Will You Be Downloading the App?

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criminalclaret
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by criminalclaret » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:58 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:56 am
One thing regarding this - bluetooth drains the battery, and I won't be alone in hardly ever turning it on.

So lots of people may have it on their phone, but it won't be able to do it's job.
Then ther s literally no point in you having it to you aren't going to turn it on.

Are people really concerned about 2/3% of battery drain Vs provide analytics and insights ( as well as potentially helping saving lives)?

criminalclaret
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by criminalclaret » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:13 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:31 am
I have read a comment from the NHS Covid App team that "If your test took place in a Public Health England lab or NHS hospital, or as part of national surveillance testing conducted by the Office for National Statistics, test results cannot currently be linked with the app whether they’re positive or negative."

You have to wonder how good this app is and how much crap will come to light over the coming weeks and months but hopefully this will be the exception and not the rule

As for the govts constant spin about this being an NHS app I did like the below forthright take on the matter

"So you have a test by NHS staff in an NHS hospital and yet it won't be linked to the App, HOW DARE they call the app the "NHS Covid19 App". It is clearly run by a private firm for profit, procured by the UK Govt, funded by the UK taxpayer. NOT run by the NHS at all."
I think this is the combination of several different things amalgamated into one and is part of what I mentioned earlier about people just listening to hearsey.

So if you have a retrospective result ( more than a month) then that would completely make sense that it can't be included. The random keys which are generated are only valid for 28 days so therefore if you were found positive in say 25th August, they won't be inputting your result into the system as they exposure check won't work. You keys wont exist. It will only be useful if you have had the app working for a while and get a result whilst you have been using the app. So basically from now onwards.

As far I'm aware, there are certain healthcare providers (and yes the NHS is obviously one of them) can submit the patient keys to notify the global exposure system of that. That code is probably as was said, whereby in some cases a private company was used and so as a verifying process they ask the patient to submit the result (the code identifies the test result stored and allows it to be submitted). This is obviously to stop any old Tom Dick and Harry just submitting fraudulent results.

I think we live in a world where if it's not perfect it's useless. When developing something like his it's an iterative process, if there is a bug (battery drain etc) report it. Let developers know what is wrong so we can fix it. And updates happen very quickly, so if there is a battery drain issue today doesn't mean it will exist in 3 days time.

Again everyone can do what they want, but the core technology behind his has been tried and tested in other countries for many months, and the exposure system has to work with the strict Apple Google guidelines.

I don't work for the government / NHS / healthcare provider. I'm a software engineer who have been following the all of the development of this system over many months. I think this app (or any which uses the exposure system) is an important as a mask and washing hands in combating this disease. The more analytics we can provide the better, and this is the one of the easiest way.

FactualFrank
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:22 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:12 pm
Not everyone has a smartphone anyway !!!
Stop hinting that you want me to buy you one for Christmas.
This user liked this post: Wokingclaret

Devils_Advocate
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:37 pm

criminalclaret wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:13 pm
I think this is the combination of several different things amalgamated into one and is part of what I mentioned earlier about people just listening to hearsey.

So if you have a retrospective result ( more than a month) then that would completely make sense that it can't be included. The random keys which are generated are only valid for 28 days so therefore if you were found positive in say 25th August, they won't be inputting your result into the system as they exposure check won't work. You keys wont exist. It will only be useful if you have had the app working for a while and get a result whilst you have been using the app. So basically from now onwards.

As far I'm aware, there are certain healthcare providers (and yes the NHS is obviously one of them) can submit the patient keys to notify the global exposure system of that. That code is probably as was said, whereby in some cases a private company was used and so as a verifying process they ask the patient to submit the result (the code identifies the test result stored and allows it to be submitted). This is obviously to stop any old Tom Dick and Harry just submitting fraudulent results.

I think we live in a world where if it's not perfect it's useless. When developing something like his it's an iterative process, if there is a bug (battery drain etc) report it. Let developers know what is wrong so we can fix it. And updates happen very quickly, so if there is a battery drain issue today doesn't mean it will exist in 3 days time.

Again everyone can do what they want, but the core technology behind his has been tried and tested in other countries for many months, and the exposure system has to work with the strict Apple Google guidelines.

I don't work for the government / NHS / healthcare provider. I'm a software engineer who have been following the all of the development of this system over many months. I think this app (or any which uses the exposure system) is an important as a mask and washing hands in combating this disease. The more analytics we can provide the better, and this is the one of the easiest way.
I havent been listening to heresay as I havent discussed this everyone - I just pay attention to the news. It came to light yesterday that there is a worrying gap that if you do not book your test via the app and your test is carried out by the NHS or PHE you cannot submit your results even if positive (and this is nothing to do with it being retrospective)

https://faq.covid19.nhs.uk/article/KA-01307/en-us

"If your test took place in a Public Health England lab or NHS hospital, or as part of national surveillance testing conducted by the Office for National Statistics, test results cannot currently be linked with the app whether they’re positive or negative. We are working to make this available as soon as possible."

Im sure they are working to fix this but when the Prime Minister absolutely labours the point that this is an NHS app to the point he uses the NHS to shield himself from criticism then this news quite clearly shows this is a private venture with the NHS and PHE at the bottom of the list.

Im sorry but this is just more cronyism at work and in the social and financial crisis we are in we need leaders who put the people first, not themselves and their rich chums

Bosscat
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Bosscat » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:38 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:22 pm
Stop hinting that you want me to buy you one for Christmas.
Awwwe Frank gowaaaannn you know you want to 😁😁😁

morpheus2
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by morpheus2 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:41 pm

I'm downloading it just so as you paranoid leftie anti-vacs pot smoking hippies can see what it looks like........

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Devils_Advocate
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:49 pm

morpheus2 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:41 pm
I'm downloading it just so as you paranoid leftie anti-vacs pot smoking hippies can see what it looks like........
The anti vax Covid conspiracy idiots tend to more the Trump/Farage/Brexit loons than pot smoking hippies. You just have to check out the demo's in Trafalgar Sq and US Trump territory to see that

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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by morpheus2 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:53 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:49 pm
The anti vax Covid conspiracy idiots tend to more the Trump/Farage/Brexit loons than pot smoking hippies. You just have to check out the demo's in Trafalgar Sq and US Trump territory to see that
Shud up ya hippie!

Devils_Advocate
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:56 pm

morpheus2 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:53 pm
Shud up ya hippie!
Thats about the nicest thing anyones ever said to me on here 😍
These 3 users liked this post: morpheus2 tim_noone longsidepies

ClaretAndJew
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by ClaretAndJew » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:57 pm

Be genuinely interesting to see the correlation between being a lockdown protester and a Brexit/Tory voter.

Jakubclaret
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:57 pm

I've received a text & downloaded the app, I fail to see how it can help me I've just gone along with it.

criminalclaret
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by criminalclaret » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:03 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:37 pm

Im sure they are working to fix this but when the Prime Minister absolutely labours the point that this is an NHS app to the point he uses the NHS to shield himself from criticism then this news quite clearly shows this is a private venture with the NHS and PHE at the bottom of the list.

Im sorry but this is just more cronyism at work and in the social and financial crisis we are in we need leaders who put the people first, not themselves and their rich chums
Your opinions on policy decisions are certainly valid and this govt has certainly made it hard for people to take them seriously.

I can only talk from a tech and science point of view from the app and how long term it's important to have it. This is such a new disease data on it is constantly changing. The exposure notification system is one way of tracking these over time and building up solid analytics. That can only work if people use it. Again, even if it's just sat in your pocket never used, that's good enough.

It's something small that prevent others from succombing to this disease (and ideally providing analytics for better policy making) then that can only be a good thing.

No solution will be a panacea in this fight, it's small increments.

Bosscat
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Bosscat » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:09 pm

criminalclaret wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:03 pm
Your opinions on policy decisions are certainly valid and this govt has certainly made it hard for people to take them seriously.

I can only talk from a tech and science point of view from the app and how long term it's important to have it. This is such a new disease data on it is constantly changing. The exposure notification system is one way of tracking these over time and building up solid analytics. That can only work if people use it. Again, even if it's just sat in your pocket never used, that's good enough.

It's something small that prevent others from succombing to this disease (and ideally providing analytics for better policy making) then that can only be a good thing.

No solution will be a panacea in this fight, it's small increments.
If I was a criminalclaret I wouldn't be downloading an app 🤔🤔🤔

Devils_Advocate
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:13 pm

criminalclaret wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:03 pm
Your opinions on policy decisions are certainly valid and this govt has certainly made it hard for people to take them seriously.

I can only talk from a tech and science point of view from the app and how long term it's important to have it. This is such a new disease data on it is constantly changing. The exposure notification system is one way of tracking these over time and building up solid analytics. That can only work if people use it. Again, even if it's just sat in your pocket never used, that's good enough.

It's something small that prevent others from succombing to this disease (and ideally providing analytics for better policy making) then that can only be a good thing.

No solution will be a panacea in this fight, it's small increments.
Thats a much fairer response which I can agree with. I welcomed your post on the tech and data stuff and unlike with the first Cummings app I have not been critical at all on the data and privacy aspect.

It feels like we are on the right track with this app and I am not far off ready to sign up to it myself but this govt cant be trusted and the only way we will spot the faults and problems quick and get them resolved if people push back when things are wrong and if people with the right expertise (like you seem to be with the data side) really scrutinise it and put it through its paces

I really hope in the next few weeks this app takes off in a positive way and really helps us get on top of this virus

criminalclaret
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by criminalclaret » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:25 pm

The public see it as "the boy who cried wolf" in terms of the first app failing. The government tried to re-invent the wheel then and failed.

Now they are doing what they should have done all along and used a programme which other countries have fully gotten behind from its inception. That's why I'm try to debunk some of these concerns.

Not only using this exposure system to warn people, we also need data to be able to spot patterns and provide insights.

There's 5 months worth of data generated using the Google Apple exposure system but these were mainly from countries which were coming out of the first wave. Now we are entering the second wave, we have something to be able to view trends and escalation patterns so see how and where this spreads.

This information is vitally important. Who knows how many more waves there will be until we have an immunised society.

AndrewJB
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:19 am

Like any good citizen I downloaded and use the app. My area was one of the earlier practice ones, so it was downloaded about a month ago.

It’s strange to call it “NHS” when it’s not run by the NHS. And the back end of tracking and tracing is being done very badly, and has cost the country a fortune. I hope that is something the future enquiry will look into.

Mala591
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Re: Will You Be Downloading the App?

Post by Mala591 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:37 am

If you are wearing a mask and the Covid infected person is wearing a mask then transmission of the virus seems unlikely. Many people will be advised to 'lock themselves down' for two weeks without any real scientific evidence.

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