I understand it, all the app does is let you know if you have been close to someone infected for a specific length of time (15 mins??). There is no “linking” of test results to the app. If you get a positive test, by any method, you have to let the app know. The app also allows you to input your symptoms and book a test in the first place. Am I correct?

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Whitgord » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:37 am

Just checked and it appears that if you book the test via the app then the result is loaded to the app automatically.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by martin_p » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:48 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:31 am
I have read a comment from the NHS Covid App team that "If your test took place in a Public Health England lab or NHS hospital, or as part of national surveillance testing conducted by the Office for National Statistics, test results cannot currently be linked with the app whether they’re positive or negative."

You have to wonder how good this app is and how much crap will come to light over the coming weeks and months but hopefully this will be the exception and not the rule

As for the govts constant spin about this being an NHS app I did like the below forthright take on the matter

"So you have a test by NHS staff in an NHS hospital and yet it won't be linked to the App, HOW DARE they call the app the "NHS Covid19 App". It is clearly run by a private firm for profit, procured by the UK Govt, funded by the UK taxpayer. NOT run by the NHS at all."
To be fair I think that’s to stop people just posting in random test results which people might do if they wanted to maliciously make people self isolate. On the ‘enter your test results’ screen you are asked to enter the code you received when you got the results (via SMS or email). Presumably when the results are delivered face to face they don’t issue a code so you can’t enter the results. It needs codes to be generated for those results so they can be entered in the app.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:56 am

One thing regarding this - bluetooth drains the battery, and I won't be alone in hardly ever turning it on.

So lots of people may have it on their phone, but it won't be able to do it's job.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Zlatan » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:11 am

FactualFrank wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:56 am
One thing regarding this - bluetooth drains the battery, and I won't be alone in hardly ever turning it on.

So lots of people may have it on their phone, but it won't be able to do it's job.
Just checked my battery usage for the Exposure Notifications app and it’s less than 2% average over the past few days. The drain is minimal to be honest. I used more battery checking Twitter for 15 minutes about Tarkowski

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:20 am

Zlatan wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:11 am
Just checked my battery usage for the Exposure Notifications app and it’s less than 2% average over the past few days. The drain is minimal to be honest. I used more battery checking Twitter for 15 minutes about Tarkowski
I was half expecting the app to be able to turn bluetooth on automatically, if given permission. That way, you wouldn't need to consciously turn it on. Leaving it on all the time can be a security issue, especially on older devices.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Zlatan » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:25 am

FactualFrank wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:20 am
I was half expecting the app to be able to turn bluetooth on automatically, if given permission. That way, you wouldn't need to consciously turn it on. Leaving it on all the time can be a security issue, especially on older devices.
That’s why it’s restricted to “newer” phones (as in 80% of iOS in the wild...) because it utilises Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) which is kind of what you suggest

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Mala591 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:32 am

It would be useful if the app could identify the id of the phone which is being carried by a positive covid person. Police could then be informed and investigate why they are 'out and about' in the pub/supermarket etc.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Zlatan » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:36 am

Mala591 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:32 am
It would be useful if the app could identify the id of the phone which is being carried by a positive covid person. Police could then be informed and investigate why they are 'out and about' in the pub/supermarket etc.
That’s the Orwellian scope the government wanted included but was rightly stopped

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Mala591 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:41 am

If someone is 'out and about' carrying and spreading a potentially lethal infection then the police should be involved (imo).

Devils_Advocate
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:54 am

martin_p wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:48 am
To be fair I think that’s to stop people just posting in random test results which people might do if they wanted to maliciously make people self isolate. On the ‘enter your test results’ screen you are asked to enter the code you received when you got the results (via SMS or email). Presumably when the results are delivered face to face they don’t issue a code so you can’t enter the results. It needs codes to be generated for those results so they can be entered in the app.
Yes but thats the point they are only giving you a code it you have one of the privately outsourced tests of which we are paying the Tories pals for. If you have at test via the NHS they are unable to give you a code with the results to enter in to the App. Its almost like its been built with the priority of the private companies making some money over an App that really helps us get on top of Covid
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Mala591
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Mala591 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:17 am

Requires android 6.0 and above.

Bosscat
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Bosscat » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:51 am

big-brother-is-watching-you.jpg
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FactualFrank
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:52 pm

Mala591 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:32 am
It would be useful if the app could identify the id of the phone which is being carried by a positive covid person. Police could then be informed and investigate why they are 'out and about' in the pub/supermarket etc.
You'd just get people who are positive, leaving their phone at home.

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Bosscat » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:12 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:52 pm
You'd just get people who are positive, leaving their phone at home.
Not everyone has a smartphone anyway !!!

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