Keir Starmer the future

[android]

Nope you are still racists.

I will say it again, it is staggering the lengths that you will go to to try and assuage your guilt and embarrassment for voting for this Prime Minister. I am happy to accept his article was in part satirical but I thought we had long passed these pathetic and infantile racist comments. So I guess you would be more than happy to watch Bernard Manning say "why do blacks smell, so the blind can hate them to". No doubt you would be rolling in the aisles. The Falstafian buffoon has no empathy for the common man or woman and is unfit to govern. But what the hell he a laugh. Your excuses are pathetic.

That's just nonsense Corky. You don't know me at all. If you did you would be in for a surprise!

[android]

Morning Android.

Before I made my original posting I tried to find the full article on line without success. I managed to find this piece which includes an extended quote https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 17ef059528 and I looked at a number of other sources (mostly supportive of Johnson) so I understand that it was essentially a satirical attack on Tony Blair.

It would have been possible to have written the sentence I quoted as follows.
" It is said that the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving enthusiastic children; and one can imagine that Blair, twice victor abroad but enmired at home, is similarly seduced by foreign politeness.”

This would have been an attack on Blair ....just as strong an attack. Why did BJ choose to use a word which is acknowledged to be a racist term? Comic effect? This was not some late-night set in a half-full comedy club at the Edinburgh fringe.....it was a featured column in a national newspaper that considers itsself to be one of the quality papers.

I do not suggest that Boris is a racist in the sense that he dislikes people from (for example) Africa but he casually used a racially unacceptable word and also made reference to a racial stereotype (watermelon smiles) in an earlier paragraph.

He used a racial term and a racial stereotype in a column where neither was required. That tells us something about him.

(Edited to clarify that I had researched before I made my earlier posting).

Context (as Andrew once said when it suited his cause) matters Keith. Do you know of Boris displaying any prejudice?

So are you with Corky? I don't believe that Boris Johnson is racist. Am I allowed to have that opinion in your book or do you go along with Corky's view of the world: I think this is a bad person and anyone who does not agree with me is also a bad person.

[android]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 88476.html

You don’t believe it, but it’s true. What have hijab wearers done to deserve such abuse? Johnson was mocking a small group of women for the sake of getting laughs from intolerant people.
That’s the behaviour of a bully. And it’s the same with all the other things. Not racist toward black people? Who actually knows? But he’s happy to use racist language and to demean them to get laughs from readers who are somewhat if not wholly racist themselves. Does he despise working class people, as his articles suggest? Let’s be generous and say hi doesn’t - but he still wrote those words - so at the least he’s a bully playing to a baying crowd.

What do you make of the fact that 8 days after Boris's letterbox article Islamophobic attacks PLUMMETED by 100% to zero?

[keith1879]

Context (as Andrew once said when it suited his cause) matters Keith. Do you know of Boris displaying any prejudice?

So are you with Corky? I don't believe that Boris Johnson is racist. Am I allowed to have that opinion in your book or do you go along with Corky's view of the world: I think this is a bad person and anyone who does not agree with me is also a bad person.

No I don't agree with Corky. I do not think that Boris is a racist - the content of his cabinet suggests that he is not. But he wrote something that could clearly be construed as racist .... in fact the term "Piccaninny" as applied to large numbers of African people can only be seen as racist and the context does not excuse it. I suspect that he wrote it casually with no real thought as to what offence he might or might not give. I expect better from a columnist in a so-called quality paper.

I can understand the meaning of his article but I would not wish to explain it to one of my son's carers - nearly all of whom come from Africa.

[android]

Thanks Keith. It's worth noting that sensitivities have changed even in 18 years. It seems unlikely that Boris or almost anyone else now would use those terms even in a piece of satire. And I think it is important to note the context was not just the subject matter of the satire but that he was actually writing from the viewpoint of her imperial majesty the Queen (no idea why he chose to have a pop at the Queen) and the "big white chief" Blair observing their subjects.

I can understand and agree with your view that it was ill judged even in that time and that context. But certainly nowhere near justifying labelling him racist. As you say, his actions suggest otherwise.

[tiger76]

Opinium: Best Prime Minister?

Boris Johnson: 42%
Sir Keir Starmer: 28%

Which is actually Johnson down 2 and Starmer up 5 since their last poll.

Starmer's net approval rating is up by six to plus 24 - his best so far with Opinium. Approval for the government's handling of the coronavirus crisis has also gone (narrowly) negative for the first time since it took off in March.

Warning signs for Johnson & CO,they'd better heed them.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

What's so bad about this Whatsapp group then that means some wouldn't be able to cope with it?

Some people don't have a sense of humour, or it's a bit straighter than those of me and my mates, from what I've seen people take offence too on here.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Opinium: Best Prime Minister?

Boris Johnson: 42%
Sir Keir Starmer: 28%

Which is actually Johnson down 2 and Starmer up 5 since their last poll.

Starmer's net approval rating is up by six to plus 24 - his best so far with Opinium. Approval for the government's handling of the coronavirus crisis has also gone (narrowly) negative for the first time since it took off in March.

Warning signs for Johnson & CO,they'd better heed them.

Best PM?
Bloke who's doing it vs a bloke who's never done it?

[BurningBeard]

And yet the gap is closing at present.

Also questionable to what extent Johnson is 'doing it'.

[evensteadiereddie]

Johnson will be gone once this fiasco has settled. God knows who they'll put in his place.

[joey13]

Best PM?
Bloke who's doing it vs a bloke who's never done it?

Bloke who’s doing it ,what condemning old folk to death

[Rileybobs]

For what it’s worth, I don’t think that someone who makes a racist comment is necessarily a racist. I doubt Johnson is a racist, but the ill-judged comments that he’s made in the past show that he’s got a lack of awareness, or maybe it’s just ignorance. In either case it’s not a quality that i
I’d be looking for in a leader.

[tiger76]

New Keir Starmer interview he wisely is trying to move on from brexit.https://uk.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-sir ... 0978.html

[evensteadiereddie]

He'll nail Johnson on what should be his safe ground, too.

[tiger76]

Detailed analysis of Labour and Starmer here https://uk.news.yahoo.com/labour-now-st ... 0756.html

[aggi]

It will likely become easier for Johnson when the House of Commons is full again. The normal school playground atmosphere will probably benefit Johnson more than Starmer.

Looks like Ress Mogg has managed to get the MPs back into Parliament with a somewhat bizarre option for voting



Unsurprisingly a lot of the MPs who are designated vulnerable (or members of their household are) aren't keen on this.

[AndrewJB]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... on-service

This has been on the cards for a while now. Hope perhaps for rail, utilities and others?

[Damo]

Nope you are still racists.

I will say it again, it is staggering the lengths that you will go to to try and assuage your guilt and embarrassment for voting for this Prime Minister. I am happy to accept his article was in part satirical but I thought we had long passed these pathetic and infantile racist comments. So I guess you would be more than happy to watch Bernard Manning say "why do blacks smell, so the blind can hate them to". No doubt you would be rolling in the aisles. The Falstafian buffoon has no empathy for the common man or woman and is unfit to govern. But what the hell he a laugh. Your excuses are pathetic.

And people say satire is dead.
Nice work Godfrey Elfwick

[Damo]

Looks like Ress Mogg has managed to get the MPs back into Parliament with a somewhat bizarre option for voting



Unsurprisingly a lot of the MPs who are designated vulnerable (or members of their household are) aren't keen on this.

Not happy to turn up for work, but quite able to congregate on masse at protests in packed out parks

[aggi]

Not happy to turn up for work, but quite able to congregate on masse at protests in packed out parks

I din't realise there were loads of MPs protesting, I only saw one in the news. Who else was doing it?

[martin_p]

Not happy to turn up for work, but quite able to congregate on masse at protests in packed out parks

If they can effectively work from home the government advice is not to turn up for work. This is more about getting Tory MPs into the house to support Boris Johnson than them doing their job.

[tiger76]

If they can effectively work from home the government advice is not to turn up for work. This is more about getting Tory MPs into the house to support Boris Johnson than them doing their job.

Exactly! the Tories are rattled by Starmer schooling the PM at PMQ'S week after week, if they can turn it back into a circus atmosphere, Johnson's failings won't be exposed as easily.

If MP'S can work from home, and with the technology readily available, i see no apparent reason why they can't, then they shouldn't be commuting all the way to London.

[AndrewJB]

Everything is political with this government.

[Corky]

And people say satire is dead.
Nice work Godfrey Elfwick

Much like they say racism doesn't exist.

[AlargeClaret]

It’s quite staggering that the left still rant on almost foaming about Boris’s “ racist” journo articles . The “ letterbox “ piece was in SUPPORT of being able to wear the burka if they wish . As for “Piccininnies “ and “ watermelon smiles “ (refering to commonwealth countries
and those god awful ceremonies they used to put on for the Queen ) no one could read that without realizing it was satire not racist not even a tiny tiny, the context is deliberately? seemingly lost to suit an agenda .

[nil_desperandum]

. As for “Piccininnies “ and “ watermelon smiles “ (refering to commonwealth countries
and those god awful ceremonies they used to put on for the Queen ) no one could read that without realizing it was satire not racist not even a tiny tiny, the context is deliberately? seemingly lost to suit an agenda .

Ah yes, sorry, I'd forgotten about that one. So long as it's satirical or intended to be comedic, it doesn't matter if it's offensive, sends out the wrong message, or can be construed as racist.

[AndrewJB]

It’s quite staggering that the left still rant on almost foaming about Boris’s “ racist” journo articles . The “ letterbox “ piece was in SUPPORT of being able to wear the burka if they wish . As for “Piccininnies “ and “ watermelon smiles “ (refering to commonwealth countries
and those god awful ceremonies they used to put on for the Queen ) no one could read that without realizing it was satire not racist not even a tiny tiny, the context is deliberately? seemingly lost to suit an agenda .

You forgot “tank topped bumboys” and his various reflections on what wasters working class men and women are. Or was Johnson expressing his support for those people by insulting them, as he did with women who wear burkas?

If Johnson isn’t racist he’s just an unfunny bully.

[AndrewJB]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... n-ban-ends

All of this was avoidable, but happening because the government wanted to keep the economy moving for the benefit of those at the top.

[tiger76]

Impressive numbers for Starmer in the new polls,why on earth did Labour not get him in earlierhttps://uk.yahoo.com/news/poll-quarter- ... 0237.html

[AndrewJB]

Impressive numbers for Starmer in the new polls,why on earth did Labour not get him in earlierhttps://uk.yahoo.com/news/poll-quarter- ... 0237.html

Probably due to this: https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/k ... emy-corbyn

Oborne is a respected journalist and not a member of Momentum.

[aggi]

Probably due to this: https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/k ... emy-corbyn

Oborne is a respected journalist and not a member of Momentum.

I don't disagree with any of this. However, regardless of that, Corbyn wasn't a savvy political operator.

He was certainly screwed by the media but I suspect part of that was his unwillingness to play the game. He didn't have a team that could work the media to his advantage. Love him or loathe him Blair knew how to do that.

On top of that, he wasn't incisive or aggressive enough. He had plenty of PMQs where there were open goals but he'd just mention them in passing, he wouldn't go in for the kill.

For better or worse, he was probably too nice to be successful. He was certainly dealt a bad hand but I don't think he was blameless.

[tiger76]

Probably due to this: https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/k ... emy-corbyn

Oborne is a respected journalist and not a member of Momentum.

It raises some good points, the reality is if Labour want power, then they'll have to win over the media, it might not seem fair, but that's how it is.

Tony Blair realised this early in his leadership, hence why he moved the party to the centre, and wooed the Murdoch press.

Corbyn's biggest problem from day one, was his own parliamentary party never wanted or accepted him, and this never really changed during his 4 year tenure.

The other hurdle for Labour, is on both occasions they've moved leftwards, they've been soundly rejected by the British people.

The simple truth is that a socialist party won't ever carry enough support to win a majority in the UK.

[CleggHall]

Oborne is very fair to Corbyn who, on this account, never stood a chance given his mauling by the press. However in some respects ( Salisbury?) he was his own worst enemy and his gut reactions and instincts ( Venezuela) were out of tune with most British people. Could not think on his feet at PMQs and land a follow-up, killer punch. He faced a useless PM in May and should have done better, could not find a position on Brexit and his choice of shadow cabinet was not helpful. History will fail to understand him, as did the British electorate.

[AndrewJB]

I don't disagree with any of this. However, regardless of that, Corbyn wasn't a savvy political operator.

He was certainly screwed by the media but I suspect part of that was his unwillingness to play the game. He didn't have a team that could work the media to his advantage. Love him or loathe him Blair knew how to do that.

On top of that, he wasn't incisive or aggressive enough. He had plenty of PMQs where there were open goals but he'd just mention them in passing, he wouldn't go in for the kill.

For better or worse, he was probably too nice to be successful. He was certainly dealt a bad hand but I don't think he was blameless.

I agree.

[AndrewJB]

It raises some good points, the reality is if Labour want power, then they'll have to win over the media, it might not seem fair, but that's how it is.

Tony Blair realised this early in his leadership, hence why he moved the party to the centre, and wooed the Murdoch press.

Corbyn's biggest problem from day one, was his own parliamentary party never wanted or accepted him, and this never really changed during his 4 year tenure.

The other hurdle for Labour, is on both occasions they've moved leftwards, they've been soundly rejected by the British people.

The simple truth is that a socialist party won't ever carry enough support to win a majority in the UK.

I don’t think what you describe (in terms of wooing the rightwing press) is even possible, but as well will have the negative effect of members leaving. Labour will never have the big donors, or press support, but an advantage it should pursue is having a large and active membership. That is it’s natural advantage.

[taio]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... n-ban-ends

All of this was avoidable, but happening because the government wanted to keep the economy moving for the benefit of those at the top.

Eviction ban has been extended by a further two months. Good news.

[AndrewJB]

Eviction ban has been extended by a further two months. Good news.

It is good news, for now. However this is simply kicking the can down the road.

[taio]

It is good news, for now. However this is simply kicking the can down the road.

Right to kick the can down the road too.

[AndrewJB]

Right to kick the can down the road too.

At some point the issue will have to be dealt with, and the sooner the better, because otherwise landlords, mortgage providers, and tenants all face uncertainty about the future.

[taio]

At some point the issue will have to be dealt with, and the sooner the better, because otherwise landlords, mortgage providers, and tenants all face uncertainty about the future.

Yep obviously. But it makes sense to extend right now.

[RingoMcCartney]

11 January: “I never turn on my staff and you should never turn on your staff.”

24 May: “If I were Prime Minister, I’d have sacked Cummings.”

31st May it emerges Labour MP Rosie Duffield breaks lockdown rules

Starmer - silent

3rd June Barry Gardiner breaks lockdown rules

Starmer - Silent

[AndrewJB]

11 January: “I never turn on my staff and you should never turn on your staff.”

24 May: “If I were Prime Minister, I’d have sacked Cummings.”

31st May it emerges Labour MP Rosie Duffield breaks lockdown rules

Starmer - silent

3rd June Barry Gardiner breaks lockdown rules

Starmer - Silent

Duffield resigned. Gardiner wasn’t in the shadow cabinet (so couldn’t be fired). Did Cummings resign?

[RingoMcCartney]

Duffield resigned. Gardiner wasn’t in the shadow cabinet (so couldn’t be fired). Did Cummings resign?

No , but hypocrit Starmer said he would have sacked him from his job.

What's stopping him sacking Duffield and Gardiner from their jobs as MPs ?

[AndrewJB]

No , but hypocrit Starmer said he would have sacked him from his job.

What's stopping him sacking Duffield and Gardiner from their jobs as MPs ?

He can’t do that. He could remove the whip, but no other party has done that.

Most people resign, unless they’re Islington metropolitan bubble dwellers like Cummings, for whom the rules only apply to working class people.

[aggi]

No , but hypocrit Starmer said he would have sacked him from his job.

What's stopping him sacking Duffield and Gardiner from their jobs as MPs ?

The law is probably the main impediment.

[fatboy47]

No , but hypocrit Starmer said he would have sacked him from his job.

What's stopping him sacking Duffield and Gardiner from their jobs as MPs ?

That post suggests youre actually even dimmer than I'd thought Ringo.

[ksrclaret]

What's stopping him sacking Duffield and Gardiner from their jobs as MPs ?

Oh dear. You've shot yourself in both feet with that comment.

[TheFamilyCat]

Give it a week and he'll have convinced himself that not only was he right but that you actually agree with him.

[RingoMcCartney]

I guess my mopping up operation on the other thread has riled the gaggle up.

It was always going to happen !

However, if the price of being able to highlight Starmers hypocrisy is a few sardines thrown out the back of the trawler, I'm more than able the afford it!

Enjoy !!

[ksrclaret]

Give it a week and he'll have convinced himself that not only was he right but that you actually agree with him.

On a par with the time he said the mods only removed his racist comment "to keep the peace".