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[Paul Waine]

The announcement had been trailed as being on the Sunday for about a week! So by your logic Monday was always the intended return to work date.

Hi martin, yes, it's also my understanding that "Boris will speak to the nation" had been announced sometime the week before. It's all a bit "kreminology-like" trying to work out how all the pieces "fit together." As I said, fast moving events, need to always have the most up to date stats/advice and then Scotland trying to get ahead of UK (Wales, I believe, was later). Maybe even it took longer to get agreement on "return to work" plans in key areas - acknowledging that not everyone has agreed everything.

No worries. Things are starting to move forward. Everyone has got the "direction of travel" or "exit plan" that the media were crying out for since Easter (or thereabouts).

Of course, it's all "conditional" and "provisional." Can we all "do the right things" so that we "control the virus...." I think we can.

[martin_p]

Hi martin, yes, it's also my understanding that "Boris will speak to the nation" had been announced sometime the week before. It's all a bit "kreminology-like" trying to work out how all the pieces "fit together." As I said, fast moving events, need to always have the most up to date stats/advice and then Scotland trying to get ahead of UK (Wales, I believe, was later). Maybe even it took longer to get agreement on "return to work" plans in key areas - acknowledging that not everyone has agreed everything.

No worries. Things are starting to move forward. Everyone has got the "direction of travel" or "exit plan" that the media were crying out for since Easter (or thereabouts).

Of course, it's all "conditional" and "provisional." Can we all "do the right things" so that we "control the virus...." I think we can.

Judging by some of the videos of the rush hour on public transport this morning, no we can’t!

[Grumps]

Surely they can stay the night in their caravan if they use some common sense?

Clearly not, if you read the post you were replying to

[Devils_Advocate]

Surely they can stay the night in their caravan if they use some common sense?

Not if we are going by the rules and guidelines set out by the govt

[Grumps]

All these people going to work today, and firms opening, why weren't they doing it last week?
Nothings been changed as to what can and cannot open has it?

[evensteadiereddie]

The economy...........time to limit the damage.

[TheFamilyCat]

Not if we are going by the rules and guidelines set out by the govt

Sorry, it's hard to be sarcastic when typing.

[Devils_Advocate]

Sorry, it's hard to be sarcastic when typing.

Haha fair enough and I hadn't had my breaky by then so wasn't on my 'A' game

[tiger76]

Judging by some of the videos of the rush hour on public transport this morning, no we can’t!

No it would appear your correct,and hardly any commuters wearing face coverings,absolutely prepare for a 2nd spike in a week or two.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52645366

[Tall Paul]

All these people going to work today, and firms opening, why weren't they doing it last week?
Nothings been changed as to what can and cannot open has it?

Maybe the Prime Minister saying, on national television, that people who carn't (sic) work from home should be actively encouraged to return to work this week has something to do with it

[tiger76]

Maybe the Prime Minister saying, on national television, that people who carn't (sic) work from home should be actively encouraged to return to work this week has something to do with it

Do you think,yes i suspect that would have been a rather important change in the UK government's approach.

What on earth did they think was going to happen on the London transport system,social distancing is impossible,and the network's only carrying roughly half the capacity.come next Monday it'll be even worse.

[aggi]

Do you think,yes i suspect that would have been a rather important change in the UK government's approach.

What on earth did they think was going to happen on the London transport system,social distancing is impossible,and the network's only carrying roughly half the capacity.come next Monday it'll be even worse.

It's way under half capacity I would suspect. It looks more like 20% or so (and figures from Citymapper suggest maybe lower than that).

[Burnley Ace]

Judging by some of the videos of the rush hour on public transport this morning, no we can’t!

That’s every morning not just the last couple of days.

[Grumps]

Maybe the Prime Minister saying, on national television, that people who carn't (sic) work from home should be actively encouraged to return to work this week has something to do with it

Bet it annoys all the firms who have been letting the government pay the wages

[claret2018]

We are in the middle of a pandemic. Assuming the government can't afford to keep running the furlough scheme until a vaccine is found, they need to either:

a) get people back to work and accept a second/third/fourth spike and many more deaths
b) radically change the way society is structured and come up with some sort of UBI, at least temporarily so that everyone can afford to survive.

Conservatives aren't likely to opt for b (the clue is in their name) so we are going to have to accept that we will have deaths probably into the hundreds of thousands

[RingoMcCartney]

It was a very obvious Ringo trap that even I’m not thick enough to fall into. It was totally irrelevant but I’m sure he would have claimed it as a virtual victory rather than debating the actual point. Classic tactics. Weird how difficult some find it to admit they’re wrong. It’s a weak characteristic.

Until now, we’ve not been allowed to meet family members or friends from other households.

Kate even thought we could visit a family member at their house.

There was no "trap." I simply pointed out you that were wrong.

Your unequivocal, black n white statement above is clear. You had not considered that certain under 18s had always been able to meet family members from and in other households .


Only after my input did you introduce the "extenuating circumstances". Until then, you had been black and white, and wrong.

Glad that, between us , we managed to get the facts right.

Like I said previously, I just wish people could be more honest, and just admit they hate Boris Johnson and nothing he does will ever be good enough.

[evensteadiereddie]

Sadly, it works the other way, too, with plenty of posters on here not being able to admit loving Johnson and nothing he does will ever be less than good enough...........

[Rileybobs]

There was no "trap." I simply pointed out you that were wrong.

Your unequivocal, black n white statement above is clear. You had not considered that certain under 18s had always been able to meet family members from and in other households .


Only after my input did you introduce the "extenuating circumstances". Until then, you had been black and white, and wrong.

Glad that, between us , we managed to get the facts right.

Like I said previously, I just wish people could be more honest, and just admit they hate Boris Johnson and nothing he does will ever be good enough.

Well done, Ringo. Well done.

[android]

We are in the middle of a pandemic. Assuming the government can't afford to keep running the furlough scheme until a vaccine is found, they need to either:

a) get people back to work and accept a second/third/fourth spike and many more deaths
b) radically change the way society is structured and come up with some sort of UBI, at least temporarily so that everyone can afford to survive.

Conservatives aren't likely to opt for b (the clue is in their name) so we are going to have to accept that we will have deaths probably into the hundreds of thousands

But why would only Conservatives care about the deaths caused by both the lockdown (stress, depression, missed treatments for cancer, heart disease the list goes on) and the expected biggest economic hit for centuries (vast unemployment, greater poverty the list goes on leading to mental and physical health problems)? I get the point about wealth redistribution but it's naive to think there is an instant cure all, such as UBI, just waiting to be plucked from the shelf. And what about the first point - for example, remember a few months ago mental health was a big issue and now all of sudden it doesn't seem to matter at all?

I get the antipathy to Boris from anyone who was a strong remainer or has that dislike/hatred for all things Tory, so criticisms of the virus response are inevitable and some of it will eventually stick, as it will with all European governments, as no-one is going to get it all right. But when are people going to wake up to the fact that the extraordinary measures taken are costing and are going to cost a lot of lives - yes, possibly even hundreds of thousands. It's an extremely difficult balancing act and I wouldn't like to have to make the decisions on the scant information we have at present.

[martin_p]

But why would only Conservatives care about the deaths caused by both the lockdown (stress, depression, missed treatments for cancer, heart disease the list goes on) and the expected biggest economic hit for centuries (vast unemployment, greater poverty the list goes on leading to mental and physical health problems)? I get the point about wealth redistribution but it's naive to think there is an instant cure all, such as UBI, just waiting to be plucked from the shelf. And what about the first point - for example, remember a few months ago mental health was a big issue and now all of sudden it doesn't seem to matter at all?

I get the antipathy to Boris from anyone who was a strong remainer or has that dislike/hatred for all things Tory, so criticisms of the virus response are inevitable and some of it will eventually stick, as it will with all European governments, as no-one is going to get it all right. But when are people going to wake up to the fact that the extraordinary measures taken are costing and are going to cost a lot of lives - yes, possibly even hundreds of thousands. It's an extremely difficult balancing act and I wouldn't like to have to make the decisions on the scant information we have at present.

But if the new guidance leads to another spike of cases we’ll be on full lockdown again and the damage to the economy, etc will be even greater. Johnson said soon after he came back to work that he didn’t want to waste the lockdown and have a second peak. Government actions over the last few days risk exactly that. Another three weeks of lockdown could’ve seen the ‘R’ number down below 0.5 which would be a much better base for starting the relax things than the (potentially) 0.9 we’re at now.

[android]

The key words there are "if" and "could". We don't know.

[boatshed bill]

627 deaths confirmed yesterday.
Amongst all the argument these stats seem to be forgotten. It's foolhardy at the very least to ease restrictions.

[Grumps]

627 deaths confirmed yesterday.
Amongst all the argument these stats seem to be forgotten. It's foolhardy at the very least to ease restrictions.

A lot less today

[boatshed bill]

A lot less today

I'm glad to hear it. But every one is someone's family member. More than 32,000 to date!

[FactualFrank]

I was chatting to a friend yesterday who seems absolutely convinced that we'll have a second wave and we'll be back to square one.

However, he is one for his conspiracy theories, big time, so I do take what he says regarding this with a slight pinch of salt.

[kentonclaret]

Sadly, if media reports are to be believed that buses are packed and that around only 10% of passengers on both buses and the tube are wearing a mask or face covering, then a second wave and a further period of lockdown is inevitable.

[TVC15]

As Inchy said on a post this week it will be interesting to see if we get a spike of new cases 7 to 10 days after last weeks VE celebrations.
If what took place last Friday in many parts of Burnley is anything to go by for the rest of the country then I`d say that is very likely.

[Grumps]

I'm glad to hear it. But every one is someone's family member. More than 32,000 to date!

I don't disagree one little bit. Just bringing some balance

[tiger76]

This is worrying,a 14 year-old boy has passed away with a covid related illness.https://uk.yahoo.com/news/kawasaki-dise ... 7625.html

[FactualFrank]

This is worrying,a 14 year-old boy has passed away with a covid related illness.https://uk.yahoo.com/news/kawasaki-dise ... 7625.html

From what I've read, this was first noticed the other week and has been shown to be rare.

[tiger76]

From what I've read, this was first noticed the other week and has been shown to be rare.

Thankfully it is rare,but still a worry for those with young children or teenagers.

[joey13]

I wouldn't go that far,but he's not inspiring confidence,and if he's not doing the job he was elected to do,it's reasonable to expect criticism.

I’d probably go further ,today sort of proves the point

[tiger76]

I’d probably go further ,today sort of proves the point

Fair enough,but you probably wouldn't vote Conservative anyway,if Johnson is losing the trust of traditional Tories,and some of those who switched in December,then he and the government has got a problem,the polling in the next week or two could be revealing.

[nil_desperandum]

That's got to be Ringo's hollowest "victory". I'm a bit disappointed that he didn't go for a more esoteric example though. Being able to visit your parents if they run a B&B and they're hosting a blood doning session for homeless people and you are homeless and donating blood. That kind of thing.

Actually, there's another scenario now that Ringo has so far not picked up on.
You can now put your house on the market and family members could book appointments as prospective buyers to view your property. That appears to be within the new guidelines. They might even need several viewings before making a decision.

[Jakubclaret]

Bet it annoys all the firms who have been letting the government pay the wages

That's a peculiar perspective, firms want to be up & running to make money, the workers are paid but not for nothing, even though the government are paying for the businesses which are shut the owners won't be happy as there won't be making a bean, there would prefer business as normal.

[aggi]

Actually, there's another scenario now that Ringo has so far not picked up on.
You can now put your house on the market and family members could book appointments as prospective buyers to view your property. That appears to be within the new guidelines. They might even need several viewings before making a decision.

That one's a bit obvious. How about the child is a vicar and the parents can meet them at a funeral of a friend who has no family who can attend the funeral.

[Burnley Ace]

Actually, there's another scenario now that Ringo has so far not picked up on.
You can now put your house on the market and family members could book appointments as prospective buyers to view your property. That appears to be within the new guidelines. They might even need several viewings before making a decision.

Or you could just use your common sense, meet in the park and keep your distance.

[ksrclaret]

Or you could just use your common sense, meet in the park and keep your distance.

What if it's windy and I'm struggling to hear what they're saying? I might accidentally, instinctively inch forwards thus breaking the 2m rule.

[Grumps]

That's a peculiar perspective, firms want to be up & running to make money, the workers are paid but not for nothing, even though the government are paying for the businesses which are shut the owners won't be happy as there won't be making a bean, there would prefer business as normal.

If that's the case, why haven't they been open for the past 7 weeks? There's nothing been stopping them.

[Burnley Ace]

What if it's windy and I'm struggling to hear what they're saying? I might accidentally, instinctively inch forwards thus breaking the 2m rule.

Use your phone and make sure you take a portable charger (an extra battery) with you. As you seem incapable of doing anything without instructions I suggest you also take a coat, an umbrella and remember to go to the toilet before you leave the house.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Use your phone and make sure you take a portable charger (an extra battery) with you. As you seem incapable of doing anything without instructions I suggest you also take a coat, an umbrella and remember to go to the toilet before you leave the house.

Bit irresponsible of you there, what if he has to cross a road

[Rileybobs]

Or you could just use your common sense, meet in the park and keep your distance.

So you're advocating breaking the rules?

[Grumps]

So you're advocating breaking the rules?

Not if only 2 turn up...

[nil_desperandum]

Or you could just use your common sense, meet in the park and keep your distance.

I think that you missed the emoji at the end of my post. Like aggi, I wasn't being serious.
(You'd have to read back a couple of pages to understand the context)

[nil_desperandum]

That one's a bit obvious. How about the child is a vicar and the parents can meet them at a funeral of a friend who has no family who can attend the funeral.

Yes, but Ringo's important point and "victory" was specifically about going in and out of a family member's home. This doesn't allow for this.

[FactualFrank]

Coronavirus antibody test a 'positive development'

A test to find out whether people have been infected with coronavirus in the past has been approved by health officials in England.

Public Health England said the antibody test, developed by Swiss pharmaceutical company Roche, was a "very positive development".

Until now, officials have said such tests are not reliable enough.

The government previously spent a reported £16m buying antibody tests which later proved to be ineffective.

Sources told the BBC the Roche test was the first one to offer serious potential.

Experts at the government's Porton Down facility evaluated the Roche test last week, Public Health England said, and found it to be "highly specific".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52656808

[Jakubclaret]

If that's the case, why haven't they been open for the past 7 weeks? There's nothing been stopping them.

The government instructed all non essential businesses to close it wasn't optional, I'm not quite sure where you've been recently!

[ksrclaret]

Use your phone and make sure you take a portable charger (an extra battery) with you. As you seem incapable of doing anything without instructions I suggest you also take a coat, an umbrella and remember to go to the toilet before you leave the house.

Oh okay thank you I get it now. It’s so lucky you post on here or else I’d have been stuck. Thanks again.

[ksrclaret]

Bit irresponsible of you there, what if he has to cross a road

I’ll just gurn and hope someone stops to help me

something like that.

[Jakubclaret]

https://youtu.be/sfrThV6DJu4
To refresh the rules, apologies if already seen or it's previously posted.