Keir Starmer the future

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Cubanclaret
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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Cubanclaret » Fri May 08, 2020 9:50 am

To answer the original point, he has been excellent at PMQs - no doubt - a million miles better than Corbyn. As for the point that no one watches PMQs - well, what happens there permeates the rest of the media pretty quickly.
But the crucial thing is the slow but steady exposure of Johnson the charlatan. It’a a bit like Loris Karius keeping goal for Liverpool in the CL final. Eventually you get found out.
His bristling at 4 well -prepared questions was palpable. Of course it’s an awful situation and he’s been poorly but I fear Johnson’s pet dog persona will struggle to overcome the harsh realities of what lies ahead. I think he’s out of his depth. Corbyn didn’t have the dexterity to seize upon this, Starmer does. Agree that the bigger issue Starmer faces is a root and branch reform of the Labour Party - he can’t do that with personnel but can with some
Pragmatic ideology and policy-making. The really interesting thing is the tories are now forced into a position of nationalising rail services and implementing socialist fiscal policies. Who’d have thought that at the time of the new year? In Manchester, hundreds of homeless people are being put up in unoccupied hotels.
It’s quite heart warming what we CAN do when there’s a need.
Back to Starmer - I think he’s supported some of the government response in a very sincere manner. I do hope the current situation brings about a bit of a change in the mindless bipartisan nonsense UK politics has become. After all, much more progressive politics can prosper as they do in a number of European countries who all seem to be managing this situation better than we are.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Stayingup » Fri May 08, 2020 10:11 am

No doubt that Keir Starmer is an articulate man. He should be he's a human rights Lawyer. However, It is so much easier to ccomment critically when you are actually doing nothing, although Corbyn couldn't manage it against the limp May. As for Johnson this virus crisis came out of the blue really and lets be fair hes been ill himself with it so that knocked him and his roookie government back. I dont believe that Starmer will ever completelywin the support of the traditional Labour voters outseide of metro areas and some of the posters on here. In fact I can't think of a Labour candidate that would. they are that obsessed with matters like transgender and Climate Change. Most of the public are aware of all these issues but they are not major issues to most of them.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by TVC15 » Fri May 08, 2020 10:43 am

Stayingup wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:11 am
In fact I can't think of a Labour candidate that would. they are that obsessed with matters like transgender and Climate Change. Most of the public are aware of all these issues but they are not major issues to most of them.
Why would anybody take anything you say seriously when you post utter sh-ite like this ?!!

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by nil_desperandum » Fri May 08, 2020 10:57 am

Stayingup wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:11 am
In fact I can't think of a Labour candidate that would. they are that obsessed with matters like transgender and Climate Change. Most of the public are aware of all these issues but they are not major issues to most of them.
So most of the public aren't concerned by climate change - right.
On the other hand if you're right, then it's even more important that politicians of all parties put Climate change near the top of their priorities.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Stayingup » Fri May 08, 2020 11:48 am

Cirrus_Minor wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 9:18 pm
Let's see how he looks after the Mail, Sun, Express, union Jack wavers, pro Israeli lobby and FaceBook red necks have about him.


Take it you dont wave a Union Jack then. What nationality are you?

Did you realize incidentally that Israel is a civilization in the midst of chaos. They are also the country who is closest to finding a cancer cure. Leave them alone and don't be racist.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Stayingup » Fri May 08, 2020 11:51 am

nil_desperandum wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:57 am
So most of the public aren't concerned by climate change - right.
On the other hand if you're right, then it's even more important that politicians of all parties put Climate change near the top of their priorities.
Obviously I dont know what circles you mix in but I can tell you in my circle the priorities of people are a steady job bringing in enough maoney to sustain a decent standard of living and fighting burgeoning crime.

I've thought for a while that minority groups shout the loudest.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Stayingup » Fri May 08, 2020 11:53 am

TVC15 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:43 am
Why would anybody take anything you say seriously when you post utter sh-ite like this ?!!
You read it sunshine and its sn opinion. Something that you would not be allowed to express in your Comunist Utopia. I just love your counter argument. Try saying something sensible.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Volvoclaret » Fri May 08, 2020 11:58 am

Dailymash

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by TVC15 » Fri May 08, 2020 11:59 am

Stayingup wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:53 am
You read it sunshine and its sn opinion. Something that you would not be allowed to express in your Comunist Utopia. I just love your counter argument. Try saying something sensible.
Aye - because your articulate eloquent posts make so much sense.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Stayingup » Fri May 08, 2020 12:03 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:57 am
So most of the public aren't concerned by climate change - right.
On the other hand if you're right, then it's even more important that politicians of all parties put Climate change near the top of their priorities.
By the way Nil - D I am very much on the front foot on Climate Change, particularly when it comes to plastic, which I would love to see banned as its disgusting what it has done to our planet, being in the food chain water etc. But there has to be a balance in life between economics and the environment. I should say also that I respect your views on these matters.
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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Stayingup » Fri May 08, 2020 12:07 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:59 am
Aye - because your articulate eloquent posts make so much sense.
If you were able to digest what is written and comment sensibly and put forward your view then I would have some respect. As it stands sorry but why are you commenting? You've nothing to offer it seems.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by TVC15 » Fri May 08, 2020 12:30 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 12:07 pm
If you were able to digest what is written and comment sensibly and put forward your view then I would have some respect. As it stands sorry but why are you commenting? You've nothing to offer it seems.
Why the f-uck would I want to get into a debate with someone who thinks that just because people do not share your bigoted right wing views that they are a Communist - especially when that bigot can’t even spell the word ?

As for why am I commenting ?
Simple - to call out pric-ks like you.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by nil_desperandum » Fri May 08, 2020 12:41 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 12:03 pm
By the way Nil - D I am very much on the front foot on Climate Change, particularly when it comes to plastic, which I would love to see banned as its disgusting what it has done to our planet, being in the food chain water etc. But there has to be a balance in life between economics and the environment. I should say also that I respect your views on these matters.
Ok That's a far more measured and responsible response to my previous post, and - contradicting your initial post - suggests that "most people are concerned" [to a greater or lesser extent] about Climate Change, (yourself included).

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by TVC15 » Fri May 08, 2020 12:43 pm

Yes a bit more measured than saying the Labour Party are a bunch of communists only interested in saving the planet and transgenders.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Stayingup » Fri May 08, 2020 1:35 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 12:43 pm
Yes a bit more measured than saying the Labour Party are a bunch of communists only interested in saving the planet and transgenders.
And there's me hoping for ywo sentences. Corbyn McDonnel are what? Communists you clown

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by TVC15 » Fri May 08, 2020 1:38 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:35 pm
And there's me hoping for ywo sentences. Corbyn McDonnel are what? Communists you clown
Wow - absolutely thick as mince.
New levels of belmtardry...even for you.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Stayingup » Fri May 08, 2020 1:44 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 12:41 pm
Ok That's a far more measured and responsible response to my previous post, and - contradicting your initial post - suggests that "most people are concerned" [to a greater or lesser extent] about Climate Change, (yourself included).
I haven't contradicted my initial post at all. It seems you dont get that Climate change and other social issues pursued mainly by Labour women are less of a priority than feeding and clothing the family. You watch in the times of hardship that will follow this dreadful period issues previously on the political agenda will have far less relevance. For your information I am not a big fan of politicians of any hue and put together with a scientist out to prove his theory correct the result is usually a disaster.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Stayingup » Fri May 08, 2020 1:47 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:38 pm
Wow - absolutely thick as mince.
New levels of belmtardry...even for you.
Thick as mince. Oh how rich coming from you. Do you know what constructive conversation means?

Enough cant discuss with someone like you.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by TVC15 » Fri May 08, 2020 1:55 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:47 pm
Thick as mince. Oh how rich coming from you. Do you know what constructive conversation means?

Enough cant discuss with someone like you.
What’s constructive about calling the Labour Party “Comunists”, and that they are only interested in transgenders and climate change ?
And I see from your last post you are now saying this is the Labour “women”

Your lack of self awareness about your bigotry is hilarious. You honestly think anyone wants a serious debate with a fu-ckwit like you ?

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by nil_desperandum » Fri May 08, 2020 2:22 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:44 pm
I haven't contradicted my initial post at all. It seems you dont get that Climate change and other social issues pursued mainly by Labour women are less of a priority than feeding and clothing the family. You watch in the times of hardship that will follow this dreadful period issues previously on the political agenda will have far less relevance. For your information I am not a big fan of politicians of any hue and put together with a scientist out to prove his theory correct the result is usually a disaster.
Oh dear. I try to find middle ground with you and this is your reply.
Lots to digest in your post, but 2 simple and hopefully easy to understand points:
1. I never said - nor I think has anyone - that feeding and clothing your family is not a basic essential or priority, but this does not mean that the majority of people don't also consider climate / green issues to be extremely important. The two issues are not mutually exclusive.
2. It really tells us everything that you refer to mainly "Labour WOMEN" (disparagingly) as though they are any more prominent and vociferous than all the leading scientists [predominantly male] (e.g.) Sir David Attenborough who are the leading the "crusade".

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri May 08, 2020 2:28 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:57 am
So most of the public aren't concerned by climate change - right.
On the other hand if you're right, then it's even more important that politicians of all parties put Climate change near the top of their priorities.
A good reason exists why the general public aren't concerned about climate change, there could prioritise climate change thus guaranteeing putting all the eggs in 1 basket, the electorate as a general rule are more interested in other key issues essential to everyday living, soundbites preaching to the populace will almost certainly & effectively bring about short shrift, not listening & acting will be demonstrably shown in the results of any election as we've seen & will continue to see.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by TheFamilyCat » Fri May 08, 2020 3:10 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 2:28 pm
A good reason exists why the general public aren't concerned about climate change, there could prioritise climate change thus guaranteeing putting all the eggs in 1 basket, the electorate as a general rule are more interested in other key issues essential to everyday living, soundbites preaching to the populace will almost certainly & effectively bring about short shrift, not listening & acting will be demonstrably shown in the results of any election as we've seen & will continue to see.
Who are "the general public" you speak of

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by tiger76 » Fri May 08, 2020 3:59 pm

These recent polls suggest climate change is becoming a big issue.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/cli ... 18251.html

https://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/media/3925 ... hange.pdf

Unsurprisingly it's the younger age groups who fear the effects,whereas the older demographic are less concerned.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by TheFamilyCat » Fri May 08, 2020 4:57 pm

Now I'm torn. Who do I believe about people's attitude to climate change? A poll of actual people or Jakubclaret, who spends his days making a fool of himself on a football messageboard?

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by tiger76 » Fri May 08, 2020 5:26 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 4:57 pm
Now I'm torn. Who do I believe about people's attitude to climate change? A poll of actual people or Jakubclaret, who spends his days making a fool of himself on a football messageboard?
I'll be honest,if you'd have asked me 10 years ago,if climate change was one of the most pressing issues for me,i'd have said no,but like many people my opinion has changed,due to the evidence that's undeniable,i think most of the public do care about the climate,it's just that many aren't certain how to best help slow or reverse the damage that's been inflicted.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri May 08, 2020 5:39 pm

People (some) don't care about climate change if we did we wouldn't pollute the planet so much but some of us do, it's easier to drive a 4×4 for a mile than motivation & set the legs in motion. I've got more respect for people who act & exercise & don't cause pollution to the planet rather than bleating about it on a football MB. The answers are easy to solve the issue it's whether we have the will & desire to make change.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Nonayforever » Fri May 08, 2020 7:50 pm

Does Keir Starmer drive a 4 X 4 ?
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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri May 08, 2020 10:22 pm

Nonayforever wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 7:50 pm
Does Keir Starmer drive a 4 X 4 ?
No idea, but 1 thing I do know for certain big powerful cars doing short unnecessary journeys is 1 of the many things contributing towards climate change impacting negatively, that was just an example, I could have used seperating & disposing of waste incorrectly also causing negative environmental problems. Until we start collectively caring about the planet, you are p1ssing into the wind expecting positive change.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by AndrewJB » Sat May 09, 2020 1:26 am

Somethingfishy wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:56 pm
So the Labour party and Corbyn are blameless? All lies by the press caused their downfall? We have had this conversation a few times Andrew. This sheer pigheadedness to not hold the hand up, admit mistakes in policy, see how unelectable they are and blame the right wing press for all Labours ills is tiresome. I only hope for the Labour partys sake that central office don't think your way or you can be assured of many more years in opposition wilderness and letting the tories run the country.
I also find it quite patronising to the population of the country that you believe this swayed them so completely not withstanding you clearly think it is/was all lies and spin. Corbyn got some harsh treatment but he was hardly the right call to be Labour leader in the first place let alone be a PM. He brought a lot of the problems on himself.
I'm one of those Labour need to win back. Time will tell. It will take a lot but you never know. Starmer is a good start but there is so much wrong with Labour at the moment it really is just that..a start.
Your post actually exemplifies what I mean about the press dominating the narrative. If we start with the idea that he was "hardly the right call to be Labour leader in the first place." He was elected by the membership, overwhelmingly, on the first ballot. How can that not be the right call? Should Labour have cancelled the vote and held another, and another? Actually they tried to do that, and he won again. He won because he put forward a platform of making the party more responsive to ideas from members - more democratic - and said he'd put people before profit, ethics at the heart of government, and strive to make Britain a more caring society. Hardly radical, but it was a shift toward the core values of a party that represents the working class. Those within Labour who were horrified by him becoming leader and then used their positions to work against him were showing contempt for the members, and for democracy. They should have resigned from their posts and criticised him as much as they liked.

The media: You think I'm making it up? Read this:

http://www.lse.ac.uk/media-and-communic ... emy-corbyn

Labour's policy mistakes? I liked both manifestos. What did you not like? Maybe it was something you didn't like, but it would benefit other people, in which case why the need for an apology?

"Unelectable" - by rights Johnson should be unelectable. Train wreck of a personal life. track record of failure. Sacked from jobs due to lying. Racism, misogyny, homophobia, contempt for fellow citizens - all this in his own written words. If Johnson can reach high office, then by rights nobody is unelectable.

My pigheadedness - I'm not going to change my principles just because the country voted in an idiot. I watched the country re-elect an austerity-wrecker government in 2015, and didn't suddenly think austerity was good. Of course I'll hold my hands up and say Labour ran a crap campaign last year (I've said it before), and Corbyn made plenty of mistakes in how he acted as leader, but the political positions I think were good, and I like the values.

And as for the press, of course they form opinion. It's not insulting people to point this out. Consider Johnson. This week we had the Sun's Hagiographic interview in which he's made out to be the superman who can save us from this virus (rather than asking him questions about why his government has screwed things up), and if instead the press banged on about what a cad he is for leaving his wife as she began cancer treatment, reminded everyone about his failures as mayor of London, looked forensically into how his comments added further years to the sentence of a UK citizen, wife and mother, in Iran, repeatedly brought up his racist articles as evidence he's unfit to lead us (these are all true things as well, as compared to "Czech spy" etc levelled at Corbyn), and I could go on for a while about Johnson, but just with those few things to hammer him in the press every day - his political career would be over. This is the press we have. One that doesn't hold leaders to account, and that attacks the politicians who threaten the ability of the owners of the press to get richer and richer.
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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat May 09, 2020 10:03 am

[quote=AndrewJB post_id=1270946 time=1588983982
If we start with the idea that he was "hardly the right call to be Labour leader in the first place." He was elected by the membership, overwhelmingly, Etc, etc
[/quote]

Boris Johnson and the Tories - elected by the voters of the country, overwhelmingly, massive majority etc etc - how can that not be the right call? Why isn’t it the time for us all to accept the wishes of the electorate, put aside our partisan positions, stop looking for political advantage and accept that perhaps our personal view isn’t what the majority want and bide our time until the next election?

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by CleggHall » Sat May 09, 2020 11:56 am

Andrew - agree wholeheartedly with your stance above.
Labour got trounced in the General Election and deservedly so. Up here in Newcastle on the doorstep, Corbyn's name alone was toxic, the Party's stance on Brexit was incomprehensible and cock-eyed and magic money tree manifesto promises were not believed. Since Brown's 2010 defeat we have had 10 wasted years and, given the SNP's domination north of the border, Starmer now has a mountain to climb.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by basil6345789 » Sat May 09, 2020 4:50 pm

This will leg him up:
Interesting info for all those talking us down about The China Virus in The UK:

"yesterday there was a comparison in the Independent it reported ‘Belgium has the worst per-capita death rate in the world with 647 deaths per million people. The figures for Spain, Italy, France and the UK are 519, 458, 362 and 319 respectively.’ Based on this we’re actually best performing of those compared, but with a higher population. Which surprised me".

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat May 09, 2020 7:48 pm

basil6345789 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 4:50 pm
This will leg him up:
Interesting info for all those talking us down about The China Virus in The UK:

"yesterday there was a comparison in the Independent it reported ‘Belgium has the worst per-capita death rate in the world with 647 deaths per million people. The figures for Spain, Italy, France and the UK are 519, 458, 362 and 319 respectively.’ Based on this we’re actually best performing of those compared, but with a higher population. Which surprised me".
I'm not engaging in the argument as to "who's doing best / worst", but you really can't read very much into these statistics because every country counts them in a different way. Some only include hospital deaths, some include care homes as well- but not those take place at home. Some don't put down covid as cause of death if there was a pre-existing condition, whereas others do the opposite. Some only include those people who've actually been tested positive etc etc.
So whilst obviously it's interesting to see how other countries are doing, and whether their curve is flattening etc. etc., making actual comparisons is somewhat pointless.
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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Nonayforever » Sat May 09, 2020 8:22 pm

Does the Labour party count the number of deaths differently to the Conservatives ?

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by keith1879 » Wed May 13, 2020 2:42 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:01 am
Agreed. Why politicians can’t a) apologise when they get things wrong, or b) praise when the opposition party get something right, is beyond me.
Whilst I agree with the point you make I have to say that you can daily see examples of politicians failing to do (a) (and also failing to answer questions posed by ordinary citizens) at 5pm Monday to Friday.

I suspect that you may be considering a response of "Corbyn/Starmer would be worse". It is my genuine opinion that nobody could possibly be more evasive than Boris' cabinet.....indeed I feel that Champion the Wonder Horse would be a more effective cabinet minister.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by keith1879 » Wed May 13, 2020 2:51 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 7:48 pm
I'm not engaging in the argument as to "who's doing best / worst", but you really can't read very much into these statistics because every country counts them in a different way. Some only include hospital deaths, some include care homes as well- but not those take place at home. Some don't put down covid as cause of death if there was a pre-existing condition, whereas others do the opposite. Some only include those people who've actually been tested positive etc etc.
So whilst obviously it's interesting to see how other countries are doing, and whether their curve is flattening etc. etc., making actual comparisons is somewhat pointless.
Some interesting stuff here. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... -countries

It's really not pointless to do some comparisons. How else do we try to understand best practice from elsewhere? One specific point is that Belgium has consistently reported deaths where Covid is suspected even though no positive test has been recorded. This probably contributes to their seemingly higher death rate. One specific warning....the UK excess mortality total looks horrific but you need to read it in the context of the period of reporting. Some of the other countries have shorter reporting periods.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by aggi » Wed May 13, 2020 3:02 pm

Looks like Starmer is starting to get some momentum (and Johnson is losing some)

The latest YouGov survey shows the leader of the opposition has a net approval rating of +23, while the prime minister has seen his net approval fall to +22.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 11611.html

A lot more Don't Knows for Starmer so it wouldn't necessarily translate into votes but it's interesting to see.

Also notable that Johnson was pulled up for "misremembering" something in Parliament by Starmer. I suspect we'll see a lot more of this which, given that Johnson is famously ill-prepared and not always wedded to the truth, is going to make things a bit more difficult for him.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 13, 2020 3:15 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 3:02 pm
Looks like Starmer is starting to get some momentum (and Johnson is losing some)

The latest YouGov survey shows the leader of the opposition has a net approval rating of +23, while the prime minister has seen his net approval fall to +22.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 11611.html

A lot more Don't Knows for Starmer so it wouldn't necessarily translate into votes but it's interesting to see.

Also notable that Johnson was pulled up for "misremembering" something in Parliament by Starmer. I suspect we'll see a lot more of this which, given that Johnson is famously ill-prepared and not always wedded to the truth, is going to make things a bit more difficult for him.
Starmer is definitely winning the PMQ duels,now whether this will eventually feed through to the public,is another :?: but Boris Johnson won't get away with waffling and half-truths against someone of Starmer's acumen.And if he doesn't quickly learn this he'll face more put-down's like today's.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed May 13, 2020 3:42 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 3:02 pm
Looks like Starmer is starting to get some momentum (and Johnson is losing some)

The latest YouGov survey shows the leader of the opposition has a net approval rating of +23, while the prime minister has seen his net approval fall to +22.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 11611.html

A lot more Don't Knows for Starmer so it wouldn't necessarily translate into votes but it's interesting to see.

Also notable that Johnson was pulled up for "misremembering" something in Parliament by Starmer. I suspect we'll see a lot more of this which, given that Johnson is famously ill-prepared and not always wedded to the truth, is going to make things a bit more difficult for him.
Yeah but he's Mr No Charisma

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by NottsClaret » Wed May 13, 2020 3:55 pm

As above, not too many watch the PMQs.. but it's getting embarrassing for Johnson and you can be sure his own party are seeing it. He'll be looking for a way out of it, he's not one for hard work and detail. You can't bluster and waffle your way out of it when Starmer's opposite you handing out the cross examination.

Just a shame we wasted those years with Comrade Corbyn. Imagine him there today in his ill-fitting suit, asking about how the people of Palestine are to be helped through the pandemic and then reading a question from a constituent about when their library will reopen.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by dermotdermot » Wed May 13, 2020 6:08 pm

Exactly. All those selfishly wasted years, leaving us with a government that is just so ill prepared and unsuitable for the current crisis.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Blackrod » Wed May 13, 2020 6:42 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:26 am
Your post actually exemplifies what I mean about the press dominating the narrative. If we start with the idea that he was "hardly the right call to be Labour leader in the first place." He was elected by the membership, overwhelmingly, on the first ballot. How can that not be the right call? Should Labour have cancelled the vote and held another, and another? Actually they tried to do that, and he won again. He won because he put forward a platform of making the party more responsive to ideas from members - more democratic - and said he'd put people before profit, ethics at the heart of government, and strive to make Britain a more caring society. Hardly radical, but it was a shift toward the core values of a party that represents the working class. Those within Labour who were horrified by him becoming leader and then used their positions to work against him were showing contempt for the members, and for democracy. They should have resigned from their posts and criticised him as much as they liked.

The media: You think I'm making it up? Read this:

http://www.lse.ac.uk/media-and-communic ... emy-corbyn

Labour's policy mistakes? I liked both manifestos. What did you not like? Maybe it was something you didn't like, but it would benefit other people, in which case why the need for an apology?

"Unelectable" - by rights Johnson should be unelectable. Train wreck of a personal life. track record of failure. Sacked from jobs due to lying. Racism, misogyny, homophobia, contempt for fellow citizens - all this in his own written words. If Johnson can reach high office, then by rights nobody is unelectable.

My pigheadedness - I'm not going to change my principles just because the country voted in an idiot. I watched the country re-elect an austerity-wrecker government in 2015, and didn't suddenly think austerity was good. Of course I'll hold my hands up and say Labour ran a crap campaign last year (I've said it before), and Corbyn made plenty of mistakes in how he acted as leader, but the political positions I think were good, and I like the values.

And as for the press, of course they form opinion. It's not insulting people to point this out. Consider Johnson. This week we had the Sun's Hagiographic interview in which he's made out to be the superman who can save us from this virus (rather than asking him questions about why his government has screwed things up), and if instead the press banged on about what a cad he is for leaving his wife as she began cancer treatment, reminded everyone about his failures as mayor of London, looked forensically into how his comments added further years to the sentence of a UK citizen, wife and mother, in Iran, repeatedly brought up his racist articles as evidence he's unfit to lead us (these are all true things as well, as compared to "Czech spy" etc levelled at Corbyn), and I could go on for a while about Johnson, but just with those few things to hammer him in the press every day - his political career would be over. This is the press we have. One that doesn't hold leaders to account, and that attacks the politicians who threaten the ability of the owners of the press to get richer and richer.
Deary me.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Blackrod » Wed May 13, 2020 6:46 pm

Not a big fan of ‘human rights’ lawyers who often don’t help the cause of genuine human rights cases.

Having said that and as a right winger the government need challenging. Starmer comes across as credible, articulate and he only challenges when necessary. He is genuine and comes from a working class background. The Corbyn regime objected to everything but didn’t have a clear path of their own. They were not credible and voters could see this. If I was a Labour voter I would be quite pleased with Starmer so far.
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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by IanMcL » Wed May 13, 2020 6:50 pm

PMQs a lawyers heaven.

Concise, articulate, beautifully constructed questions, complete with trap door.

PM steps onto the trap door like magicians stooge.

Sir Keir takes the answer, precis' it and gives a clear better alternative course of action or highlights the inadequacy of the answer.

Pulls lever and PM drops through!

Repeat x5.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by NewClaret » Wed May 13, 2020 7:06 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 6:50 pm
PMQs a lawyers heaven.

Concise, articulate, beautifully constructed questions, complete with trap door.

PM steps onto the trap door like magicians stooge.

Sir Keir takes the answer, precis' it and gives a clear better alternative course of action or highlights the inadequacy of the answer.

Pulls lever and PM drops through!

Repeat x5.
Not watched either of them, but can imagine this to be true. He’ll certainly be a significantly more able opponent than Corbyn.

I will be watching for him giving an alternative solution. I have absolutely no time for the opposition offering criticism in hindsight. I don’t buy the whole “it’s our job to hold them to account“ bs. They are highly paid elected politicians and should contribute to building a better country by coming to the commons with solutions, not just problems.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 13, 2020 7:28 pm

Blackrod wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 6:46 pm
Not a big fan of ‘human rights’ lawyers who often don’t help the cause of genuine human rights cases.

Having said that and as a right winger the government need challenging. Starmer comes across as credible, articulate and he only challenges when necessary. He is genuine and comes from a working class background. The Corbyn regime objected to everything but didn’t have a clear path of their own. They were not credible and voters could see this. If I was a Labour voter I would be quite pleased with Starmer so far.
He's shown up Boris more in a few weeks,than Corbyn managed in months,all Corbyn ever engaged in was protest politics,opposition for opposition's sake,Starmer has proved a capable performer as a leader of the opposition,the bigger question is can he show he'd be an effective future PM.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by Spiral » Wed May 13, 2020 7:32 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:06 pm
I have absolutely no time for the opposition offering criticism in hindsight.
Hilarious. David Cameron owes his entire prime ministerial career to the fact Labour was in power at the time of the financial crisis. He had no hesitation in making hay from that crisis and its aftermath. "There's no money left". Yes, that's rather the point of a liquidity crisis, you mongs.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by mdd2 » Wed May 13, 2020 8:47 pm

Well if you thought life was tough after the crash of 2008 just wait until this lot is over with a National Debt well over £2trillion and I think it was around £800 billion certainly as a proportion of GDP it was <40 % in 2008 and before all this we were >75%
There are going to be some hefty cuts or tax rises or both in the years to come
Certainly back to taxing the pennies on your eyes according to the great JL

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by aggi » Wed May 13, 2020 9:12 pm

It will likely become easier for Johnson when the House of Commons is full again. The normal school playground atmosphere will probably benefit Johnson more than Starmer.

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Re: Keir Starmer the future

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 13, 2020 9:28 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:12 pm
It will likely become easier for Johnson when the House of Commons is full again. The normal school playground atmosphere will probably benefit Johnson more than Starmer.
Explains why JRM wants the MP'S to return ASAP https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... irus.html

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