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[boatshed bill]

The government are relying on people's common sense, which in truth could be the downfall.
.

Which is exactly why i am sticking to the original advice regarding social distancing.
I am lucky that I have this option, i do understand how difficult it must be for people in less fortunate circumstances.
the relaxing of restrictions could lead to a very serious second "spike".

[FactualFrank]

The government are relying on people's common sense, which in truth could be the downfall.

Agreed. As a nation we unfortunately need to be told what to do with authority. Leave it up to the people, and at least (at least) 20% won't have a clue.

[Devils_Advocate]

This clear ?

https://youtu.be/Ktl2KtJTlAU

Worth adding this to it as the first 60 secs picks up from where your video stops and hammers home the point even further

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP4FTYAgcIk

If its only stupid people with no common sense who need everything doing for them in life who felt Sunday's messaging was confusing then it looks like we have a majority of idiots running our country.

That would to be fair explain why this Tory govt is so useless but doesn't explain why these or so clever people on here voted for such idiots

[TVC15]

Worth adding this to it as the first 60 secs picks up from where your video stops and hammers home the point even further

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP4FTYAgcIk

If its only stupid people with no common sense who need everything doing for them in life who felt Sunday's messaging was confusing then it looks like we have a majority of idiots running our country.

That would to be fair explain why this Tory govt is so useless but doesn't explain why these or so clever people on here voted for such idiots

Yes saw that - I think my link has a break for more adverts and then carries on with the rest.

Anyway more importantly the arrogance of Bridgen is incredible.
Funny how it mirrors a lot of the sh-ite you see on here - it’s all perfectly clear, work it out for yourself etc - usually by the same posters who thought they could travel 45 minutes to a beauty spot for their exercise under the original rules or thought they could go out and exercise more than once a day because they were socially distancing and not putting anyone at risk.

And totally agree these are the calibre of people the majority of people voted for.

[martin_p]

Worth adding this to it as the first 60 secs picks up from where your video stops and hammers home the point even further

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP4FTYAgcIk

If its only stupid people with no common sense who need everything doing for them in life who felt Sunday's messaging was confusing then it looks like we have a majority of idiots running our country.

That would to be fair explain why this Tory govt is so useless but doesn't explain why these or so clever people on here voted for such idiots

This is a strange feeling, I’ve watched something with Piers Morgan in it and actually felt myself rooting for him rather than just thinking he was a complete kn0b. Warning - footage still contains a complete kn0b.

[Grumps]

Yes saw that - I think my link has a break for more adverts and then carries on with the rest.

Anyway more importantly the arrogance of Bridgen is incredible.
Funny how it mirrors a lot of the sh-ite you see on here - it’s all perfectly clear, work it out for yourself etc - usually by the same posters who thought they could travel 45 minutes to a beauty spot for their exercise under the original rules or thought they could go out and exercise more than once a day because they were socially distancing and not putting anyone at risk.

And totally agree these are the calibre of people the majority of people voted for.

All well and good, apart from the fact that the police produced a document that said it was reasonable to exercise more than once a day.

[TVC15]

All well and good, apart from the fact that the police produced a document that said it was reasonable to exercise more than once a day.

Already done this to death and said that was your interpretation of the document. The government website was very clear that the only justification for exercising more than once a day was if a person needed to do this for health / medical reasons.
Let’s imagine that for one minute you were correct why would they be announcing now you can exercise more than once a day under the revised lockdown measures ?

[Grumps]

Already done this to death and said that was your interpretation of the document. The government website was very clear that the only justification for exercising more than once a day was if a person needed to do this for health / medical reasons.
Let’s imagine that for one minute you were correct why would they be announcing now you can exercise more than once a day under the revised lockdown measures ?

Somebody very kindly copied the document on here somewhere, it was very clear, as was agreed by those who read it.

[Burnley Ace]

So now (the usual suspects) have done a 180 and are hailing Piers “Lord Haw Haw” Morgan who is effectively saying sack all the scientists and get a new lot in that agree with him!!

For the last few years, when he’s castigated their new messiah, he’s been the epitome of the right wing boot boy! Now, with his little shouty face act, he’s “holding people to account”

[TVC15]

Somebody very kindly copied the document on here somewhere, it was very clear, as was agreed by those who read it.

Now you know that is a fib - and you have posted lots about how you don’t like other posters fibbing about you.

Didn’t you say that you are used to dealing with documents like this so know what it meant ?

I told you what was factually the government guidelines which were not open to any interpretation.

You still haven’t answered the most important question though - if you and these other people you say agreed with you were correct why would they announce being able to exercise more than once a day as a new measure ?

[SalouClaret]

So now (the usual suspects) have done a 180 and are hailing Piers “Lord Haw Haw” Morgan who is effectively saying sack all the scientists and get a new lot in that agree with him!!

For the last few years, when he’s castigated their new messiah, he’s been the epitome of the right wing boot boy! Now, with his little shouty face act, he’s “holding people to account”

And now (the usual suspects) who used to love Piers are p!ssed off. Swings and roundabouts.

[Burnley Ace]

And now (the usual suspects) who used to love Piers are p!ssed off. Swings and roundabouts.

Who has ever loved Piers Morgan? From his insider dealing phone hacking days he’s been an oily chancer.

[Burnley Ace]

Now you know that is a fib - and you have posted lots about how you don’t like other posters fibbing about you.

Didn’t you say that you are used to dealing with documents like this so know what it meant ?

I told you what was factually the government guidelines which were not open to any interpretation.

You still haven’t answered the most important question though - if you and these other people you say agreed with you were correct why would they announce being able to exercise more than once a day as a new measure ?

The police guidance or interpretation of what constituted reasonable exercise was posted on the “route to Malham” thread (one you probably contributed to). That may be the document he is referring to.

[SalouClaret]

Who has ever loved Piers Morgan? From his insider dealing phone hacking days he’s been an oily chancer.

Thousands of people on Twitter loved him because of his past rantings, now thousands of new followers love him for his new rantings.

I agree he's always been a ****

[Tall Paul]

So now (the usual suspects) have done a 180 and are hailing Piers “Lord Haw Haw” Morgan who is effectively saying sack all the scientists and get a new lot in that agree with him!!

For the last few years, when he’s castigated their new messiah, he’s been the epitome of the right wing boot boy! Now, with his little shouty face act, he’s “holding people to account”

It's almost as if they're more interested in what's being said than who is saying it.

[TVC15]

The police guidance or interpretation of what constituted reasonable exercise was posted on the “route to Malham” thread (one you probably contributed to). That may be the document he is referring to.

I’m not doubting the document - I remember it being posted and also remember it being open to interpretation. He said that he was used to reading these types of documents so understood what it meant. Whereas I was quoting the actual government guidelines at this point which were extremely clear and open to no interpretation at all in terms of exercise more than once a day was only for people with health conditions which meant they needed to exercise more than once a day.
I also referenced my daughter who is in the police and that her police force had been very clear that you were not allowed to exercise more than once a day.

But to say it again - why would the government announce being able to exercise more than once a day as a new lockdown measure this week ?

[Grumps]

Now you know that is a fib - and you have posted lots about how you don’t like other posters fibbing about you.

Didn’t you say that you are used to dealing with documents like this so know what it meant ?

I told you what was factually the government guidelines which were not open to any interpretation.

You still haven’t answered the most important question though - if you and these other people you say agreed with you were correct why would they announce being able to exercise more than once a day as a new measure ?

Someone's said its on the Malham thread, definitely not a fib.
The police interpreted the guidelines in a way they could police it. That differs from gov website
Bearing in mind the police are responsible, for policing the guidelines, and issuing the fines, if they say its fine to go out more than once, then it's OK.

[Devils_Advocate]

So now (the usual suspects) have done a 180 and are hailing Piers “Lord Haw Haw” Morgan who is effectively saying sack all the scientists and get a new lot in that agree with him!!

For the last few years, when he’s castigated their new messiah, he’s been the epitome of the right wing boot boy! Now, with his little shouty face act, he’s “holding people to account”

My post in no way praises Piers Morgan who is a knob. It could have been anyone interviewing the MP and the whole point was to counter the Tory apologists on here saying that the message is clear for anyone with a bit of common sense as it showed not even the MPs behind this plan fully understood it

If you'd like to comment on why an MP cannot understand his own govt plans when the messaging is so clear then I am all ears

[jackmiggins]

Someone's said its on the Malham thread, definitely not a fib.
The police interpreted the guidelines in a way they could police it. That differs from gov website
Bearing in mind the police are responsible, for policing the guidelines, and issuing the fines, if they say its fine to go out more than once, then it's OK.

Are you insinuating that you would be happy for the Police to determine legislation?

[TVC15]

Someone's said its on the Malham thread, definitely not a fib.
The police interpreted the guidelines in a way they could police it. That differs from gov website
Bearing in mind the police are responsible, for policing the guidelines, and issuing the fines, if they say its fine to go out more than once, then it's OK.

What I am saying is a fib is your version - it was open to interpretation and not clear at all.
Was it not you who said you were used to reading these kind of documents so you knew what it meant ? Genuine question as I can’t remember who said what...apologies if it was not you. I thought it was you who posted the document - it was a while ago and I’ve read a lot since then.
Implementation of government guidelines by the police of lockdown measures is something very different to what the guidelines say - and as you know can be down to resources, individual forces etc. Most forces have had to “pick their fights” in terms of enforcing lockdown guidelines - that does not change the guideline it just means they think some things are riskier to the public than others and they have nowhere near the resources to deal with it.

Still not answered the question as to why going exercising more than once was announced a new measure.

[Grumps]

Are you insinuating that you would be happy for the Police to determine legislation?

You promised to leave me alone, please do so.

[Swizzlestick]

lol

[Grumps]

What I am saying is a fib is your version - it was open to interpretation and not clear at all.
Was it not you who said you were used to reading these kind of documents so you knew what it meant ? Genuine question as I can’t remember who said what...apologies if it was not you. I thought it was you who posted the document - it was a while ago and I’ve read a lot since then.
Implementation of government guidelines by the police of lockdown measures is something very different to what the guidelines say - and as you know can be down to resources, individual forces etc. Most forces have had to “pick their fights” in terms of enforcing lockdown guidelines - that does not change the guideline it just means they think some things are riskier to the public than others and they have nowhere near the resources to deal with it.

Still not answered the question as to why going exercising more than once was announced a new measure.

It wasn't open to interpretation, it was clear, the police thought it was reasonable to go out more than once, printed for all to see.

It was announced as a new measure, because the government changed their advice, I've never said they hadn't, just that those responsible for enforcing those guidelines chose how best to police it.

Just in case its open to interpretation... I've never said the government advice had changed...

[jackmiggins]

You promised to leave me alone, please do so.

Just a simple query.

[TVC15]

It wasn't open to interpretation, it was clear, the police thought it was reasonable to go out more than once, printed for all to see.

It was announced as a new measure, because the government changed their advice, I've never said they hadn't, just that those responsible for enforcing those guidelines chose how best to police it.

Just in case its open to interpretation... I've never said the government advice had changed...

Now we are into lying territory - post the document where it says that. Post any document which says the police can override gov legislation.

The above makes no sense
You said that it was announced as a new measure because the government changed advice and then you say in the same post you never said the gov advice had changed !!

[Devils_Advocate]

I like how Grumps has deflected back to an old irrelevant argument rather than give his opinion why a Tory MP did not manage to fully understand Johnsons crystal clear message last Sunday

This is the kind of attitude to debate that brings this thread back down to childish bickering and its no shock that whenever you see some futile point scoring inane exchanges more often than not Grumps is involved

[aggi]

Already done this to death and said that was your interpretation of the document. The government website was very clear that the only justification for exercising more than once a day was if a person needed to do this for health / medical reasons.
Let’s imagine that for one minute you were correct why would they be announcing now you can exercise more than once a day under the revised lockdown measures ?

The actual legislation https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/202 ... 350_en.pdf had no limits on the amount of times you could go out for exercise.

[martin_p]

Who has ever loved Piers Morgan? From his insider dealing phone hacking days he’s been an oily chancer.

Yep, and even an oily chancer can spot the shambles that the government are making of their new advice.

[martin_p]

The actual legislation https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/202 ... 350_en.pdf had no limits on the amount of times you could go out for exercise.

It’s not in the legislation but TVC15 is correct in saying that once was the advice and that advice has now changed. I suspect the police guidance reflects the fact that exercising once would be impossible to enforce anyway as it implies knowledge of what a person has been doing all day.

[Grumps]

Now we are into lying territory - post the document where it says that. Post any document which says the police can override gov legislation.

The above makes no sense
You said that it was announced as a new measure because the government changed advice and then you say in the same post you never said the gov advice had changed !!

Getting boring and stupid now

Legislation says you must stop at a red light
Police can let you through if they see the need
A simple example, iam sure your daughter has done that, and more.

Iam off for a walk now

[Grumps]

It’s not in the legislation but TVC15 is correct in saying that once was the advice and that advice has now changed. I suspect the police guidance reflects the fact that exercising once would be impossible to enforce anyway as it implies knowledge of what a person has been doing all day.

That's almost certainly why they decided what they did.

[CombatClaret]

Untitled-1.jpg (181.75 KiB) Viewed 1923 times

This government is utter clown shoes.

[TVC15]

It’s not in the legislation but TVC15 is correct in saying that once was the advice and that advice has now changed. I suspect the police guidance reflects the fact that exercising once would be impossible to enforce anyway as it implies knowledge of what a person has been doing all day.

I posted the gov guidance at the time which said exercise more than once a day was only allowed based on physical or mental health reasons. That advice and presumably the gov website has now changed.
It’s the government website that people are reading not statute. If it’s in statute then I’m guessing it’s so they have enough flexibility so that they don’t need to change the law every time and just update the government website instead.

Not even sure why this is a debate when the government very clear announced as a new lockdown measure that people in England can now exercise more than once a day. Why would they do this if you could already do it ?

[jackmiggins]

Best we decide to follow Police ‘advice’ on all matters then? The only time I EVER see the Police around here (North Yorks) is when they are sat on a bridge behind a speed camera. Incidentally, before anyone thinks I have that particular axe to grind, I don’t have any speeding convictions

[randomclaret2]

Surprising to see some folks hanging on every word of Piers Morgan and Phillip Schofield now...

[TVC15]

It’s not in the legislation but TVC15 is correct in saying that once was the advice and that advice has now changed. I suspect the police guidance reflects the fact that exercising once would be impossible to enforce anyway as it implies knowledge of what a person has been doing all day.

I think it’s probably more the practical consideration around resources - or lack of them. The police have had nowhere near enough resource to manage things like stopping gatherings - most of it has been “drive past” type monitoring at best.
The chances of the same police person seeing the same person out exercising more than once in the same day is virtually zero - because that police person would not be going out checking more than once a day for a start.
Which is why the guidance was more about doing the right thing for the individuals rather than anything to do with being caught by the police.
People who were trying to justifying going out to exercise more than once would often use the social distancing argument
...but that wasn’t the sole purpose behind much of the original lockdown guidelines. The other main reason was to minimise the risk of burdening the NHS if something happened to the individual etc.

[martin_p]

Surprising to see some folks hanging on every word of Piers Morgan and Phillip Schofield now...

Even more surprising that the act of agreeing with someone is now seen as ‘hanging on every word’. Piers Morgan is wrong about lots of things, but on the topic covered in the YouTube link above he was spot on. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day!

[Grumps]

Now we are into lying territory - post the document where it says that. Post any document which says the police can override gov legislation.

The above makes no sense
You said that it was announced as a new measure because the government changed advice and then you say in the same post you never said the gov advice had changed !!

Hopefully this link works, and you can apologise for calling me a liar anytime you wish. Page 2 is what you need to read, far left column

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... Xf1DzKgYnT

[aggi]

Surprising to see some folks hanging on every word of Piers Morgan and Phillip Schofield now...

It's weird that we've got to a position where the people holding the government to account are light entertainment breakfast TV hosts.

[TVC15]

Hopefully this link works, and you can apologise for calling me a liar anytime you wish. Page 2 is what you need to read, far left column

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... Xf1DzKgYnT

Why would I apologise ?
It says :
“Exercising more than once per day - the only relevant consideration is whether repeated exercise on the same day can be considered a ‘reasonable excuse’ for leaving home”

The exercise in itself is not a “reasonable excuse” as far as I understand this. This would seem to logically link into the advice on the gov website that you can exercise more than once if you have health issues that warrant this.

[Grumps]

Why would I apologise ?
It says :
“Exercising more than once per day - the only relevant consideration is whether repeated exercise on the same day can be considered a ‘reasonable excuse’ for leaving home”

The exercise in itself is not a “reasonable excuse” as far as I understand this. This would seem to logically link into the advice on the gov website that you can exercise more than once if you have health issues that warrant this.

It's in the column headed... Likely to be reasonable...
Then headed... Exercising more than once a day.

The consideration of reasonable excuse for leaving the house is covered by the fact the catagory is in the reasonable column.... Not the column which lists what isn't allowed

[TVC15]

It's in the column headed... Likely to be reasonable...
Then headed... Exercising more than once a day.

The consideration of reasonable excuse for leaving the house is covered by the fact the catagory is in the reasonable column.... Not the column which lists what isn't allowed

I know the column heading.
But to me it’s clearly (or probably unclearly) saying that leaving the house for exercise is not itself a reasonable excuse.
It’s in the reasonable column purely because it’s reasonable to exercise more than once a day outside of your house if you have a reasonable excuse. By definition that excuse cannot be wanting to exercise more than once or why would they caveat it ?

[Grumps]

I know the column heading.
But to me it’s clearly (or probably unclearly) saying that leaving the house for exercise is not itself a reasonable excuse.
It’s in the reasonable column purely because it’s reasonable to exercise more than once a day outside of your house if you have a reasonable excuse. By definition that excuse cannot be wanting to exercise more than once or why would they caveat it ?

Sorry, after 40 years of reading such documents I assumed, wrongly, that others could read them.
Hopefully your daughter is better at it.
I'll leave you to your interpretation and me to mine, it doesn't matter now anyway

[TVC15]

Sorry, after 40 years of reading such documents I assumed, wrongly, that others could read them.
Hopefully your daughter is better at it.
I'll leave you to your interpretation and me to mine, it doesn't matter now anyway

You are getting pretty pathetic now. I was trying to be polite and give you some kind of benefit of the doubt.

Your arrogance and patronising tone is embarrassing. The reference to my daughter is too. I already said previously what her police force said on the issue - not her as an individual but again you think you know better than them because you say you have been doing this stuff for 40 years....f-uck knows how you have held down a job if that is the quality of your interpretation.

So when the police say you need a reasonable excuse to leave the house for more than the one exercise a day the government said you were allowed what in all those 40 years of experience of “reading” do you think is a “reasonable excuse” ?.....give me a few examples.

It’s incredible how the government announces you can now exercise more than once a day now - what was the point. All they needed to do was get someone like you to tell them that was the case all along.

[Grumps]

You are getting pretty pathetic now. I was trying to be polite and give you some kind of benefit of the doubt.

So when the police say you need a reasonable excuse to leave the house for more than the one exercise a day the government said you were allowed what in all those 40 years of experience of “reading” do you think is a “reasonable excuse” ?.....give me a few examples.

It’s incredible how the government announces you can now exercise more than once a day now - what was the point. All they needed to do was get someone like you to tell them that was the case all along.

It doesn't say you need a reasonable excuse to leave the house
It says... is there a reasonable excuse for exercising more than once....
Such as... Elderly, so split into two sessions. Perhaps someone's busy, so does half in the morning and some later. It was explained at the time, on tv by a police chief, but I don't have a link so you won't believe it but he saidThose are reasonable excuses for doing it twice.

If it was not allowed it would be in the other column.

[TVC15]

It says :
“Exercising more than once per day - the only relevant consideration is whether repeated exercise on the same day can be considered a ‘reasonable excuse’ for leaving home”

To be honest I can see now why you would be one of the people where it would be considered as a reasonable excuse....

[Grumps]

It says :
“Exercising more than once per day - the only relevant consideration is whether repeated exercise on the same day can be considered a ‘reasonable excuse’ for leaving home”

To be honest I can see now why you would be one of the people where it would be considered as a reasonable excuse....

Classy

[TVC15]

Classy

Cheers - that 40 years of “reading” has served you well.

[KateR]

I love it reading from the posters who provide complex rationales for why we shouldn't leave the EU, why trading between nations is complex but they can interpret the data regard supply chain and cross border issues between the EU & the UK of the future is not workable. The same ones who can tell everyone regarding the Tory Gov. failure dating back 50 years and why Labour and socialist system work better plus why Blair was a wrinkle in the wonderful line of Labour policies. They can tell you how Income Tax and VAT work and should be changed.

Yet the same people can not interpret what stay alert/stay safe means and need a 50 page operators manual that they then still can't understand and to back up there lack of understanding introduce Piers Morgan as the spokesman such that it must be right, even though he is a ranter and never been right before.

Thank you for the entertainment this morning, love catching up on the minutia of things like why can I stand in supermarket between 2 people, it really is incredulous at times the detail of nit picking that goes on here, especially my favorite that was "well what happens if it's raining when I am talking to my family on the drive", priceless

[Grumps]

Cheers - that 40 years of “reading” has served you well.

Good luck to your daughter, she'll need it, very difficult job